Ripple: A Distributed Exchange for Bitcoin

[Sukrim]

No, it can NOT be increased past current limits without consensus from the Ripple network. Currently this is only OpenCoin, in the future you will be able to run your own Ripple server and enforce the current limits of XRP just like anyone running bitcoind enforces the 21 million BTC limit.

BTC24 was/is on the same "professionalism level" as bitcoinica...

Ripple gateways would be e-money dealers which are already existing, have known regulations and requirements concerning audits, full reserves etc. Bitcoin exchanges don't.

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[zemario]

No, it can NOT be increased past current limits without consensus from the Ripple network. Currently this is only OpenCoin, in the future you will be able to run your own Ripple server and enforce the current limits of XRP just like anyone running bitcoind enforces the 21 million BTC limit.

It's kind of irrelevant what 'will be' when in fact it is already pretty much the opposite. So, you admit that ATM opencoin reserves the right to print money for itself for the time being, but supposedly debunk my point by saying that in the future that will be controlled by network consensus.

BTC24 was/is on the same "professionalism level" as bitcoinica...

And the same kind of monkey business will be away from your all decentralized and open network, because...?

Ripple gateways would be e-money dealers which are already existing, have known regulations and requirements concerning audits, full reserves etc. Bitcoin exchanges don't.

What's preventing all the bitcoin exchanges from jumping in? Who is going to stop them from doing so? More importantly, the possibility that they can be submited to an aproval process is the problem. I thought we were trying to fix the problem of needing to trust many people.
My bitcoins are just there, they're just a piece of information that only I have access they are protected from theft by the laws of physics, not because I trust somebody.

[JoelKatz]

It's kind of irrelevant what 'will be' when in fact it is already pretty much the opposite. So, you admit that ATM opencoin reserves the right to print money for itself for the time being, but supposedly debunk my point by saying that in the future that will be controlled by network consensus.

Don't be ridiculous. If I admit I'm capable of hitting my son in the head with a hammer, does that mean I've "reserved the right" to hit my son in the head with a hammer?

[QuantPlus]

isn't ripple a hobo wine too?

They should have called it Nightrain.

[Terpie]

It's kind of irrelevant what 'will be' when in fact it is already pretty much the opposite. So, you admit that ATM opencoin reserves the right to print money for itself for the time being, but supposedly debunk my point by saying that in the future that will be controlled by network consensus.

Don't be ridiculous. If I admit I'm capable of hitting my son in the head with a hammer, does that mean I've "reserved the right" to hit my son in the head with a hammer?

The analogy is more akin to being capable of "draining your bank account". In which case, I much prefer you neither have the capability nor "reserve the right".

[zemario]

It's kind of irrelevant what 'will be' when in fact it is already pretty much the opposite. So, you admit that ATM opencoin reserves the right to print money for itself for the time being, but supposedly debunk my point by saying that in the future that will be controlled by network consensus.

Don't be ridiculous. If I admit I'm capable of hitting my son in the head with a hammer, does that mean I've "reserved the right" to hit my son in the head with a hammer?

You omitted "for myself" from your analogy, making it non valid.
But yes, that is the problem... parents  do have responsibility and authority over their children and if they don't do it properly consequences are tragic. This happens everyday. It is possible for a parent to hit his son with a hammer in the head, that is my point, yes.

You cannot reduce the education of a child to a mathematical problem like bitcoins did to money, so unfortunately there will still children being victims of their parents violence.
Contrary to the hype, you cannot reduce transactions to a mathematical problem either. You, the people putting ripple up are aware of this. What I dislike is the way ripple is announced as if it would solve this problem. This problem has no solution, if you engage in a transaction, you have to either have to trust someone or someone has to trust you.

[Sukrim]

They won't increase XRP count because they don't need to currently, they don't want to hurt trust/reputation they earned and because I say so...

And the same kind of monkey business will be away from your all decentralized and open network, because...?

See my next line that you quoted.

Ripple gateways would be e-money dealers which are already existing, have known regulations and requirements concerning audits, full reserves etc. Bitcoin exchanges don't.

What's preventing all the bitcoin exchanges from jumping in? Who is going to stop them from doing so? More importantly, the possibility that they can be submited to an aproval process is the problem. I thought we were trying to fix the problem of needing to trust many people.
My bitcoins are just there, they're just a piece of information that only I have access they are protected from theft by the laws of physics, not because I trust somebody.

MtGox is dealing with it's crappy trade engine, approving people, withdrawal limits and whatnot - I guess they have other priorities. Bitstamp already uses and supports Ripple, others probably will follow. Ripple is also rather a competitor to BitInstant, Dwolla etc. by the way.

I guess Bitcoin exchanges, especially considering them dropping like domino pieces after MtGox went down last week, currently just have other priorities than jumping on board early on a beta project that might even cause them some trouble in their business and that needs to be evaluated + secured well. Also I don't know what's happening in the back already...

I submitted a statement to bitbet.us, so maybe you can bet soonish that there actually will be more than 100 billion XRP issued before the source code for a Ripple server is published.

[datafish]

Ripple gateways would be e-money dealers which are already existing, have known regulations and requirements concerning audits, full reserves etc. Bitcoin exchanges don't.

Why do you say this?  I thought anyone who runs a ripple server can act as a gateway, with varying levels of success in interfacing with the traditional financial system.

[TTBit]

A distributed example - bitstamp is down currently. The bitstamp IOUs are still trading on ripple.

[gollum]

A distributed example - bitstamp is down currently. The bitstamp IOUs are still trading on ripple.

Cool, thats what bitcoin also should do: trade IOUs.

[Sukrim]

Ripple gateways would be e-money dealers which are already existing, have known regulations and requirements concerning audits, full reserves etc. Bitcoin exchanges don't.

Why do you say this?  I thought anyone who runs a ripple server can act as a gateway, with varying levels of success in interfacing with the traditional financial system.

Becoming an entity that is creating funds that can be converted to and from real-world currencies is something where a LOT of scams can/will/did happen. Beyond simple vouchers/gift cards there's a lot of regulations on that. check your local bank regulation website (e.g. FinCen) for more info.

[mmeijeri]

Becoming an entity that is creating funds that can be converted to and from real-world currencies is something where a LOT of scams can/will/did happen. Beyond simple vouchers/gift cards there's a lot of regulations on that. check your local bank regulation website (e.g. FinCen) for more info.

Agreed, but extending trust to your friends would be much less problematic. I don't see anything problematic there.

[TTBit]

A distributed example - bitstamp is down currently. The bitstamp IOUs are still trading on ripple.

Cool, thats what bitcoin also should do: trade IOUs.

Not sure I understand the tone of your response, but when you trade "bitcoins" and "USD" on mtgox, you are trading mtgox IOUs, not actual coins or USD. When you buy 1 btc on mtgox, nothing hits the blockchain until you redeem (on their terms of course). All coins and USD stay in-house, just their pointers move.

[Sukrim]

Becoming an entity that is creating funds that can be converted to and from real-world currencies is something where a LOT of scams can/will/did happen. Beyond simple vouchers/gift cards there's a lot of regulations on that. check your local bank regulation website (e.g. FinCen) for more info.

Agreed, but extending trust to your friends would be much less problematic. I don't see anything problematic there.

Yes, as long as it stays very small, it might (IANAL!) not be an issue. It might be too much hassle though to issue new IOUs for every book that you lend to somebody, each hour of work you help your parents or for that 10 bucks a friend borrows from you to pay for a pizza...

To exchange USD to BTC on Ripple however means that you need highly trusted and accepted USD and BTC IOUs respectively (e.g. from MtGox or Bitstamp, not from a single user on this board). This most likely will be provided by a regulated entity.

[Traktion]

Having an open credit clearing system, rather than one run by governments, is both a useful and an interesting concept.

An ideal monetary system should facilitate both credit clearing and settlement. The former is what gives a currency 'elasticity', while the latter allows people to choose their exposure to it.

If one party wants to exchange goods with another for IOUs, then great. Trust is extremely liquid and allows easy trade. If both parties would rather not rely on trust, then they can both exchange goods instead. Where is the problem?

I'm not sure why there is so much hostility here, tbh. Ripple and Bitcoin are two separate things. You don't have to abandon one, in order to find the other useful.

[jaime]

Meh, the problem of ripple is the same of bitcoin, very few people use it. Yes, if everyone use ripple, then it would be good as an exchange for bitcoin. But well, then if everyone use bitcoin, we would not even need an exchange.

+1. What do we need an exchange for ? We will just trade in bitcoins and forget about the old money.
The only problem I see is that currently half of the bitcoin economy is held by less than 2 million early adopters. This has to spread a lot more.

[LeTanque]

Seems to me they are riding one of the carts on the "decentralized" train uninvited.

In regards to uninvited, they do have Jed McCaleb on the team...

[mmeijeri]

I'm not sure why there is so much hostility here, tbh. Ripple and Bitcoin are two separate things. You don't have to abandon one, in order to find the other useful.

Exactly. In fact, I think Ripple is going to be enormously helpful for the wider adoption of Bitcoin.

[TimJBenham]

There doesn't seem to be anywhere to register on ripple.com.

[wtfvanity]

Seems to me they are riding one of the carts on the "decentralized" train uninvited.

In regards to uninvited, they do have Jed McCaleb on the team...

Who started the largest centralized exchange for bitcoin? And where it is still unclear if he is directly responsible for the database leak?