Bitcoin Forum
December 05, 2016, 02:36:54 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Why mining Coins or buying hardware from China is supporting murderers..  (Read 3820 times)
AyeYo
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154


View Profile
June 16, 2011, 09:58:25 PM
 #21




So someone walks up to you on the street.  They put a gun to your head and tell you to bend over so they can ass rape you or they're going to kill you.

That's a violation of my rights. I have the right to not be raped, robbed or physically assaulted. I don't have the right to a livable wage.

Tell that to the guy that's going to rape you. I'm sure he'll stop dead in his tracks.
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.


I think this may be of use to you...


Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
1480905414
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480905414

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480905414
Reply with quote  #2

1480905414
Report to moderator
1480905414
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480905414

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480905414
Reply with quote  #2

1480905414
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1480905414
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480905414

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480905414
Reply with quote  #2

1480905414
Report to moderator
1480905414
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480905414

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480905414
Reply with quote  #2

1480905414
Report to moderator
AyeYo
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154


View Profile
June 16, 2011, 10:05:46 PM
 #22

If Government is a tool, then whose hands is it in?

Please, do enlighten us, what is the root of the problem?

Have you not been reading the thread?  The rich control the government - i.e. corporations control the government.  This is nothing new.  It's an evolution of the feudal days during which the rich WERE the government.


So while you sit there and rail against the evils of government, stop for a second and consider who is actually benefiting from those actions.

Libertarians have this hilarious tendancy to talk about government like it is a sentient being or some outside, otherworldly force.  Government is as government does.  It is not inherently good or evil.  It does whatever those controlling it want it to do, and it benefits whoever those people want it to benefit.  It's just a tool.  It's not a being in and of itself, it doesn't have interests, opinions, or biases.

You can remove the tool, but that does not address the one using it.

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
June 16, 2011, 10:12:53 PM
 #23

OK, so your claim is that Corporations control the Government?

Just want to make sure I have your position right.

I will stipulate that 'government' being an organization of individuals, can not, as a whole, have 'interests, opinions, or biases'.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
BombaUcigasa
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414



View Profile
June 16, 2011, 10:14:29 PM
 #24

I have a weird issue with the asian countries culture:
- Japan - highly technological and prosper, people suicide a lot
- China - highly crowded and poor, people suicide a lot

And it's not the kind of suicide where you take a pill, or hang yourself, or get electrocuted, or you get "assisted suicided by the mafia", it's the kind of "let the bodies hit the floor, from 50m above".
AyeYo
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154


View Profile
June 16, 2011, 10:14:56 PM
 #25

OK, so your claim is that Corporations control the Government?


Not really a claim, so much as it is a fact.

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
AyeYo
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154


View Profile
June 16, 2011, 10:16:52 PM
 #26

I have a weird issue with the asian countries culture:
- Japan - highly technological and prosper, people suicide a lot
- China - highly crowded and poor, people suicide a lot

And it's not the kind of suicide where you take a pill, or hang yourself, or get electrocuted, or you get "assisted suicided by the mafia", it's the kind of "let the bodies hit the floor, from 50m above".


Most Asian cultures involve extreme pressure towards excellence, conformity, honor, and teamwork.  It's a very stressful existence, thus the high suicide rates.

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
June 16, 2011, 10:31:50 PM
 #27

OK, so your claim is that Corporations control the Government?


Not really a claim, so much as it is a fact.

OK, so your position is that Corporations are control of the Government.

Are you aware that Corporations are creations of the government, and would not exist without it?

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
AyeYo
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154


View Profile
June 16, 2011, 10:33:47 PM
 #28

OK, so your claim is that Corporations control the Government?


Not really a claim, so much as it is a fact.

OK, so your position is that Corporations are control of the Government.

Are you aware that Corporations are creations of the government, and would not exist without it?


Really?  That's interesting! 

So if we got rid of government then big business would just cease to exist?

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
June 16, 2011, 10:40:23 PM
 #29

Did I say big business?

*reads back a few posts*

Nope, I said 'Corporations'.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
AyeYo
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154


View Profile
June 16, 2011, 10:49:14 PM
 #30

Did I say big business?

*reads back a few posts*

Nope, I said 'Corporations'.

Ah, so you ARE playing the semantics game!  I don't really like this game, it distracts from the arguments are hand.  So I think I'll sit out and you can get back to me when you're done playing.

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
June 16, 2011, 10:58:53 PM
 #31

Did I say big business?

*reads back a few posts*

Nope, I said 'Corporations'.

Ah, so you ARE playing the semantics game!  I don't really like this game, it distracts from the arguments are hand.  So I think I'll sit out and you can get back to me when you're done playing.

No, A corporation is a specific entity, With protections from the government from liability. Remove either government, or just those protections, and it suddenly becomes much easier to bring a wily businessman to task. I don't deny that business will continue without Government. In fact, I contend that it will thrive. I do, however contend that the liability protections that the government currently provides to corporations are the major cause of things like what the OP is whining about.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
AyeYo
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154


View Profile
June 16, 2011, 11:02:03 PM
 #32

Did I say big business?

*reads back a few posts*

Nope, I said 'Corporations'.

Ah, so you ARE playing the semantics game!  I don't really like this game, it distracts from the arguments are hand.  So I think I'll sit out and you can get back to me when you're done playing.

No, A corporation is a specific entity, With protections from the government from liability. Remove either government, or just those protections, and it suddenly becomes much easier to bring a wily businessman to task. I don't deny that business will continue without Government. In fact, I contend that it will thrive. I do, however contend that the liability protections that the government currently provides to corporations are the major cause of things like what the OP is whining about.


Getting back on topic from your irrelevant tangent...


The rich control the government.

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
June 16, 2011, 11:06:41 PM
 #33

But you said that Corporations control the government.

Which is it, Corporations, or 'The Rich'?

If it's the latter, that significantly reduces the subset of people you say are in charge of the government, since not every Monsanto employee is rich.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
AyeYo
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154


View Profile
June 16, 2011, 11:17:10 PM
 #34

But you said that Corporations control the government.

Which is it, Corporations, or 'The Rich'?

If it's the latter, that significantly reduces the subset of people you say are in charge of the government, since not every Monsanto employee is rich.


Actually, I've used them interchangably throughout this thread, because I don't need to play a semantics game to argue my points.  Let me break it down into first grade lingo that you might understand...


Rich people run shit, end of story.  Rich people control the corporations, so saying that corporations control government is the same as saying the rich control government, because the rich control the corporations.  A > B and B > C therefore A > C, it's as simple as that.

Can you hear me now?


Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
Reikoku
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140


firstbits: 1kwc1p


View Profile
June 16, 2011, 11:24:41 PM
 #35

'The government' is not a tool. The government is a group of individuals who may or may not be corrupt (I assume some are and some are not). 'Corporations' are legal fiction. They exist to distance liability from decision makers. They are creations of government and grant legal privelege which is incompatible with the libertarian worldview.

We're not pro-corporatism. I personally have far more issues to pick with corporate law (and corporate welfare) than I do to pick with government, but government still has its own issues.

Rei | 1Kwc1pqv54jCg8jvnm3Gu1dqFQYhS34Bow
Trades So Far: 7
AyeYo
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154


View Profile
June 16, 2011, 11:27:51 PM
 #36

'The government' is not a tool. The government is a group of individuals who may or may not be corrupt (I assume some are and some are not). 'Corporations' are legal fiction. They exist to distance liability from decision makers. They are creations of government and grant legal privelege which is incompatible with the libertarian worldview.

We're not pro-corporatism. I personally have far more issues to pick with corporate law (and corporate welfare) than I do to pick with government, but government still has its own issues.



Can you reconcile those two contradictory statements for me?

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
June 16, 2011, 11:36:31 PM
 #37

Rich people run shit, end of story.

Now we're getting somewhere. You said before that corporations control government. NOW, you're saying that the rich people run the world. These are two totally separate concepts. And you know what? I agree totally with you. The richest people DO have the greatest amount of power.

What you fail to ask, is why?

If you've ever bothered, the answer you came up with is likely, "Because they're Rich."

While this is true, I don't think you see the mechanism by which they do this. Let me break it down for you.

Rich people start business, and incorporate them, under limited liability laws. These laws protect the rich people from the consequences of their corporation's actions.

To prevent other people from doing the same thing, they pay government officials to pass laws to stifle competition in their industry. (these payments are often called 'Campaign contributions')

Both of these actions require one thing: Government. Without the government, there would be no limited liability laws. There would be no barriers to competition. There would be nobody for the rich people to pay off to run things.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
AyeYo
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154


View Profile
June 16, 2011, 11:50:09 PM
 #38

Both of these actions require one thing: Government.


That's where your leap of illogic fails.  Watch:


Guns cause murder.


Bad people get angry, grab a gun, load the gun, find someone to kill, then fire the gun at that person and kill them.


Guns cause murder.  That process requires one thing: a gun.



See how that works?  That's attacking the tool instead of attacking the entity using the tool

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
NghtRppr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476


View Profile
June 16, 2011, 11:56:46 PM
 #39

Tell that to the guy that's going to rape you. I'm sure he'll stop dead in his tracks.

I don't need to. By threatening me with violence I'm within my rights to respond in kind.
Reikoku
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140


firstbits: 1kwc1p


View Profile
June 17, 2011, 12:00:20 AM
 #40

'The government' is not a tool. The government is a group of individuals who may or may not be corrupt (I assume some are and some are not). 'Corporations' are legal fiction. They exist to distance liability from decision makers. They are creations of government and grant legal privelege which is incompatible with the libertarian worldview.

We're not pro-corporatism. I personally have far more issues to pick with corporate law (and corporate welfare) than I do to pick with government, but government still has its own issues.



Can you reconcile those two contradictory statements for me?

People cannot be a tool, there is nothing contradictory here. Tools are inanimate and have no free will, this isn't true of the individuals which make up government, or the individuals which make up corporations.

Rei | 1Kwc1pqv54jCg8jvnm3Gu1dqFQYhS34Bow
Trades So Far: 7
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!