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Question: Do you agree with the OP?
I AGREE - 82 (71.9%)
I DISAGREE - 32 (28.1%)
Total Voters: 114

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Author Topic: Initiative to help Simon Hausdorf to clear things @ bitcoin-24 <-- SIMON READ IT  (Read 21930 times)
Pentium100
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April 13, 2013, 09:23:03 AM
 #21

But for that B24 had a pretty decent front end. I doubt this will get "fixed" in 2 weeks, because it is only a question of time until the next bug. And you can't have bugs like that. Failure is not an option here.

The more important question is whether or not I (and other users of BTC24) will get my Euros and Bitcoins back.


As for the trading engine - wouldn't it be possible to make it execute the trades less often (say once per second)? It would make the coding easier and discourage the use of bots (but not affect humans putting the orders since a human cannot add/remove orders much faster than once per second).

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pghalliday
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April 13, 2013, 09:50:45 AM
 #22

@btcmind I think you should be interested in the buttercoin project then

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c7v6z/buttercoin_open_source_highperformance_bitcoin/

The LMAX architecture that they want to replicate sounds very promising

http://martinfowler.com/articles/lmax.html
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April 13, 2013, 10:00:48 AM
 #23


The more important question is whether or not I (and other users of BTC24) will get my Euros and Bitcoins back.

My guess is that we won't hear much the next days, then suddenly some sort of ill conceived claims process will be announced. I requested a sepa withdrawal 10 days ago, but I am highly skeptical that I will ever see my money again.
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April 13, 2013, 10:02:57 AM
 #24

I bet he just saw this post.
Quote
Summary - TAiS46
Name:   TAiS46
Last Active:   Today at 06:09:49 AM
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=23819
mrvision
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April 13, 2013, 10:10:04 AM
 #25

I bet he did saw everything as he changed "YOUR ACCOUNT" for "OUR ACCOUNT" in his website.
Which i would say its a good sign.

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April 13, 2013, 10:12:25 AM
 #26

@btcmind I think you should be interested in the buttercoin project then

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c7v6z/buttercoin_open_source_highperformance_bitcoin/

The LMAX architecture that they want to replicate sounds very promising

http://martinfowler.com/articles/lmax.html


THANKS!
btcmind
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April 13, 2013, 10:17:37 AM
 #27

As for the trading engine - wouldn't it be possible to make it execute the trades less often (say once per second)? It would make the coding easier and discourage the use of bots (but not affect humans putting the orders since a human cannot add/remove orders much faster than once per second).

Well, is it once per second or once per 1.000001 second? There is currently a stupid debate on high frequency trading for normal exchanges. Problem is, that computers are just better at this stuff. Hence the very natural relation of BTC and automated trading. People trading on the exchanges are mostly liquidity takers. Liquidty providers, provide the service in the form of tighter spreads. Marketmakers and exchanges are both part of the infrastructure. Building the exchange is not enough. So, discouraging bots is the LAST thing at BTC exchange should do. It's a shame that Bitfloor didn't get this right. But the source they published was, well, not up to the task. One needs stuff like volatility interruptions and single timed auctions.
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April 13, 2013, 10:29:11 AM
 #28

HEY GUYS... WANT TO SEE LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL?

It turns out that there aren't so many cuadruplicated orders....

http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=An7AkdaW

Mine is the one with this amount: 6.35472050 and you can see it 4 times.


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April 13, 2013, 10:50:52 AM
 #29

I don't think Simon Hausdorf is arrested.
There seems to be some testing activity on his website.
And then this sentence on his website.
"We will back with Bitcoin-24 2.0 on when all declarations are finished."
He probably starts to see that restarting the trade engine is no longer an option
He was already searching for coding solutions on the internet before the site was shutdown.

Personally I think the Polish authority frozen his bank account to prevent money laundery.
I have withdraw multiple 5000 Euro per day without having myself verified on his site.
I can't do that on MTGox or BTC-Central without myself been verified.
On MTGox you need to verified yourself to withdraw 1000 Euro a day and if you want to withdraw more than 1000 Euro, you need
to send MTGox a apostille of your passport.
If he co-operate and redesign the website to prevent anti-money laundery, his polish account will be set active again.
"Our lawyers are working with high pressure on a solution."
I think this is the reasson why he need lawyers working on a solution.
This mean all users need to be verified if they want to do bigger transactions.

These are my thoughts and I hope I am right about it.

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April 13, 2013, 12:58:09 PM
 #30

HEY GUYS... WANT TO SEE LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL?

It turns out that there aren't so many cuadruplicated orders....

http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=An7AkdaW

Mine is the one with this amount: 6.35472050 and you can see it 4 times.



this can't be all. I myself had a list longer than that.
i remember at least orders with 62.2 (those where split-executed, so this should have been 8 or 12). 51.1 and 52.2 with split orders, so another 8-16 lines of orders. and there where more but i dont remeber the exact price.

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April 13, 2013, 02:25:41 PM
 #31

This is very frustrating. Many people live outside Poland, Uk or Germany, and doesn't speack German language. Many €, many BTC involved. Its very hard to cope with...
 Embarrassed

Leave the force be with you...
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April 13, 2013, 03:11:11 PM
 #32

He is alive:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c7utl/bitcoin24com_the_polish_authority_closed_your_our/c9eb1h6
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April 13, 2013, 07:26:05 PM
 #33

I see disagreements as market opportunities.  We can all put our money where our mouths are.  Following is an idea I thought up to make this happen.  It will relieve those who fear that bitcoin-24 is going to rob us, and it will punish whoever is wrong about the site - either those who don't trust will lose their 10%, or those who put (more) faith into Simon will lose a bit more than is already at stake.

The main thrust of my effort is to protect someone (Simon) who I think is currently vulnerable to legal attacks that will hurt everyone (because governments LOVE to do that :-( ).

So please critique:

Bitcoin Insurance Contract
Whereas the website operated by Simon Hausdorf under the domain bitcoin-24.com has been inoperable for some time, and
whereas bitcoin-24's account holders (HOLDERS) would like their holdings, both in fiat and in bitcoin, to be insured against permanent loss,
whereas some HOLDERS are willing to take a 10% loss for this insurance on some part of their holdings, and
whereas Dave Scotese (SCOTESE) and others (together, INVESTORS) believe that the owner(s) of bitcoin-24 is a trustworthy business which will honor the purchase of HOLDERS holdings represented by QUALIFYING TRANSACTIONs (as defined below), and
whereas SCOTESE, who owns the bitcoin address X (ADDRESS), wishes to provide such insurance service, and
whereas INVESTORS would like to earn a piece of the 10% that some HOLDERS are willing to spend,
therefore, SCOTESE represents that he will perform the DUTIES described below within one week following the end of every month starting with April of 2013:
DEFINITIONS
MARKER: The last four digits of the amount of satoshis represented in an INPUT to a transaction sent to ADDRESS.
EXPIRATION: The time at which the first block is added to the blockchain in a given month.  If a block comes after another block but has an earlier timestamp, both blocks will be considered to hold transactions made AFTER EXPIRATION.
QUALIFYING TRANSACTION: Any transaction in which A) bitcoin is sent to ADDRESS, and B) the INPUT to ADDRESS has a MARKER that indicates a month later than March of 2013.  For transactions which have multiple inputs to ADDRESS, each input will be considered separately as a QUALIFYING TRANSACTION if a transaction containing that input alone would be a QUALIFYING TRANSACTION.
INVESTMENT TRANSACTION: Any transaction in which A) bitcoin is sent to ADDRESS, and B) the INPUT to ADDRESS has a MARKER that indicates a month later than March of 2013, and C) the MARKER is preceded by the digit 1.  Note that HOLDERS who would like to invest are, at the same time, insuring themselves if they use addresses that have
TERMINATING INPUT: Any input in a QUALIFYING TRANSACTION for which the MARKER indicates the latest month for which EXPIRATION has passed.
TERMINATING OUTPUT: The first output in any QUALIFYING TRANSACTION that has an associated bitcoin address (excludes scripts that do not represent sending addresses).
TERMINATING ADDRESS: The bitcoin address associated with a TERMINATING OUTPUT.
DUTIES
1. Compute the INSURED SUM by adding up all TERMINATING INPUTs.
2. Compute the INVESTED SUM by adding up all INVESTMENT TRANSACTIONs and subtracting out the INVESTED SUM computed the last time these DUTIES were performed, if ever.
3. Determine whether or not A) each TERMINATING ADDRESS belongs to a HOLDER and B) the bitcoin-24 account for that HOLDER contains at least ten times the TERMINATING INPUT amount.  Anyone who disagrees with the results of this determination is invited to use their bitcoin client to sign a request for evidence with their TERMINATING ADDRESS and post it to this thread for public scrutiny.
4. Distribute up to the INVESTED SUM to the TERMINATING ADDRESSES that passed both tests A and B listed previously.  If the INVESTED SUM is less than ten times the INSURED SUM, then:
    4.1 The COVERED PERCENTAGE will be computed by dividing ten times the INSURED SUM by the INVESTED SUM, and
    4.2 The COVERED PERCENTAGE of the TERMINATING INPUTS will be subtracted from each of the TERMINATING ADDRESSES and the remainder will be sent back to the TERMINATING ADDRESSES.
5. Create a report for Bitcoin-24 indicating the TERMINATING ADDRESSes and the part of the INSURED SUM for each one so that bitcoin-24 can reimburse INVESTORS from the HOLDER's account.
TERMINATION
If and when bitcoin-24 is able to respond to this effort, either by demonstrating a resolve to keep what they have and destroy their reputation, or by reimbursing INVESTORS, SCOTESE plans to keep 1% of the reimbursements as payment for the service he has provided.

I like to provide some work at no charge to prove my valueAvoid supporting terrorism!
Satoshi Nakamoto: "He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules."
yucca
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April 13, 2013, 09:14:46 PM
 #34

I don't think Simon Hausdorf is arrested.
There seems to be some testing activity on his website.
And then this sentence on his website.
"We will back with Bitcoin-24 2.0 on when all declarations are finished."
He probably starts to see that restarting the trade engine is no longer an option
He was already searching for coding solutions on the internet before the site was shutdown.

Personally I think the Polish authority frozen his bank account to prevent money laundery.

I have withdraw multiple 5000 Euro per day without having myself verified on his site.
I can't do that on MTGox or BTC-Central without myself been verified.
On MTGox you need to verified yourself to withdraw 1000 Euro a day and if you want to withdraw more than 1000 Euro, you need
to send MTGox a apostille of your passport.
If he co-operate and redesign the website to prevent anti-money laundery, his polish account will be set active again.
"Our lawyers are working with high pressure on a solution."
I think this is the reasson why he need lawyers working on a solution.
This mean all users need to be verified if they want to do bigger transactions.

These are my thoughts and I hope I am right about it.

I think you are correct, the bank suddenly realised that this was not an ordinary online business but an exchange. As the account holders were not properly verified it attracts laundering from ill gotten bank details.

Perhaps someone who had trouble with the trade engine short changing them by a large amount contacted the bank complaining.

So we have two issues, a trade engine that was starting to screw up under the load. And regulatory measures being imposed by the bank.

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April 13, 2013, 09:50:49 PM
 #35


I think you are correct, the bank suddenly realised that this was not an ordinary online business but an exchange. As the account holders were not properly verified it attracts laundering from ill gotten bank details.

Perhaps someone who had trouble with the trade engine short changing them by a large amount contacted the bank complaining.

So we have two issues, a trade engine that was starting to screw up under the load. And regulatory measures being imposed by the bank.

So now everyone probably has to submit verification documents before they can receive some of their money back. Probably documents have to be notarized or what it's called too.

The biggest risk with your bitcoin investment is not the price swings, it's trying to cash out your gains! They may or may not end up in limbo.
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April 13, 2013, 09:53:56 PM
 #36

I see disagreements as market opportunities.  We can all put our money where our mouths are.  Following is an idea I thought up to make this happen.  It will relieve those who fear that bitcoin-24 is going to rob us, and it will punish whoever is wrong about the site - either those who don't trust will lose their 10%, or those who put (more) faith into Simon will lose a bit more than is already at stake.

The main thrust of my effort is to protect someone (Simon) who I think is currently vulnerable to legal attacks that will hurt everyone (because governments LOVE to do that :-( ).

So please critique:

Bitcoin Insurance Contract
Whereas the website operated by Simon Hausdorf under the domain bitcoin-24.com has been inoperable for some time, and
whereas bitcoin-24's account holders (HOLDERS) would like their holdings, both in fiat and in bitcoin, to be insured against permanent loss,
whereas some HOLDERS are willing to take a 10% loss for this insurance on some part of their holdings, and
whereas Dave Scotese (SCOTESE) and others (together, INVESTORS) believe that the owner(s) of bitcoin-24 is a trustworthy business which will honor the purchase of HOLDERS holdings represented by QUALIFYING TRANSACTIONs (as defined below), and
whereas SCOTESE, who owns the bitcoin address X (ADDRESS), wishes to provide such insurance service, and
whereas INVESTORS would like to earn a piece of the 10% that some HOLDERS are willing to spend,
therefore, SCOTESE represents that he will perform the DUTIES described below within one week following the end of every month starting with April of 2013:
DEFINITIONS
MARKER: The last four digits of the amount of satoshis represented in an INPUT to a transaction sent to ADDRESS.
EXPIRATION: The time at which the first block is added to the blockchain in a given month.  If a block comes after another block but has an earlier timestamp, both blocks will be considered to hold transactions made AFTER EXPIRATION.
QUALIFYING TRANSACTION: Any transaction in which A) bitcoin is sent to ADDRESS, and B) the INPUT to ADDRESS has a MARKER that indicates a month later than March of 2013.  For transactions which have multiple inputs to ADDRESS, each input will be considered separately as a QUALIFYING TRANSACTION if a transaction containing that input alone would be a QUALIFYING TRANSACTION.
INVESTMENT TRANSACTION: Any transaction in which A) bitcoin is sent to ADDRESS, and B) the INPUT to ADDRESS has a MARKER that indicates a month later than March of 2013, and C) the MARKER is preceded by the digit 1.  Note that HOLDERS who would like to invest are, at the same time, insuring themselves if they use addresses that have
TERMINATING INPUT: Any input in a QUALIFYING TRANSACTION for which the MARKER indicates the latest month for which EXPIRATION has passed.
TERMINATING OUTPUT: The first output in any QUALIFYING TRANSACTION that has an associated bitcoin address (excludes scripts that do not represent sending addresses).
TERMINATING ADDRESS: The bitcoin address associated with a TERMINATING OUTPUT.
DUTIES
1. Compute the INSURED SUM by adding up all TERMINATING INPUTs.
2. Compute the INVESTED SUM by adding up all INVESTMENT TRANSACTIONs and subtracting out the INVESTED SUM computed the last time these DUTIES were performed, if ever.
3. Determine whether or not A) each TERMINATING ADDRESS belongs to a HOLDER and B) the bitcoin-24 account for that HOLDER contains at least ten times the TERMINATING INPUT amount.  Anyone who disagrees with the results of this determination is invited to use their bitcoin client to sign a request for evidence with their TERMINATING ADDRESS and post it to this thread for public scrutiny.
4. Distribute up to the INVESTED SUM to the TERMINATING ADDRESSES that passed both tests A and B listed previously.  If the INVESTED SUM is less than ten times the INSURED SUM, then:
    4.1 The COVERED PERCENTAGE will be computed by dividing ten times the INSURED SUM by the INVESTED SUM, and
    4.2 The COVERED PERCENTAGE of the TERMINATING INPUTS will be subtracted from each of the TERMINATING ADDRESSES and the remainder will be sent back to the TERMINATING ADDRESSES.
5. Create a report for Bitcoin-24 indicating the TERMINATING ADDRESSes and the part of the INSURED SUM for each one so that bitcoin-24 can reimburse INVESTORS from the HOLDER's account.
TERMINATION
If and when bitcoin-24 is able to respond to this effort, either by demonstrating a resolve to keep what they have and destroy their reputation, or by reimbursing INVESTORS, SCOTESE plans to keep 1% of the reimbursements as payment for the service he has provided.

In english, please?
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April 13, 2013, 11:51:25 PM
 #37

In english, please?

What a Gumby!

2weiX
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April 14, 2013, 07:21:37 AM
 #38

In english, please?

What a Gumby!

no, seriously.
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April 14, 2013, 08:10:09 AM
 #39

So now everyone probably has to submit verification documents before they can receive some of their money back. Probably documents have to be notarized or what it's called too.
That can be a good thing.

The biggest risk with your bitcoin investment is not the price swings, it's trying to cash out your gains! They may or may not end up in limbo.
So true.
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April 14, 2013, 09:21:55 AM
 #40

Simon has posted some information on Reddit.

Read here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=174600.msg1835562#msg1835562

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LTC: LV9MiA3iPVUm8qRFYbLkARuoYwvmHwhWaC

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