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Question: Is the "bear market" over?
Yes - 42 (40%)
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No - other (explain below) - 15 (14.3%)
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 27060453 times)
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October 04, 2026, 07:02:07 PM


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October 04, 2026, 07:05:42 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (2), xhomerx10 (1), AlcoHoDL (1)

So just some Sunday musings.

I wrote a haiku a couple days ago about history rhyming, suggesting that we could see something reminiscent of 2017.

I was not specific, obviously. 17 syllables don't really have the room for specificity.  But since then, I've seen a couple themes emerge that I would like to interject my opinion of.

One is that history is going to repeat.  I do not think that this is likely, which was why I believe I chose the word "rhymes". Just a bit more on that in a moment.

The second thing was the idea that if 2017 is repeating, since we have passed the euphoric bubble pop part of the cycle, we are in for a year of darkness and decline.  But not only does this rely on the idea of history repeating again, but it also is adhering strongly to the Bitcoin cycle dynamics that we might expect.

I certainly think the bitcoin halving schedule has seemed to influence its value fairly directly through mechanisms that are easy to explain.  Interestingly, many people like to make fun of that plan B person, but the halving cycle theory really is revolving entirely around stock to flow.

Recently, people have been plotting the Bitcoin price in conjunction with the macroeconomic tide measured by what is called the "Business Cycle".  Interestingly, the business cycle and the four-year halving schedule have been somewhat in sync since the early 2010s, and have only recently showed some divergence in the last six or seven years.  Arguably, this divergence was heavily influenced by the COVID worldwide event.  This was a major dampening factor at a time we might expect expansion of economic forces and money supply.

And interestingly, Bitcoin's price behavior over what could be called the current cycle and the one before it actually, lines up quite well with the flattened peak in the business cycle that happened between 2020 and 2023 or so.

I would argue that Bitcoin's having cycle, as well as the business cycle, and the global monetary supply, among other things, are all working together to influence Bitcoin's price direction.  We really did not see what we would call a blow-off top this last October, nor on the cycle peak from before (FTX also a big deal).

If we work from a purely Bitcoin cycle perspective, then we would assume that our peaks and valleys would probably soften a bit over time as they seem to have.  But the timings seem to coincide more with the disrupted worldwide business cycle.

So I think this could lead in one of two directions.

If the Bitcoin cycle is the dominant input in the equation, then we should be seeing lower highs and higher lows as volatility is reduced as the Bitcoin supply begins to crystallize.

But if the business cycle is the primary input, then we might expect something slightly more chaotic.  The world economy is under dire pressure currently.  And I would argue that we are in somewhat uncharted territory with the current state of the US dollar, China's move towards gold, and the rise in interest from nation states and big business holding Bitcoin as a reserve asset.

Bitcoin's run-up during the 2017 cycle period was clean, breathtaking, parabolic, and euphoric.

We have not seen a move like that since, in my opinion.

My idea is simply that there is a non-zero chance that we could see something more like the classic Bitcoin run-ups of the past.  Of course, this is not a certainty because I could be wrong about what I think is influencing Bitcoin. And there could be some kind of humongous black swan event on the horizon, some other plague or something to do with wars or one of many other instabilities.

So my point is simply that I think we stand to see a strong price appreciation in the relatively near term.  And that it might remind us more of past cycles than what we have been experiencing over the last five years or so.

cAPSLOCK IS A BULL.
cAPSLOCK IS ALWAYS A BULL.
cAPSLOCK JUST WON'T HUSH.
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October 04, 2026, 07:58:50 PM
Merited by xhomerx10 (1), cAPSLOCK (1), AlcoHoDL (1)

I can only read the beginning. I think we oldtimers are not in the same position she is in obviously, but I was OK with it, until I read she was counting on BTC to retire in a couple of years and had started buying at 104K.

Yeah, lady, that will probably not happen. Also, "never selling" and "living off BTC in a couple of years" isn't really compatible.
I hope that "we" (includes the lady) can live off lending BTC within the next 10 years.

Lending would make some of the matters easier, and perhaps justifiable with ONLY parts of our BTC stash. 

Historically in bitcoinlandia, there have been so many ways that lending and 3rd party custody has not been working itself out, and yeah, much better to not get rug pulled by the third party..and of course, there would end up being reporting requirements for any BTC being held as collateral.

By the way, having extra bitcoin does seem to help for any loaning situation, and of course, my own calculations of what I perceive the lady's situation (in the article) to be, it appears to me that, even under the better of scenarios, the lady (whether starting to accumulate 2025 or late 2024) would not necessarily have very much, if any, extra bitcoin to work with.

Because you gentlemen asked so nicely, I put a limit sell order when I was seeing ~US$85,220 but in CAD and slightly higher not only to get the maker rate but also because I like round numbers.  Being Sunday and because it's is a CAD book, volume is pretty low so I expected to wait a while.  It still only took about 10 minutes for the exchange to chew through my wall.  Seems bullish; no doubt we will experience some Uptober vibes.

 Damn it!  This money is burning a whole in my pocket now... time to turn it into a depreciating asset to amplify the regret  Wink

You buying ice cream cones for the whole Homer barrio?

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

2017
All of us remember it
History will rhyme
I remember in Dec 2017 price of Bitcoin went high to 19k, which was its new ATH of that time. Year after in Dec 2018, price of Bitcoin was around 3.5k bearish period continued for next few years.

On Oct 10, 2025 price of Bitcoin was at ATH of 125k and year after we are at 85k. If history is repeating pattern of 2017 then we will see long bearish period starting from Oct 2025.    

That is one way of looking at the matter, and surely you seem inclined to get recked - either by your selling btc at wrong times (or intra cycle) and/or by your failures/refusals to get sufficiently bullish with such downity and/or flat expectations.

Based on context and also cAPSLOCK's earlier "holding the ball under water" characterization of the situation, I would suggest that cAPSLOCK was considering our current price dynamics poster from early 2017 rather than from after the top already being reached (as you are thinking about the top being October 2025), yet of course, after reading cAPSLOCK's most recent post, I am not going to proclaim that for sure he had been referring to us being in an early 2017 kind of a situation rather than in a post-2017 situation.. even though we never really had any great UPpity explosions after 2017.. so the most logical reference seems to be that cAPSLOCK has been suggesting that we may well be in early 2017 rather than after 2017.

By the way the top of the 2025 prices was October 6 (and not October 10), even though there was a relatively big crashening on October 10 that seemed to have had led the subsequent further crash into November 2025 and thereafter down to our so far June 2026 low of $57,735.

If you are suggesting that we might be going into a long bearish period, you are suggesting that we are currently in 2018 and the lowest point is not in yet? or maybe you are mixing up your years, since 2019 was a considerable relieving year, even though we had some corrections in late 2019 and early 2020 as many of us recall...so then if you are concluding that the whole of 2018 through 2020 is the long bearish period, the parallel (or the comparison points) is surely not very obvious from the perspective of this here kitty cat.

If you were thinking about the long "bearish" period (or at least flat period) of 2015, then sure, that 2015 period surely was a long and flat period that came after a whole prior year (referring to 2014) of decline. 

Either proclamation of flat (or decline) whether referring to the period of 2015 or even the period of 2019 and 2020, seem to be a

As to the fairy, I'm afraid she's caught whatever it is I have.


Fairy looks cheerful, but those bulls?  They do not.
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October 04, 2026, 08:02:07 PM


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October 04, 2026, 09:02:08 PM


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October 04, 2026, 09:11:15 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

~snip

Because you gentlemen asked so nicely, I put a limit sell order when I was seeing ~US$85,220 but in CAD and slightly higher not only to get the maker rate but also because I like round numbers.  Being Sunday and because it's is a CAD book, volume is pretty low so I expected to wait a while.  It still only took about 10 minutes for the exchange to chew through my wall.  Seems bullish; no doubt we will experience some Uptober vibes.

 Damn it!  This money is burning a whole in my pocket now... time to turn it into a depreciating asset to amplify the regret  Wink

You buying ice cream cones for the whole Homer barrio?

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


 Aw JJG.  They're all away at school, too busy studying (or what have you) and have no time for me - not even for free ice cream.  You're making me cry.
I thought about renting a soft-serve truck and driving around the neighborhood offering free ice cream but no doubt many would take it the wrong way.  We'll all be together next weekend for thanksgiving so the turkey's on me.  (not literally because again...)
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October 04, 2026, 09:17:58 PM

Meanwhile, we're back over 86k. Is she waking up?
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October 04, 2026, 09:26:06 PM

Meanwhile, we're back over 86k. Is she waking up?

I can't look now or the magic wears off.  Let me know when you're all twice as wealthy in your local fiat currency equivalents.
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October 04, 2026, 09:32:33 PM
Merited by philipma1957 (1), xhomerx10 (1), JayJuanGee (1), AlcoHoDL (1)

Forbidden knowledge
She may peak but you can't peek
Thanks for the selling




#haiku
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October 04, 2026, 09:35:12 PM

Forbidden knowledge
She may peak but you can't peek
Thanks for the selling




#haiku

 Wow!  That's a really good one.
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October 04, 2026, 10:16:41 PM


Based on context and also cAPSLOCK's earlier "holding the ball under water" characterization of the situation, I would suggest that cAPSLOCK was considering our current price dynamics poster from early 2017 rather than from after the top already being reached (as you are thinking about the top being October 2025), yet of course, after reading cAPSLOCK's most recent post, I am not going to proclaim that for sure he had been referring to us being in an early 2017 kind of a situation rather than in a post-2017 situation.. even though we never really had any great UPpity explosions after 2017.. so the most logical reference seems to be that cAPSLOCK has been suggesting that we may well be in early 2017 rather than after 2017.


Yes, my reference was to consider the bull run of 2017. Not the bubble pop, which if I remember correctly happened around Christmas.

Let me just take a really big hit off of my Hopium pipe real quick and then I'll finish this post.

Ok.

I think there's a decent chance that if things line up the right way, we might get to see something that feels more like the 2017 bull run than anything that we've experienced since.  Perhaps even more.
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October 04, 2026, 10:51:07 PM

Meanwhile, we're back over 86k. Is she waking up?
We may see price at $90k by weekend! Perhaps price is teaching us how to be patient while holding without counting the eggs in the basket.
I feel good seeing a positive market on the first day of the week! Boommmmm!
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October 04, 2026, 10:57:05 PM
Last edit: October 04, 2026, 11:16:34 PM by Biodom


Based on context and also cAPSLOCK's earlier "holding the ball under water" characterization of the situation, I would suggest that cAPSLOCK was considering our current price dynamics poster from early 2017 rather than from after the top already being reached (as you are thinking about the top being October 2025), yet of course, after reading cAPSLOCK's most recent post, I am not going to proclaim that for sure he had been referring to us being in an early 2017 kind of a situation rather than in a post-2017 situation.. even though we never really had any great UPpity explosions after 2017.. so the most logical reference seems to be that cAPSLOCK has been suggesting that we may well be in early 2017 rather than after 2017.


Yes, my reference was to consider the bull run of 2017. Not the bubble pop, which if I remember correctly happened around Christmas.

Let me just take a really big hit off of my Hopium pipe real quick and then I'll finish this post.

Ok.

I think there's a decent chance that if things line up the right way, we might get to see something that feels more like the 2017 bull run than anything that we've experienced since.  Perhaps even more.

Very well..not disagreeing at all, but then what?

Will I sell at, say, 400-500K, which is "just" 5X when in 2017 we had about 10X from somewhere in the summer to the peak?
If it happens in 2-3 mo, lol, i might sell something like 1-2%, but if it happens in 2-3 years, probably not even that much.

On the other hand, if Dems would resoundingly win in November, we would probably drop 20-30% (based on their opposition to Clarity, etc and nothing else, really), IF we would be at a highly elevated level (>150K) by then.
Imho, not much would happen if we are still at the mid-80ies.
Perhaps, the scenario above would be a "natural" break until after the halving in mid April 2028.

EDIT: it is possible that WS is "running" bitcoin until early Nov/elections and then they would sell btc to invest in AI (sorry, SI) IPOs.
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October 04, 2026, 11:02:06 PM


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October 04, 2026, 11:18:29 PM
Merited by xhomerx10 (1), AlcoHoDL (1)

~snip
Because you gentlemen asked so nicely, I put a limit sell order when I was seeing ~US$85,220 but in CAD and slightly higher not only to get the maker rate but also because I like round numbers.  Being Sunday and because it's is a CAD book, volume is pretty low so I expected to wait a while.  It still only took about 10 minutes for the exchange to chew through my wall.  Seems bullish; no doubt we will experience some Uptober vibes.

 Damn it!  This money is burning a whole in my pocket now... time to turn it into a depreciating asset to amplify the regret  Wink
You buying ice cream cones for the whole Homer barrio?
 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
Aw JJG.  They're all away at school, too busy studying (or what have you) and have no time for me - not even for free ice cream.  You're making me cry.
I thought about renting a soft-serve truck and driving around the neighborhood offering free ice cream but no doubt many would take it the wrong way.  We'll all be together next weekend for thanksgiving so the turkey's on me.  (not literally because again...)

If there is no free icecream, then I will cancel my planned trip, and yeah, freebies to others would not be the only way to convert your hard asset (namely bitcoin) into either depreciating assets and/or consumption goods, and I won't even judge you regarding the HLB angle - since there could be some guys who actually literally go down the HLB route, and other guys who might just have their own "private" HLB variation.

I had imagined some implied agreements anyhow in terms of the extent to which any of us might be consuming with our coins, and surely down the road, there could be some guys who regret selling too many coins too soon ..and we been there done that, right?

I remember guys getting overly excited spending coins, and surely some of them don't seem to have regrets, and some of them are just private about their regrets... maybe spending at $700 in late 2016? maybe spending at $15k in late 2020? maybe spending at $50k in late 2024?   .. and it can take a while before the regret starts to sink in.. since we don't seem to be getting as many doublings and quadruplings in recent times, event though maybe the route from $15.5k to $126k might qualify for three doublings, which is really a doubling, then a quadrupling then an 8x.. .. but then it is hard to get too preoccupied in considering if our current place is still within the correction zone.

So yeah, like what Lucius mentioned, it may not really matter so much if you are spending 65x, 75x, 85x or 95x in profits, even though maybe tangentially, when we (meaning you) are in 500x profits and above, then maybe you will end up second-guessing your earlier selling impulsivities.

Meanwhile, we're back over 86k. Is she waking up?
I can't look now or the magic wears off.  Let me know when you're all twice as wealthy in your local fiat currency equivalents.

Twice as wealthy.  Let us pray...



and yeah, let's go with $85k as the base.. that would be $170k.

I am not sure about that Homer.  It might take a wee bit of time to reach something like that...

meaning..

I might end up shocked if such BTC prices of $170k-ish were to happen prior to the end of the 1st quarter 2027 (or maybe just pleasantly shocked?) since I don't really have any major changes in any of my bitcoin management plans based on such an occurrence, if it were to take place (but maybe I should?), even though my current price-based bitcoin sale increments have about $3k separation between them, so then those increments would progress up to $5k and then up to $7.5k by the time we are in the mid $100ks (if we were to get there).. and yeah, maybe I would be getting bored with whatever action is already in the cards, then perhaps it could be that I would have to throw in a few extra sales of dee cornz for shits and giggles.. .

Based on context and also cAPSLOCK's earlier "holding the ball under water" characterization of the situation, I would suggest that cAPSLOCK was considering our current price dynamics poster from early 2017 rather than from after the top already being reached (as you are thinking about the top being October 2025), yet of course, after reading cAPSLOCK's most recent post, I am not going to proclaim that for sure he had been referring to us being in an early 2017 kind of a situation rather than in a post-2017 situation.. even though we never really had any great UPpity explosions after 2017.. so the most logical reference seems to be that cAPSLOCK has been suggesting that we may well be in early 2017 rather than after 2017.
Yes, my reference was to consider the bull run of 2017. Not the bubble pop, which if I remember correctly happened around Christmas.

Let me just take a really big hit off of my Hopium pipe real quick and then I'll finish this post.
Ok.
I think there's a decent chance that if things line up the right way, we might get to see something that feels more like the 2017 bull run than anything that we've experienced since.  Perhaps even more.

I hate to get all mathy on you, but I cannot help my lil selfie.

If we think about 2017 from its 2015 base of $250, which was the approximate price for a large portion of 2015 (it might have even been the yearly average if we were to measure it? Edit:  I just found a way to measure the 2015 average and it was $264 - hahahahaha)), then we have a 78x price appreciation, which is also quite a bit smaller than the 2013 run up, which was nearly 100x for the year of 2013 if we start it from its $13 base on January 1, 2013, yet supra 200x if we start it from a January 1, 2012 base of $5.

Now going back to 2017, what might we use as the base?  Maybe $1k is fair, since it is easy to calculate and it was the approximate BTC price at the beginning of the year.  If we established the 2017 base as $1k and we have $19,666 for the high, then we have about a 19.67x price appreciation.

Fair enough, so far?

The question then becomes what we use as our current base?  The current average for the past year is nearly $77k per coin and the current average if we go from the beginning of the year is $72k.. How about we use $75k as our base?  19.67x would be $1.475 million... so that seems a bit much, but it does not seem impossible to reach whether within a year or within the next couple of years.  We might sound a bit looney in regular circles to be talking about those kinds of numbers for our current price run, even though I had those kinds of numbers as something like 0.5% to 1% odds in my 2021 seemingly bad predictions.

Meanwhile, we're back over 86k. Is she waking up?
We may see price at $90k by weekend! Perhaps price is teaching us how to be patient while holding without counting the eggs in the basket.
I feel good seeing a positive market on the first day of the week! Boommmmm!

Seems reasonable.

Even seems reasonable sleepwalking....

up before down?

down before up?

up before further up?

up before sideways?

[edited out]
Very well..not disagreeing at all, but then what?
Will I sell at, say, 400-500K, which is "just" 5X when in 2017 we had about 10X from somewhere in the summer to the peak?
If it happens in 2-3 mo, lol, i might sell something like 1-2%, but if it happens in 2-3 years, probably not even that much.

On the other hand, if Dems would resoundingly win in November, we would probably drop 20-30% (based on their opposition to Clarity, etc and nothing else, really), IF we would be at a highly elevated level (>150K) by then.
Imho, not much would happen if we are still at the mid-80ies.
Perhaps, the scenario above would be a "natural" break until after the halving in mid April 2028.

EDIT: it is possible that WS is "running" bitcoin until early Nov/elections and then they would sell btc to invest in AI (sorry, SI) IPOs.

Your edit is a bit much.

You really think that WS can control bitcoin as much as you are making it out to be?

And, yeah, you are disagreeing with cAPSLOCK's ball being held under water theory.
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October 04, 2026, 11:35:05 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

[edited out]
Very well..not disagreeing at all, but then what?
Will I sell at, say, 400-500K, which is "just" 5X when in 2017 we had about 10X from somewhere in the summer to the peak?
If it happens in 2-3 mo, lol, i might sell something like 1-2%, but if it happens in 2-3 years, probably not even that much.

On the other hand, if Dems would resoundingly win in November, we would probably drop 20-30% (based on their opposition to Clarity, etc and nothing else, really), IF we would be at a highly elevated level (>150K) by then.
Imho, not much would happen if we are still at the mid-80ies.
Perhaps, the scenario above would be a "natural" break until after the halving in mid April 2028.

EDIT: it is possible that WS is "running" bitcoin until early Nov/elections and then they would sell btc to invest in AI (sorry, SI) IPOs.

Your edit is a bit much.

You really think that WS can control bitcoin as much as you are making it out to be?

And, yeah, you are disagreeing with cAPSLOCK's ball being held under water theory.

They might be able to control it during a small time stretch, not over the the longer time duration...and by control I simply meant that it might take a few dozen hedge funds each selling 10% of the position to reverse the flows for a month or two and, yes, cause a significant dip. No biggie.

re 'ball under water'..if anything, it was our 58-64K situation and not the current state of affairs.

To conclude:
My prediction is that if we double (or more) in the next mo or so, and then dems win the election, btc would correct 20-30%, imho.
If we would be much "flatter", then maybe just 10% drop.
I am not sure why they put themselves as an opposition to basically all tech progress, but here we are.
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Based on context and also cAPSLOCK's earlier "holding the ball under water" characterization of the situation, I would suggest that cAPSLOCK was considering our current price dynamics poster from early 2017 rather than from after the top already being reached (as you are thinking about the top being October 2025), yet of course, after reading cAPSLOCK's most recent post, I am not going to proclaim that for sure he had been referring to us being in an early 2017 kind of a situation rather than in a post-2017 situation.. even though we never really had any great UPpity explosions after 2017.. so the most logical reference seems to be that cAPSLOCK has been suggesting that we may well be in early 2017 rather than after 2017.


Yes, my reference was to consider the bull run of 2017. Not the bubble pop, which if I remember correctly happened around Christmas.

Let me just take a really big hit off of my Hopium pipe real quick and then I'll finish this post.

Ok.

I think there's a decent chance that if things line up the right way, we might get to see something that feels more like the 2017 bull run than anything that we've experienced since.  Perhaps even more.

Very well..not disagreeing at all, but then what?

Will I sell at, say, 400-500K, which is "just" 5X when in 2017 we had about 10X from somewhere in the summer to the peak?
If it happens in 2-3 mo, lol, i might sell something like 1-2%, but if it happens in 2-3 years, probably not even that much.

On the other hand, if Dems would resoundingly win in November, we would probably drop 20-30% (based on their opposition to Clarity, etc and nothing else, really), IF we would be at a highly elevated level (>150K) by then.
Imho, not much would happen if we are still at the mid-80ies.
Perhaps, the scenario above would be a "natural" break until after the halving in mid April 2028.

EDIT: it is possible that WS is "running" bitcoin until early Nov/elections and then they would sell btc to invest in AI (sorry, SI) IPOs.


I agree that the midterms are likely to throw ice water on Bitcoin a little bit, but I would also think that that's already being priced in, and the last time clarity failed, Bitcoin didn't even shrug.  But the midterms are a pretty big deal.
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