Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[hdbuck]

From the 2014-09-30 financial statement on that page, I understand that now the fund is managed by Greyscale, and they no longer buy or sell bitcoins and no longer buy or sell shares for dollars (page 31+).  Instead, there a 1st level broker and a few 2nd level brokers (including those 4 listed on the page).  Those brokers can buy shares from Greyscale with bitcoins only, and will get bitcoins when they sell shares to Grayscale.  In other words, it is now the brokers and the investors who must buy and sell the bitcoins on exchanges; Greyscale will just keep them safely until they are redeemed or stolen.

My guess is that those bids are just the 2nd level brokers testing the system, and the bids are not being filled because the only authorized sellers are the same 2nd level brokers, and they have no shares to sell.  They must either buy some shares from Greyscale, or wait until some of the early BIT investors gives them their shares to sell.

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension.

What did you understand from that?

Just about everything you said is wrong. You are right that Greyscale is managing the fund. Everything else is wrong.

Greyscale doesn't keep the Bitcoin safe, they exchange baskets of shares from the Bitcoin Investment Trust (BIT).

Basically, shares of GBTC are created by exchanging BIT for GBTC and destroyed by redeeming GBTC for BIT.

I'm not going to explain the entire document.

but where teh bitcoins??!
this suonds worst than MtGox's fractional reserves.

BIT holds the bitcoin. There is no fractional reserve. Each share of BIT is backed by 1/10 of a Bitcoin and shares of BIT and GBTC are equal.

how many coins does BIT hold then? any signed address known?

[1715135569]

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[NotHatinJustTrollin]

1. Create decentralized currency with no need for trusted third parties where users transfer value directly between each other.
2. Create ETFs and funds where trusted third parties hold the funds for you.
3. ? ? ? ? ?
4. Profit!!!

[hdbuck]

1. Create decentralized currency with no need for trusted third parties where users transfer value directly to each other.
2. Create ETFs and funds where trusted third parties hold the funds for you.
3. ? ? ? ? ?
4. Profit!!!

these guys are 'licensed' geniuses.

[tarmi]

1. Create decentralized currency with no need for trusted third parties where users transfer value directly to each other.
2. Create ETFs and funds where trusted third parties hold the funds for you.
3. ? ? ? ? ?
4. Profit!!!

these guys are 'licensed' geniuses.

too bad they  were so smart to buy in the middle of a bubble.

please stop talking about them.

[rolling]

From the 2014-09-30 financial statement on that page, I understand that now the fund is managed by Greyscale, and they no longer buy or sell bitcoins and no longer buy or sell shares for dollars (page 31+).  Instead, there a 1st level broker and a few 2nd level brokers (including those 4 listed on the page).  Those brokers can buy shares from Greyscale with bitcoins only, and will get bitcoins when they sell shares to Grayscale.  In other words, it is now the brokers and the investors who must buy and sell the bitcoins on exchanges; Greyscale will just keep them safely until they are redeemed or stolen.

My guess is that those bids are just the 2nd level brokers testing the system, and the bids are not being filled because the only authorized sellers are the same 2nd level brokers, and they have no shares to sell.  They must either buy some shares from Greyscale, or wait until some of the early BIT investors gives them their shares to sell.

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension.

What did you understand from that?

Just about everything you said is wrong. You are right that Greyscale is managing the fund. Everything else is wrong.

Greyscale doesn't keep the Bitcoin safe, they exchange baskets of shares from the Bitcoin Investment Trust (BIT).

Basically, shares of GBTC are created by exchanging BIT for GBTC and destroyed by redeeming GBTC for BIT.

I'm not going to explain the entire document.

but where teh bitcoins??!
this suonds worst than MtGox's fractional reserves.

BIT holds the bitcoin. There is no fractional reserve. Each share of BIT is backed by 1/10 of a Bitcoin and shares of BIT and GBTC are equal.

how many coins does BIT hold then? any signed address known?

Their financial report says they held 1,382,400 shares or 138,240 BTC held by 184 entities as of Dec 31, 2014.

[coinableS]

how many coins does BIT hold then? any signed address known?

Last estimate: 135,634 BTC

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=337486.0

[gentlemand]

how many coins does BIT hold then? any signed address known?

I assume they've now switched to the shares which makes it over 130,000

http://bitcointrust.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Fact-Sheet_Mar15.pdf

[hdbuck]

From the 2014-09-30 financial statement on that page, I understand that now the fund is managed by Greyscale, and they no longer buy or sell bitcoins and no longer buy or sell shares for dollars (page 31+).  Instead, there a 1st level broker and a few 2nd level brokers (including those 4 listed on the page).  Those brokers can buy shares from Greyscale with bitcoins only, and will get bitcoins when they sell shares to Grayscale.  In other words, it is now the brokers and the investors who must buy and sell the bitcoins on exchanges; Greyscale will just keep them safely until they are redeemed or stolen.

My guess is that those bids are just the 2nd level brokers testing the system, and the bids are not being filled because the only authorized sellers are the same 2nd level brokers, and they have no shares to sell.  They must either buy some shares from Greyscale, or wait until some of the early BIT investors gives them their shares to sell.

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension.

What did you understand from that?

Just about everything you said is wrong. You are right that Greyscale is managing the fund. Everything else is wrong.

Greyscale doesn't keep the Bitcoin safe, they exchange baskets of shares from the Bitcoin Investment Trust (BIT).

Basically, shares of GBTC are created by exchanging BIT for GBTC and destroyed by redeeming GBTC for BIT.

I'm not going to explain the entire document.

but where teh bitcoins??!
this suonds worst than MtGox's fractional reserves.

BIT holds the bitcoin. There is no fractional reserve. Each share of BIT is backed by 1/10 of a Bitcoin and shares of BIT and GBTC are equal.

how many coins does BIT hold then? any signed address known?

Their financial report says they held 1,382,400 shares or 138,240 BTC as of Dec 31, 2014.

whoo i see..  USG 'licensed' stamp-approval magically legitimizing more paperwork..

@gentlemand: #factsheet    

[Fatman3001]

Would be interesting to send an e-mail to the real Jorge Stolfi and ask if this is his account. Most of "his" posts are designed to confuse. Rather than inform, which I thought was his aim.

[macsga]

Why are you people keep talking about the ETF? It's been certified: "Good News=Price Drop"... Bear fest it is. Come on Tarmi, tell them

[Cassius]

Would be interesting to send an e-mail to the real Jorge Stolfi and ask if this is his account. Most of "his" posts are designed to confuse. Rather than inform, which I thought was his aim.

It is a sad state of affairs, but I believe it is the real Jorge Stolfi. I can only imagine what his students think of him spending so many hours on these forums.

[Dump3er]

News are so irrelevant.

But it's a never ending story: There comes some good news, wall observer Bulls are freaking out and after that price freaks out for +0.25$ -> Wall observer Bulls talking about the moon!  (Fap, fap, fap) 

Looks like fiat problems...

[rolling]

how many coins does BIT hold then? any signed address known?

Their financial report says they held 1,382,400 shares or 138,240 BTC as of Dec 31, 2014.

whoo i see..  USG 'licensed' stamp-approval magically legitimizing more paperwork..

Are you seriously saying that Barry Silbert and the Bitcoin Investment Trust don't actually hold the bitcoin?

[tarmi]

Why are you people keep talking about the ETF? It's been certified: "Good News=Price Drop"... Bear fest it is. Come on Tarmi, tell them

etf?  

no, they are talking about pink sheets.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgGossqGRd4

[JorgeStolfi]

From the 2014-09-30 financial statement on that page, I understand that now the fund is managed by Greyscale, and they no longer buy or sell bitcoins and no longer buy or sell shares for dollars (page 31+).  Instead, there a 1st level broker and a few 2nd level brokers (including those 4 listed on the page).  Those brokers can buy shares from Greyscale with bitcoins only, and will get bitcoins when they sell shares to Grayscale.  In other words, it is now the brokers and the investors who must buy and sell the bitcoins on exchanges; Greyscale will just keep them safely until they are redeemed or stolen.

My guess is that those bids are just the 2nd level brokers testing the system, and the bids are not being filled because the only authorized sellers are the same 2nd level brokers, and they have no shares to sell.  They must either buy some shares from Greyscale, or wait until some of the early BIT investors gives them their shares to sell.

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension.

What did you understand from that?

Just about everything you said is wrong. You are right that Greyscale is managing the fund. Everything else is wrong.

Greyscale doesn't keep the Bitcoin safe, they exchange baskets of shares from the Bitcoin Investment Trust (BIT).

Basically, shares of GBTC are created by exchanging BIT for GBTC and destroyed by redeeming GBTC for BIT.

I'm not going to explain the entire document.

The creation and redemption of Baskets requires the delivery to the Trust or the distribution by the Trust of the number of bitcoins represented by the Baskets being created or redeemed. The number of bitcoins that will be required (“Basket Bitcoin Amount”) for each creation basket (“Creation Basket”) or redemption basket (“Redemption Basket”) will be determined  [ ... ]

Authorized Participants are the only persons that  may place orders to create and redeem Baskets. Each Authorized Participant (i) is a registered broker-dealer, (ii) has entered into a Participant Agreement with the Sponsor and the Trust, and (iii) has access to an Authorized Participant Self-Administered Account (as defined herein). The Participant Agreement provides the procedures for the creation and redemption of Baskets and for the delivery of bitcoins required for creations and redemptions. [ ... ]

Authorized Participants who make deposits of bitcoins with the Trust in exchange for Creation Baskets receive no fees, commissi ons or other form of compensation or inducement of any kind from either the Sponsor or the Trust.   In particular, an Authorized Participant may profit from the “spread” (or diffe rence) between the prices at which it purchases and sells Shares and bitcoins (or obtains Shares or bitcoins through the creation and redemption of Baskets). For example, when creating Shares, an Authorized Participant may deposit bitcoins with the Trust that it has acquired at a price that is lower than the current Bitcoin Market Price and thus receive Shares with a value greater than the Authorized Participant’s cost of acquiring the deposited bitcoins.
[ ... ]

As another example, when redeeming Shares, an Authorized Participant may receive bitcoins and then hold them for later
resale at a profit if the price of bitcoins increases. The frequent and significant fluctuations in the price of bitcoins increases the
extent to which an Authorized Participant may profit from its transactions in Shares and bitcoins. As of the date of this Disclosure Statement [ September 2014 ], the only Authorized Participant is SecondMarket,Inc., an affiliate of the Sponsor. [ now apparently there are more ] [ ... ]

As of the date of this Disclosure Statement, SecondMarket, Inc. has signed a Participant Agreement with the Sponsor and the Trust and may create and redeem Baskets.

My reading still is that SecondMarket and other "Authorized Participants" have to buy bitcoins themselves in order to get shares from Greyscale.  Isn t that so?

EDIT: and BIT is the acronym of the officilal name of the fund (Bitcoin Investment Trust), while GBTC is the ticker symbol assigned by OTCQX for the BIT shares.  There are no "GBTC shares".

[hdbuck]

how many coins does BIT hold then? any signed address known?

Their financial report says they held 1,382,400 shares or 138,240 BTC as of Dec 31, 2014.

whoo i see..  USG 'licensed' stamp-approval magically legitimizing more paperwork..

Are you seriously saying that Barry Silbert and the Bitcoin Investment Trust don't actually hold the bitcoin?

which bitcoins? who holds what? does barry silbert holds BIT's bitcoins? i dunno. show the bitcoins before asking people to invest. this is ridiculous.

[Fatman3001]

Would be interesting to send an e-mail to the real Jorge Stolfi and ask if this is his account. Most of "his" posts are designed to confuse. Rather than inform, which I thought was his aim.

It is a sad state of affairs, but I believe it is the real Jorge Stolfi. I can only imagine what his students think of him spending so many hours on these forums.

Jeebus Creebus,

One thing is the hours. But the content? I don't mind people being critical of BTC, but he has nothing that sticks. He just drones away on lies and stupidity which has been rebuffed countless times. He should get a hobby. Join a marching band or something.

[Fatman3001]

how many coins does BIT hold then? any signed address known?

Their financial report says they held 1,382,400 shares or 138,240 BTC as of Dec 31, 2014.

whoo i see..  USG 'licensed' stamp-approval magically legitimizing more paperwork..

Are you seriously saying that Barry Silbert and the Bitcoin Investment Trust don't actually hold the bitcoin?

which bitcoins? who holds what? does barry silbert holds BIT's bitcoins? i dunno. show the bitcoins before asking people to invest. this is ridiculous.

Just hope Tarmi doesn't let you down.

[rolling]

EDIT: and BIT is the acronym of the officilal name of the fund (Bitcoin Investment Trust), while GBTC is the ticker symbol assigned by OTCQX for the BIT shares.  There are no "GBTC shares".

GBTC are shares of BIT that have been deposited for sale on OTC. Therefore, not every share of BIT is represented by a share of GBTC. It's not only an acronym. GBTC is a share of BIT that is for sale.

[HI-TEC99]

Would be interesting to send an e-mail to the real Jorge Stolfi and ask if this is his account. Most of "his" posts are designed to confuse. Rather than inform, which I thought was his aim.

It is a sad state of affairs, but I believe it is the real Jorge Stolfi. I can only imagine what his students think of him spending so many hours on these forums.

Jeebus Creebus,

One thing is the hours. But the content? I don't mind people being critical of BTC, but he has nothing that sticks. He just drones away on lies and stupidity which has been rebuffed countless times. He should get a hobby. Join a marching band or something.

His Wikipedia page says he's anti-bitcoin.

In late 2013 Jorge took an active interest in the economics of cryptocurrencies. He became extremely skeptical about its underlying soundness and chances of success, and has been advising the Brazilian public against investment in bitcoin.