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Author Topic: Why mining Coins or buying hardware from China is supporting murderers..  (Read 3821 times)
supermine
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June 15, 2011, 10:11:00 PM
 #1

Foxconn

Clients

Foxconn makes consumer electronics for a number of well-known companies, including:

    Apple Inc. (United States)
    Acer Inc. (Taiwan)
    Amazon.com (United States)
    Asus (Taiwan)
    ASRock (Taiwan)
    Intel (United States)
    Cisco (United States)
    Hewlett-Packard (United States)
    Dell (United States)
    Nintendo (Japan)
    Nokia (Finland)
    Microsoft (United States)
    MSI (Taiwan)
    Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)
    Vizio (United States)

Controversies

Allegations of employee mistreatment

Allegations of employee mistreatment have been made on a number of occasions. News reports highlight the long working hours, discrimination of mainland Chinese workers by their Taiwanese co-workers,  and lack of working relationships at the company.

In 2006 the Daily Mail accused it of abusive employment practices. Although Foxconn was found to be compliant in the majority of areas when Apple audited the maker of its iPods and iPhones,  the audit did substantiate a few of the allegations.
[edit] Suicides
Main article: Foxconn suicides

Sun Danyong, a 25-year-old male, committed suicide in July 2009 after reporting the loss of an iPhone 4 prototype in his possession.

In reaction to a spate of worker suicides where fourteen died in 2010, a report by 20 Chinese universities described Foxconn factories as labour camps and detailed widespread worker abuse and illegal overtime. In response to the suicides, Foxconn installed suicide-prevention netting at some facilities, and it promised to offer substantially higher wages at its Shenzhen production bases.
[edit] Imprisoned Indian workers

In October 2010 over 300 employees of an Indian operation in the Special Economic Zone of Chennai were arrested and jailed by Indian authorities for taking part in a strike.

All but a dozen of the arrested were soon granted bail.[28]
[edit] LCD price fixing

In December 2010 Chimei Innolux, a maker of LCD screens in which Foxconn has 24% ownership,[29] was fined by the EU for price fixing.[30]
[edit] 2011 explosion
Main article: 2011 Chengdu Foxconn explosion incident

On 20 May 2011 an explosion and fire broke out at one of the factory in Chengdu. The incident affected the IPad 2 assembly line and caused deaths and injuries to numerous workers.
[edit] Sacred burial ground

About 200 to 300 years ago, an area where the current Shenzhen factory resides was the home of an estimated 4,000 Hakka families.[31] The land at the time was undeveloped. Peiziyuan (皮仔园) and Ghosthead lake (鬼头潭) is situated in the area.[31] Peiziyuan in particular was a burial ground of more than 1,000 babies.[31] This area continued to be a burial site well into the 1970s after the one-child policy was promoted.[31] Massive numbers of girls were killed in favor of boys, and baby corpses were collected at the site.

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Source: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Foxconn#Controversies

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June 15, 2011, 10:52:54 PM
 #2

So, how could we possibly ensure these people perfect working conditions?
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June 16, 2011, 03:08:01 AM
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So, how could we possibly ensure these people perfect working conditions?

Hire them ourselves.

But for what purpose?

Proposal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11541.msg162881#msg162881
Inception: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/296
Goal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12536.0
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June 16, 2011, 03:23:02 AM
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News reports highlight the long working hours, discrimination of mainland Chinese workers by their Taiwanese co-workers,  and lack of working relationships at the company.

If it's so bad, why don't these people quit? They obviously prefer those conditions over not having a job. What's your solution, to deny them the choice that is rightfully theirs and theirs alone to make? Do you somehow know what's better for them than they do?
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June 16, 2011, 03:33:46 AM
 #5

Every time I see this BS about Foxconn, I am reminded of of this statistic:

Foxconn workers have a LOWER suicide rate than China's national per capita rate.

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June 16, 2011, 04:33:48 AM
 #6

Every time I see this BS about Foxconn, I am reminded of of this statistic:

Foxconn workers have a LOWER suicide rate than China's national per capita rate.

+1

Or point to that telecommunications company at France whose employees sucided a lot too. I guess social-democracy does not work as proven by France...  Roll Eyes
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June 16, 2011, 11:58:49 AM
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News reports highlight the long working hours, discrimination of mainland Chinese workers by their Taiwanese co-workers,  and lack of working relationships at the company.

If it's so bad, why don't these people quit? They obviously prefer those conditions over not having a job. What's your solution, to deny them the choice that is rightfully theirs and theirs alone to make? Do you somehow know what's better for them than they do?


So someone walks up to you on the street.  They put a gun to your head and tell you to bend over so they can ass rape you or they're going to kill you.  I happen to be walking by and carrying myself.  I could cap the guy in the back of the head, but who am I to deny you a choice that's rightfully yours and yours alone to make?  Do I somehow know what's better for you than you do?  Of course not.  So I'll do nothing to assist you.  Enjoy your choice between death and a terrible situation.


OP, you're in Libertarian land.  Corporations, no matter how sinister, can do no wrong here.  Your efforts, however noble, are wasted here.

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June 16, 2011, 12:07:15 PM
 #8

Whilst I completely agree that corporations (including but definitely not limited to Foxconn) do a lot wrong, surely if supporting murder is the ultimate measure of bad, then continuing to use the dollar/euro which has funded the murder of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi, Afghan and now Libyan civilians is a multitude of orders worse.

However you look at it, states have traditionally killed a lot more people than these big bad corporations. The alternative to Bitcoin/supporting murder in this instance is supporting mass murder.

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June 16, 2011, 12:12:37 PM
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Whilst I completely agree that corporations do a lot wrong, surely if supporting murder is the ultimate measure of bad, then continuing to use the dollar/euro which has funded the murder of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi, Afghan and now Libyan civilians is a multitude of orders worse.

Excellent point.  It sounds like you're in touch with reality enough to understand just how deep these problems go.  We're surrounded by exploitation and corruption.  The question is, what do we do about it?  Do we throw our hands up in the air and say we can't do anything or do we attempt to change it (or at least boycott it for our own moral satisfaction) whenever possible?

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June 16, 2011, 12:19:32 PM
 #10

Well, I prefer to boycott the dollar than Bitcoin, but if anyone can make a list of blood-free (or best known blood-free) components we can use, I would probably tend towards using them. I will always support companies which provide good conditions for their workers through my power to do so on the market.

At the end of the day, one of the greatest weaknesses of the free market is said to be that it enables corruption, but one of its' greatest strengths is that we, the consumer, have the right and ability to end that corruption where we see it through peaceful and voluntary boycott.

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June 16, 2011, 12:20:58 PM
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However you look at it, states have traditionally killed a lot more people than these big bad corporations. The alternative to Bitcoin/supporting murder in this instance is supporting mass murder.

Ah, but I was ninja edited...


Who killed those people in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya?  You think the governments killed those people?  Who did the US government invade those countries in the name of and for?




So whose hands is that blood on?

Throughout history, who have governments killed in the name of?  Is not the killing always to make the rich richer and the poor poorer?  Governments in and of themselves have nothing to gain by killing.  It is only when the rich are the government (as in the feudal days) or when the government is an agent of the rich (as in present day) that the government has something to gain will all this killing.

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June 16, 2011, 12:23:12 PM
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At the end of the day, one of the greatest weaknesses of the free market is said to be that it enables corruption, but one of its' greatest strengths is that we, the consumer, have the right and ability to end that corruption where we see it through peaceful and voluntary boycott.

Well that's the theory, at least.  What if there's no alternative?  How does the consumer stop corruption if there isn't a non-corrupt opinion to choose from?

Who do you buy your blood-free gasoline from?

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June 16, 2011, 12:27:23 PM
 #13

I apologise, it wasn't supposed to be a ninja edit, it was supposed to be a clarification.

I don't think the US government dropped nuclear weapons on Hiroshima or Nagasaki in the name of big companies. As much of an issue as the military industrial complex is, it is not the primary reason why governments kill. The ultimate reason why governments have gone to war over the centuries is to expand their own influence and ideals.

Also, even if you were correct, if you tell me to kill somebody and I do it, I'm not innocent. A corrupt government working in the interests of multinational corporations is still a corrupt government. Multinational corporations do not declare their own wars.

There is definitely a marriage of convenience between corrupt corporations and corrupt governments, and it's nothing new (see the East India Trading Company), but the government is a complicit and required part of this agreement.

Well that's the theory, at least.  What if there's no alternative?  How does the consumer stop corruption if there isn't a non-corrupt opinion to choose from?

Who do you buy your blood-free gasoline from?

This is an issue of misinformation. The unfortunate fact of the matter is that the general public either don't know or don't care enough to demand change. Somebody more cynical than myself might propose that this is not an accident, and that governments and corporations have tried to shut our eyes and stupidify us, successfully, I'll just say it's apathy.

I don't actually drive a car at the moment, so I don't buy it at all right now. Wink

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June 16, 2011, 06:00:46 PM
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OP, you're in Libertarian land.  Corporations, no matter how sinister, can do no wrong here.  Your efforts, however noble, are wasted here.

Trolololol

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June 16, 2011, 06:28:29 PM
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So someone walks up to you on the street.  They put a gun to your head and tell you to bend over so they can ass rape you or they're going to kill you.

That's a violation of my rights. I have the right to not be raped, robbed or physically assaulted. I don't have the right to a livable wage.
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June 16, 2011, 09:24:28 PM
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So someone walks up to you on the street.  They put a gun to your head and tell you to bend over so they can ass rape you or they're going to kill you.

That's a violation of my rights. I have the right to not be raped, robbed or physically assaulted. I don't have the right to a livable wage.

Tell that to the guy that's going to rape you. I'm sure he'll stop dead in his tracks.

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June 16, 2011, 09:30:40 PM
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So someone walks up to you on the street.  They put a gun to your head and tell you to bend over so they can ass rape you or they're going to kill you.

That's a violation of my rights. I have the right to not be raped, robbed or physically assaulted. I don't have the right to a livable wage.

Tell that to the guy that's going to rape you. I'm sure he'll stop dead in his tracks.

Yes, he will, when I tell him with MY pistol. You're welcome to help me tell him, if you like.

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June 16, 2011, 09:34:54 PM
 #18




So someone walks up to you on the street.  They put a gun to your head and tell you to bend over so they can ass rape you or they're going to kill you.

That's a violation of my rights. I have the right to not be raped, robbed or physically assaulted. I don't have the right to a livable wage.

Tell that to the guy that's going to rape you. I'm sure he'll stop dead in his tracks.
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
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June 16, 2011, 09:46:55 PM
 #19

I apologise, it wasn't supposed to be a ninja edit, it was supposed to be a clarification.

I don't think the US government dropped nuclear weapons on Hiroshima or Nagasaki in the name of big companies. As much of an issue as the military industrial complex is, it is not the primary reason why governments kill. The ultimate reason why governments have gone to war over the centuries is to expand their own influence and ideals.

Also, even if you were correct, if you tell me to kill somebody and I do it, I'm not innocent. A corrupt government working in the interests of multinational corporations is still a corrupt government. Multinational corporations do not declare their own wars.

There is definitely a marriage of convenience between corrupt corporations and corrupt governments, and it's nothing new (see the East India Trading Company), but the government is a complicit and required part of this agreement.


I agree with all of that and none of it is inconsistent with my point: government is a tool, it is not the root of the problem.

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
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June 16, 2011, 09:57:57 PM
 #20

If Government is a tool, then whose hands is it in?

Please, do enlighten us, what is the root of the problem?

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