Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Ibian]

I think I figured out why Denmark doesn't tax bitcoin. In the states you all have to do your taxes manually right? Well here it's done for us, we just have to report anything they missed (which is rare for most of us). They even return excess taxes automatically every year.

I reckon they just didn't want the massive headache it would have caused.

[gentlemand]

Sorry if this was mentioned already. I'm too lazy to check.

It seems bitcoin was the subject at the presidential briefing yesterday. Sarah Sanders sez the president (and some advisors she named) were 'monitoring' it.

@15:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzskJmAHyck

Not sure if this is before or after the bitcoin Big Bang Theory episode.

This means that tomorrow Donald will order the execution of Satoshi, and you.

The following morning someone with real power will announce you can pay your taxes with it.

[julian071]

Sorry if this was mentioned already. I'm too lazy to check.

It seems bitcoin was the subject at the presidential briefing yesterday. Sarah Sanders sez the president (and some advisors she named) were 'monitoring' it.

@15:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzskJmAHyck

Not sure if this is before or after the bitcoin Big Bang Theory episode.

Ah fuck that journalist. Bringing it to the attention of that big Umpa Lumpa can never result in anything good.

[marcus_of_augustus]

Sorry if this was mentioned already. I'm too lazy to check.

It seems bitcoin was the subject at the presidential briefing yesterday. Sarah Sanders sez the president (and some advisors she named) were 'monitoring' it.

@15:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzskJmAHyck

Not sure if this is before or after the bitcoin Big Bang Theory episode.

@TheRealDonaldTrump is tweeting "We are monitoring bitcoin" ... time to take some profits

[pfrtlpfmpf]

The law in the US is a bit fucked up, but basically bitcoin is treated like an equity, such as a stock, for tax purposes.

You don't pay taxes until you sell BTC for fiat currency, or trade it for hard assets, like lambos and mansions.

A bit ? ?

[Lionidas]

Bitfinex what?

I don't think they will find anything with Roger Ver had anything to do with the Tether mass exodus into a wallet.

[Rosewater Foundation]

Sorry if this was mentioned already. I'm too lazy to check.

It seems bitcoin was the subject at the presidential briefing yesterday. Sarah Sanders sez the president (and some advisors she named) were 'monitoring' it.

@15:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzskJmAHyck

Not sure if this is before or after the bitcoin Big Bang Theory episode.

@TheRealDonaldTrump is tweeting "We are monitoring bitcoin" ... time to take some profits

sheeeiiit.

[Ibian]

Trump is one of us. Don't worry too much.

[pfrtlpfmpf]

The law in the US is a bit fucked up, but basically bitcoin is treated like an equity, such as a stock, for tax purposes.

You don't pay taxes until you sell BTC for fiat currency, or trade it for hard assets, like lambos and mansions.

I've often seen accountant types reckon that trading a crypto for another crypto is realising a gain and thus taxable.

As it's not possible to trade a share for another share, you have to turn it into USD first, there's not much of a precedent elsewhere so I've never been too sure about this.

So, basically, i need 2 professions. One that makes me money, and one that helps me to avoid loosing everything from the first one. In a nutshell.
And when i have some time left over, i get to attend to my life. You americans are really fucked. I feel sorry for you !

[Rosewater Foundation]

I don't like how the world is talking about us. Makes me nervous.  

[xhomerx10]

The law in the US is a bit fucked up, but basically bitcoin is treated like an equity, such as a stock, for tax purposes.

You don't pay taxes until you sell BTC for fiat currency, or trade it for hard assets, like lambos and mansions.

I've often seen accountant types reckon that trading a crypto for another crypto is realising a gain and thus taxable.

As it's not possible to trade a share for another share, you have to turn it into USD first, there's not much of a precedent elsewhere so I've never been too sure about this.

So, basically, i need 2 professions. One that makes me money, and one that helps me to avoid loosing everything from the first one. In a nutshell.
And when i have some time left over, i get to attend to my life. You americans are really fucked. I feel sorry for you !

 Yup!  America: The Land of Productivity.
"The Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993 (FMLA) requires 12 weeks of unpaid leave annually for mothers of newborn or newly adopted children. This is one of the lowest levels of leave in the industrialized world."
~ Wikipedia

[Spaceman_Spiff_Original]

I take it the rate of new accounts at the exchanges has tapered off now too right?

You are guessing, or you have info about this?

[RoomBot]

D@MN !  BTC shot up from @9.800 to 10,400 in < 20 mins~!

Back down to $10,200



GO BTC GO!

[RoomBot]

I take it the rate of new accounts at the exchanges has tapered off now too right?

You are guessing, or you have info about this?

No.....CoinBase is growing too fast for its own britches.  Obviously.

[Rosewater Foundation]

[pfrtlpfmpf]

The law in the US is a bit fucked up, but basically bitcoin is treated like an equity, such as a stock, for tax purposes.

You don't pay taxes until you sell BTC for fiat currency, or trade it for hard assets, like lambos and mansions.

I've often seen accountant types reckon that trading a crypto for another crypto is realising a gain and thus taxable.

As it's not possible to trade a share for another share, you have to turn it into USD first, there's not much of a precedent elsewhere so I've never been too sure about this.

So, basically, i need 2 professions. One that makes me money, and one that helps me to avoid loosing everything from the first one. In a nutshell.
And when i have some time left over, i get to attend to my life. You americans are really fucked. I feel sorry for you !

 Yup!  America: The Land of Productivity.
"The Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993 (FMLA) requires 12 weeks of unpaid leave annually for mothers of newborn or newly adopted children. This is one of the lowest levels of leave in the industrialized world."
~ Wikipedia

There, that´s it. WTF ?
I´m going kitesurfing. Leckt mich am A . . . !

[JayJuanGee]

Are closed altcoin profits in btc a realized gain? That wouldn't be fair because if I hold them indefinitely they will inevitably be worth 0 and uncle Sam isn't going to reimburse me.

If you trade any of your cryptos for crypto, fiat, or even goods, you're creating a taxable event on which you get a tax break in the case of losses and a tax bill in the case of gains. Doesn't really matter if it's Bitcoin, an altcoins or any other asset.

Apparently there are like-kind exchanges in the US which allow tax deferals, but I'm not at all familiar with how those work. If you could just flip BTCs and alts and defer taxes indefinitely that would be a pretty major thing.

I don't see how moving BTC to another wallet creates a tax event.

The law in the US is a bit fucked up, but basically bitcoin is treated like an equity, such as a stock, for tax purposes.

You don't pay taxes until you sell BTC for fiat currency, or trade it for hard assets, like lambos and mansions.

EXACTAMENTE!!!!!!

[JayJuanGee]

I bought my first Bitcoin at $11,000 yesterday what should I am be doing? When global collapse and me be upperclass smart aristocrat now? Thanks!

Sell when the price goes exactly to $5,500.  Otherwise HODL until the price goes to $22K, and then sell 10% (which would be .1BTC at $22k).

[gembitz]

I bought my first Bitcoin at $11,000 yesterday what should I am be doing? When global collapse and me be upperclass smart aristocrat now? Thanks!

Sell when the price goes exactly to $5,500.  Otherwise HODL until the price goes to $22K, and then sell 10% (which would be .1BTC at $22k).

that's what i said at $150 :-D weeeee lel

[lightfoot]

Yeah it's like nothing happened. Boring bitcoin.

Regarding taxes: If it's a taxable event every time a bitcoin moves from one wallet address to another then we're all screwed. I doubt it as that would be similar to saying moving a gold coin from my vault to the bank vault is a taxable event. I run under the following guidelines:

1) If I mine a bitcoin I owe taxes (income) on the value of that bitcoin at the moment it is mined/transferred to my wallet. That is income, gets reported, and that value is the base value of the coin for C&G profit and loss.

2) If I receive a coin as payment, I owe taxes (income) on the value of that transaction at the moment it is done. There is a little wiggle room if I quote a bitcoin price and it changes slightly between quote and payment but I use that as the base value.

3) If I use shapeshift to move between bitcoin and litecoin (I use Litecoin for AR and Bitcoin for AP) I do not mark it as a taxable event however I do have to recompute the basis value of the resulting bitcoin based on the profit or loss of the litecoin to the bitcoin (for example if I get litecoin at 50 and transfer it to bitcoin at 100% then that bitcoin has to include the imputed profit I made from the litecoin when I go to sell that bitcoin. That amps up the CG taxes quite a bit as it's STCG).

Note: If I used an exchange that transferred the coin to money first then that would be a taxable event IMO. With SS there is never fiat being created or destroyed.

4) If I sell bitcoin for cash or trade for (miners, parts, overstock towels, etc) I have to pay the capital gain or loss at the time I make the sale based on the LIFO accounting/accrual method. Even if it goes into buying stuff for the company, I need to keep an eye on that accrual. This is why I sell the newest coins first, to keep this paperwork to a sane level.

It's probably not perfect but it is the best faith solution I can come up with. So far the IRS response has been "Man, you're paying taxes on this stuff? Good for you!"

Do the best you can with what you have.