Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[wachtwoord]

1. There are people who don't have Bitcoin who will purchase them to purchase items
2. There are people who already own Bitcoin and use these for a purchase, who will (immediately) replace these coins by exchanging fiat.

1. Why would they use fiat to buy btc which will then be sold for fiat? Why not just skip the middle part.
2. Maybe? Maybe not..

1. Ease of use, fees, privacy, security, avoiding international restrictions, crossing jurisdictions, avoiding fiat exchange rates when purchasing from overseas, etc. etc.
2. Definitely, categorically and unequivocally.

I think I just got proxy trollfied.  Please ignore Jorge.  He's only here to waste people's time and to try to scare away noobs.

1. Don't forget the discounts! (which will be more and more widespread as the companies avoid the ridiculous credit card fees).
2. And reasons for 2? To keep the same investment level you had before. Note that not everyone needs to do this for my argument to hold (just some). The same is true for point 1

So I would have to pay 2x the price to buy something?... Why not just use fiat and skip that reinvestment step. I'm not seeing much a  killer argument for why anyone would use coinbase to buy stuff.

Let's say you are an investor and have 50 BTC. Then if you spend a Bitcoin to buy something with all the benefits of Bitcoin (discussed above) you replace your Bitcoin buy purchasing a fresh one with fiat so your investment level stays the same. If you think this means paying twice the purchasing price I suggest you start using that thing in your head (either by making a fresh cup of coffee or turning in and taking another look in the morning, depending on your timezone).

I'm confused, I use 1 btc (that I bought at coinbase) to buy whatever, then I have to rebuy that 1 btc (at coinbase) to keep my investment level intact. So what did I misunderstand? Too late in the evening for coffee. Sounds like I have to use 2x the fiat amount to buy something I could have with 1x the fiat amount. Please correct me, and Im terribly sorry If Im wrong.

1. No one time. You have 50 BTC invested.
2. You take 1 BTC of your invested stack and buy whatever product you want
3. The you rebuy 1 BTC with fiat

So you only spend 1 times the fiat cost of the item you bought (although probably less due to all the benefits of Bitcoin)

But what about consumers who are not investors and just want to use coinbase to buy something? Would they be better off from a one time purchase using bitcoin in that case. I guess that is my question. If the threshold for consumers (to get an advantage) is to become investors of a large amount of bitcoin, well it seems a bit harsh, no?

Those would fall under the first category in my original post. You were asking about the second category. Please re-read and if you still don't get it I'll explain.

[brg444]

But what about consumers who are not investors and just want to use coinbase to buy something? Would they be better off from a one time purchase using bitcoin in that case. I guess that is my question. If the threshold for consumers (to get an advantage) is to become investors of a large amount of bitcoin, well it seems a bit harsh, no?

Exactly, some seem to suggest that all bitcoiners are rich therefore we should be able to spend the scrapes of money we were able to put together to INVEST in bitcoin and then turn around and re-buy bitcoins so our stack remains intact.

This is certainly not my case. I'll be damned if I spend my bitcoins if I believe they are so damned undervalued right now

[Davyd05]

People chill the fuck out , its more fun to sip on a drink while watching the the trolling unfold as bitcoin makes in roads to places they never though possible. Fuck getting rich overnight..I'm willing to put years in My first year of hodling comes up in Oct..er mer gerd its be a roller coaster

[grappa_barricata]

Looking at Bfx only:  it looks like the only thing keeping the price down is the constant increase in shorts.  Shorts have increased by 4k over the past week (currently 10.2k).  It is also 4k coins to 500.  The last 3 dumps came at the same time as sharp increases in shorts.

As I said in an earlier post, there are not 10k coins available to buy on Bfx.  This may get interesting fast, especially if Bfx can decouple from the wall-fest at Bitstamp for a few hours.

If i had the required bananas, i will put a 10k sell offer at 1000000$ and buy all the asks book with a single fat market order. THAT would be epic.

*putting sell order at 999999$...*

[catena5260]

Last week: weekend dump, small rise in prices but not close to a recover in the week-middle
This week: weekend dump, no signal of recover in the week-middle(maybe rise by $5 or around?).

Will it becomes a pattern?

[adamstgBit]

People chill the fuck out , its more fun to sip on a drink while watching the the trolling unfold as bitcoin makes in roads to places they never though possible. Fuck getting rich overnight..I'm willing to put years in My first year of hodling comes up in Oct..er mer gerd its be a roller coaster

why you not stay in BTC for life?

[JorgeStolfi]

1. No one time. You have 50 BTC invested.
2. You take 1 BTC of your invested stack and buy whatever product you want
3. The you rebuy 1 BTC with fiat

So you only spend 1 times the fiat cost of the item you bought (although probably less due to all the benefits of Bitcoin)

Sigh. Can you please list ALL the fees that you pay when you purchase with bitcoin as you described, and the fees that you pay when paying directly with money?

(Don forger that you must send money to Coinbase/BitpayPayPal/exchange or whatever in order to buy th ebitcoins, and that Coinbase/Bitpay/Paypal has to send the money to the merchant.)

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[hmmkay]

People chill the fuck out , its more fun to sip on a drink while watching the the trolling unfold as bitcoin makes in roads to places they never though possible. Fuck getting rich overnight..I'm willing to put years in My first year of hodling comes up in Oct..er mer gerd its be a roller coaster

Exactly, they're trying so hard you almost feel sorry for them.

[esse83]

1. There are people who don't have Bitcoin who will purchase them to purchase items
2. There are people who already own Bitcoin and use these for a purchase, who will (immediately) replace these coins by exchanging fiat.

1. Why would they use fiat to buy btc which will then be sold for fiat? Why not just skip the middle part.
2. Maybe? Maybe not..

1. Ease of use, fees, privacy, security, avoiding international restrictions, crossing jurisdictions, avoiding fiat exchange rates when purchasing from overseas, etc. etc.
2. Definitely, categorically and unequivocally.

I think I just got proxy trollfied.  Please ignore Jorge.  He's only here to waste people's time and to try to scare away noobs.

1. Don't forget the discounts! (which will be more and more widespread as the companies avoid the ridiculous credit card fees).
2. And reasons for 2? To keep the same investment level you had before. Note that not everyone needs to do this for my argument to hold (just some). The same is true for point 1

So I would have to pay 2x the price to buy something?... Why not just use fiat and skip that reinvestment step. I'm not seeing much a  killer argument for why anyone would use coinbase to buy stuff.

Let's say you are an investor and have 50 BTC. Then if you spend a Bitcoin to buy something with all the benefits of Bitcoin (discussed above) you replace your Bitcoin buy purchasing a fresh one with fiat so your investment level stays the same. If you think this means paying twice the purchasing price I suggest you start using that thing in your head (either by making a fresh cup of coffee or turning in and taking another look in the morning, depending on your timezone).

I'm confused, I use 1 btc (that I bought at coinbase) to buy whatever, then I have to rebuy that 1 btc (at coinbase) to keep my investment level intact. So what did I misunderstand? Too late in the evening for coffee. Sounds like I have to use 2x the fiat amount to buy something I could have with 1x the fiat amount. Please correct me, and Im terribly sorry If Im wrong.

1. No one time. You have 50 BTC invested.
2. You take 1 BTC of your invested stack and buy whatever product you want
3. The you rebuy 1 BTC with fiat

So you only spend 1 times the fiat cost of the item you bought (although probably less due to all the benefits of Bitcoin)

But what about consumers who are not investors and just want to use coinbase to buy something? Would they be better off from a one time purchase using bitcoin in that case. I guess that is my question. If the threshold for consumers (to get an advantage) is to become investors of a large amount of bitcoin, well it seems a bit harsh, no?

Those would fall under the first category in my original post. You were asking about the second category. Please re-read and if you still don't get it I'll explain.

I thought I was just asking if it was an advantage for regular consumers to use coinbase to purchase items, but ok. Do you think there is an advantage to a first timer to use coinbase to buy btc to purchase an item? And wherein does the advantage lie for that sector of buyers.

[wachtwoord]

I thought I was just asking if it was an advantage for regular consumers to use coinbase to purchase items, but ok. Do you think there is an advantage to a first timer to use coinbase to buy btc to purchase an item? And wherein does the advantege lie for that sector of buyers.

At the moment this really depends on the merchant if your criteria is mostly price (which will be true in general). Some merchants give big discounts for buying with Bitcoins and others won't.

Then whether Coinbase is the cheapest option for you is a whole other story. I think they are quite pricey compared with others but my criteria will be different as I'm European and use SEPA (and therefore the  Kraken exchange).

[adamstgBit]

1. No one time. You have 50 BTC invested.
2. You take 1 BTC of your invested stack and buy whatever product you want
3. The you rebuy 1 BTC with fiat

So you only spend 1 times the fiat cost of the item you bought (although probably less due to all the benefits of Bitcoin)

Sigh. Can you please list ALL the fees that you pay when you purchase with bitcoin as you described, and the fees that you pay when paying directly with money?

(Don forger that you must send money to Coinbase/BitpayPayPal/exchange or whatever in order to buy th ebitcoins, and that Coinbase/Bitpay/Paypal has to send the money to the merchant.)

deposit fee is like 5$ for me, i dont do it often but when i do .....  

trading into BTC is like 0.25%, but if you place your bid at 0.5% of current price your bid will most definitely fill ( market don't either go up or down they are constantly going up and down ...), and you actually end up with a saving on your purchase  

 

[wachtwoord]

1. No one time. You have 50 BTC invested.
2. You take 1 BTC of your invested stack and buy whatever product you want
3. The you rebuy 1 BTC with fiat

So you only spend 1 times the fiat cost of the item you bought (although probably less due to all the benefits of Bitcoin)

Sigh. Can you please list ALL the fees that you pay when you purchase with bitcoin as you described, and the fees that you pay when paying directly with money?

(Don forger that you must send money to Coinbase/BitpayPayPal/exchange or whatever in order to buy th ebitcoins, and that Coinbase/Bitpay/Paypal has to send the money to the merchant.)

deposit fee is like 5$ for me, i dont do it often but when i do .....  

trading into BTC is like 0.25%, but if you place your bid at 0.5% of current price your bid will most definitely fill ( market don't either go up or down they are constantly going up and down ...), and you actually end up with a saving on your purchase  

 

When you are European you can use SEPA and buy for example on Kraken. I'm not sure for Americans cause you get fucked by your banks harder for normal transactions than us.

[Room101]

I've said it before and i will say it again. BTC is not for rich, well banked countries. I, like many people here, use it mainly for political reasons. Suggesting it is easier to use BTC than a credit card is just ludicrous. Got a friend to buy a couple recently. He has an old slow laptop with mediocre internet connection. Took 3 days to download the blockchain for gods sake.

BTC will come to fruition as it penetrates places like india. Like solar power, it enables people to use modern technologies without the need to spend trillions building up legacy infrastructure. Solar power is expensive if you already have a grid, it's cheap if you have to build power and transmission lines everywhere.

Things like the mozilla smartphone, combined with decent, secure online wallets for mobile, will revolutionise the life of the unbanked. Eliminating expensive cross currency fees will save billions.

So everyone here pat yourselves on the back. We got BTC to a place where it is taken seriously enough for people to start building the next wave of apps, apps for the unbanked. These apps are being built and rolled out now, they will take time to come to full fruition. Stop waiting to be made rich in a matter of months, those heady days are over. Sit back and expand your horizon to years. Those that maintain the faith will be rewarded richly. Those that spit the dummy because they thought they would get rich with no effort, risk or time involved, will miss the coming wave.

[NotLambchop]

...Do you think there is an advantage to a first timer to use coinbase to buy btc to purchase an item? ...

Only if you're Rube Goldberg.  Otherwise no.

[JorgeStolfi]

1. No one time. You have 50 BTC invested.
2. You take 1 BTC of your invested stack and buy whatever product you want
3. The you rebuy 1 BTC with fiat

So you only spend 1 times the fiat cost of the item you bought (although probably less due to all the benefits of Bitcoin)

Sigh. Can you please list ALL the fees that you pay when you purchase with bitcoin as you described, and the fees that you pay when paying directly with money?

(Don forger that you must send money to Coinbase/BitpayPayPal/exchange or whatever in order to buy th ebitcoins, and that Coinbase/Bitpay/Paypal has to send the money to the merchant.)

No fees when you use Circle.

Think again.  You have dollars in your bank.  To buy the item you must get a certain amount of dollars in the merchant's bank.  What are the steps (a) to pay through bitcoin and (b) to pay in dollars?

[wachtwoord]

I've said it before and i will say it again. BTC is not for rich, well banked countries. I, like many people here, use it mainly for political reasons. Suggesting it is easier to use BTC than a credit card is just ludicrous. Got a friend to buy a couple recently. He has an old slow laptop with mediocre internet connection. Took 3 days to download the blockchain for gods sake.

BTC will come to fruition as it penetrates places like india. Like solar power, it enables people to use modern technologies without the need to spend trillions building up legacy infrastructure. Solar power is expensive if you already have a grid, it's cheap if you have to build power and transmission lines everywhere.

Things like the mozilla smartphone, combined with decent, secure online wallets for mobile, will revolutionise the life of the unbanked. Eliminating expensive cross currency fees will save billions.

So everyone here pat yourselves on the back. We got BTC to a place where it is taken seriously enough for people to start building the next wave of apps, apps for the unbanked. These apps are being built and rolled out now, they will take time to come to full fruition. Stop waiting to be made rich in a matter of months, those heady days are over. Sit back and expand your horizon to years. Those that maintain the faith will be rewarded richly. Those that spit the dummy because they thought they would get rich with no effort, risk or time involved, will miss the coming wave.

Buying with a credit card may be easy, it's also completely unsafe and non-private. My credit card company called me the other day asking whether a few transactions I made were mine. I understand they have to spy but that's only because they didn't make any form a security.

[adamstgBit]

1. No one time. You have 50 BTC invested.
2. You take 1 BTC of your invested stack and buy whatever product you want
3. The you rebuy 1 BTC with fiat

So you only spend 1 times the fiat cost of the item you bought (although probably less due to all the benefits of Bitcoin)

Sigh. Can you please list ALL the fees that you pay when you purchase with bitcoin as you described, and the fees that you pay when paying directly with money?

(Don forger that you must send money to Coinbase/BitpayPayPal/exchange or whatever in order to buy th ebitcoins, and that Coinbase/Bitpay/Paypal has to send the money to the merchant.)

No fees when you use Circle.

Think again.  You have dollars in your bank.  To buy the item you must get a certain amount of dollars in the merchant's bank.  What are the steps (a) to pay through bitcoin and (b) to pay in dollars?

Circle has no fees for BTC => USD or USD => BTC, deal with it.

yes that is no fee when using a CC or DC.

[coins101]

And banks already perform conversion on your behalf. What's your point? I can use my US credit card to buy stuff in other countries, with zero exchange fee. And if my card number is somehow stolen -- which has never happened -- I can call the bank's fraud department and I'm not held accountable.

...

Did you just hear that sound? It's all the bitcoin-tards screaming out in terror as the last paragraph basically destroyed the myth of bitcoin's "advantage" over traditional payment models.

Some of you people seem to believe that one government issued currency can't be spent in another country. Are you really that dumb?

Sorry to laugh, but I need to bump this.

Get a calculator and look at the spot rates and the retail rates.  Never had a card stolen? Great, you're still paying for their insurance to protect themselves.

Don't get me wrong, I've got plenty of bank stocks. They actually pay quite good returns these days. It's quite an easy and liquid way to profit from stupid. Keep giving banks your money. I truly am grateful.

[NotLambchop]

...
Buying with a credit card may be easy, it's also completely unsafe and non-private. My credit card company called me the other day asking whether a few transactions I made were mine. I understand they have to spy but that's only because they didn't make any form a security.

What are you talking about?  What do you mean by "unsafe"?!

And privacy?  We're talking about PayPal vs. CC here.  I'd suggest you don't buy underage hookers or blow with either.  Jeesh.