Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[DaRude]

The tulip mania inflated in what fiat currency?

How many people are using that currency today?

How many people are buying tulips today?

Hmm, would be interesting to see the prices for tulips at the peak in current currency adjusted for inflation. Betting it'd be something like a fraction of a cent per tulip, you'd be better off buying a tulip at a peak vs holding fiat for all these years. Can someone maths this?

[BitcoinBunny]

I've never understood the intrinsic value argument against Bitcoin.

People will pay whatever they want to pay for something that is scarce and desirable such as BTC.
Whether it's a painting some Italian dude made centuries ago or a painting done by some modern day clown who supplies it with an automated shredder that only half worked.

Can you "picture" the Mona Lisa go back to zero bucks, ever? Maybe if you burn it it might lose some value. Even then the ashes would still be worth millions I reckon.

Let's take my favourite subject outside of BTC for example; whores.
I can pay a local whore in my country about $150 for an hour whilst the value given could be far better and memorable than a session from the number one popular whore in the world which will cost about 10 times as much.
10 sessions with a local top notch whore seems better value to me personally but for others they will want the number one popular whore in the world.

The intrinsic value argument is just a pile of pish if you ask me.

[Richy_T]

Common ECB, get with it, no intrinsic value is a feature not a handicap you fools. Besides, the tulip spiel is ridiculously tired, try again. 

@FrankElderson
: Tulips are beautiful flowers. For those who remember 17th century Tulip Mania, they also serve as a reminder of what can happen when prices don’t reflect intrinsic value #AskECB

https://twitter.com/ecb/status/1371856153370574854?s=20

There's no such thing as intrinsic value anyway. All value is subjective.

[nullius]

The tulip mania inflated in what fiat currency?

None.  Fiat currency in the modern sense (debt-backed shitcoins) had not yet been invented.

The relevant currency was Dutch guilders (gulden, symbol ƒ in reference to the old florin).  But buyers oftentimes bartered huge amounts of other goods for tulip bulbs, with the trades denominated in ƒ as a unit of account.  Imagine the equivalent of a truckload of everything from fine food to clothing to silverware (in the pre-industrial era!) being traded for one tulip bulb.

How many people are using that currency today?

None.  The Netherlands switched to the Euro in 2002—and the “guilder” that it switched from was not the guilder of the tulip mania time, just as the dollar today is an awful lot different than the currencies of the past.

How many people are buying tulips today?

Many.  But not in exchange for truckloads of goods.

Hmm, would be interesting to see the prices for tulips at the peak in current currency adjusted for inflation. Betting it'd be something like a fraction of a cent per tulip, you'd be better off buying a tulip at a peak vs holding fiat for all these years. Can someone maths this?

Contrary to both of your assumptions, the mainstream economic system has not always been this bad.  If it had been, then long ago, civilization would have collapsed; and humans probably would have gone extinct from self-inflicted mass-catastrophe (war, famine, failure to reproduce at replacement level...).

[Richy_T]

Looked? I'm sure he must be blind too.

[strawbs]

I have the WO saved as a bookmark, but one which always takes me back to page 673 (and I leave it that way just for old times sake). But today I noticed that the post which is normally at the top of that page has gone and can now be found much earlier, suggesting that someone has been deleting some pre−June 2013 posts.

Wondering why. Perhaps for OpSec? Perhaps there was another deletion event à la Boblaw? Perhaps it's not even noteworthy.

[BitcoinBunny]

I have the WO saved as a bookmark, but one which always takes me back to page 673 (and I leave it that way just for old times sake). But today I noticed that the post which is normally at the top of that page has gone and can now be found much earlier, suggesting that someone has been deleting some pre−June 2013 posts.

Wondering why. Perhaps for OpSec? Perhaps there was another deletion event à la Boblaw? Perhaps it's not even noteworthy.

From what I can see you can delete your own old posts from years ago just fine which would explain it.

[nullius]

There's no such thing as intrinsic value anyway. All value is subjective.

I've never understood the intrinsic value argument against Bitcoin.

You can’t eat a bitcoin.  Etc.

But all of the same applies to the Euro.

Furthermore, Bitcoin does have an intrinsic value:  The ability to transact securely, permissionlessly, almost frictionlessly, moving money around the world with the click of a button.  It is an intangible value, but it is a value that is intrinsic to the nature of Bitcoin itself.  That drives its value as social money.  € and $ don’t have this value.

Let's take my favourite subject outside of BTC for example; whores.
I can pay a local whore in my country about $150 for an hour

If you hired that whore for an hour in 2011 (say, $5/BTC), and she held (or used your dollars to buy bitcoins, then held), then her bodily investment in that hour would now be worth about $1.7 million.

Who the fuck is she, to make so much money in an hour (plus ten years of holding)?  Phryne?

* nullius would pay good BTC for some time with Phryne.

[strawbs]

The intrinsic value argument is just a pile of pish if you ask me.

You must have some tartan roots BitcoinBunny to be using that phrase? 

[JayJuanGee]

Hmmmm consolidation for more than 2 weeks,  break up 52.5K$ 55K$ 58.5$ and went above 60K$ and 50K€ to go back like this... Strange move.

I doubt that it is very accurate to refer to recent BTC price movement, including in the past two weeks as a kind of consolidation.

You seem to be getting your term wrong or something.

2 or 3 days ago.. we had a movement of BTC's all time high from $58.3k-ish to $61,782 (6% increase of the ATH), and then we had some backing off of the ATH to sink as low as $53,221 (which would be about in the ballpark of a 15% correction) - about one day ago (at the time of this post) and now in the past day we have movement back up and we are about in the $55555 to $56k territory.. but still hardly consolidation when the BTC price is bouncing at the top of the price range.. so sure, the situation could convert into consolidation.. but gosh that usually does not happen at the top of the range, we would likely need a correction that goes in the 15% to 25% or possibly even greater and then maybe bounce back and perhaps we might get some consolidation at that point.

Anyhow it seems to me that zooming out should be in order instead of trying to assert current consolidation and even worse consolidation for two weeks when in the past couple of days we had around a 6% increase in the ATH from its previous ATH...

Do we have too many folks looking at 1 minute, 3 minute and 5 minute candles around these here parts.. and gosh bare minimum of 12 hour candles no?   maybe better to use daily, 3 days or weekly candles to get a better grasp of the situation, no?

As a mostly layman when it comes to maths (and sciences) funzies, could it be that one of the goals of continuing to attempt to calculate pi to further digits is to see if there might be a zero in there somewhere (I mean a last digit)? - and then we know how many actual digits pi has, rather than what seems to be an infinite number of digits without a last digit.  

We already know the answer to this: Pi has an infinite number of digits (i.e., there is no "last digit"). This is because Pi is an irrational number (it cannot be expressed as the ratio of two integers). Proof of this dates back to the 18th century (Lambert, 1761). The square root of 2 (1.414...) is another well-known irrational number.

We all (except Jay) know that π is an irrational sonofabitch; but is he normal?  

* Wrathful nullius is the negative one, because ’e is powered to imaginary·π.

Yes, I just implied that 0 = -1.  Well, that’s not as bad as looking for the last digit of π.

I presume you're referring to Pi and not Jay.

Now, that's a challenge. I would bet that Pi is normal, but that statement is worthless...

Funny thing is that I was confused by the same thing when I read that nullius sentence, but I did not want to say anything to cause my lil selfie to appear MOAR dummer than I actually am, and that's why from time to time I present "deeper ideas" in "baby talk."

 

[BitcoinBunny]

If you hired that whore for an hour in 2011 (say, $5/BTC), and she held (or used your dollars to buy bitcoins, then held), then her bodily investment in that hour would now be worth about $1.7 million.

Who the fuck is she, to make so much money in an hour (plus ten years of holding)?  Phryne?

20 years ago that may have been The Corrs sisters, maybe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVqrtTJgJJI

[jojo69]

How many people are buying tulips today?

https://tulipfestival.org/

[nanobtc]

<snippage>

Just a flesh wound! My first thought was of those Japanese holdout soldier still fighting years after the war has ended https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teruo_Nakamura

Gilligan's Island (USA sitcom in the 70's) had an episode where they found a Japanese solder on their island, that was still fighting WWII.

[JayJuanGee]

All that being said, I am even worse off:  I didn’t buy Bitcoin at $0.06.  (And I didn’t CPU-mine back in 2009, damn it.)

Neither did most of the folks reading this.

In hindsight, Schoen made a stupid sale.  But he made a smart buy.  Did you?

Food for thought.

Well, I think I did. The difference between him and most of us, is that we knew what we were doing (or at least believed in it), while he didn't. If he did, he wouldn't have sold so early, and for such an insignificant total amount. In the end, it's not the relative gain that matters, but the absolute final value of one's wealth. It's much better to invest $50,000 and end up with $1M (20x), than to invest $1 and end up with $1000 (1000x).

Actually, that is quite true, AlcoHODL... i have seen quite a few examples of peeps who fail/refuse to take any kind of meaningful stake in bitcoin, but they may have had experienced some actual BTC price moves that cause their BTC investment to have significant percentage profits and even profits that are much better than some people (like yours truly) who had been buying and buying and buying, and ending up causing myself much higher prices than if I had attempted to lump sum into BTC. .and also buy starting to buy when I first heard about bitcoin rather that waiting for a dip that from my perspective may or may not happen (but ended up happening).

Having said that, I also regret not buying Bitcoin at $0.06, and not mining it in the early days. I guess I did not know about it enough at that time, to realise its potential. Funny thing is, I hated the word "Bitcoin" when I first heard it, but now I find it one of the most beautiful-sounding words in any language!

I have not experienced any of those kinds of regrets or lovenings... but that's just me, and perhaps a lack of programming in that direction.  

Would someone who is sufficiently retarded to use Twitter please go necro-bump this thread, or however it works there?

It seems that this thread hasn’t gotten any love since the start of the bear market in January of 2018.

N.b. that if he had held, he would have reached 1,000,000x gains at $60,000.  (100,000,000% ROI at $60,000.06.)  But the bubble has burst, and now he would be down to about 909,000x gains.  Bitcoin is dead, etc., etc.

https://twitter.com/GregSchoen/status/70261648811761665

https://twitter.com/GregSchoen/status/1036345830599479296?s=20

Who would've thunk that the guy converted into a shitcoiner.

There is some kind of "natural" progression into shitcoinery when selling too much BTC too early and not committing to get back into bitcoin within a relatively soon period of time (and/or admitting that you fucked up)... so yeah, those kind of nocoiner shitcoiners become smarter than everyone else and buy crap.. out of hope/prayer that they are going to beat bitcoin returns.. .. dumb fucks.

before that tell me if Pi is he or she?

If there were ever a time to use "they", maybe this would be it?

[shahzadafzal]

I've never understood the intrinsic value argument against Bitcoin.

People will pay whatever they want to pay for something that is scarce and desirable such as BTC.
Whether it's a painting some Italian dude made centuries ago or a painting done by some modern day clown who supplies it with an automated shredder that only half worked.

Can you "picture" the Mona Lisa go back to zero bucks, ever? Maybe if you burn it it might lose some value. Even then the ashes would still be worth millions I reckon.

Let's take my favourite subject outside of BTC for example; whores.
I can pay a local whore in my country about $150 for an hour whilst the value given could be far better and memorable than a session from the number one popular whore in the world which will cost about 10 times as much.
10 sessions with a local top notch whore seems better value to me personally but for others they will want the number one popular whore in the world.

The intrinsic value argument is just a pile of pish if you ask me.

[shahzadafzal]

I have the WO saved as a bookmark, but one which always takes me back to page 673 (and I leave it that way just for old times sake). But today I noticed that the post which is normally at the top of that page has gone and can now be found much earlier, suggesting that someone has been deleting some pre−June 2013 posts.

Wondering why. Perhaps for OpSec? Perhaps there was another deletion event à la Boblaw? Perhaps it's not even noteworthy.

Wow just noticed to go back to page 673 you have to click 16 times, just to reach page 673

Call it a coincidence on Page 673 discussion is about "intrinsic value of BTC" and today on page 28454 after 8 years... discussion is again about intrinsic value of BTC

Anyway, the thing that is keeping things going is that people believe in the money. Money is essentially faith, we are seeing that with BTC. Intriniscally it has value for a few reasons, most notably its cryptographic security imo. Once people stop believing in the dollar, once they can't keep printing dollars to make the stock market go up (e.g. - worsening economy, rates that need to rise) = POP goes the weasel.

Wondering why. Perhaps for OpSec? Perhaps there was another deletion event à la Boblaw? Perhaps it's not even noteworthy.

Haven't seen this number changed for quite some time, 157 posts deleted, so i think no

Code:

This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (157 posts by 13 users deleted.)

[BobLawblaw]

Have orders all the way down to $51,500. First order just got filled @ $55,500.

[shahzadafzal]

Editing a post size will also do this.

Nope, It won't... there's always 20 posts per page and size of the post doesn't matter.

[Hueristic]

Editing a post size will also do this.

Nope, It won't... there's always 20 posts per page and size of the post doesn't matter.

Ohh shit, wrong board duh, Weird

[Richy_T]

You can’t eat a bitcoin.  Etc.

But all of the same applies to the Euro.

It also applies to a peanut-butter sandwich if you have a peanut allergy.

Furthermore, Bitcoin does have an intrinsic value:  The ability to transact securely, permissionlessly, almost frictionlessly, moving money around the world with the click of a button.  It is an intangible value, but it is a value that is intrinsic to the nature of Bitcoin itself.  That drives its value as social money.  € and $ don’t have this value.

That's an intrinsic property. That has value to many of us in the modern world but it's not intrinsic value.