Monero under scrutiny of the FBI

[megges]

...
Might as well ban spoons (because used to make crack/ice), cars (because criminals use them as getaway vehicles), brief cases (as many drug lords and thieves carry drugs and cash in them)....the list goes on.
...

There is a difference, non of these (spoons, cars or brief cases) are promoted in any way that the promoters tell you buy spoons because you can do crack/ice, or buy cars because you can use them as getaway vehicles, or ...

But the monero "community" did some great job in promoting monero, because it's accepted on dark markets and it has now a real value/use case because you can now buy drugs with it.

So from my view thats something different, and thats why your anaology does not fit in here!

[Spoetnik]

@smoothie
That retort is REALLY weak.

Comparing creating a Dark market coin to using the normal Internet ?

..come on   

I think you guys have painted yourselves into a corner by design since day one.

OWN IT !

[generalizethis]

...
Might as well ban spoons (because used to make crack/ice), cars (because criminals use them as getaway vehicles), brief cases (as many drug lords and thieves carry drugs and cash in them)....the list goes on.
...

There is a difference, non of these (spoons, cars or brief cases) are promoted in any way that the promoters tell you buy spoons because you can do crack/ice, or buy cars because you can use them as getaway vehicles, or ...

But the monero "community" did some great job in promoting monero, because it's accepted on dark markets and it has now a real value/use case because you can now buy drugs with it.

So from my view thats something different, and thats why your anaology does not fit in here!

Cash does all those things and drug dealers, hookers and arms dealers all ask for cash and promote it as their preferred method of payment--you can do all kinds of analogy warping to discredit Monero, but there is no central authority making these claims or who worked to get Monero added to Alphabay. No more so than any government worked to get their fiat to be the preferred method of payment for international criminal activities. Cash is used for bad things--end of story. And to think a digital cash won't be used for the same activities is naïve, dumb, or floundering in personal interest.

[Spoetnik]

As soon as i seen Smoothie as the last poster here i clicked..
figuring i'd see the "Like Cash / Fiat" retort.. nope. (he used the internet)

Then.. generalizethis "Mr Fungability" played the retort  

You guys are a broken record skipping on and on..


EDIT:

In other news the Monero dev's dice gambling site he runs was hacked for a fortune people.

Aww poor Monero can't catch a break hahahhah

[flipme]

As soon as i seen Smoothie as the last poster here i clicked..
figuring i'd see the "Like Cash / Fiat" retort.. nope. (he used the internet)

Then.. generalizethis "Mr Fungability" played the retort  

You guys are a broken record skipping on and on..


EDIT:

In other news the Monero dev's dice gambling site he runs was hacked for a fortune people.

Aww poor Monero can't catch a break hahahhah

The point is, the "retort" statement how you call it contradicts and refutes itself.

If the US $ would be such a simple analog, why would there be the need to use a crypto currency in the first place.
Which also refutes your worn out use of the term "fungibility".

It shows that you don't even understand what the term means in an economic context, and that you only use it as a smokescreen.
There are laws for the exchange of value, in fungible ways or not, and your only intent is to evade them.

[Calangaman]

This is one of the reasons why Monero can't be a long-term alternative. Full anonymity will be detrimental to the coin.
Zcash and Zclassic offer both anonymous and transparent transactions.

[Spoetnik]

Many of these guys insist that the purpose of crypto-currencies is to be rebellious and defy law.
I'd say it is more commonly believed than not.
I am not sure Satoshi etc envisioned that agenda.
But the crowd that showed up later sure as hell did / does.

That guy Dinofelis here for example many times has said things like,
The purpose is to topple FIAT and basically "Stick it to the man"
No surprise he has a defensive stance on Monero.

I have no stance either way on it really.

I am not saying go hunt dark market guys etc.
I don't care what they do.. it doesn't interest me in the slightest.

I strive for fairness for all.
I would envision a currency that is fair for all sides legal or not.

A digital currency should not be rigged to violate the rights of potential criminals.
Would you want your FIAT money "colored" tagged so they could track everyone in the hopes of tracking the criminals ?
I'd say NO !

I advocate the right for people to commit crimes.
For example i would not approve of technology that caught users before they committed the crime.
..as seen in movies.

Sure break your laws but i would expect repercussions.

I've never understood why cops try and ban pedo porn on the web.
Let them post it.
..it would make it 100000x easier to catch them all and arrest them ROFL

Make a coin to circumvent AML or TAX law etc then you will HAVE to suffer the consequences.. as the laws says right now !

Do Crypto users think a coin was going to be created that circumvents any and all financial law forever ?
Was this what you were all thinking in this scene all along ?

I don't think most of you gave it any thought.. aside from how much BTC/FIAT will XYZ shitcoin make me ?

Maybe you all should give some thought to the direction your machine you crated here is traveling ?

[smoothie]

...
Might as well ban spoons (because used to make crack/ice), cars (because criminals use them as getaway vehicles), brief cases (as many drug lords and thieves carry drugs and cash in them)....the list goes on.
...

There is a difference, non of these (spoons, cars or brief cases) are promoted in any way that the promoters tell you buy spoons because you can do crack/ice, or buy cars because you can use them as getaway vehicles, or ...

But the monero "community" did some great job in promoting monero, because it's accepted on dark markets and it has now a real value/use case because you can now buy drugs with it.

So from my view thats something different, and thats why your anaology does not fit in here!

People talking/discussing about ways to use Monero that may or may not be illegal (depending upon your jurisdiction) is not exactly promotion.

Just because people find a new way to use something (for "bad" or "good") and talk/discuss it, does not equal promotion. You could say it is an idea whose time has come.

People in dark circles back in the day I'm sure spoke about how cars would be a great way to be used as a getaway when committing a robbery. Just because you didn't hear that conversation doesn't mean it doesn't also align with your definition of "promotion". I'm pretty sure there was inner circles of thieves and drug lords who spoke about this new thing called an "automobile" to their other criminal friends plotting crimes. Was that promotion as well?

If people realizing the use case for SOMETHING, pick anything, and using it for that specific purpose, that isn't promotion.

Your idea that the monero "community" (which no one can pin point) promoted monero as such is pretty flimsy.

Your argument is a strawman argument. Demonizing things that have "promotion" and ignoring all of the other items and inventions in this world that are also used by criminals just because they don't fit your definition of the word "promotion" is ignorant.

As previously mentioned, I do not condone illegal usage of Monero, but people are going to do what they are doing to do with new technology that exists.

Edit: So what you are saying is that if someone says "Hey I think people should start using spoons to create crack/ice" that that would be considered promotion and thus making it a target for people to demonize. These discussions of illegal acts associated with spoons, cars, and briefcases, has happened, you just probably didn't hear them.

Think about what you are saying as your argument is quite flimsy.

[generalizethis]

As soon as i seen Smoothie as the last poster here i clicked..
figuring i'd see the "Like Cash / Fiat" retort.. nope. (he used the internet)

Then.. generalizethis "Mr Fungability" played the retort  

You guys are a broken record skipping on and on..


EDIT:

In other news the Monero dev's dice gambling site he runs was hacked for a fortune people.

Aww poor Monero can't catch a break hahahhah

The point is, the "retort" statement how you call it contradicts and refutes itself.

If the US $ would be such a simple analog, why would there be the need to use a crypto currency in the first place.
Which also refutes your worn out use of the term "fungibility".

It shows that you don't even understand what the term means in an economic context, and that you only use it as a smokescreen.
There are laws for the exchange of value, in fungible ways or not, and your only intent is to evade them.

HUH? You need cc because you can't convert cash digitally.

You are making the classic mistake of viewing fungibility as binary--some things can be more fungible than others in the economic sense and asking the tptb to create them or for digital cash to be moral is an epic fail on your part as it misses that a cc as fungible as cash is supposed to be  (non-digital of course--absurd i have to make that point, but whatever) it has to be able to be exchanged on any exchange without the exchange blocking it (as was the case with BTCe and the Evolution scammers)--as long as 1 xmr = 1 xmr anywhere, it is as fungible as cash is on the street (barring the use of the view key to link yourself to a crime as would a cash wielding criminal with blood stains on his money--though having to explain that level of stupidity as an edge case is a homage to your level of understanding of what a digital cash should, can, and must do). Good luck, dude--my guess is your portfolio and politics are a mirror of your ignorance of all things crypto.

[smoothie]

As soon as i seen Smoothie as the last poster here i clicked..
figuring i'd see the "Like Cash / Fiat" retort.. nope. (he used the internet)

Then.. generalizethis "Mr Fungability" played the retort  

You guys are a broken record skipping on and on..


EDIT:

In other news the Monero dev's dice gambling site he runs was hacked for a fortune people.

Aww poor Monero can't catch a break hahahhah

So should you be demonized because you are using the internet, the same technology that cyber criminals use to carry out their illegal acts?

By the logic being spoken in this thread, that is what it is starting to sound like.

[Spoetnik]

I am not buying it.. that is weak shit guys.
By all means i will try and bow out and let all these other guys respond to you 2 shill's.
Step up people.. do you buy this shit they keep posting here ?

Why are you all silent ?

All i see is really weak defense retorts and projecting etc.
You chant "Cult" and then use misdirection pointing the finger at DASH.
When it is YOU GUYS that have the fucking cult !

Lucky for you guys you can spin bullshit galore.. the crowd here doesn't care.
They care about ROI'z.. not failed ideological views.
..or poorly thought out analogies. 

[flipme]

As soon as i seen Smoothie as the last poster here i clicked..
figuring i'd see the "Like Cash / Fiat" retort.. nope. (he used the internet)

Then.. generalizethis "Mr Fungability" played the retort  

You guys are a broken record skipping on and on..


EDIT:

In other news the Monero dev's dice gambling site he runs was hacked for a fortune people.

Aww poor Monero can't catch a break hahahhah

The point is, the "retort" statement how you call it contradicts and refutes itself.

If the US $ would be such a simple analog, why would there be the need to use a crypto currency in the first place.
Which also refutes your worn out use of the term "fungibility".

It shows that you don't even understand what the term means in an economic context, and that you only use it as a smokescreen.
There are laws for the exchange of value, in fungible ways or not, and your only intent is to evade them.

HUH? You need cc because you can't convert cash digitally.

You are making the classic mistake of viewing fungibility as binary--some things can be more fungible than others in the economic sense and asking the tptb to create them or for digital cash to be moral is an epic fail on your part as it misses that a cc as fungible as cash is supposed to be  (non-digital of course--absurd i have to make that point, but whatever) it has to be able to be exchanged on any exchange without the exchange blocking it (as was the case with BTCe and the Evolution scammers)--as long as 1 xmr = 1 xmr anywhere, it is as fungible as cash is on the street (barring the use of the view key to link yourself to a crime as would a cash wielding criminal with blood stains on his money--though having to explain that level of stupidity as an edge case is a homage to your level of understanding of what a digital cash should, can, and must do). Good luck, dude--my guess is your portfolio and politics are a mirror of your ignorance of all things crypto.

You're missing the point, again.
This thread is not about fungibility, its about criminal intent, the law, the society we all live in.
You're using the term as a smokescreen to distract from the fact, all the time.

Do you understand that?

[generalizethis]

As soon as i seen Smoothie as the last poster here i clicked..
figuring i'd see the "Like Cash / Fiat" retort.. nope. (he used the internet)

Then.. generalizethis "Mr Fungability" played the retort  

You guys are a broken record skipping on and on..


EDIT:

In other news the Monero dev's dice gambling site he runs was hacked for a fortune people.

Aww poor Monero can't catch a break hahahhah

The point is, the "retort" statement how you call it contradicts and refutes itself.

If the US $ would be such a simple analog, why would there be the need to use a crypto currency in the first place.
Which also refutes your worn out use of the term "fungibility".

It shows that you don't even understand what the term means in an economic context, and that you only use it as a smokescreen.
There are laws for the exchange of value, in fungible ways or not, and your only intent is to evade them.

HUH? You need cc because you can't convert cash digitally.

You are making the classic mistake of viewing fungibility as binary--some things can be more fungible than others in the economic sense and asking the tptb to create them or for digital cash to be moral is an epic fail on your part as it misses that a cc as fungible as cash is supposed to be  (non-digital of course--absurd i have to make that point, but whatever) it has to be able to be exchanged on any exchange without the exchange blocking it (as was the case with BTCe and the Evolution scammers)--as long as 1 xmr = 1 xmr anywhere, it is as fungible as cash is on the street (barring the use of the view key to link yourself to a crime as would a cash wielding criminal with blood stains on his money--though having to explain that level of stupidity as an edge case is a homage to your level of understanding of what a digital cash should, can, and must do). Good luck, dude--my guess is your portfolio and politics are a mirror of your ignorance of all things crypto.

You're missing the point, again.
This thread is not about fungibility, its about criminal intent, the law, the society we all live in.
You're using the term as a smokescreen to distract from the fact, all the time.

Do you understand that?

You understand that the FBI's scrutiny isn't Moneo per se, but all darkmarket activity, BTC, LTC, XMR and whatever coins gain traction in the future? So singling Monero out and implying all Monero transactions are being scrutinized is jumping to a conclusion--and one you should also jump to with clear chains such as LTC and BTC, which are listed in the article, along with XMR.

I was replying to a specific comment made by neither you or sputz, so building off of that is as much off topic as anything, so there's that too.

Here's that actual comments by the FBI that the OP is trying to spin into doom and gloom--though I view it as validating Monero's cashlike qualities--fungibility included.

This isn't a Monero thing, it's a use thing.

Quoting the article no one has seemed to read (at least not very well):

"Since 2013, the agency has seen "enormous growth" in the number of cases involving digital currency payments, according to Battaglia. Of those, 75% involved bitcoin, he said, though he mentioned litecoin and monero as other cryptocurrencies the agency has encountered thus far."

and

"Following the event, the special agent said he couldn't provide additional details specifically pertaining to the FBI’s investigative techniques surrounding monero when asked by CoinDesk.

During the panel, however, Battaglia described the FBI as "a reactionary organization", adding that, instead of trying to predict the direction that cryptocurrency use might go, the agency has adopted a wait-and-see approach.

Battaglia concluded:

"We’re going to look at what catches on, and what becomes mainstream, and then we’re going to keep an eye on that, because usually not long after that is when you start to see some of the fraud and some of the more nefarious uses of that technology."

I guess reading the words right there in front of you (and understanding what they mean) is a little too much for some.

[toknormal]

Why did Satoshi leave encryption out of bitcoin ?

Because its entire protocol is based on signatures, a technology that's concerned with authentication - the opposite of "hiding" which is what encryption does.

So shoving a thick layer of encryption on top of all that good work is like entombing a well nurtured garden so it can't be seen, heard or smelled. Then you need to "invent" some other way of supporting monetary authenticity when you already had a perfectly good one and before you know it you have two objectives fighting each other for priority.

Now real world examples are starting to appear of how it all goes wrong and how this is a flawed monetary design in the first place for anything other than an encrypted payment rail for proprietary services or one-time laundering.



If you're trying to create nothing more than a gated "cult" economy that's proprietary to those who hold private keys, this is the way to do it. Thing is though, far from protecting people from the likes of the prying FBI you're just making it easy for them because all they have to do is police the gates

[royalfestus]

Not surprising at all, but what does their scrutiny mean anyway?  There are hundreds of other coins on the market,  too, and it's not like the FBI can shut any of them down.

i think this is all part of the FBI's ongoing battle against darknet markets and since Monero has such direct links to it,
it has become a target now.

It could also be an indication on how the FBI can adapt their strategy with regards to cryptocurrencies when needed.

The news on the severity of the anonymity will send messages to criminal who had not heard it,on how useful it can be to them, to criminals familiar with it, to be careful of using it. The biggest problem any cryptocurrency can have, is be fought by US govt. If it goes beyond this and they find it hard to break the anonymity, there will be problem, but if they can trace it they will trace transaction quietly

[Nathan047]

To think I almost bought some Monero the other day. I wonder if this is going to hurt the price of Monero?

[jjacob]

To think I almost bought some Monero the other day. I wonder if this is going to hurt the price of Monero?

The price of altcoins is not affected a lot by such news. If anything, Monero could earn notoriety and its price could go up after such news.
Bitcoin has been under scrutiny for long, but it is doing pretty well today. 

[Spoetnik]

To think I almost bought some Monero the other day. I wonder if this is going to hurt the price of Monero?

The price of altcoins is not affected a lot by such news. If anything, Monero could earn notoriety and its price could go up after such news.
Bitcoin has been under scrutiny for long, but it is doing pretty well today. 

Monero is not BITCOIN.

Monero is an "Altcoin" 

[Spoetnik]

Comedy fucking GOLD right here !

It would be interesting to know if this was a custom API or a public one, meaning that maybe other sites are affected and their owners could use this news to protect their sites too.
Of course patching your own is top priority.

Custom API, so I don't think this affects anyone else. We've disabled betting in the meantime whilst we sort this out, but I really think the lesson to other operators is not to be overconfident in your code or in your setup. Everything can and will be compromised, so assume it's going to happen and put safeguards in place to handle that eventual scenario.

[loserkids]

I tried to withdraw Monero from Bitfinex and after 20 hours they cancelled my request. Thinking something went wrong I tried it again and got my account on withdrawal hold a few hours after.

Not sure what's going on but I wouldn't be surprised it has something to do with the FBI thing.

I will update you when/if the support gets back to me. I have $xxxx stuck there (I'm lucky I got 1BTC out of there just hours before the account was put on hold).