Feri22
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 10, 2014, 01:00:47 AM |
|
And nobody cares, cause China is about to almost completely ban bitcoin, which will crash price to 300-400 Yeah yeah, nobody cares about China anymore, everybody knows they will unban it later, move on.... Ha ha, ok, we'll se in two weeks We'll see in two years You're complaining about lack of interest for Overstock news (extremely short-term) and now talking long term?! You can't mix apples and oranges and be taken seriously Yeah yeah bear, whatever ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif)
|
|
|
|
JorgeStolfi
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 10, 2014, 01:02:31 AM |
|
As others have pointed out, people buying things with bitcoins (whether through Bitpay or similar service, as seems to be generally the case, or by direct barter) is the same thing as selling them. Besides acting to lower the price of bitcoin, that is the opposite of "hodling", right?
Ordinary people still have no reason to use bitcoins (rather than old money) to buy things on retailers like Overstock. So that option should not bring more old money (USD etc) to the Bitcoin market.
Speculators and miners who want to leave the Bitcoin game now have the option to cash out in merchandise (at a few merchants) rather than in old money. That only makes it a bit easier for them to decide to leave, and hence take old money out of the market.
So the Overstock news is "good news" only for True Believers, who did not need it to believe anyway...
|
|
|
|
ChartBuddy
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1801
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/lamp.gif) |
January 10, 2014, 01:02:33 AM |
|
|
|
|
|
vdcc
Member
![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif)
Offline
Activity: 67
Merit: 10
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 10, 2014, 01:06:22 AM |
|
As others have pointed out, people buying things with bitcoins (whether through Bitpay or similar service, as seems to be generally the case, or by direct barter) is the same thing as selling them. Besides acting to lower the price of bitcoin, that is the opposite of "hodling", right?
Ordinary people still have no reason to use bitcoins (rather than old money) to buy things on retailers like Overstock. So that option should not bring more old money (USD etc) to the Bitcoin market.
Speculators and miners who want to leave the Bitcoin game now have the option to cash out in merchandise (at a few merchants) rather than in old money. That only makes it a bit easier for them to decide to leave, and hence take old money out of the market.
So the Overstock news is "good news" only for True Believers, who did not need it to believe anyway...
Yep. Although spending coins (selling them for $) through Bitpay or Overstock-Coinbase is better (longterm, for bitcoin as a currency) than hodling.
|
|
|
|
|
Feri22
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 10, 2014, 01:06:58 AM |
|
Why is nothing happening? Overstock not enough to take us back to >1000? WTF?
Fiat must hit the exchanges first, so give it some time. I think Overstock news isn't market moving news. Its been in the works for some time,and the market tends to price things in b4 they happen. it does give me more confidence to buy more cheap coins ( if coin ever cheap happen... come on poeple SELL MORE COINZ! ) at this point whats really going to move the market into a 10K + bubble is the news of random bank bail-outs or bail-ins or wtv global financial problems. slowly but surely more and more poeple will wake up to whats really going on, get mad, and invest in bitcoin paper wallets. But why on the other hand every fart from China has bigger effect than these news? I would think that we are already 100% over it, but i have feeling we are not yet...? PS: How can I help to create some global financial problems? ![Huh](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/huh.gif) 1) a lot of market participants are bearish simple because they are holding 1000% or more profits. so any bad news is a good reason to grab profits. ( this profit taking period feels like its almost over... ) you can help simple by USING bitcoin and not dollars So you don't believe China will take us again in sub 500 in end of the month how vdcc wrote?
|
|
|
|
solex
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1006
100 satoshis -> ISO code
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 10, 2014, 01:07:57 AM |
|
Because nobody knows what the price is without China. China is responsible for the entire rise from $110. The silk road crash ended when China started buying. There are people who think even that the silk road crash would have continued lower without China, below $110, maybe all the way back to $60. Then China brought the price all the way up to $1250. For the past 3 months every exchange has simply followed the Chinese price like a slave. Now every time there is bad news the price just drops like a rock without any resistance. Then the price recovers because China started buying again - every time. People think "oh now China news has been factored in" but it hasn't. I STILL observe all exchanges following every movement of China like a salve - it is wired into all the bots and the strategies of all the traders - like an automated process. Anyone who thinks China isn't still leading is fooling themselves. So what happens if China is removed from the equation completely? Nobody knows where the drop would end, where real support on other exchanges would kick in, and what the true value is without China. It is some variable anywhere from $90 to $900. It is a mystery. Sure the news adds value but from what basis? Let's say overstock adds $50. $900 + $50 = $950. But also $90 + $50 = $140. Nobody knows so they are cautious.
A lot of your analysis is very good, but this is seriously off-track. China was not the primary mover from $110 to $1242, it was SecondMarket and other investor/financial/Wall Street types tailgating on their initiative, plus the Vancouver ATM news. China added fuel to the fire. Say that China was 40% of the rally. Well, China is not going to zero, even after all the controls are in, it may contract 50%. So that leaves 80% of the mega-move intact. Then add Overstock, enthusiasm in LATAM countries, etc. The $800 level looks solid unless there is some seriously bad news like a major Western government trying a dumb "banning" stunt.
|
|
|
|
Erdogan
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 10, 2014, 01:10:25 AM |
|
How long until quintuple digits? I recommend researching villas, private jets and supercars that you would like to buy within the next months so you are ready. Might even get to purchase it with Bitcoin then.
So you don't want to buy a coin now for the common good? Sounds suspiciously selfish. (sarcasm).
|
|
|
|
Spaceman_Spiff
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001
₪``Campaign Manager´´₪
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 10, 2014, 01:10:32 AM |
|
While reddit is panicking about a potential 51% Attack by GHASH... No-one notices that fiat is under a permanent 100% attack!
Haha, nice one ! Paradigm shift bitchez :-).
|
|
|
|
JorgeStolfi
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 10, 2014, 01:16:11 AM |
|
1) a lot of market participants are bearish simple because they are holding 1000% or more profits. so any bad news is a good reason to grab profits. ( this profit taking period feels like its almost over... )
One cannot claim a profit until the bitcoins have been exchanged for old money, merchandise, or services. Those who profited 1000% are those who bought at 100 USD and sold at 1000 USD. Obviously they do not have the bitcoins any more and cannot "grab profits" again. Those who have bought at 100 USD and not sold yet may want to cash out with profit at any time, most likely when they suspect that the price will not rise fast enough in the future. Those who have bought at 1000 USD will only be able to make a profit if the price rises again above that level. They may despair and sell at a loss. you can help simple by USING bitcoin and not dollars
That is the same as saying "sell your bitcoins". Good for hoarders, bad for the price...
|
|
|
|
windjc
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1070
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 10, 2014, 01:18:37 AM |
|
What is all this nonsense about bitcoin being used as a currency being bad for bitcoins price??? Are we that myopic that we will suggest a few more bitcoins going through coinbase is going to dampen prices??!! And the people making these suggestions are the SAME who complain about the price going up too fast. What. A. Joke.
So what if it dampens prices short term. Long term we need adoption and this is a big step. One of hundreds that are needed.
Some of you are just trolling out of boredom I suppose.
|
|
|
|
solex
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1006
100 satoshis -> ISO code
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 10, 2014, 01:19:43 AM |
|
1) a lot of market participants are bearish simple because they are holding 1000% or more profits. so any bad news is a good reason to grab profits. ( this profit taking period feels like its almost over... )
One cannot claim a profit until the bitcoins have been exchanged for old money, merchandise, or services. Ever heard of "paper profits" and "mark to market". Normal stuff in mainstream finance. Bitcoin is no different.
|
|
|
|
adsdas
Sr. Member
![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif) ![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif) ![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif)
Offline
Activity: 337
Merit: 250
https://streamies.io/
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 10, 2014, 01:21:18 AM |
|
Lol that stamp dump
|
|
|
|
JorgeStolfi
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 10, 2014, 01:25:02 AM |
|
China was not the primary mover from $110 to $1242
It is evident that all the markets, including China, have been tied together to this day. Since its volume is 5x that of any other market, its is a reasonable guess that it is the elephant that is dragging the dog rather than the other way around. Whoever is the leader, the reaction on the others is very quick. Perhaps one can tell who is the leader by looking at the minute-by-minute trade data. (Methinks that it does not matter whether the Huobi volume is due to humans or robots. Manual day traders generally use "dumb" strategies that make them behave like robots, only slower ones.)
|
|
|
|
windjc
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1070
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 10, 2014, 01:27:00 AM |
|
China was not the primary mover from $110 to $1242
It is evident that all the markets, including China, have been tied together to this day. Since its volume is 5x that of any other market, its is a reasonable guess that it is the elephant that is dragging the dog rather than the other way around. Whoever is the leader, the reaction on the others is very quick. Perhaps one can tell who is the leader by looking at the minute-by-minute trade data. (Methinks that it does not matter whether the Huobi volume is due to humans or robots. Manual day traders generally use "dumb" strategies that make them behave like robots, only slower ones.) Much of chinas exchange volume was non-Chinese.
|
|
|
|
samson
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2097
Merit: 1070
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 10, 2014, 01:28:35 AM |
|
The whole China thing was a complete load of horseshit from the beginning to the end.
|
|
|
|
mellowyellow
Member
![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif)
Offline
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 10, 2014, 01:30:17 AM |
|
Lol that stamp dump
Huobi went the other way ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) I have no idea which way this will go by tomorrow. Could be anywhere, 50/50 for me for now.
|
|
|
|
seleme
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1028
Duelbits.com
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 10, 2014, 01:45:00 AM |
|
Because nobody knows what the price is without China. China is responsible for the entire rise from $110. The silk road crash ended when China started buying. There are people who think even that the silk road crash would have continued lower without China, below $110, maybe all the way back to $60. Then China brought the price all the way up to $1250. For the past 3 months every exchange has simply followed the Chinese price like a slave. Now every time there is bad news the price just drops like a rock without any resistance. Then the price recovers because China started buying again - every time. People think "oh now China news has been factored in" but it hasn't. I STILL observe all exchanges following every movement of China like a salve - it is wired into all the bots and the strategies of all the traders - like an automated process. Anyone who thinks China isn't still leading is fooling themselves. So what happens if China is removed from the equation completely? Nobody knows where the drop would end, where real support on other exchanges would kick in, and what the true value is without China. It is some variable anywhere from $90 to $900. It is a mystery. Sure the news adds value but from what basis? Let's say overstock adds $50. $900 + $50 = $950. But also $90 + $50 = $140. Nobody knows so they are cautious.
A lot of your analysis is very good, but this is seriously off-track. China was not the primary mover from $110 to $1242, it was SecondMarket and other investor/financial/Wall Street types tailgating on their initiative, plus the Vancouver ATM news. China added fuel to the fire. Say that China was 40% of the rally. Well, China is not going to zero, even after all the controls are in, it may contract 50%. So that leaves 80% of the mega-move intact. Then add Overstock, enthusiasm in LATAM countries, etc. The $800 level looks solid unless there is some seriously bad news like a major Western government trying a dumb "banning" stunt. And Silk Road crash went all down to 70$, lasted for few hours only and recovery had heck all to do with China.
|
|
|
|
seleme
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1028
Duelbits.com
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 10, 2014, 01:46:40 AM |
|
China was not the primary mover from $110 to $1242
It is evident that all the markets, including China, have been tied together to this day. Since its volume is 5x that of any other market, its is a reasonable guess that it is the elephant that is dragging the dog rather than the other way around. Whoever is the leader, the reaction on the others is very quick. Perhaps one can tell who is the leader by looking at the minute-by-minute trade data. (Methinks that it does not matter whether the Huobi volume is due to humans or robots. Manual day traders generally use "dumb" strategies that make them behave like robots, only slower ones.) Much of chinas exchange volume was non-Chinese. And much was fake ![Tongue](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
|
|
|
|
bitbrasil
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 10, 2014, 01:54:54 AM |
|
As others have pointed out, people buying things with bitcoins (whether through Bitpay or similar service, as seems to be generally the case, or by direct barter) is the same thing as selling them. Besides acting to lower the price of bitcoin, that is the opposite of "hodling", right?
Ordinary people still have no reason to use bitcoins (rather than old money) to buy things on retailers like Overstock. So that option should not bring more old money (USD etc) to the Bitcoin market.
Speculators and miners who want to leave the Bitcoin game now have the option to cash out in merchandise (at a few merchants) rather than in old money. That only makes it a bit easier for them to decide to leave, and hence take old money out of the market.
So the Overstock news is "good news" only for True Believers, who did not need it to believe anyway...
A big brand using Bitcoin is good for marketing. More people will hear about it. So this should bring more "old money" to the bitcoin market.
|
|
|
|
|