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Author Topic: Initiative to help Simon Hausdorf to clear things @ bitcoin-24 <-- SIMON READ IT  (Read 21590 times)
mrvision
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April 12, 2013, 09:57:16 PM
 #1

I really think it is a bad idea to talk with the Police at this point of the story. First, because that would make this last forever, second because that would lead to the seizure of all the IT equipment so the private keys of the cold storage might get compromised.

So our best option is to let Simon work, and help him if possible.

What i think Simon should do is to take the time to comunicate with us and explain:

  • What happened.
  • What happens now
  • Main problems he's facing to fix things up
  • How can we help
  • How long is it going to take to withdraw funds and how can we speed this up.

Now, being said that the use of the force might not be the best option  right now (calling the cops)...

I think we could help Simon if we tell him
  • Our username
  • The balance we remember.
  • The active orders we had
  • And if required, our password so he can log in as the user and check our account.

Then, after withdrawing funds, he could close our account, or mark it as processed.

Afterwards we will need to lead with 2 other problems:
  • First, the transactions that were sent to the engine and the engine didn't detect.
  • And second, the transactions to were sent to users with excesive funds.

I would start with the second issue, and, because he has all the transactions logs and identified all users (And because he only sent what was on the hot wallet) he could kindly send these users an email asking for the funds. And exposing them if they don't collaborate.

And of course, if you know that you have funds that doesn't belong to you, you can post here your intention to refund them.

Simon, think that you can work with us. And we can fix this working all together. Smiley

Hope you like the idea.



P.S. There are at least 18079+ BTC in control of Simon Hausdorf. And all mistakes were in favour of the customers (not his own), so be helpful and have faith.
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Zr40
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April 12, 2013, 10:04:27 PM
 #2

I think we could help Simon if we tell him
  • Our username
  • The balance we remember.
  • The active orders we had
  • And if required, our password so he can log in as the user and check our account.
There are two obvious issues with this:

1. Users can report higher balances than they actually have.
2. Passwords should not be needed; he already has access to the database, and if he really needed to be able to log in as the user, he could just temporarily change the password hash stored for the user.
tempt
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April 12, 2013, 10:06:14 PM
 #3

Posting this here also.


Simon Hausdorfs Bitcoin Wallets:

Cold Storage:

1GcWYgqbdtzZAGsX2iSVBS74cPBiQjCiRg > https://blockchain.info/address/1GcWYgqbdtzZAGsX2iSVBS74cPBiQjCiRg
Balance: 8,848.39013303

Semi Hot Wallet (maybe Cold storage):
1AnixjBYxpTzAmfSa8kRdBiUaSGV2e9d26 > https://blockchain.info/address/1AnixjBYxpTzAmfSa8kRdBiUaSGV2e9d26
Balance: 7,100.77857022

Hot Wallet:
1BTC24yVKQdQNAa4vX71xLUC5A8Za7Rr71 > https://blockchain.info/address/1BTC24yVKQdQNAa4vX71xLUC5A8Za7Rr71
Balance: 0

Affiliated Wallets, probably his own, since all the affiliated addresses send each other coins:

1AfY3571v8VbhMq19DA44378qSXPQmv734 > https://blockchain.info/address/1AfY3571v8VbhMq19DA44378qSXPQmv734
Balance: 599
Received BTC from 1GcWY as well as 1Anixj
https://blockchain.info/tx/e83076451c35e85733686d238ba6ae0d5bf7a3ce80d4c04390625e6f6e75157a
https://blockchain.info/tx/d50082cf25e3ea2b9f7811c5c747fd2414004c2bb1e7f100028f23f642c65565

1MVCn7PuFtnCgHKjYvVpqE62ifVKNCA8mU > https://blockchain.info/address/1MVCn7PuFtnCgHKjYvVpqE62ifVKNCA8mU
Balance: 1,532.00
Received BTC from 1Anix as well as 1AfY


Makes a total of 18079 BTC in control of Simon Hausdorf, and thats what I found in about 5 Minutes work. If we search deeper, we might find more. I found some edgy 96.xxxxBTC transfers from 1Anix but I am not sure if they are his because some of them are spend. But its unusual he sends money from 1Anix, since this is his cold storage(or maybe not).

Feel free to contribute.
mrvision
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April 12, 2013, 10:11:50 PM
 #4

There are two obvious issues with this:

1. Users can report higher balances than they actually have.
2. Passwords should not be needed; he already has access to the database, and if he really needed to be able to log in as the user, he could just temporarily change the password hash stored for the user.

1. Of course he has to check everything we tell him. But for example in my case some transactions were repeated, so maybe if i tell him exactly were were the errors, that can speed things up.

2. I don't know the database structure, maybe everything is splitted in tables and he has to build a complex query to extract that info. About the password when the hash solution is true, we don't know if the user password encrypted something in order to make it not accessible to him (or the gov) so changing the password might not be a solution in some cases, that's why i said "IF REQUIRED". (i like to to do this things to protect the user from seizures)

But this is anecdotic. The key point is that the initiative is to offer him what he needs in order to help him to help us.

ZephramC
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April 12, 2013, 10:15:31 PM
 #5

Do you expect to give Simon some deadline?
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April 12, 2013, 10:17:58 PM
 #6

He doesn't need to know how much money you think you had, or what your password is.  Realistically there's nothing you can do to help except be patient.

If I were he, I would:

1. Analyze the past transactions to work out how much has been lost to errors
2. Figure out how much is recoverable by fixing the broken trades, i.e. how much has not yet been withdrawn, and also decide whether this is ethical
3. Figure out how much is not recoverable, and whether the business has enough reserves to cover the losses
4. If not, figure out if he can prop it up somehow or whether he must declare bankruptcy
5. Overall, limit his business's exposure to lawsuits down the road, either people who disagree with the outcome of (2), or people who feel robbed due to the exchange's downtime and freezing of their BTC during a crash, or... etc, the richest people will find many reasons to sue
6. Plan how to restart the site without bugs or bad publicity

To me, that (2) is ethical or fair is not obvious.  It is a very difficult situation.  See (5).

BTC: 14ciemcbiGQ328NUTUz7j4wZ2tKy998C4a
LTC: LMUo6xEJZtPsNDpZe2QLEzmK1eW4tYZNLF
mrvision
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April 12, 2013, 10:23:29 PM
 #7

He doesn't need to know how much money you think you had, or what your password is.  Realistically there's nothing you can do to help except be patient.

If I were he, I would:

1. Analyze the past transactions to work out how much has been lost to errors
2. Figure out how much is recoverable by fixing the broken trades, i.e. how much has not yet been withdrawn, and also decide whether this is ethical
3. Figure out how much is not recoverable, and whether the business has enough reserves to cover the losses
4. If not, figure out if he can prop it up somehow or whether he must declare bankruptcy
5. Overall, limit his business's exposure to lawsuits down the road, either people who disagree with the outcome of (2), or people who feel robbed due to the exchange's downtime and freezing of their BTC during a crash, or... etc, the richest people will find many reasons to sue
6. Plan how to restart the site without bugs or bad publicity

To me, that (2) is ethical or fair is not obvious.  It is a very difficult situation.  See (5).


Yeah, this looks reasonable. Except the patient thing. I need him to say something in order to know what to expect.
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April 12, 2013, 10:31:49 PM
 #8

A marketplace is not a place where people go to hold hands and sing kumbaya. The fact is, he his holding other peoples money and I (like many other people) can't access my money.
To be honest I don't think I'll see that money again. I pretty much consider it gone.

I don't know if he is a nice guy or whatever, all I know is that my money is there and I can't reach it. Turns out he is technically not capable of putting together a robust trading system. Well, that doesn't make him a more serous person.

People need to be confronted with what they are responsible for.  This guy didn't honor his word. It doesn't matter if he did it on purpose or if it was out of incompetence, as things stand ATM he is a scammer.
ZephramC
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April 12, 2013, 11:11:08 PM
 #9

How is it that Bitcoin-24 is still making trades in EUR? (http://bitcoinity.org/markets/bitcoin24/EUR)
but not in USD? (http://bitcoinity.org/markets/bitcoin24/USD) This is not so interesting question as the first one.
BitAurum
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April 12, 2013, 11:21:32 PM
 #10

Probably because the bot running on the server and arbitraging with Gox is still up Cheesy
Amitabh S
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April 12, 2013, 11:27:40 PM
 #11

The lack of communication in the past from Simon should have been a red flag for everyone. 

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April 12, 2013, 11:45:11 PM
 #12

Do you think we will ever see our right amount of money again?

BitAurum
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April 12, 2013, 11:51:04 PM
 #13

We should probably move this to the german section of the forum. I am pretty certain that we will not receive eloquent replies from him in English.

Also, I believe that we should stop painting things black and white, aka talk in absolutes when we don't know how things work. Nobody gets put into jail because someone wrote an angry letter.
If a police report (yes, you don't go to the Staatsanwalt, you go to the Polizei, who work the case and present it to the DA) was filed in the matter presented in the other threads, they would, once they stop laughing, check that he is still residing at his home address and forbid him to move. Then the DA would maybe (!) put him on house arrest until it is certain that he did not intentionally defraud anyone. After that, even if the platform stays down and everyone lost everything, it's not a matter of criminal law, so he will not be put in jail for an investigation.

Rather, because he does business over his LTD, a settlement procedure for the capital of the Limited will be instigated in civil court in Britain by those who lost enough to make this worth their while.

These are all eventualities. So just calm down and wait. The platform was buggy in June 2012, it will remain buggy. What matters is the balance in the BTC and Fiat accounts, and although it was a tactical clusterfuck to put "we lost our bank account" in a 302-message, your and my funds are most likely still there.

Now safe your breath and wait a day before starting to lynch people. Although it might get him to hire an IT consultant for his code. Maybe the bitcoin-central team is still available Tongue
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April 12, 2013, 11:57:03 PM
 #14

does anybody knows, wtf happened?
aes1
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April 13, 2013, 12:44:10 AM
 #15

If I were he, I would:

1. Analyze the past transactions to work out how much has been lost to errors
2. Figure out how much is recoverable by fixing the broken trades, i.e. how much has not yet been withdrawn, and also decide whether this is ethical
3. Figure out how much is not recoverable, and whether the business has enough reserves to cover the losses
4. If not, figure out if he can prop it up somehow or whether he must declare bankruptcy
5. Overall, limit his business's exposure to lawsuits down the road, either people who disagree with the outcome of (2), or people who feel robbed due to the exchange's downtime and freezing of their BTC during a crash, or... etc, the richest people will find many reasons to sue
6. Plan how to restart the site without bugs or bad publicity

To me, that (2) is ethical or fair is not obvious.  It is a very difficult situation.  See (5).


One way to cope with the situation would be to
1. undo the faulty transactions (even though it would lead to a situation where someone's balance would be negative if they withdrew too much because of the bug)
2. FIX THE BUGGY SOFTWARE
3. "kindly" ask the people with negative balance to pay back the extra they have withdrawn (which is, likely, a criminal offence - and bitcoin-24 has their ip address, email address, bitcoin address they have withdrawn to, and possibly bank account number, and possibly phone number)
4. continue operation
5. introduce transaction fees to cover the losses, of which will inevitably be some. It might be possible to continue operation, for now, with negative total balance - it's not likely that everyone withdraws their funds at the same time. (After all, banks do the same thing.)

Oh, and step (0) and everywhere in between would be to COMMUNICATE - I want to know what's going on, what's going to happen to my balance, will the site ever come up again, etc.

I suspect that many won't trust bitcoin-24 after this. But then again, other exchanges have been faulty/hacked, too, and have recovered.
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April 13, 2013, 01:41:20 AM
 #16

It is interesting to think about what Simon might be doing while so many people are wishing he would post something on these forums.  If he has been held by police for any reason, that would explain it, but is it common for people in Germany to be held incommunicado?  I know that it's embarrassing to call a friend or family member from the clutches of an authority and try to explain that you have customers who ought to know what's going on.  If that happens, I would be impressed, since what I have gathered from reading posts about bitcoin-24 is that Simon Hausdorf is pretty green.

In my Internet search, I found this address where it says he was born in 1989:
BTC24 LIMITED
69 GREAT HAMPTON STREET, BIRMINGHAM, UNITED KINGDOM, B18 6EW

Does anyone live near there or know anyone who might live near there who might go visit the address?
Has anyone scanned police reports or anything to gather more info?

Is this the same Simon Hausdorf who has a facebook page for a band?
I found an email for him too and wrote to it.
I found a number for him too at this page, if anyone wants to try calling it: http://bitcoin24.zendesk.com/entries/22197853-Payment-with-Credit-Card-Liqpay

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April 13, 2013, 06:06:02 AM
 #17

It is interesting to think about what Simon might be doing while so many people are wishing he would post something on these forums.  If he has been held by police for any reason, that would explain it, but is it common for people in Germany to be held incommunicado?  I know that it's embarrassing to call a friend or family member from the clutches of an authority and try to explain that you have customers who ought to know what's going on.  If that happens, I would be impressed, since what I have gathered from reading posts about bitcoin-24 is that Simon Hausdorf is pretty green.

In my Internet search, I found this address where it says he was born in 1989:
BTC24 LIMITED
69 GREAT HAMPTON STREET, BIRMINGHAM, UNITED KINGDOM, B18 6EW

Does anyone live near there or know anyone who might live near there who might go visit the address?
Has anyone scanned police reports or anything to gather more info?

Is this the same Simon Hausdorf who has a facebook page for a band?
I found an email for him too and wrote to it.
I found a number for him too at this page, if anyone wants to try calling it: http://bitcoin24.zendesk.com/entries/22197853-Payment-with-Credit-Card-Liqpay

Thats the address of the registered office for his limited company, it doesn't mean he is there. I can run a british ltd from a remote island if i wanted! Plus, I don't think paying him a visit is going to help anybody's case.
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April 13, 2013, 06:10:17 AM
 #18

It is interesting to think about what Simon might be doing while so many people are wishing he would post something on these forums.  If he has been held by police for any reason, that would explain it, but is it common for people in Germany to be held incommunicado?
Actually it is, but I don't think that happened to him (yet). But it may happen in the next weeks or months. Maybe they don't arrest him but only search his home. That depends if someone presses charges of fraud and/or money laundry against him.


In my Internet search, I found this address where it says he was born in 1989:
BTC24 LIMITED
69 GREAT HAMPTON STREET, BIRMINGHAM, UNITED KINGDOM, B18 6EW

Does anyone live near there or know anyone who might live near there who might go visit the address?
Has anyone scanned police reports or anything to gather more info?

 Grin This is only a very well known letterbox shell corporation. Google "69 GREAT HAMPTON STREET". Having a company there may be a reason for a search/arrest warrant already  Wink
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April 13, 2013, 08:29:37 AM
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Wow, people actually don't have a clue how __hard__ it is to build an exchange? It's not a matter of fixing the bugs. Have you ever wrote an engine which handles 100 simultaneous requests per second with bi-communication? The guy has worked on a file server before. Look at MtGox. 10 people and they can't get it done. And there is a reason why. This stuff is damn hard. You need worldclass hackers for this, who have worked on matching engines before. And some ventures which are being started right now will fail. All exchanges currently are a joke. You need an extremely good team to get this right, and I doubt Max Keiser will get it done.
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April 13, 2013, 08:34:34 AM
 #20

'continued

.... think about it. The more flow comes it, the harder it will get. One thing to show how hard this is: co-location. Once an BTC hopefully gets a certain size, people will start co-locating. Then you have to deal with the question at what time clients get their requests. Currently the state of the art is in 50 microseconds. I have spoken to a guy who works with AMD to build special processors (FPGA) for this stuff. There are perhaps billions invested in trading FX infrastructure, for an armsrace in this space. Billion $ hedgefunds doing 100 trades /sec, with 50 person teams. Compared to this level, MtGox, B24, BTCe, BTCde are a joke. BTCde doesn't even know that you can virtualize servers and that you need an API. Somebody will enter this game and show MtGox how it should be done.

'continued

.... think about it. The more flow comes it, the harder it will get. One thing to show how hard this is: co-location. Once an BTC hopefully gets a certain size, people will start co-locating. Then you have to deal with the question at what time clients get their requests. Currently the state of the art is in 50 microseconds. I have spoken to a guy who works with AMD to build special processors (FPGA) for this stuff. There are perhaps billions invested in trading FX infrastructure, for an armsrace in this space. Billion $ hedgefunds doing 100 trades /sec, with 50 person teams. Compared to this level, MtGox, B24, BTCe, BTCde are a joke. BTCde doesn't even know that you can virtualize servers and that you need an API. Somebody will enter this game and show MtGox how it should be done.

But for that B24 had a pretty decent front end. I doubt this will get "fixed" in 2 weeks, because it is only a question of time until the next bug. And you can't have bugs like that. Failure is not an option here.
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