Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Sitarow]

Wow, so you mean that the part that says " bitcoin trading volume" might be about the bitcoin trading volume instead of e-payments.   Shocker !  What a masterpiece of misinformation....

Yes, that is a good example of how you can lie (= "intentionally lead people to believe in something that you don't believe") by telling the truth.

What would a casual reader understand by "trading volume"?

Also, companies that "accept bitcoins" do in fact accept bitcoin. They might not hold the bitcoins, and convert them to fiat, but they do accept them.

Bitpay gives merchants the option to actually receive the bitcoins, but the big companies listed there surely opt to receive dollars (for practical as well as financial reasons).  The conversion to dollars is done by BitPay, not by the companies.

You do realize this applies to all currencies? YEN, CNY, CAD

Just wanted to add.

If your a miner and mine BTC then effectively your exporting BTC. Places with currency that is below the value of USD benefit from a strong USD currency as their overhead is payed in their lower denominated currency.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

When you said "purchase everyday things," I didn't realize you meant meth and child porn.  I stand corrected
As far as less shady stuff?  Those merchants accept dollars, not BTC.  That's why the BTC price is calculated for you at the moment of purchase from the real price.

I did mean everyday things. You said illegal items. I asked for proof. Non provided. Whatever, I'm off to do other things. Have a good day!

When was the last time you bought milk, butter or gas with bitcoin?  And I don't mean through a payment processor.

I know those coins get converted to fiat, but how is using a payment processor not 'using bitcoin to purchase things' ?  
Pretty weak comeback NLC, I expect higher quality trolling from you.

Because you're using dollar or pound  or euro  to buy things.  That's why those things are priced in dollar  or euro  or pound, and BTC price is calculated at the exact moment you initiate the transaction.
If you enjoy the game of buying BTC with your money (paying a fee for the privilege), handing that BTC to a payment processor (which also profits from the deal because not charity), which, in turn, converts BTC to real money & pays the merchant you transact with, so that you can risk your money yet again on some shady exchange while BTC price pogoes around like it does ...breathe... you be my guest, but don't expect me to take your game seriously

No, I am using bitcoin to buy stuff that has a fixed price in fiat.  Of course the exchange fees don't make this a consumer friendly option yet for most use cases.  At the moment bitcoin enthusiasts are sponsoring exchanges and payment processors in order to make orders with bitcoin.  But we are still in the bootstrapping phase, not at an end equilibrium.  If I would be able to use my bitcoins almost anywhere, it removes an argument for not holding bitcoins ("can't spend them anywhere") and use cases where it might be desirable will start popping up.  eg.  going abroad and not having to exchange your fiat currencies.  The current volatility would still stop most people from doing that, but if the fees for acquiring bitcoins are lower than fees for converting fiat money, the expected value is positive.

[NotLambchop]

...
Also, companies that "accept bitcoins" do in fact accept bitcoin. They might not hold the bitcoins, and convert them to fiat, but they do accept them.

No.  They accept USD.  Their payment processor accepts BTC.  They do not.  They do not exchange it into USD  Their payment processor does.  They do not.  They never touch BTC .  Not at all.  How many times & in how many different phrasings must it be said to be understood? Why are such simple things so difficult for some here to grasp?

they don't accept YEN, CAD, CNY neither do they?

Edit: I don't mean to focus on your flawed perspective so I will let up.

In Japan they accept Yen.  In Canada they accept CAD, in China they accept CNY.  Just how clueless r u bro?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

...
Also, companies that "accept bitcoins" do in fact accept bitcoin. They might not hold the bitcoins, and convert them to fiat, but they do accept them.

No.  They accept USD.  Their payment processor accepts BTC.  They do not.  They do not exchange it into USD  Their payment processor does.  They do not.  They never touch BTC .  Not at all.  How many times & in how many different phrasings must it be said to be understood? Why are such simple things so difficult for some here to grasp?

@Sitarow:  You're being retarded.  Stop being retarded, Sitarow.

I just laughed out loud tho No offence to anyone

[NotHatinJustTrollin]

One of the many bitcoin paradoxes:


If the amount of money dumped spent with merchants through Bitpay is insignificant, that means that very few people are using bitcoin to buy stuff that is not drugz or child pr0nz with bitcoin on the deep web -> there is no real "adoption" (as a currency).
If that amount is significant, add that the the daily sell pressure on the price, as if demand is not low enough  

[Sitarow]

...
Also, companies that "accept bitcoins" do in fact accept bitcoin. They might not hold the bitcoins, and convert them to fiat, but they do accept them.

No.  They accept USD.  Their payment processor accepts BTC.  They do not.  They do not exchange it into USD  Their payment processor does.  They do not.  They never touch BTC .  Not at all.  How many times & in how many different phrasings must it be said to be understood? Why are such simple things so difficult for some here to grasp?

they don't accept YEN, CAD, CNY neither do they?

Edit: I don't mean to focus on your flawed perspective so I will let up.

In Japan they accept Yen.  In Canada they accept CAD, in China they accept CNY.  Just how clueless r u bro?

I take it your from the states You should try ordering stuff from Amazon.com and see what currency its priced at. If you use paypal they will give you the choice to have them exchange to USD.

[fonzie]

One of the many bitcoin paradoxes:


If the amount of money dumped spent with merchants through Bitpay is insignificant, that means that very few people are using bitcoin to buy stuff that is not drugz or child pr0nz with bitcoin on the deep web -> there is no real "adoption".
If that amount is significant, add that the the daily sell pressure on the price, as if demand is not low enough  

  checkmate

[Spaceman_Spiff]

...
Also, companies that "accept bitcoins" do in fact accept bitcoin. They might not hold the bitcoins, and convert them to fiat, but they do accept them.

No.  They accept USD.  Their payment processor accepts BTC.  They do not.  They do not exchange it into USD  Their payment processor does.  They do not.  They never touch BTC .  Not at all.  How many times & in how many different phrasings must it be said to be understood? Why are such simple things so difficult for some here to grasp?

they don't accept YEN, CAD, CNY neither do they?

Edit: I don't mean to focus on your flawed perspective so I will let up.

In Japan they accept Yen.  In Canada they accept CAD, in China they accept CNY.  Just how clueless r u bro?

Shit dude, how long are we going to be nitpicking over the fact that you pay for stuff from these companies using bitcoin, even if those bitcoins get converted to fiat.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[NotHatinJustTrollin]

One of the many bitcoin paradoxes:


If the amount of money dumped spent with merchants through Bitpay is insignificant, that means that very few people are using bitcoin to buy stuff that is not drugz or child pr0nz with bitcoin on the deep web -> there is no real "adoption".
If that amount is significant, add that the the daily sell pressure on the price, as if demand is not low enough  

  checkmate

One of the many amazing aspects of bitcoin FUNDAMENTALZZZ!!11

 

[Sitarow]

[NotLambchop]

When you said "purchase everyday things," I didn't realize you meant meth and child porn.  I stand corrected
As far as less shady stuff?  Those merchants accept dollars, not BTC.  That's why the BTC price is calculated for you at the moment of purchase from the real price.

I did mean everyday things. You said illegal items. I asked for proof. Non provided. Whatever, I'm off to do other things. Have a good day!

When was the last time you bought milk, butter or gas with bitcoin?  And I don't mean through a payment processor.

I know those coins get converted to fiat, but how is using a payment processor not 'using bitcoin to purchase things' ?  
Pretty weak comeback NLC, I expect higher quality trolling from you.

Because you're using dollar or pound  or euro  to buy things.  That's why those things are priced in dollar  or euro  or pound, and BTC price is calculated at the exact moment you initiate the transaction.
If you enjoy the game of buying BTC with your money (paying a fee for the privilege), handing that BTC to a payment processor (which also profits from the deal because not charity), which, in turn, converts BTC to real money & pays the merchant you transact with, so that you can risk your money yet again on some shady exchange while BTC price pogoes around like it does ...breathe... you be my guest, but don't expect me to take your game seriously

No, I am using bitcoin to buy stuff that has a fixed price in fiat.  Of course the exchange fees don't make this a consumer friendly option yet for most use cases.  At the moment bitcoin enthusiasts are sponsoring exchanges and payment processors in order to make orders with bitcoin.  But we are still in the bootstrapping phase, not at an end equilibrium.  If I would be able to use my bitcoins almost anywhere, it removes an argument for not holding bitcoins ("can't spend them anywhere") and use cases where it might be desirable will start popping up.  eg.  going abroad and not having to exchange your fiat currencies.  The current volatility would still stop most people from doing that, but if the fees for acquiring bitcoins are lower than fees for converting fiat money, the expected value is positive.

If I said "can't spend BTC anywhere," you would be justified in asking me to defend such a silly statement.  But since I didn't, and you tried to stuff those words into my mouth, I won't.

The problem isn't that you can't spend BTC.  You can spend anything, including rusty VW Beatles and recyclable plastic bottles.  Though recyclable plastic bottles are a far better store of value than BTC, neither one of us would suggest that they're money.  Not even if a bum agrees to take them to a redemption center and exchange them for money in exchange for a small fee or totally ripping you off.

[JorgeStolfi]

so everyone accepting paypal is actually not accepting $, € or any other fiat currency?

Of course.  The currency that they accept is one thing, the means through which they receive the currency is another thing.  Last time I checked, Dell USA accepted only dollars, but you could send the dollars in one of several ways: PayPal, credit card, bank wire, old-fashioned checks, -- or BitPay.  Likewise, Dell would pay refunds only in dollars, even if you paid with BitPay.

what happens when paypal will integrate btc this year? still nobody accepting bitcoin?
they do accept bitcoin as payment, the just dont hold it.

Either PayPal will do the conversion to dollars and send dollars to the merchant, like BitPay does; or most merchants that accept payment via BitPay will not accept bitcoins through Paypal.

[Sitarow]

One of the many bitcoin paradoxes:


If the amount of money dumped spent with merchants through Bitpay is insignificant, that means that very few people are using bitcoin to buy stuff that is not drugz or child pr0nz with bitcoin on the deep web -> there is no real "adoption".
If that amount is significant, add that the the daily sell pressure on the price, as if demand is not low enough  

  checkmate

One of the many amazing aspects of bitcoin FUNDAMENTALZZZ!!11

 

The fallacy is that the issue with providing liquidity to the BTC economy is on a decline.

The reality is that more and more services are becoming available to facilitate easy entry into this market.

One of the big successes of BTC-e when LTC was starting to get a foot hold was the introduction of deposits from credit card.

As time goes on this "issue" that may or may not be a real issue today will not be used as an argument against BTC and its future.

[Brewins]

One of the many bitcoin paradoxes:


If the amount of money dumped spent with merchants through Bitpay is insignificant, that means that very few people are using bitcoin to buy stuff that is not drugz or child pr0nz with bitcoin on the deep web -> there is no real "adoption" (as a currency).
If that amount is significant, add that the the daily sell pressure on the price, as if demand is not low enough  

of course, because the internet police will hunt people that use BTC to other things than buy and sell things

[NotHatinJustTrollin]

One of the many bitcoin paradoxes:


If the amount of money dumped spent with merchants through Bitpay is insignificant, that means that very few people are using bitcoin to buy stuff that is not drugz or child pr0nz with bitcoin on the deep web -> there is no real "adoption".
If that amount is significant, add that the the daily sell pressure on the price, as if demand is not low enough  

  checkmate

One of the many amazing aspects of bitcoin FUNDAMENTALZZZ!!11

 

The fallacy is that the issue with providing liquidity to the BTC economy is on a decline.

The reality is that more and more services are becoming available to facilitate easy entry into this market.

One of the big successes of BTC-e when LTC was starting to get a foot hold was the introduction of deposits from credit card.

As time goes on this "issue" that may or may not be a real issue today will not be used as an argument against BTC and its future.

Easier entries doesn't necessarily mean that a significant amount of people (significant compared to the selling pressure and overall supply) will want to buy it tho 

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

I still think drugs is the best use case we have. Why don't people buy heroin anymore or what

[Sitarow]

One of the many bitcoin paradoxes:


If the amount of money dumped spent with merchants through Bitpay is insignificant, that means that very few people are using bitcoin to buy stuff that is not drugz or child pr0nz with bitcoin on the deep web -> there is no real "adoption".
If that amount is significant, add that the the daily sell pressure on the price, as if demand is not low enough  

  checkmate

One of the many amazing aspects of bitcoin FUNDAMENTALZZZ!!11

 

The fallacy is that the issue with providing liquidity to the BTC economy is on a decline.

The reality is that more and more services are becoming available to facilitate easy entry into this market.

One of the big successes of BTC-e when LTC was starting to get a foot hold was the introduction of deposits from credit card.

As time goes on this "issue" that may or may not be a real issue today will not be used as an argument against BTC and its future.

Easier entries doesn't necessarily mean that a significant amount of people (significant compared to the selling pressure and overall supply) will want to buy it tho 

That may be the case. However thus far when an option to simplify moving fiat into btc economy was available the results were for all to see.

[testerman]

Your first argument is a feeble attempt to push fallacy as fact.
Bitpay one of a few service providers says otherwise.

http://blog.bitpay.com/2015/02/04/bitcoin-and-bitpay-in-2014.html

In that link there is no reference to actual transaction volume, it doesn't say anything about how much money is spent (aka dumped) on merchants accepting bitcoin with Bitpay, if this number has increased or if it's anywhere significant. also, it doesn't tell you who is dumping spending their bitcoin on merchants accepting them through Bitpay. Whales who already own plenty of BTC? a limited number of libertarians? or people buying bitcoin to use as a currency for its *amazing advantages* to fiat money?
I highly doubt it any significant amount of money comes from the latter group, and bitpay doesn't tell me anything about that.

Because that was my point, people buying bitcoin to use it for its supposed utility as a currency.

@NotHatinJustTrollin.

Knowledge, Understanding & Wisdom is a lost art on you it seems.

Why the hell are you posting a pic of BTC-E? Does that answer any of these questions (especially the last one)?
Nope.

it doesn't say anything about how much money is spent (aka dumped) on merchants accepting bitcoin with Bitpay, if this number has increased or if it's anywhere significant. also, it doesn't tell you who is dumping spending their bitcoin on merchants accepting them through Bitpay. Whales who already own plenty of BTC? a limited number of libertarians? or people buying bitcoin to use as a currency for its *amazing advantages* to fiat money?
I highly doubt it any significant amount of money comes from the latter group, and bitpay doesn't tell me anything about that.

Unfortunately your lack of wisdom is evidently shown publicly. Your incompetence in exercising understanding is imponderable.
http://www.btcfeed.net/news/bitpay-processed-over-100-million-in-bitcoin-transactions/

What about the last question? In a 3-10 billion marketcap currency there are some whales that can dump spend coins, what a surprise.
Who is actually using those bitcoin as a currency?
"people buying bitcoin to use as a currency for its *amazing advantages* to fiat money?"?

One is one to many for free advise

However know that the Value of BTC is outside your present perspective.

I take it as "I can't answer that shit".

Know that your inability or lack of desire to seek out your own understanding has been made clear in our brief exchange of perspectives.


https://twitter.com/GaltsGirl/status/564137655827316737/photo/1

All pleasantries aside...

7:22PM EST

hi what is the name of the wallet application thanks.

[JorgeStolfi]

handing that BTC to a payment processor (which also profits from the deal because not charity)

I don't know whether BitPay is profiting.  

IIRC, when they started, they offered merchants a free entry-level plan, that allowed only some small volume.  Merchants who exceeded that volume would have to upgrade to a plan with a monthly fee.  But at some time they dropped all fees.

Even if they are processing 200 million USD/year of e-payments, and taking a percentage of that somehow, their revenue must be only 3-4 million USD/year.  Their payroll alone must be more than that.  

Didn't they lay off some staff recently? Anyone remembers how much they paid for the Bitcoin Bowl?

So perhaps they are still operating at a loss, burning their venture capital, hoping for a substantial traffic increase.  Which, again, would explain why they are not releasing any meaningful numbers.