Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[JorgeStolfi]

Perhaps an example helps.

Suppose @RPietila is now in the US (to simplify the example) and wants to buy a bottle of fine French wine that costs 500$ if paid in cash at the store -- just the current market price of 1 BTC -- with free delivery to @RPietila's location.  The wine merchant "accepts bitcoin" through Bitpay.

GOING THROUGH BITCOIN:

Years ago, when the price was 3$/BTC, all fees included, @Rpietila bought (say) 1.03 BTC for 3.09$

Today, @Rpietila clicks the bitcoin payment option and is directed to a Bitpay form that specifies the amount of bitcoin he must send, which is 1 BTC plus (say) 0.03 BTC to cover all the costs and fees.

@Rpietila transfers 1.03 BTC to the Bitpay address, shown on the form.  Let's suppose there is no fee for that.

Bitpay sends 500$ to the wine merchant's bank account. Pays a bank transfer fee for that, let's say 5$.

Bitpay sends the 1.03 BTC to Bitstamp and puts it up for sale.  Let's suppose there is no fee for that.

@JayJuanGee deposits 520$  into his Bitstamp account. Pays a bank transfer fee for that, let's say 5$.

@JayJuanGee buys the 1.03 BTC for 515$ (suppose that, by miracle, the price hasn't changed). Pays a trading fee on that, let's say another 5$.

@JayJuanGee withdraws the 1.03 BTC.  Let's suppose there is no fee for that.

@Bitpay now has 515$ in its Bitstamp account.  Withdraws 510$ to its bank account and pays a withdrawal/bank transfer fee of $5.

NET RESULT:

Bitpay paid 505$ (including one bank fee) and received 510$ (after all Bitstamp fees).  The 5$ difference is their processing fee.

@RPietila paid 3.09$ and got to enjoy a bottle of fine wine worth 500$.  He has the same amount of bitcoins that he would have if he did not buy those 1.03 BTC way then.

@JayJuanGee paid 525$ for the privilege of paying the rest of @Rpietila's wine bill (496.91$), plus three bank transfer fees, the Bitstamp trading fee, and the Bitpay processing fee; but he now has 1.03 BTC more in his hoard, nominally worth 515$, that he may be able to sell to @Erdogan tomorrow and thus pass that privilege on to him.

WITHOUT GOING THROUGH BITCOIN

@Rpietila clicks the bank payment option and gets the wine merchant's bank account #.

@RPietila sends 500$ to that account, pays a bank transfer fee of 5$.

NET RESULT:

@RPietila paid 505$ and got to enjoy a bottle of fine wine worth 500$.

CONCLUSION: Left as an exercise.

[BitChick]

Ponzi Scheme is over! Bitcoin is doomed now the inventor lost all his bitcorns!!!
  
There is 0 buying pressure, even though PayPal announced to accept it!

Bitcorn is done, over with!  

Better sell now to cut loose!

      

Expect $3xx minimum soon!  

I think people are still waiting on the Apple news release tomorrow.  Then when Apple says that they are integrating Bitcoin in their payment app I can't imagine how that would not trigger a rally of some sort!

Apple will never ever integrate BTC. I expect mobile payments integration with Visa etc and lower fees than usual with CCs. Apple has enough power to bring Visa etc to lower their fees just for Apple integration.

But it wot be THE big BTC-killer some market-members seem to expect right know. Its just NFC with loweres fees Visa. Thats about it.

Never?  That is a pretty strong statement.  If they make an announcement tomorrow and Bitcoin is mentioned I have to admit it will be fun to say "I told you so."  

[JayJuanGee]

I'm confused.

Maybe this video where you can ear crystal clear bitcoin at least 20 times will fix that

Oh, my god....

I'm afraid I am not able to sleep for days...

relax and enjoy the show... it just got started

Just watched the braintree video. Those guys had it coming for at least a year. Their CEO states clearly that it's PAYPAL'S move to embrace bitcoin... Well played. VERY well played!

i'm telling you: it just got started!!!
i stucked on that also and nice to mention that....

BITCOIN DID IT!

+1
I'm just staring startled since those guys were at it all those months... I mean, we were reading rumors about it, surely hoped it would happen... but still it's amazing! I believe these guys are really worth the wealth they will accomplish when their engines rev up. It's one-click tech and zero fees via bitcoin transactions will make this payment system easy as pie for everyone. Not to mention worldwide transactions. I really want to see who's next

Wow man... just wow!

Is the implementation really going to be "zero" fees?  Doesn't any business model need some monetization to make it practical?

[79b79aa8d5047da6d3XX]

Apple will never ever integrate BTC.

Why not? It looks like EBay/PayPal/Braintree/Coinbase are on their way towards implementing a simple, secure worlwide payment network via BTC.  They chose to announce that the day before Apple talks about its mobile payment solution.

In other words, the competition is on. But if the BTC route proves better/more profitable, Apple is free to correct.

On the other hand, confirmation of Satoshi's accounts being hacked is a tad . . . much.


 

[hmmkay]

Apple has less than 15% marketshare in mobile phones. Stop expecting big results because of them.

[BitChick]

Ponzi Scheme is over! Bitcoin is doomed now the inventor lost all his bitcorns!!!
  
There is 0 buying pressure, even though PayPal announced to accept it!

Bitcorn is done, over with!  

Better sell now to cut loose!

      

Expect $3xx minimum soon!  

I think people are still waiting on the Apple news release tomorrow.  Then when Apple says that they are integrating Bitcoin in their payment app I can't imagine how that would not trigger a rally of some sort!

I don't know if they're going to integrate Bitcoin.
Some months ago, Bitcoin Wallet Apps re-Enter to the iOS AppStore after Apple’s Policy Shift, so tomorrow we're going to see if it's going to be with their own service, integration with VISA or if they're going to integrate Bitcoin  

No rumors about it... people is just expecting the f****** iWatch, iTime or whatever you call as well as the new iPhone... so don't expect anything...
#hipsters... haha

Maybe an iwatch with ability to pay with Bitcoin?

I just got back from Orlando and use the Disney "magic bands" all week.  It was a little weird but convenient.  I could see a similar type band being promoted for payment systems and other uses from Apple but we will see what all the hype is about.

[Adrian-x]

Perhaps an example helps.

Suppose @RPietila is now in the US (to simplify the example) and wants to buy a bottle of fine French wine that costs 500$ if paid in cash at the store -- just the current market price of 1 BTC -- with free delivery to @RPietila's location.  The wine merchant "accepts bitcoin" through Bitpay.

GOING THROUGH BITCOIN:

Years ago, when the price was 3$/BTC, all fees included, @Rpietila bought (say) 1.03 BTC for 3.09$

Today, @Rpietila clicks the bitcoin payment option and is directed to a Bitpay form that specifies the amount of bitcoin he must send, which is 1 BTC plus (say) 0.03 BTC to cover all the costs and fees.

@Rpietila transfers 1.03 BTC to the Bitpay address, shown on the form.  Let's suppose there is no fee for that.

Bitpay sends 500$ to the wine merchant's bank account. Pays a bank transfer fee for that, let's say 5$.

Bitpay sends the 1.03 BTC to Bitstamp and puts it up for sale.  Let's suppose there is no fee for that.

@JayJuanGee deposits 520$  into his Bitstamp account. Pays a bank transfer fee for that, let's say 5$.

@JayJuanGee buys the 1.03 BTC for 515$ (suppose that, by miracle, the price hasn't changed). Pays a trading fee on that, let's say another 5$.

@JayJuanGee withdraws the 1.03 BTC.  Let's suppose there is no fee for that.

@Bitpay now has 515$ in its Bitstamp account.  Withdraws 510$ to its bank account and pays a withdrawal/bank transfer fee of $5.

NET RESULT:

Bitpay paid 505$ (including one bank fee) and received 510$ (after all Bitstamp fees).  The 5$ difference is their processing fee.

@RPietila paid 3.09$ and got to enjoy a bottle of fine wine worth 500$.  He has the same amount of bitcoins that he would have if he did not buy those 1.03 BTC way then.

@JayJuanGee paid 525$ for the privilege of paying the rest of @Rpietila's wine bill (496.91$), plus three bank transfer fees, the Bitstamp trading fee, and the Bitpay processing fee; but he now has 1.03 BTC more in his hoard, nominally worth 515$, that he may be able to sell to @Erdogan tomorrow and thus pass that privilege on to him.

WITHOUT GOING THROUGH BITCOIN

@Rpietila clicks the bank payment option and gets the wine merchant's bank account #.

@RPietila sends 500$ to that account, pays a bank transfer fee of 5$.

NET RESULT:

@RPietila paid 505$ and got to enjoy a bottle of fine wine worth 500$.

CONCLUSION: Left as an exercise.

You forget Years ago, the price of a fine wine worth $50, and it's the fact it now costs $500, that we all want Bitcoin. Bitpay, are just working on ways to get you to spend your bitcoins nothing more nothing less, and they have to make a profit doing it or they'll disappear.

[wachtwoord]

Perhaps an example helps.

Suppose @RPietila is now in the US (to simplify the example) and wants to buy a bottle of fine French wine that costs 500$ if paid in cash at the store -- just the current market price of 1 BTC -- with free delivery to @RPietila's location.  The wine merchant "accepts bitcoin" through Bitpay.

GOING THROUGH BITCOIN:

Years ago, when the price was 3$/BTC, all fees included, @Rpietila bought (say) 1.03 BTC for 3.09$

Today, @Rpietila clicks the bitcoin payment option and is directed to a Bitpay form that specifies the amount of bitcoin he must send, which is 1 BTC plus (say) 0.03 BTC to cover all the costs and fees.

@Rpietila transfers 1.03 BTC to the Bitpay address, shown on the form.  Let's suppose there is no fee for that.

Bitpay sends 500$ to the wine merchant's bank account. Pays a bank transfer fee for that, let's say 5$.

Bitpay sends the 1.03 BTC to Bitstamp and puts it up for sale.  Let's suppose there is no fee for that.

@JayJuanGee deposits 520$  into his Bitstamp account. Pays a bank transfer fee for that, let's say 5$.

@JayJuanGee buys the 1.03 BTC for 515$ (suppose that, by miracle, the price hasn't changed). Pays a trading fee on that, let's say another 5$.

@JayJuanGee withdraws the 1.03 BTC.  Let's suppose there is no fee for that.

@Bitpay now has 515$ in its Bitstamp account.  Withdraws 510$ to its bank account and pays a withdrawal/bank transfer fee of $5.

NET RESULT:

Bitpay paid 505$ (including one bank fee) and received 510$ (after all Bitstamp fees).  The 5$ difference is their processing fee.

@RPietila paid 3.09$ and got to enjoy a bottle of fine wine worth 500$.  He has the same amount of bitcoins that he would have if he did not buy those 1.03 BTC way then.

@JayJuanGee paid 525$ for the privilege of paying the rest of @Rpietila's wine bill (496.91$), plus three bank transfer fees, the Bitstamp trading fee, and the Bitpay processing fee; but he now has 1.03 BTC more in his hoard, nominally worth 515$, that he may be able to sell to @Erdogan tomorrow and thus pass that privilege on to him.

WITHOUT GOING THROUGH BITCOIN

@Rpietila clicks the bank payment option and gets the wine merchant's bank account #.

@RPietila sends 500$ to that account, pays a bank transfer fee of 5$.

NET RESULT:

@RPietila paid 505$ and got to enjoy a bottle of fine wine worth 500$.

CONCLUSION: Left as an exercise.

You forget Years ago, the price of a fine wine worth $50, and it's the fact it now costs $500, that we all want Bitcoin. Bitpay, are just working on ways to get you to spend your bitcoins nothing more nothing less, and they have to make a profit doing it or they'll disappear.

The fees in this example are completely ridiculous. It is clear Jorge never bought Bitcoin. $5 to buy a Bitcoin? Get real.

[escalicha]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=775174.0

Satoshi's mail hacked!

[Adrian-x]

Perhaps an example helps.

Suppose @RPietila is now in the US (to simplify the example) and wants to buy a bottle of fine French wine that costs 500$ if paid in cash at the store -- just the current market price of 1 BTC -- with free delivery to @RPietila's location.  The wine merchant "accepts bitcoin" through Bitpay.

GOING THROUGH BITCOIN:

Years ago, when the price was 3$/BTC, all fees included, @Rpietila bought (say) 1.03 BTC for 3.09$

Today, @Rpietila clicks the bitcoin payment option and is directed to a Bitpay form that specifies the amount of bitcoin he must send, which is 1 BTC plus (say) 0.03 BTC to cover all the costs and fees.

@Rpietila transfers 1.03 BTC to the Bitpay address, shown on the form.  Let's suppose there is no fee for that.

Bitpay sends 500$ to the wine merchant's bank account. Pays a bank transfer fee for that, let's say 5$.

Bitpay sends the 1.03 BTC to Bitstamp and puts it up for sale.  Let's suppose there is no fee for that.

@JayJuanGee deposits 520$  into his Bitstamp account. Pays a bank transfer fee for that, let's say 5$.

@JayJuanGee buys the 1.03 BTC for 515$ (suppose that, by miracle, the price hasn't changed). Pays a trading fee on that, let's say another 5$.

@JayJuanGee withdraws the 1.03 BTC.  Let's suppose there is no fee for that.

@Bitpay now has 515$ in its Bitstamp account.  Withdraws 510$ to its bank account and pays a withdrawal/bank transfer fee of $5.

NET RESULT:

Bitpay paid 505$ (including one bank fee) and received 510$ (after all Bitstamp fees).  The 5$ difference is their processing fee.

@RPietila paid 3.09$ and got to enjoy a bottle of fine wine worth 500$.  He has the same amount of bitcoins that he would have if he did not buy those 1.03 BTC way then.

@JayJuanGee paid 525$ for the privilege of paying the rest of @Rpietila's wine bill (496.91$), plus three bank transfer fees, the Bitstamp trading fee, and the Bitpay processing fee; but he now has 1.03 BTC more in his hoard, nominally worth 515$, that he may be able to sell to @Erdogan tomorrow and thus pass that privilege on to him.

WITHOUT GOING THROUGH BITCOIN

@Rpietila clicks the bank payment option and gets the wine merchant's bank account #.

@RPietila sends 500$ to that account, pays a bank transfer fee of 5$.

NET RESULT:

@RPietila paid 505$ and got to enjoy a bottle of fine wine worth 500$.

CONCLUSION: Left as an exercise.

You forget Years ago, the price of a fine wine worth $50, and it's the fact it now costs $500, that we all want Bitcoin. Bitpay, are just working on ways to get you to spend your bitcoins nothing more nothing less, and they have to make a profit doing it or they'll disappear.

The fees in this example are completely ridiculous. It is clear Jorge never bought Bitcoin. $5 to buy a Bitcoin? Get real.

AND Jorge, go out there and try earn a living, when I sell something to someone in the UK and they pay with PayPal, I pay over 4% to PayPal for the privilege - when doing business in CAD (the guy in the UK has to pay Paypal's GBP - CAD rate.  if I take a EFT in the UK there is no bank fee. (BitPay just do local transfers at a fraction of the cost.)

if I do bank to bank transfer i pay $60 and if over $5000 I then pay fee and a % of the total sent.

[grappa_barricata]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=775174.0

That's right, old email expired, someone registered it, tried to trick someone but failed, then posted 'joke' here, then vandalized sourceforge page.

Nothing to worry about. Everything is good. Relax. Breathe. Think of something pleasant in your infancy (where else?).

[TsuyokuNaritai]

[JayJuanGee]

1. There are people who don't have Bitcoin who will purchase them to purchase items
2. There are people who already own Bitcoin and use these for a purchase, who will (immediately) replace these coins by exchanging fiat.

1. Why would they use fiat to buy btc which will then be sold for fiat? Why not just skip the middle part.
2. Maybe? Maybe not..

1. Ease of use, fees, privacy, security, avoiding international restrictions, crossing jurisdictions, avoiding fiat exchange rates when purchasing from overseas, etc. etc.
2. Definitely, categorically and unequivocally.

I think I just got proxy trollfied.  Please ignore Jorge.  He's only here to waste people's time and to try to scare away noobs.

1. Don't forget the discounts! (which will be more and more widespread as the companies avoid the ridiculous credit card fees).
2. And reasons for 2? To keep the same investment level you had before. Note that not everyone needs to do this for my argument to hold (just some). The same is true for point 1

So I would have to pay 2x the price to buy something?... Why not just use fiat and skip that reinvestment step. I'm not seeing much a  killer argument for why anyone would use coinbase to buy stuff.

Let's say you are an investor and have 50 BTC. Then if you spend a Bitcoin to buy something with all the benefits of Bitcoin (discussed above) you replace your Bitcoin buy purchasing a fresh one with fiat so your investment level stays the same. If you think this means paying twice the purchasing price I suggest you start using that thing in your head (either by making a fresh cup of coffee or turning in and taking another look in the morning, depending on your timezone).

I'm confused, I use 1 btc (that I bought at coinbase) to buy whatever, then I have to rebuy that 1 btc (at coinbase) to keep my investment level intact. So what did I misunderstand? Too late in the evening for coffee. Sounds like I have to use 2x the fiat amount to buy something I could have with 1x the fiat amount. Please correct me, and Im terribly sorry If Im wrong.

What you are saying is so stupid that it is NOT even worth an explanation, beyond to let you know that it is stupid.   

[adamstgBit]

lmao!

[adamstgBit]

Why aren't you blind bulls buying up all these 'cheap coins'

All I here is you bulls talking to the moon, but you do buy nothing?? Why??

You just want to fool other people into buying? And then drop your bag of useless bitcorns for FIAT???


Why don't you buy??

 

waiting for complete total utter capitulation ? aka 456.2

[Davyd05]

People chill the fuck out , its more fun to sip on a drink while watching the the trolling unfold as bitcoin makes in roads to places they never though possible. Fuck getting rich overnight..I'm willing to put years in My first year of hodling comes up in Oct..er mer gerd its be a roller coaster

why you not stay in BTC for life?

who said I wasn't Adam...perhaps that's what I mean by "put years in".

[adamstgBit]

People chill the fuck out , its more fun to sip on a drink while watching the the trolling unfold as bitcoin makes in roads to places they never though possible. Fuck getting rich overnight..I'm willing to put years in My first year of hodling comes up in Oct..er mer gerd its be a roller coaster

why you not stay in BTC for life?

who said I wasn't Adam...perhaps that's what I mean by "put years in".

see i read that and thought you were just going to wait a few more years and then exit.

[JayJuanGee]

1. No one time. You have 50 BTC invested.
2. You take 1 BTC of your invested stack and buy whatever product you want
3. The you rebuy 1 BTC with fiat

So you only spend 1 times the fiat cost of the item you bought (although probably less due to all the benefits of Bitcoin)

Hmmm I'm sorry but how does this not entail spending 2x the amount of money, fiat or BTC.

Depends upon definition... Of course, you have spent twice;however, one of those spending is a form of internal transfer from yourself and to yourself.  The other is a transfer from yourself to another entity... Accordingly, there is only 1x spending from yourself to another entity.

[tarmi]

1. No one time. You have 50 BTC invested.
2. You take 1 BTC of your invested stack and buy whatever product you want
3. The you rebuy 1 BTC with fiat

So you only spend 1 times the fiat cost of the item you bought (although probably less due to all the benefits of Bitcoin)

Hmmm I'm sorry but how does this not entail spending 2x the amount of money, fiat or BTC.

Depends upon definition... Of course, you have spent twice;however, one of those spending is a form of internal transfer from yourself and to yourself.  The other is a transfer from yourself to another entity... Accordingly, there is only 1x spending from yourself to another entity.

but you have to pay the fee even if you are "spending from yourself to yourself".