Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Biodom]

LOYCE is likely to be correct.


THE point I started here is it is very likely USA people will face a tax on this windfall.

Worst case is 20% due Sept 16 2024 assuming you get it before Sept 16 2024.

So anyone with tax savvy experience is cashing and paying the 15 or 20 percent tax ASAP.

THINK ABOUT IT let's take someone that had 50 coins or 32500. They likely took a lost on that in 2014.

THEY NOW recover 10 coins worth 65000k each. Since they were declared a loss in 2014 it would be a 650,000 gain. It is possible it may not be capital gain which is even worse.

I based it as capital gain. I am certain that you are not getting an IRS ruling on what to do. So paying the cap tax ASAP is the sefeest most conservative thing to do.

Thus I am thinking as much as 30% of coins are getting sold ASAP when it comes to USA holders.

There is no way I would let a 650000 score that drops to 520000.  With 1 simple payment in Sept. Turn into a big fuckup because I did not pay. IF COINS TANK to 20k and I waited til April 2025 I still pay 20% of the 650000. Which is 130000 tax.

IF I pay quick Ì have 8 coins left
IF I pay slow I have maybe 3.5 coins left.

The idea that my way gives me 8 coins of ten coins
THE DELAY could give more if coins go up or far less if coins drop and paying a penalty to boot.

I am not sure why you think about it as INCOME, though.
What happened is that you had property, then you lost all of it and now 25% of it was returned. Where is the income here?
Say, you were walking on the street and five twenties fell out of your pocket and disappear to the wind. A nice soul saw this, found one $20 bill and give it to you back.
Would you think about that $20 as income? I don't think so.
So, i would ask again...where is the income here?
Returning PART of the loss is not income, but a partial restitution...from my point of view, but contact CPA, of course.

[LoyceV]

There is no way I would let a 650000 score that drops to 520000.  With 1 simple payment in Sept. Turn into a big fuckup because I did not pay. IF COINS TANK to 20k and I waited til April 2025 I still pay 20% of the 650000. Which is 130000 tax.

Is getting back the coins a taxable event, even if you don't sell them? I'd expect you'd have to pay the gains tax only if you sell them.

[Biodom]

There is no way I would let a 650000 score that drops to 520000.  With 1 simple payment in Sept. Turn into a big fuckup because I did not pay. IF COINS TANK to 20k and I waited til April 2025 I still pay 20% of the 650000. Which is 130000 tax.

Is getting back the coins a taxable event, even if you don't sell them? I'd expect you'd have to pay the gains tax only if you sell them.

EXACTLY...not sure why Phil thinks of it as income when partial restitution would be more appropriate, imho.
EDIT: I think below summarizes it nicely, in broad strokes, but more exact read of the court documents is needed to come to a conclusion.
https://www.thetaxadviser.com/issues/2021/jul/tax-consequences-settlements-judgments.html

TL;DR It depends on the court judgement language, etc.

[Bitcoin Smith]

Anyone one of you guyz?

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Is getting back the coins a taxable event, even if you don't sell them? I'd expect you'd have to pay the gains tax only if you sell them.

I would imagine not, it’s only taxable if you sell and even then it should be at a lower capital gains tax rate rather than potentially higher income tax rate.

And if you reside in a country that taxes unrealised gains then get the hell out of there.

[LoyceV]

And if you reside in a country that taxes unrealised gains then get the hell out of there.

Easier said than done, especially with young kids.

[OutOfMemory]

Is getting back the coins a taxable event, even if you don't sell them? I'd expect you'd have to pay the gains tax only if you sell them.

I would imagine not, it’s only taxable if you sell and even then it should be at a lower capital gains tax rate rather than potentially higher income tax rate.

And if you reside in a country that taxes unrealised gains then get the hell out of there.

For me, selling BTC for stablecoins is not taxable. So i could sell quite a lot of corn anytime, then cash out in fractions when i need the money, so i can conveniently include the tax amount (or put the money back in BTC in the next bear market). This is actually convenient BUT y'all know the risks with stablecoins, ERC-20 and holding large sums on exchanges, so this comes with at least one caveat.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

I am from the UK, Bitcoin is currently taxable as Capital Gains which is 20% on profits. We have a newly elected leftie government and they love to tax the well off so watch this space.

I have an Irish passport (EU) through my grandparents so if I need to leave to a more friendly tax environment I will have to.

[Biodom]

A weird day on the market: large pharma stocks are flying upwards, NVDA is down 7%, crushing the Nasdaq.
Bitcoin is in the middle, not much action so far.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[aesma]

I am not too excited about some of the seeming pushes for all electric - even though there might be some practical uses for such, and it seems that battery technology is not at such a state that commercial airlines would be able to fly if there were to be some kind of an all electric design for such, so there are some problematic aspects around some all electric applications, though it may have some reeasonable applications.. but yeah there are likely also problems with all electric in real hot or real cold climates (seasons), too...

The problem with electrical flight is energy density, for some reason you can't trick physics.

Add pedals to the passengers' seats.

[El duderino_]

https://x.com/rovercrc/status/1813598282691833908?s=46

Is this correct?

[OutOfMemory]

https://x.com/rovercrc/status/1813598282691833908?s=46

Is this correct?

Not exactly, IMO.
Kraken sent out an Email that they received all the(ir) creditors bitcoins and will distribute the amounts set by the trustee to the according user wallets within 7-14 days, IIRC.
So 65% might well be off Gox* wallets, but less received by customers, yet. Is the fiat part of repayments done already? AFAIR this should have been the first outflow of Gox trustee's holdings.

EDIT: Gox wallets are emptied to 0.12 BTC total, as i just checked the other minute. The trustee might have grouped amounts in different wallets to simplify transfers to exchanges. I haven't heard of any other exchanges actually distributing GoxBTC to their users, but maybe the remaining 35% are those of coinbase?
 

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[WatChe]

I have no objection to your idea of taking advantage of BTC price corrections, but fuck your dumbass characterization of a correction (or just one aspect of BTC consolidation) as if it were a bear session.. that is dumb as fuck, even if you are using the word "session" rather than "market."  Your use of the term "bear session" versus "bear market" does not save you from such a misleading (and maybe misinformed) perception of where we are at, how we got hear or maybe where we are going.. since using the term bear is misleading.. See my post from earlier today.. even though I am not even sure if I am responding very much besides just proclaiming that we are not in any kind of "bear.. blah blah blah".. since how can you be in a "bear.. blah blah blah" if you happen to already be in a bull... so both a bear and a bull cannot simultaneously exist, and we happen to be in a bull.. but no.... some folks want to suggest (mislead or just speak gobbledy-gook) by trying to suggest that a bear exists within a bull.. It makes absolutely no sense... and they need to either fix their way of thinking and/or fix their ways of presenting such bear/bull ideas.

Your idea of being in bull market is primarily based on 200-WMA and that's correct because from November last year price of Bitcoin has gone up  considerably as compared to 200 WMA. As on Jul 14, 2024 Price of Bitcoin was 59152$ while 200 WMA was 36835$. If we stick with 200 WMA then we will remain in bull season for coming months.  

[OgNasty]

Let me clear up some misinformation being spouted. First of all, kraken got user funds they will be distributing next week or the following week to individuals. Secondly, settlements aren’t taxed as capital gains. Selling to pay taxes on these coins is a thing that will happen. Many people will likely owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes based on their distribution regardless of what they do with the coins. The idea there won’t be selling is a fairytale.

[STINKYBEE]

2010- no one uses it.
2012- only computer nerds use it.
2013- only drug dealers use it.
2014- only money launderers use it.
2017- only gamblers use it.
2019- only a small percent of the population use it.
2020- only small companies use it.
2024- only BlackRock, Fidelity and 9 other spot etfs providers use it.

[Hueristic]

Let me clear up some misinformation being spouted. First of all, kraken got user funds they will be distributing next week or the following week to individuals. Secondly, settlements aren’t taxed as capital gains. Selling to pay taxes on these coins is a thing that will happen. Many people will likely owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes based on their distribution regardless of what they do with the coins. The idea there won’t be selling is a fairytale.

You just can' help yourself, can you?

Are you shorting still?

[OgNasty]

Let me clear up some misinformation being spouted. First of all, kraken got user funds they will be distributing next week or the following week to individuals. Secondly, settlements aren’t taxed as capital gains. Selling to pay taxes on these coins is a thing that will happen. Many people will likely owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes based on their distribution regardless of what they do with the coins. The idea there won’t be selling is a fairytale.

You just can' help yourself, can you?

Are you shorting still?

What can I say, correcting misinformation as an involved party is my weakness. Always has been on this forum. I just wonder why the statement of fact to correct misinformation bothers some people so much.

I’ve never shorted Bitcoin (see, that whole correcting misinformation thing). That would be insane. I actually am irresponsibly long and expecting BTC to be at least $135K by next April.