Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[free-bit.co.in]

Yeah, Bitcoin fees are no fun, but Ethereum has it worse especially for transferring tokens and using Uniswap (Uniswap low fee is around $70)..

Segwit lowered the bitcoin tx fee for at least 30%, but we need still to look into ways too improve the Bitcoin on-chain network..the Lighting network is a big improvement but still needs some time that I can use it anywhere.

[JayJuanGee]

PoS ain't happening for Bitcoin. Sure, any altcoin can do it, go ahead.

I agree.  Sort of.  But what stops there from being a fork backed by this "initiative"?

I hope you are right... Maybe I forgot that bitcoin does not give a crap about any "Crypto somethingornother Initiative".

Nothing. Forks happen. It will be... a .. "fork", and not Bitcoin, even if they use the same name. Bitcoin Gold, Diamond, Black, Cash, SV, ... BitcoinFork... does not matter.

We will have an opportunity to split whatever fork coins they make. It's all going back to Bitcoin.

Going to continue as the devil's advocate here, trying to think adversarially.

If they do this they will have a lot of money and high level marketing behind it along with the attention of politicians.  I think it could be a bumpier road than the last fork adventure.

And ... what about all the miners and all time hash rates? They're going to stick to the original. The fork can do PoS if they want.

Ah yes.  That's a tremendous point.  So miners and USAF type users will definitely be aligned in this scenario unlike last time.  That's a fairly large contingent.  I think the majority of influential DEVs are also all in the PoW camp.

Get the fuck out of here with your devil's advocate analysis as if there were any kind of valid claim that POS has any kind of chance in bitcoinlandia.

What the fuck made bitcoin in the first place?  Nearly the whole contribution of bitcoin to the paradigm shifting invention of something that actually solved the double spend problem is proof of work.. if you don't have proof of work you don't have shit.. and almost anyone who is anyone understands that basic fact of what distinguishes bitcoin into the powerhouse and the greatest transfer of wealth in history.. even in spite of a few propaganda speed bumps along the way.

I am still not ready to write off the possibility of this agenda getting pushed.

You did some similar devil's advocate analysis with the BIG blocker nonsense too, if I recall correctly.

Get a fucking grip, cAPSLOCK... #nohomo.

That said, what I think is GOOD about this group is they may be able to figure out some interoperability for their platforms by using something like Liquid, or even establishing their own trusted or federated ledger so that you can do transfers between themn off chain.  Again, I will not likely be using any of these services in any meaningful amount.  But MANY will.

We will see how their various services play out..   and yeah if they create some second-layer systems on top of bitcoin that happen to be some kind of proof of stake, that is not bitcoin..   Don't get confused with bitcoin and systems that are built upon bitcoin..   Bitcoin has proof of work and systems that are built upon it do not necessarily have to have proof of work in order to still be potentially valid system.. and actually, it can be argued that systems built upon bitcoin do not need proof of work because bitcoin already has it... those kinds of systems that are building upon bitcoin are not replacing bitcoin they are complementing it and linking to it.. and bitcoin is doing the final validation of whatever had taken place on their side systems, consortiums or whatever they want to call their various alliances.

Ugh.  Someone whose opinion I respect (Beautyon the Aztec.co fellow) also seems to have gone down the more paranoid thought path about this same issue...  He makes some good points... but sounds even more alarmed than me.

Is that even possible?

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1379710923888279552.html

Yes it is.

[friends1980]

Buying the top and hodling hard beyond a new ATH is part of the transformation to a Bitcoiner, isn't it?

If it doesn't kill you, it makes you poorer.

Now that's the birth of a new proverb  

What doesn't kill you makes you poorer

+1 WOsMerit

Covered a "boring" one for you 

Hey thanks I just realized I surpassed my first 500 "real" Merits!

[JayJuanGee]

Poor again.

Come on show us your new buy orders?  

Au contraire, I just fired off a transaction to load some coin onto the exchange. Not sure when I'm going to pull the trigger, but going to take another low 7 digits in profit to calm me down. Shouldn't need to sell any more until the ranch gets nearer to completion; at least a year away.

Heard back from our accountant, and quarterly reporting is pushed out for another month, so I have more time for a price recovery. Would like to go at least a full quarter before I consider selling again, and even then, that'll likely be a big *IF* depending on circumstances.

everyone buys and sells when they must...that's all.

You can create your own "must" situations.  just saying that bitcoin should really give many folks a lot of options, at least for those who had taken a decent position that is somewhat tailored to their situation and also had allowed the passage of time to help to ensure that their position is in profits (and may well be quite considerable profits, which merely provides more options as compared with positions that are in less profits or not in profits).

When your brain is in it's prime (maybe between 10 years old and 35 - just guessing), you could memorize 24 words in an hour or so.. As you get older, or if you might start to suffer deteriorations, you might need a day or even up to a week... so a week at most for memorizing 24 words - absent some cognitive impairment.

Building the words into a story would probably be the way to go. Rote memorization of arbitrary things is difficult.

Ok... fair enough... so yeah maybe quadruple the times that I previously allotted.. and sure maybe we are getting to the point that was previously made that it could take some folks a month to memorize 24 words.. perhaps.

I understand with some hoop jumping that lightning network could have been built without Segwit, but isn't Segwit a foundational layer to lightning network being practically developed? - so in other words, there might not be any need to tout the underlying technology of lightning network (Segwit) even though it is a kind of necessary condition that makes lightning network way more practical... and of course, other second layer solutions that are likely to continue to develop in the years to come are also built upon Segwit - again without having to tout Segwit because Segwit is just a done deal.. so over that.. from August 2017 (even though some folks whined for months and months and months about Segwit, but their whining is kind of (absent little digs from some continuing bitter ones who cannot really seem to get over it.. no names.. Richy_T.. cough cough..) drying up after 3.5 years when they are kind of figuring out that the whining is not really doing much, if any, good..(absent little digs from some continuing bitter ones who cannot really seem to get over it.. no names.. Richy_T.. cough cough..) because Segwit is just so much a part of our current little fiend, aka bitcoin and the transition to Segwit is so over, done and kuput. and no need to really talk about it(absent little digs from some continuing bitter ones who cannot really seem to get over it.. no names.. Richy_T.. cough cough..).

Segwit absolutely was being touted as a capacity increase, being as how, theoretically, it allows around 4 times the data. The truth is, however, with segwit, block sizes have plateaued at 1.3MB, a trivial 30% increase and it must be remembered that segwit transactions are bigger than traditional bitcoin transactions too.

Segwit also came about as a compromise solution in regards to some of the phoney baloney that was being touted around in late 2015...and then yeah it took several months to code and to test so it did not go into the code until late 2016.. and then the various shenanigans in 2017 that ultimately got it passed in August 2017...   I doubt it is either a simple story and also your desire to want to but marketing labels on it seems a bit disingenuous, and we also know that once it passed (overwhelmingly by the way) then it was a done deal so I have some difficulties understanding value in continuing to whine about something that is already live... and suggesting that it is not helpful blah blah blah.. as if you are going to persuade people to retract it by suggesting that it is not living up to the hype or whatever, and it does seem to have more than just the narrow purposes that you are proclaiming that it was marketed for.

I don't think it's pertinent to not mention the issue because, simply, it hasn't gone away, as much as it may make some uncomfortable and want to stick their fingers in their ears and shout "la la la", it's an ongoing problem.

I doubt that is what is happening. You seem to be presuming problems that do not exist...

I regularly see old principles of Bitcoin touted here, fungibility, low friction, security and so on, but the truth is that the capacity issue restricts that and other potential advantages, just as the 56k modems we are currently flinging around images of would have crippled streaming if we hadn't moved beyond them. I'll also add that I'm not throwing this out there randomly but only mentioning it when it is relevant (in this case, in reference as to why alts have stolen so much of the market share).

Seems to be a bit random to me.. and I don't really consider the supposed problem to be as much as you are wanting to make it out.. including the bullshit loss of market share that you are suggesting to be supposedly relevant.

Now, although I don't buy into it, the argument that increased block size would damage decentralization could be made but that doesn't mean that you get to ignore those other very real effects of limiting it.

These are old discussion points and seems that the overwhelming evidence remains that small blocks good.. big blocks bad.. so why do we need to discuss further on something that had been resolved around 3.5 years ago, and then we got various bcasher nutjober coins that actually implemented the bigblock nonsense.. and they surely have not been proving any BIG block good thesis.. in fact the opposite seems to be the case with the factual evidence related to those scam coins that pursue your big blocker desires.

Listing pros and cons doesn't involve just throwing away things that don't go your way and pretending that very real things that are happening aren't is not a good way to have a good handle on reality. $20+ fees do not provide a good on-ramp to Bitcoin. Where do you think people are going to go?

Well if people are interested in their long term security they are mostly going to keep their value on bitcoin, and sure maybe they might use some scam shitcoins for transacting or even for getting involved in various other scam coins.. I don't know.. the evidence seems to be that people are going to bitcoin rather than the various other coins that you are proclaiming to be taking away market share.. and yeah.., get the fuck out of here and go to those coins if you believe that there is anything that is even close to bitcoin for your purposes or whatever, and let's see what happens... each of us is free to make our choices regarding how much to allocate towards bitcoin as compared to other projects and to tweak along the way.. seems to me that bitcoin remains the best overall without anything that is even close, but sure, you can come to your own conclusions and either partially or fully reallocate to those various shitcoins.. By the way, there were quite a few folks that got fucked pretty badly by historically selling their bitcoins and then getting into other coins in the belief that bitcoin was broken or that the various shitcoin(s) were reasonable alternative bets.. maybe they (you) will get lucky this time?  Perhaps?  Perhaps?  I doubt it, but perhaps.

[El duderino_]

Time for a well earned HODLsleep

[Richy_T]

[Lots of stuff, as usual]

All very nice stuff. Completely fails to address the arguments I made (which are not for altcoins or big blocks or anything like that, merely that if you restrict capacity, the thing complained about is merely an expected outcome), of course so I'm not going to bother addressing most of it. The idea that "We had the discussion about the tire being flat yesterday and I didn't do anything about it" in any way stops the tire from being flat today and still needing to be fixed is asinine.

However, if you continue to refuse to countenance discussion of factors which might be influencing price or adoption, I heartily recommend this link



I will, myself, continue to listen to many voices including those with whom I am not in agreement. Echo chambers are such a bore.

[Biodom]

I will, myself, continue to listen to many voices including those with whom I am not in agreement. Echo chambers are such a bore.

If so...OT..check out this:
https://apnews.com/article/results-2-experiments-defy-physics-rulebook-ac6949b41669b02cecf1143c8d09edb2
Many 'strange' results recently.
A loose electrical cord or Standard Model will cease to be a "Standard" in 1-2 years (if data is confirmed).
15% difference is a lot.

[Richy_T]

If so...OT..check out this:
https://apnews.com/article/results-2-experiments-defy-physics-rulebook-ac6949b41669b02cecf1143c8d09edb2
Many 'strange' results recently.
A loose electrical cord or Standard Model will cease to be a "Standard" in 1-2 years (if data is confirmed).
15% difference is a lot.

Normally when claims of breaking the laws of physics are made, I'm very skeptical but when you're talking elementary particles, I think there's a whole lot more we need to know there. Of course, the laws will just need to be revised if anything comes of it.

[Torque]

So Bitcoin trades off, whilst there be one last big pump into the absolute shittiest of shitcoins...bottom of the barrel.

Hmmm...nice one, bears.

Yeah, we know what you're up to. And it won't work. We've all seen this bear trap movie before.

[cAPSLOCK]

words

Damn JJG you like to wag both your finger and your tongue.

Thinking if there is some kind of bet that can be made for whether or not NYA 2.0 attempts to make changes to the protocol...  It would need to be specific.

[Heater]

https://twitter.com/BitcoinCarl_/status/1379770493453107200?s=20


Tetranode is a classic shitcoiner. Watch yourself and draw your own conclusion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDxcj4lypSQ

He started off alright just stacking sats, was worried about the block size (okay I can understand that) and rage quit and sold all his BTC for ETH.

Now he's a full on shitcoiner chasing the next DeFi scam and thinks it's funny when he found out that the devs are just teenagers in their mon's basement or that he gets 'rugged' every now and then.

Seriously? The future of finance is 'coin-a-nomics' or that you get rugged every now and then?

Normal people don't treat their money like this and never will. He honestly thinks ETH will flippen bitcoin. Not. going. to. happen.

[lightfoot]

So people are putting money *into* bitcoin (g)old?

Jesus, I probably still have some of that shit in old wallets. I wonder if you can just load the seed codes into a BTG browser, and get the crap to an exchange for BTC like I did with that bitcoin trash....

[Paashaas]

Patience is a virtue.


https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/bitcoin-lightning-network-cryptocurrency-b1827816.html?utm_content=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1617814631

[Hueristic]

I will, myself, continue to listen to many voices including those with whom I am not in agreement. Echo chambers are such a bore.

If so...OT..check out this:
https://apnews.com/article/results-2-experiments-defy-physics-rulebook-ac6949b41669b02cecf1143c8d09edb2
Many 'strange' results recently.
A loose electrical cord or Standard Model will cease to be a "Standard" in 1-2 years (if data is confirmed).
15% difference is a lot.

Damn, is this guy a Zombie or a Mummy?

[marcus_of_augustus]

^ looking deeply into the dark recesses of the laws of particle physics will do this to you ...

[JayJuanGee]

... Where do you think people are going to go?

They can (and have) gone to BCH or BSV. You still sound a like a big blocker even if you say you're not. Segwit has lowered the fees that otherwise non-segwit transactions would pay.

Yes, exactly, they went to the various bcashes in droves in 2017 and then 2018 and even though they thought that they might be able to experience longer term pumpenings, those shitcoins that incorportated the BIG blocker philosophies died on the vine for the lackenings in foresight that they represented.. the faulty balance to that took sound incentive systems in bitcoin and convert them into scam incentives and bundles of no doesn't work.... so even though they left, many of them come back with their tails between their legs, but some of them remain arrogant and cannot admit that they were wrong.. they still believe in that crap.. maybe they even HODL some of those bags too.. because why would you go spouting off your beliefs about nonsense BIGblocker bullshit that has been shown to NOT achieve what it proclaims and NOT hold some of that vision through your pocket book (yes never ending dropping value,... but hey whatever, vision means hanging onto the dream, even if it goes to zero.. which it is likely to do, even if it might take another 5 to 20 years to completely get there.. depending on which piece of shit bcash vision that you might happen to hold.

Buying the top and hodling hard beyond a new ATH is part of the transformation to a Bitcoiner, isn't it?

If it doesn't kill you, it makes you poorer.

Now that's the birth of a new proverb  

What doesn't kill you makes you poorer

+1 WOsMerit

Covered a "boring" one for you 

Hey thanks I just realized I surpassed my first 500 "real" Merits!

They are all real, even if you earned them (due to airdrop) because of your services to the forum (even being a bump on the log) prior to January 24, 2018 when the merit system was implemented ...#just saying

  The idea that "We had the discussion about the tire being flat yesterday and I didn't do anything about it" in any way stops the tire from being flat today and still needing to be fixed is asinine.

Yes.. if we assume that the tire was flat yesterday and we assume that it did not get fixed, then we can also thereby assume that there are still needs to discuss such topic, which does not seem to be the case here.. .. but hey, there does remain some possibilities that you might end up saying something at some point in regards to BIG blocks or Segwit or whatever your ongoing variations of those complaints that actually does need to be addressed in these here parts.. .. perhaps.  Perhaps.  I am not going to hold my breath, but I won't completely rule out the possibility, either.   

 

[Richy_T]

Damn, is this guy a Zombie or a Mummy?

Yeah, I thought he must be some kind of animatronic when I first saw it. I think he's not been turning off the supercollider when he sticks his head in.

[Richy_T]

I am not going to hold my breath,

But that's the second-layer way.

[JayJuanGee]

words

Damn JJG you like to wag both your finger and your tongue.

That be called koreck, and other parts too.. but I am not going to show any pics... like some peeps.

And, by the way, you largely avoided the substance of my post.. but whatevers.. I stand by it.

Thinking if there is some kind of bet that can be made for whether or not NYA 2.0 attempts to make changes to the protocol...  It would need to be specific.

Fair enough point, if you put it like that.. and surely some kind of short timeline would be nice, but we are used to some bets getting placed a year or so in advance.. so there is that angle, too.

I am not going to hold my breath,

But that's the second-layer way.

You cannot be presuming in this here thread that second layer is automatically bad, can you?

Some of the shitcoins, even the bcash ones that you seem to like may well end up still serving some kind of purpose because they still function but they may well be relying on the security that is provided by the bitcoin .. the king daddy.. You even stated that you used litecoin for some transaction, and sure those shitty and not very used coins could still be used to transact value.. but they would not be alive at all if it were not for the security blanket provided to the whole space by king daddy... so yeah, let's say that you have $100k... and $95k might be held in bitcoin and maybe $4k to $5k would be in various other services such as lightning.. but then maybe you might use some shitcoin such as litecoin or one of the bcashes to the extent that they might continue to exist rather than scamming themselves out of even functioning.. so yeah, you could use those lighter trafficked coins for some transactions to buy coffee or buy that $5 to $1,000 good or service that you are aiming to buy but not wanting to pay $20 to $100 in BTC transaction fees..   but if you need to move your $95k, you might not mind paying $20 to $100 in fees to do that.

[fillippone]

Funny read I foun on that nichilist used to be intriguing website called ZeroHedge.

Scenes From 2030

“Hi, dude!”

“Oh. Hi. How are you?”

“I’m good. How do you like my shoes?”

“Nice. Are those…”

“Yeah. The original Nike Lil Nas X Satan’s Shoes, version 2030.”

“Wow. But don’t those cost a fortune? How can you afford them, with just the Universal Basic Income?”

“Well, duh. I didn’t buy them, dude. I’m just renting them from Amazon Prime, of course. All of my clothes are rented, including the original Calvin Klein underwear.”

<continue...>

As he focus on social interaction he forgot to mention that the 2030 brain implant is priced at 1 million satoshi.

EDIT1:
In a more serious note:

Bloomberg Crypto Outlook
Rising Bitcoin Adoption Tide
05 April 2021



https://fillippone.altervista.org/1060725_Crypto-Apr2021Outlook.pdf

ï‚· Electricity, Internet, Bitcoin, Digitalization, Dollar Dominance
ï‚· Bitcoin Fills the Digital Reserve-Asset Need in Low-Yield World
ï‚· Bitcoin Replacing Old-Guard Gold Is More Sudden Than Gradual
ï‚· Dollar's Digital Dominance Eclipsing China Yuan Global Adoption
ï‚· Grayscale Bitcoin Trust Is Gaining the Upper Hand Over Tesla

EDIT2:
Document on Coinbase listing target price $460.

Atlantic Equities
Coinbase Global Inc.
1 April 2021



https://fillippone.altervista.org/CoinbaseListing.pdf

Just only one detail:

Overweight
Price Target $460.00