Initiative to help Simon Hausdorf to clear things @ bitcoin-24 <-- SIMON READ IT

[2weiX]

And still not a single word on the tens of thousands of BTC he is holding.  It is almost like he is pretending they don't exist.  Has anyone called him out on that?

If he pays them out now, while under investigation, this would get him jailtime.

In §261 of the german penal code you find a parapgraph dealing with obfuscation of money laundering funds. Sending them out would mean he is likely breaking this law, while under investigation.

He might get lucky if his lawyer gets him out under §258 that says that obfuscation measures are not penalized if he is trying to help himself, but in germany, we have a saying "Out on the sea and in german courts, you are in the hand of god."

It might net him 2-3 years of trials and costs.


I know that it sucks, really sucks donkey balls for everyone who has money with him, but he is an idiot to make ANY statement. He should shut the fuck up and say no. word. at. al. Not to police, not to the DA, not to his customers. And definitely not in an open forum.

I repeat, Simon if you read this: Shut the fuck up and stop trying to be nice to your customers. It is hurting THEM and YOURSELF.
You want them to get their money back? Get your site back online? Great, stfu. And I don't know how good your lawyer is. I really don't. But I suggest getting in touch with Udo Vetter, a criminal defense lawyer from the pirate party.

BTCs were able to be withdrawn as of Sunday night.
I could log in to both my accounts, € balance was still there and as I remembered it.

I have filed for a title (court order for payment) with the local DA.

This is not an act against Simon whom I personally like a lot, but to secure my assets agains confiscation by the authorities.

[1714681000]

1714681000

[1714681000]

1714681000

[1714681000]

1714681000

[Schrankwand]

And still not a single word on the tens of thousands of BTC he is holding.  It is almost like he is pretending they don't exist.  Has anyone called him out on that?

If he pays them out now, while under investigation, this would get him jailtime.

In §261 of the german penal code you find a parapgraph dealing with obfuscation of money laundering funds. Sending them out would mean he is likely breaking this law, while under investigation.

He might get lucky if his lawyer gets him out under §258 that says that obfuscation measures are not penalized if he is trying to help himself, but in germany, we have a saying "Out on the sea and in german courts, you are in the hand of god."

It might net him 2-3 years of trials and costs.


I know that it sucks, really sucks donkey balls for everyone who has money with him, but he is an idiot to make ANY statement. He should shut the fuck up and say no. word. at. al. Not to police, not to the DA, not to his customers. And definitely not in an open forum.

I repeat, Simon if you read this: Shut the fuck up and stop trying to be nice to your customers. It is hurting THEM and YOURSELF.
You want them to get their money back? Get your site back online? Great, stfu. And I don't know how good your lawyer is. I really don't. But I suggest getting in touch with Udo Vetter, a criminal defense lawyer from the pirate party.

BTCs were able to be withdrawn as of Sunday night.
I could log in to both my accounts, € balance was still there and as I remembered it.

I have filed for a title (court order for payment) with the local DA.

This is not an act against Simon whom I personally like a lot, but to secure my assets agains confiscation by the authorities.

Unfortunately a probably smart move, but since this should be Zivilrecht, this should be not damaging at all. I hope however, that the court costs won't destroy him.

[ZephramC]

And still not a single word on the tens of thousands of BTC he is holding.  It is almost like he is pretending they don't exist.  Has anyone called him out on that?

If he pays them out now, while under investigation, this would get him jailtime.

In §261 of the german penal code you find a parapgraph dealing with obfuscation of money laundering funds. Sending them out would mean he is likely breaking this law, while under investigation.

He might get lucky if his lawyer gets him out under §258 that says that obfuscation measures are not penalized if he is trying to help himself, but in germany, we have a saying "Out on the sea and in german courts, you are in the hand of god."

It might net him 2-3 years of trials and costs.


I know that it sucks, really sucks donkey balls for everyone who has money with him, but he is an idiot to make ANY statement. He should shut the fuck up and say no. word. at. al. Not to police, not to the DA, not to his customers. And definitely not in an open forum.

I repeat, Simon if you read this: Shut the fuck up and stop trying to be nice to your customers. It is hurting THEM and YOURSELF.
You want them to get their money back? Get your site back online? Great, stfu. And I don't know how good your lawyer is. I really don't. But I suggest getting in touch with Udo Vetter, a criminal defense lawyer from the pirate party.

I strongly disagree. We need more transparency and communication from Simon not less. (And returned BTC and EUR as soon as possible to restore some trust.) ( Not supporting government "guilty-until-proven-innocent" AML witchhunt. :-] )
Actually withdrawals of BTC are working for 22 hours (with remark "All of them will be processed manually in the next 24 hours"). Lets hope this time Simon will keep the word. Some people (claims that they) already received their BTC so I am becoming lightly optimistic that perhaps I will be also one of them soon. For fiat, we have to wait.

[Schrankwand]

And still not a single word on the tens of thousands of BTC he is holding.  It is almost like he is pretending they don't exist.  Has anyone called him out on that?

If he pays them out now, while under investigation, this would get him jailtime.

In §261 of the german penal code you find a parapgraph dealing with obfuscation of money laundering funds. Sending them out would mean he is likely breaking this law, while under investigation.

He might get lucky if his lawyer gets him out under §258 that says that obfuscation measures are not penalized if he is trying to help himself, but in germany, we have a saying "Out on the sea and in german courts, you are in the hand of god."

It might net him 2-3 years of trials and costs.


I know that it sucks, really sucks donkey balls for everyone who has money with him, but he is an idiot to make ANY statement. He should shut the fuck up and say no. word. at. al. Not to police, not to the DA, not to his customers. And definitely not in an open forum.

I repeat, Simon if you read this: Shut the fuck up and stop trying to be nice to your customers. It is hurting THEM and YOURSELF.
You want them to get their money back? Get your site back online? Great, stfu. And I don't know how good your lawyer is. I really don't. But I suggest getting in touch with Udo Vetter, a criminal defense lawyer from the pirate party.

I strongly disagree. We need more transparency and communication from Simon not less. (And returned BTC and EUR as soon as possible to restore some trust.) ( Not supporting government "guilty-until-proven-innocent" AML witchhunt. :-] )
Actually withdrawals of BTC are working for 22 hours (with remark "All of them will be processed manually in the next 24 hours"). Lets hope this time Simon will keep the word. Some people (claims that they) already received their BTC so I am becoming lightly optimistic that perhaps I will be also one of them soon. For fiat, we have to wait.

Absolute transparency when under penal investigation is the stupidest thing you can do.

There is ONE rule that you HAVE to follow when under investigation. Only ONE rule, that every lawyer should hit into people's heads: You keep your mouth shut. Everywhere, anywhere.

I know this sucks for customers. But I do not know how many times a lawyer in my vicinity says "Well, if half of my clients would just shut the fuck up, I'd be a hero lawyer. But the problem is, my clients are idiots when it comes to this."

Ingrain this video in your heads everyone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

[Amitabh S]

Got my btc back. Good luck everyone!

[morningtime]

According to the lawyer,

In the Bundesanzeiger the prosecutor office says that all clients have
to claim against BTC24 or Mr. Hausdorf, if they want their money
back.

So that's what I'll do. I'm not taking the risk of the "lazy approach".

[ZephramC]

I also got my BTC back from Bitcoin-24. I have left some of them there intentionally though.

[Richy_T]

Still waiting for mine. It's been 25 hours which is a touch over the 24 they said but I'm willing to cut them some slack since things do appear to actually be moving.

[Amitabh S]

Still waiting for mine. It's been 25 hours which is a touch over the 24 they said but I'm willing to cut them some slack since things do appear to actually be moving.

Have you got them back? How much time has elapsed?

[Richy_T]

Still waiting for mine. It's been 25 hours which is a touch over the 24 they said but I'm willing to cut them some slack since things do appear to actually be moving.

Have you got them back? How much time has elapsed?

Yes. They arrived yesterday afternoon. I guess around 4 hours after I posted. That's good enough for me.

I'd be interested to know what they were worth when the site closed down but that part of the interface isn't available. I think they're up though.

[fivemileshigh]

It's been 3 weeks and a few unanswered emails since I filed for my btc withdrawal, and no response, no btc yet. I'm really getting pissed now.

[LtPaxIV]

new lawyer statement wich isnt posted on bitcoin-24.com yet

in german

http://www.rdp-law.de/uploads/media/Erklaerung_13_05_31.pdf

and in english

http://www.rdp-law.de/uploads/media/Statement_13_05_31.pdf

[bernard75]

Just so its clear to everybody this concerns only funds that were wired to the German Commerzbank account between 09.04 and 12.04.
Which should be only a friction of the cash frozen there.

[madc0w]

Has anybody actually received the BTC that were promised to be transferred "within 24 hours"?  I made a transfer request some *6 weeks* ago, and, while the BTC did indeed disappear from my bitcoin24 account, I have yet to receive them.  All of my numerous attempts to contact Simon Hausdorf and bitcoin24 have been met with silence.  I've taken contact with RDP, the law firm representing him, who have been a bit more communicative, but they are equally unable to provide any insight as to the meaning or cause of this extreme delay in processing.

As this is not a small amount of money in question, I'm starting to consider legal action.  Has anybody been in touch with a German lawyer regarding this matter?

[Amitabh S]

I did get my BTC, though not in 24 hours. It was close to 26.

[bernard75]

Got my BTC the day it was announced.

@madc0w
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=171307.msg2523725#msg2523725
Although i doubt it will do you any good atm, they can simply claim that payouts are impossible due to matters beyond their control.
And all you gained is a bill from a Polish lawyer.

[madc0w]

I can hardly believe my eyes... but after *2 solid months* and innumerable unanswered emails and support requests to Simon, my transfer finally came through!

[2weiX]

I can hardly believe my eyes... but after *2 solid months* and innumerable unanswered emails and support requests to Simon, my transfer finally came through!

Don't act like that.
The guy has been in a REAL pinch, one that I don't wish upon anybody.
That this has been resolved halfway gracefully and decent with the help of the law can be viewed as a major, major success.

[madc0w]

I appreciate that, but he must also appreciate how it looks to the outside world when he fails to reply to email and to support requests.  Yeah, I'm glad I'm not him right now... but sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between scammers and regulatory victims.  A little good faith communication (not just from his lawyers) would go a long way.

Regardless, I'm here to testify... it took some time, and a lot of insisting, but Simon came through!

[2weiX]

I appreciate that, but he must also appreciate how it looks to the outside world when he fails to reply to email and to support requests.  Yeah, I'm glad I'm not him right now... but sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between scammers and regulatory victims.  A little good faith communication (not just from his lawyers) would go a long way.

Regardless, I'm here to testify... it took some time, and a lot of insisting, but Simon came through!

He can't. He's probably under gag order from his lawyer. When I sent him an eMail, his lawyer wrote / called back (that was in the very early stages of this, and I have significant amounts on their Polish acc). After this - nothing. I can fully understand that.