Bitcoin vs Monero

[BITSPANISH]

In the last days you hear a lot about Monero.

Especially in the Deep Web.

There are people who claim that it is more anonymous than Bitcoin.

That transactions cannot be crawled.


MONERO

https://getmonero.org/


       

Is this it?

What do you think?

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[shinratensei_]

In the last days you hear a lot about Monero.

Especially in the Deep Web.

There are people who claim that it is more anonymous than Bitcoin.

That transactions cannot be crawled.


MONERO

https://getmonero.org/


       

Is this it?

What do you think?

I don't ever get the confirmation about its rumor. but if we try to compare bitcoin and monero and both are in the different area. If you try to pick the anonymity and monero is the winner.

[maku]

Monero is more anonymous than bitcoin, which is only pseudo-anonymous, that is a fact. But do you seriously need more anonymous coin?
It won't be ever pushed to the level of acceptance bitcoin received, not when we are still obliged to follow legal rules and subjugate ourselves to AML/KYC law.
But if you want to use Monero as Dark Market token, yes, it is better than BTC for that purpose.

[CryptoVzla]

if your ideal is to make some business in the darkweb, yep. Monero are for you, untraceable and secure.

[Sunmax]

anonymous is not necessary for a cryptocurrence, monero can't replace bitcoin even in deep web.

[TheKoolaider]

It's the real deal.  Superior to Bitcoin in most ways. Private. Secure. Untraceable.

Wonderful GUI wallet with ringCT permanently enabled.

Privacy shouldn't be an option like other coins. It should be inherent. Just like your privacy.

[dinofelis]

Monero is more anonymous than bitcoin, which is only pseudo-anonymous, that is a fact. But do you seriously need more anonymous coin?
It won't be ever pushed to the level of acceptance bitcoin received, not when we are still obliged to follow legal rules and subjugate ourselves to AML/KYC law.

I'm always baffled when I read that.  If you want to abide by AML/KYC, why not use fiat ?

My idea is that bitcoin's original design was meant to keep coins private.  If you read Satoshi's paper, he goes through some length about that.  Unfortunately, pseudonymity has turned out to be a very weak protection of privacy because of the information that propagates from one transaction to another.  So my idea is that monero is a technical improvement over bitcoin who failed to deliver technically on one of the design goals.

[crossabdd]

wanna "full untraceable" ?
if you send your zcash from t address to Z
the transaction will be full untraceable not only mixing like monero

example
https://explorer.zcha.in/transactions/1f74ab1516a597986ebcd9003d31a397ab864c710bc43162526d085a1512baa4

[dinofelis]

wanna "full untraceable" ?
if you send your zcash from t address to Z
the transaction will be full untraceable not only mixing like monero

example
https://explorer.zcha.in/transactions/1f74ab1516a597986ebcd9003d31a397ab864c710bc43162526d085a1512baa4

If it had been compulsory, I'd also have preferred zcash technically over monero.  But you're only mixing with those other users which also chose to go anonymous.  So the very fact of going anonymous (an act which in itself is traceable when you convert your coins to notes) is an indication you want to hide something.

[crossabdd]

wanna "full untraceable" ?
if you send your zcash from t address to Z
the transaction will be full untraceable not only mixing like monero

example
https://explorer.zcha.in/transactions/1f74ab1516a597986ebcd9003d31a397ab864c710bc43162526d085a1512baa4

If it had been compulsory, I'd also have preferred zcash technically over monero.  But you're only mixing with those other users which also chose to go anonymous.  So the very fact of going anonymous (an act which in itself is traceable when you convert your coins to notes) is an indication you want to hide something.

in fact im never use that's feature, someday i just want to try how mixing work, try use bitmixer.io, but for me its not powerfull, better im using coinbase, no fee free transaction
today i didnt need mix my bitcoin or anything.

i just give alternative , zcoin have higher security to untracable transaction than using monero.

[mobnepal]

Yes monero provide more privacy but the anonymity bitcoin can provide will be enough if you are not involved in some illegal activity. But if you need full privacy yes monero will be good choice than bitcoin.

[dinofelis]

Yes monero provide more privacy but the anonymity bitcoin can provide will be enough if you are not involved in some illegal activity. But if you need full privacy yes monero will be good choice than bitcoin.

In fact, fiat provides better privacy than bitcoin.   Several years ago, I wrote a book, put it up for free, and provided a link for people to donate some bitcoin if they liked it.  It was downloaded several hundreds of times per week, and I never got the slightest donation.  What is, at some point, embarrassing, is that everyone can see this.  They just have to check the bitcoin address, and find out that there has only been one transaction to it (my own, where I tested the link). 
Worse, as people know my name (it's on the book), I didn't realize that they could trace back my initial test donation to several addresses of my wallet.  In fact, me putting up this link made much of my own bitcoin handling visible to all of the world, with my name attached to it (through return addresses and links).

Bitcoin is a privacy nightmare.  Fiat is much better at that.  Only your bank knows.

[robelneo]

anonymous is not necessary for a cryptocurrence, monero can't replace bitcoin even in deep web.

They can co exist,they both have both  strong point,as long as they have a community behind them and people are actually using them,but in terms of adoption I believe Bitcoin has a big edge,because of so many merchants accepting Bitcoin than Monero.

[passwordnow]

I would go for both of them because I know that they will give me good profit in the end. But this is right:

..as long as they have a community behind them and people are actually using them,

But with my majority belief I would go for bitcoin because it's more promising and I'm basing on the interest with most of the people and also the total investment is bitcoin is seemingly higher than Monero.

[obit33]

It's all about fungibility... Money should be fungible: http://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/1967/what-is-fungibility-and-why-does-it-matter

How would you like it, that when you send money to someone from your bankaccount, this person can see how much money is on it, and every transaction that ever happened with it... If they dig deeper, they can see you booked a prostitute 5 weeks ago, that you sent money to some christian church (now they know your religion), that you go shopping at walmart, that you payed a fine for drunk driving 5 years ago etc... Who cares if it's illegal or not, you really want all your 'non-illegal' activities out in the open?

Who on earth would want such a thing, where your whole transaction history is out in the open... Anonimity in cryptocurrencies isn't something to go over lightly, it's essential... no anonimity = no freedom whatsoever... If you want a government with total control, then use a public transparant blockchain...

best regards

[Spoetnik]

Monero is more anonymous than bitcoin, which is only pseudo-anonymous, that is a fact. But do you seriously need more anonymous coin?
It won't be ever pushed to the level of acceptance bitcoin received, not when we are still obliged to follow legal rules and subjugate ourselves to AML/KYC law.
But if you want to use Monero as Dark Market token, yes, it is better than BTC for that purpose.

yup.. and i would say a coin that is future proof for speed is key not privacy.
most users are not paranoid buying drugs on DM's.
Most just want their purchase completed online with out waiting days.
Go look in the BTC section and read the topics about high BTC unconfirmed TX's 90k ?  

If you want the anon coin thing guys then get ready to battle to defend it.
It's really that simple.
You have a war brewing with legal authorities.
Pick what ever side you want but do realize you are entering a battle.

PS:
Nice advertising shit topic by the way.
Sock puppets galore LOL
Reaction from the price getting REKT and BTC shooting up ?

[Spoetnik]

It's all about fungibility... Money should be fungible: http://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/1967/what-is-fungibility-and-why-does-it-matter

How would you like it, that when you send money to someone from your bankaccount, this person can see how much money is on it, and every transaction that ever happened with it... If they dig deeper, they can see you booked a prostitute 5 weeks ago, that you sent money to some christian church (now they know your religion), that you go shopping at walmart, that you payed a fine for drunk driving 5 years ago etc... Who cares if it's illegal or not, you really want all your 'non-illegal' activities out in the open?

Who on earth would want such a thing, where your whole transaction history is out in the open... Anonimity in cryptocurrencies isn't something to go over lightly, it's essential... no anonimity = no freedom whatsoever... If you want a government with total control, then use a public transparant blockchain...

best regards

Ever read a bank statement ?
Which are available if the cops show up..

BTC has mixers etc and FIAT compared to Crypto is not a straight forward comparison.
Most people are fine with AML laws because they know it's intention.
Are you forgetting paper money has a unique number on it ?

The creation of Monero itself is a violation of law by design.. made to circumvent countless laws that exist for a good reason.

[Arvydas77]

Monero (XMR) is very relevant, especially, when you come accross such a cases with Bitcoin:

Danish police first in the world to hunt down criminals using bitcoin:

It seems unlikely that bitcoin is the future of crime after Berlingske reported that the Danish police brought down drug traffickers by tracing bitcoin transactions.

Check all article here:
https://thenextweb.com/eu/2017/02/21/danish-police-hunt-down-criminals-using-bitcoin/#.tnw_tijBrFKZ

[no1dead]

Monero's anonymity feature is much better than bitcoin, but I heard ZCASH has better privacy protection than Monero, is it real? I fully trust Monero will be the great, and compete with bitcoin. XMR is better than litecoin at least.

[dinofelis]

Monero's anonymity feature is much better than bitcoin, but I heard ZCASH has better privacy protection than Monero, is it real? I fully trust Monero will be the great, and compete with bitcoin. XMR is better than litecoin at least.

This has already been said a few times, but the thing is essentially this:

ZCASH has in principle a better anon system, the zero knowledge proofs.  There is absolutely no way, from the block chain, to suspect any user of a note over any other note user concerning a given transaction.  You only know that a transaction is legit, but you don't know with what other transaction in the past it is related at all.

However, the way ZCASH put this into work has a big no-go: it is OPTIONAL.  This means that a note transaction can only come from any other note user, and not from a normal ZCASH user.  Now, the problem with these ZK proofs is that they are very computing intensive, and it can take several minutes on a PC to generate one (while a normal transaction takes milliseconds: it is a bitcoin transaction essentially).  So people only use notes if they have a serious incentive.  When you convert zcash to a note, this IS visible on the chain.  So you can be traced of having turned your zcash into a note.  AFTERWARDS, when you use your notes, this is totally opaque.  But you can be tagged as someone who turned his zcash into notes, and put some effort in doing so.

In monero, things are different.  There is a potential link of every transaction to only a few past transactions (one is the real one, the others are fake links).  In the forward direction, every existing transaction can be fake used in a successive transaction.  So one never knows if a given transaction is actually spent or not, but one can say that it CAME from "one of these" and MIGHT have been spent to "one of those" (or not).  If one has a potential transaction path in monero, this can be verified as a possibility, or not, on the block chain.   Many transaction histories are NOT possible given the monero block chain - which is different with the ZK proofs, where all possible combinations are equally likely (which makes ZK proof superior in principle).  Nevertheless, a few successive transactions on the monero block chain are sufficient to make the number of possibilities grow so large that the propagation of identity information is totally diluted.
What is good in monero is that this scheme is applied to EVERY transaction.  There's no distinction between those wanting anonymity, and those that do not care, and that is essential in any anonymity scheme: you shouldn't stand out as wanting it in a particular case.

ZCASH could have been superior, if the anonymity was compulsory.  As anonymity is optional, ZCASH completely wasted the advantage of its superior cryptographic scheme (probably because in reality it is too computing-intensive).

[wpd]

Monero is more anonymous than bitcoin, which is only pseudo-anonymous, that is a fact. But do you seriously need more anonymous coin?
It won't be ever pushed to the level of acceptance bitcoin received, not when we are still obliged to follow legal rules and subjugate ourselves to AML/KYC law.
But if you want to use Monero as Dark Market token, yes, it is better than BTC for that purpose.

We may need to now; Denmark is trying to track down bitcoin transactions. https://thenextweb.com/eu/2017/02/21/danish-police-hunt-down-criminals-using-bitcoin/#.tnw_ACSpOZNN

[dinofelis]

Monero is more anonymous than bitcoin, which is only pseudo-anonymous, that is a fact. But do you seriously need more anonymous coin?
It won't be ever pushed to the level of acceptance bitcoin received, not when we are still obliged to follow legal rules and subjugate ourselves to AML/KYC law.
But if you want to use Monero as Dark Market token, yes, it is better than BTC for that purpose.

We may need to now; Denmark is trying to track down bitcoin transactions. https://thenextweb.com/eu/2017/02/21/danish-police-hunt-down-criminals-using-bitcoin/#.tnw_ACSpOZNN

It's about time.  Problem is, all your past transactions are graved in stone and open to the world FOREVER with bitcoin.  A surveillance state's wet dream.

[pereira4]

Monero is THE Thing.
The King of cryptocurrencies.

It's more private, reliable and usable. And the overal feel is just much more smooth.
All the top guys use Monero.

https://www.monero.how/why-monero-vs-bitcoin

Every relevant dark market website, as far as I know (now that I ever go on the darknet, just judging by the news on crypto sites) bitcoin is still king of darkmarket, so all that hype about how darkmarkets going all in on monero from a couple months ago were mostly that: hype, a short lived pump and dump.

Right now, I see no reason to diversify on Monero, im all in on BTC and im doing great.

[dinofelis]

Bitcoin can be described as a transparent physical wallet, people are able to see the amount money inside without opening the wallet itself.

It is much much worse than that.  It is not only a transparent wallet where you can see the current state, you can also see all past expenses, to whom, and all past receivings, from whom.  In other words, it is your transparent bank account.

[dinofelis]

Every relevant dark market website, as far as I know (now that I ever go on the darknet, just judging by the news on crypto sites) bitcoin is still king of darkmarket, so all that hype about how darkmarkets going all in on monero from a couple months ago were mostly that: hype, a short lived pump and dump.

Right now, I see no reason to diversify on Monero, im all in on BTC and im doing great.

These people are nuts.  They are graving in stone for eternity what they have been doing.  Give it 5 years, and they are all in deep dodo, when law enforcement will start looking seriously into this.

[Estherth]

The amount of Bitcoin is limited and monero is not.
This is the biggest different.

[Spoetnik]

Make a new topic.. Bitcoin + Mixers etc vs Monero

Make a REAL comparison 

[no1dead]

Make a new topic.. Bitcoin + Mixers etc vs Monero

Make a REAL comparison 

Yes, it is, bitcoin is not anonymous if compared to Monero, XMR is a killing anonymous coin, and bitcoin isn't. If bitcoin mixer can be good for Monero, that would be better, in fact Monero is more anonymous than bitcoin mixer.

[audaciousbeing]

In the last days you hear a lot about Monero.

Especially in the Deep Web.

There are people who claim that it is more anonymous than Bitcoin.

That transactions cannot be crawled.


MONERO

https://getmonero.org/


       

Is this it?

What do you think?

The reason why people are using the two or why one is preferred than the other to me is more of a personal reason  and nothing else. For someone whose only needs is to have a crypto currency to transact with and also to be able to meet its exchange in little time I am sure will go for bitcoin any day, compared to someone who is very much involved in deep web activities or always trying to stay anonymous without leaving any trace whatsoever, will likely tends towards Monero and I am sure in few months another crypto will still come to be more anonymous than Monero then we all then move on again.

[dinofelis]

Make a new topic.. Bitcoin + Mixers etc vs Monero

Make a REAL comparison  

Mixing on an FBI server

[dinofelis]

The amount of Bitcoin is limited and monero is not.
This is the biggest different.

Yes, and this "sound money doctrine" is silly, because it makes an assumption: namely that the full market cap of currency is a monopoly.  Once you allow for competing currencies, the sound money doctrine loses its ground.

[dinofelis]

For someone whose only needs is to have a crypto currency to transact with and also to be able to meet its exchange in little time I am sure will go for bitcoin any day, compared to someone who is very much involved in deep web activities or always trying to stay anonymous

The problem I'm having is, that if you don't mind a transaction being public, why do you need bitcoin at all, and why can't you do it with fiat ?

[James_Pool]

I would be careful about holding Monero as it is mainly predominant in the Dark web markets like Alpha Bay and this and the others could very well end up just like Silk road few years ago... In that case Monero price will suffer it 100% sure...

[dinofelis]

I would be careful about holding Monero as it is mainly predominant in the Dark web markets like Alpha Bay and this and the others could very well end up just like Silk road few years ago... In that case Monero price will suffer it 100% sure...

The idea is not to "hold" on any crypto currency, is it.  The idea is to obtain it against goods and services you sell, and spend it to obtain goods and services.  Like you do with fiat.
If you are holding it, you're gambling on finding a greater fool.  Which may very well work out, btw.

[Febo]

In the last days you hear a lot about Monero.

Especially in the Deep Web.

There are people who claim that it is more anonymous than Bitcoin.

That transactions cannot be crawled.


MONERO

https://getmonero.org/


       

Is this it?

What do you think?

The reason why people are using the two or why one is preferred than the other to me is more of a personal reason  and nothing else. For someone whose only needs is to have a crypto currency to transact with and also to be able to meet its exchange in little time I am sure will go for bitcoin any day, compared to someone who is very much involved in deep web activities or always trying to stay anonymous without leaving any trace whatsoever, will likely tends towards Monero and I am sure in few months another crypto will still come to be more anonymous than Monero then we all then move on again.

That is quite optimistic. In few months? Monero is here for few months less then 3 years. And all it does it is getting more and more anon. In this almost 3 years no one come with anything like it.  Revolutionary things dont happen over night. Something that will happen 3 months from now should be researched and hard work on it for few years at least.  What can happen in few months is a copy/paste coin with lots of hype and marketing. We saw many of them and some are quite "successful".

[nelson4lov]

In the last days you hear a lot about Monero.

Especially in the Deep Web.

There are people who claim that it is more anonymous than Bitcoin.

That transactions cannot be crawled.


MONERO

https://getmonero.org/


       

Is this it?

What do you think?

The reason why people are using the two or why one is preferred than the other to me is more of a personal reason  and nothing else. For someone whose only needs is to have a crypto currency to transact with and also to be able to meet its exchange in little time I am sure will go for bitcoin any day, compared to someone who is very much involved in deep web activities or always trying to stay anonymous without leaving any trace whatsoever, will likely tends towards Monero and I am sure in few months another crypto will still come to be more anonymous than Monero then we all then move on again.

That is quite optimistic. In few months? Monero is here for few months less then 3 years. And all it does it is getting more and more anon. In this almost 3 years no one come with anything like it.  Revolutionary things dont happen over night. Something that will happen 3 months from now should be researched and hard work on it for few years at least.  What can happen in few months is a copy/paste coin with lots of hype and marketing. We saw many of them and some are quite "successful".

There's no need beating around the bush or Comparing Bitcoin & any other Cryptocurrency. Many that tried doing Bitcoin & altcoin Comparison and made predictions about the altcoin going above Bitcoin have all failed. I agree that Monero is a great coin, A Complete coin with Full Privacy Protection feature. Bitcoin on the other hand has less privacy features but still gets picked as the best. The truth is that These Cryptocurrencies all serve different purposes, so I see no need comparing them. either way, Bitcoin still wins tho

[BitcoinHodler]

i always hate topics with "Versus" in them because they always attract so many false information and so many trolling as you can already see here.

bitcoin is always going to be THE cryptocurrency and all the rest will remain alt-coins. but this doesn't mean one is better and the other is bad and it certainly doesn't mean the other is good either.

in case of altcoins such as monero, there are lots of potential for them to grow. specially when they have "Useful features".
as long as they continue being developed and move forward with the adoption and the need of that day, they will grow bigger.

[btc_zero_sum]

the truth about monero usage on deep web markets:

[dinofelis]

the truth about monero usage on deep web markets:

That's simply wrong. 

https://getmonero.org/knowledge-base/user-guides/prove-payment


What monero is still lacking, but I think it is in the making, is multisig, needed for escrow.

[Febo]

the truth about monero usage on deep web markets:

That screen is half year old it happened when Monero was added to Alpha Bay.
Truth is that Darkmarkets use BTC. BTC is currency used on darkmarket. That is a fact and this will not change quite some time. Small part of users that are more privacy oriented use Monero.
Reasons for that are simple. You can see from that screen, that Battalion guy have no ideas how to prove his transaction. If you dont educate yourself is better to stay on what you allready know to use. Like i will not go write here in German altho i should know at least a bit, because I can write way better in English. If somehow Teymos forbid English here, i will force myself to learn German more and write only in German.

Monero is here for those that want to use it. It is not for anyone else.

[Ayers]

the truth about monero usage on deep web markets:

ah this prove that full anonymity can be detrimental, and that bitcoin is actually the king in the dark web too, i always thought that monero was rising because it was used but now that you posted this i think it was a pump and dump

[aleix]

the truth about monero usage on deep web markets:

That's simply wrong. 
https://getmonero.org/knowledge-base/user-guides/prove-payment
What monero is still lacking, but I think it is in the making, is multisig, needed for escrow.

And it's not Monero's fault that those AB users don't know how to use it....that guys an idiot or a lier either way he's not worth my time.

Are you serious ?

This has nothing to do with 'faulty users'. By any satisfactory auditory definition, a transaction is successful when one address balance has been depleted and another credited. (I realise there are other ‘geeky’ definitions that involve transaction IDs but thats not what matters to users and it's not what would matter to any self respecting professional auditor).

In the abscence of a trusted 3rd party arbitor, you therefore need to see the movements at both address balances. The sending and receiving.

Furthermore, the parties that have an interest in auditing it are:

1. The sending participating party (to verify they’re liability is cancelled)
2. The receiving participating party (for obvious reasons)
3. Non-participating keyholders (because they are exposed to the value of the blockchain based asset and have an interest in the public confidence of the blockchain integrity)
4. Non-participating, non-keyholders (because they are expected to supply goods, services and other currencies in support of your blockchain asset's exchange rate).

(You would not want to eat a piece of fruit out of a bowl of rotten apples, even if one of them looked ok. In Bitcoin (and Dash for that matter), everyone sees the whole fruitbowl and everyone has access to the same information without condition or recourse to a third party).

The reason Bitcoin’s blockchain is anonymous but transparent is because there IS no 3rd party arbitor to resolve disputes. Blockchain transparency therefore makes the asset resistant to confidence attacks through rumour, dispute, aspersion and theft. It also gives transacting parties huge protection by supporting the interests of veracity in anecdotal accounts of failed transfers, whether they be due to mis-addressed funds, lack of confirmations, deception, hacks or otherwise.

The problem with the Cryptonote approach (who’s original conception was intended to support trusted party backed ‘credit money’ anyway b.t.w.) is that the participating parties are *on their own* mate. Nobody can see a thing and they’re each dependent on the other’s co-operation for verifying the transaction. If Poloniex say my deposit ‘went through’ and no funds turn up and don’t supply me a TXID or viewkey I’m stuffed. Nor do I have recourse to “the rest of the world”. Take a look at the last 6 years of Bitcoin forums. They’re littered with discussions about addresses, transactions where something went, where it didn’t go.

Thats what gives a blockchain confidence and confidence is what supports its value. If all you have is one end of the transaction or a poxy TXID that you have to beg for, then you’ve a recipe for catastrophe. A while back I said that “encryption” was the cancer of cryptocurrency. I didn’t mean that from the point of view of technical failure, I meant it from the perspective that ANY kind of obfuscation in an unbacked asset is corrosive to confidence and it’s only a matter of time before all it’s good for is a temporary payment rail thats valueless.

The reason these coins have no future isn’t because they don’t have good ‘tech’. It’s because ‘encrypting stuff’ is dirt cheap these days and doesn’t add any value. (Sticking a gold bar or a diamond in a safe might cost you a small premium, but the price of the safe, not the price of the gold).

In fact, when it comes to cryptocurrency, “encrypting stuff” positively detracts form its potential value because we’re talking about a bearer token which draws its worth from authenticity, not obscurity.

How much evidence of that do you need ? If not the above posts (which will be the tip of the Iceberg), try this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg17896089#msg17896089

[darkota]

anonymous is not necessary for a cryptocurrence, monero can't replace bitcoin even in deep web.

Yes it is, Bitcoin's pseudoanonymity mean's it fails at protecting the privacy of those using it as a currency, especially on TOR sites/deep web

[darkota]

the truth about monero usage on deep web markets:

Except, that has nothing to do with anonymity. People can and have done the exact same thing with Bitcoin..

[phr0stbyt3]

I have indeed heard a lot that monero is used in deep web for transactions as many people claim it to be more secure and has more anonymity than bitcoin. I don't know so much how anonymity actually works nor I care much as I don't do anything illegal. But the only reason I actually like monero is because of its price and returns it has been providing laterly.

[Spoetnik]

Make a new topic.. Bitcoin + Mixers etc vs Monero

Make a REAL comparison  

Mixing on an FBI server

The Internet is run on US Dept Of Defense Servers.
Many ISP's have a first hop to a traced IP at the DOD.. i know i checked this in Canada 10 years ago.
Further more the ISP's are 101% govt compliant.
Hell this Forum is as i said since mid-2013..
If any govt agency serves a warrant to ANY ISP in America it will get compliance in a heartbeat.
I am not talking about hypothetical shit i am talking about what actually does in fact happen 24/7.

Users on DM's use mixer services etc and usually manage to get away with it.
Otherwise there would be no Dark Market in the first place.

There for i am right as always and i have shown how much of a stupid pile of bullshit this topic is.

You are all comparing and anon coin against Bitcoin used "naked" when you should be comparing it like i said earlier.
How many times do i have to say cut the crap ?  

[dinofelis]

Make a new topic.. Bitcoin + Mixers etc vs Monero

Make a REAL comparison  

Mixing on an FBI server

The Internet is run on US Dept Of Defense Servers.
Many ISP's have a first hop to a traced IP at the DOD.. i know i checked this in Canada 10 years ago.
Further more the ISP's are 101% govt compliant.

There's a difference.  If you run a full node, it is very difficult to find out whether your full node processed *your own* transaction, or a transaction coming from a light client connected to you (of which maybe one is yours).  This is why you should run your own monero full node and why it is a bad idea to use light wallets in the first place.  The encrypted tunnels to a full node don't reveal what's inside, only that there was a connection. In order to even start untangling that, you'd need a global surveillance of all local connections too.  This can be done only for specific targets, and even then, it is difficult if several jurisdictions are at work.
So you only run this danger if you are already targeted, after which, it is just a matter of collecting proof.

But when you mix your coins on an FBI mixer, you are 1) signalling yourself and 2) making the mixing useless because they KNOW who brought what, and got out what on what address ; they don't need to pre-target victims, they come themselves, and they bring the proof of their own to their servers.  The first thing is a multi-billion dollar surveillance program with doubtful utility and results, the second is a less-than-one-million program that is a honeypot for people wanting to hide something.

Setting up several FBI mixers is much, much, much lower budget than global internet surveillance and is directly targeting the people they are after without the legal hassle of global surveillance.

A guy buys coins on coinbase, goes to a mixer at the FBI's site, thinks he's safe and buys drugs on a dark market.  The FBI agent looks at the analysis the next morning, sees the buying at a dark market wallet, sees that it comes from coinbase's wallets before mixing, asks a subpoena for coinbase, and knock, knock on the door if he happens to be in the US jurisdiction, or an e-mail to a collegue of a befriended jurisdiction to do the same.

You don't need global internet surveillance for that.  If I were an FBI agent, I'd ask for $1 million budget to set up a few hundred of mixers around the world, and ask for a promotion the next year when I brought down 10 dark markets.

What you fail to see is, all else equal, when you use a bitcoin mixer, you fully trust the owner of the mixer, and you reveal him what you want to hide.  BTW, DASH has exactly the same problem, with the master nodes which are nothing else but trusted mixers.  Only, DASH protects this somewhat more with the fact that you cannot "Sybil attack" the DASH masternode network, as you can "Sybil attack" the bitcoin mixer population like I proposed. 
The counter side to DASH is that most masternodes are in the hands of Evans, so in a certain way, you have to trust Evans for your mixing.  That's probably somewhat safer than trusting the FBI agent, but still.

[dinofelis]

the truth about monero usage on deep web markets:

That's simply wrong. 
https://getmonero.org/knowledge-base/user-guides/prove-payment
What monero is still lacking, but I think it is in the making, is multisig, needed for escrow.

And it's not Monero's fault that those AB users don't know how to use it....that guys an idiot or a lier either way he's not worth my time.

Are you serious ?

This has nothing to do with 'faulty users'. By any satisfactory auditory definition, a transaction is successful when one address balance has been depleted and another credited. (I realise there are other ‘geeky’ definitions that involve transaction IDs but thats not what matters to users and it's not what would matter to any self respecting professional auditor).

In the abscence of a trusted 3rd party arbitor, you therefore need to see the movements at both address balances. The sending and receiving.

Furthermore, the parties that have an interest in auditing it are:

1. The sending participating party (to verify they’re liability is cancelled)
2. The receiving participating party (for obvious reasons)
3. Non-participating keyholders (because they are exposed to the value of the blockchain based asset and have an interest in the public confidence of the blockchain integrity)
4. Non-participating, non-keyholders (because they are expected to supply goods, services and other currencies in support of your blockchain asset's exchange rate).

(You would not want to eat a piece of fruit out of a bowl of rotten apples, even if one of them looked ok. In Bitcoin (and Dash for that matter), everyone sees the whole fruitbowl and everyone has access to the same information without condition or recourse to a third party).

The reason Bitcoin’s blockchain is anonymous but transparent is because there IS no 3rd party arbitor to resolve disputes. Blockchain transparency therefore makes the asset resistant to confidence attacks through rumour, dispute, aspersion and theft. It also gives transacting parties huge protection by supporting the interests of veracity in anecdotal accounts of failed transfers, whether they be due to mis-addressed funds, lack of confirmations, deception, hacks or otherwise.

The problem with the Cryptonote approach (who’s original conception was intended to support trusted party backed ‘credit money’ anyway b.t.w.) is that the participating parties are *on their own* mate. Nobody can see a thing and they’re each dependent on the other’s co-operation for verifying the transaction. If Poloniex say my deposit ‘went through’ and no funds turn up and don’t supply me a TXID or viewkey I’m stuffed. Nor do I have recourse to “the rest of the world”. Take a look at the last 6 years of Bitcoin forums. They’re littered with discussions about addresses, transactions where something went, where it didn’t go.

Thats what gives a blockchain confidence and confidence is what supports its value. If all you have is one end of the transaction or a poxy TXID that you have to beg for, then you’ve a recipe for catastrophe. A while back I said that “encryption” was the cancer of cryptocurrency. I didn’t mean that from the point of view of technical failure, I meant it from the perspective that ANY kind of obfuscation in an unbacked asset is corrosive to confidence and it’s only a matter of time before all it’s good for is a temporary payment rail thats valueless.

The reason these coins have no future isn’t because they don’t have good ‘tech’. It’s because ‘encrypting stuff’ is dirt cheap these days and doesn’t add any value. (Sticking a gold bar or a diamond in a safe might cost you a small premium, but the price of the safe, not the price of the gold).

In fact, when it comes to cryptocurrency, “encrypting stuff” positively detracts form its potential value because we’re talking about a bearer token which draws its worth from authenticity, not obscurity.

How much evidence of that do you need ? If not the above posts (which will be the tip of the Iceberg), try this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg17896089#msg17896089

Ah, Toknormal's aberrant monetary definitions again

There's a difference between two aspects of a monetary asset.  One is the BELIEF IN THE SYSTEM.  The belief in the system resides in the fact that you are willing to accept monetary assets against goods and services, because you believe that others share that belief, and that you will be able to obtain goods and services against these assets.
That belief needs (but it is not sufficient) a kind of belief in the respect of the rules of the system.  For a crypto currency, that belief in the respect of the rules is based upon the belief that the cryptography is sound, and the consensus mechanism is working correctly (that there is not a 51% attack going on for instance, and that such an attack is not imminent).

Again, the "technical" belief is necessary, but not sufficient, for the monetary belief to hold.  If you don't believe that the crypto currencies' rules are correctly implemented (for instance, that there's a cheap trick to generate extra coins, or to reverse transactions), you can hardly believe the monetary value of it.  But it is not because a crypto currency is working correctly, that you believe that people will accept it against goods and services.

So the "monetary belief" is ONE aspect.

The different aspect is a single transaction.  One has already to assume the monetary belief, otherwise you won't bother getting involved into a transaction.
If you're on the receiving side, it is simple to believe in a transaction: you see that you obtained the funds.  Given your belief in the functioning of the system, that's enough to convince you.
If you're on the sending side, it is also simple to believe in the transaction: you see that you don't have the funds any more and you can verify that you did the transaction.

So both parties can convince themselves easily about the veracity of a transaction.  However, the receiver of funds has an incentive to *pretend* that he didn't get paid, because he's supposed to deliver goods and services for it.   This only matters if the sender needs some form of social pressure on the receiver; that is, if he did his payment before being sure that he obtained his goods and services ; or if the receiver of funds thinks he can manipulate social pressure on the sender to get more out of him (more money, or getting the goods back).

So the only potential liar in this case is the receiver of funds (who knows he's lying), and he's lying to a particular audience.

The sender can prove to this audience that the payment took place (and has to sacrifice anonymity for this transaction in that case).

With monero, the sender can prove it to ANYBODY he estimates needs to be informed about the receiver's lie.  If he sends the transaction key, the transaction ID and the receiver's address, ANYBODY can check that this transaction took place.

But it is up to the sender to give this information to the people he estimates, need to have this information (although these people can re-transmit this information further, which is an error in this system: it is not a zero-knowledge proof, it is full proof).

The revelation of this particular transaction has nothing to do with the monetary belief in the overall system.  The overall belief is partially built upon the belief of the correctness of the cryptographic system, and the absence of 51% attack, and partially on the inavoidable belief in the group-think of it having value.

One doesn't need to know how to reveal an individual transaction: one has cryptographic proof that they are all correctly linked together.

The revelation of a particular transaction is only needed to correct a lie of a receiver of funds to an audience for which you, as a sender, think it is important to correct this.

These are two different aspects.

[btcxyzzz]

anonymous is not necessary for a cryptocurrence, monero can't replace bitcoin even in deep web.

LOL, you live in inversed world )

[iamnotback]

... (although these people can re-transmit this information further, which is an error in this system: it is not a zero-knowledge proof, it is full proof).

+1 . Overall very well elucidated. And interesting point about that proof not being a NIZKP. Thanks for pointing that out.

[cryptworld]

It all depends on what you are looking for if you want anonymity then you go for monero. It's that simple

[machinek20]

Yes for anonymity Monero is better than bitcoin, Monero can be one of the greatest alt coin in the future, but the Monero user still not a lot and the place to spend Monero is limited, when a big company invest in Monero I think it has chance to compete with bitcoin

[toknormal]

So the only potential liar in this case is the receiver of funds (who knows he's lying), and he's lying to a particular audience.

The sender can prove to this audience that the payment took place (and has to sacrifice anonymity for this transaction in that case).

You should become an architect. With such elaborate philosophical meanderings I'm sure you could successfully argue that since "most buildings are rectangular" therefore "most rectangular structures will stand up".  

(It'll also be easier for you than trying to convince anyone who understands money and 'audits').

[dinofelis]

So the only potential liar in this case is the receiver of funds (who knows he's lying), and he's lying to a particular audience.

The sender can prove to this audience that the payment took place (and has to sacrifice anonymity for this transaction in that case).

You should become an architect. With such elaborate philosophical meanderings I'm sure you could successfully argue that since "most buildings are rectangular" therefore "most rectangular structures will stand up".  

(It'll also be easier for you than trying to convince anyone who understands money and 'audits').

I'm sure people like you said that to Euclid too, when he tried to explain geometry.

[iamnotback]

Hope you Monero folks are aware of my conjecture:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1796575.msg17968724#msg17968724

[blockcha1n]

I was thinking about getting into monero but now that I hear that it is used for deepweb or darknet purposes have turned me off it all together,
I don't want to be part of or support something that makes me feel bad everytime I use it.
Atleast bitcoin has had it's bad times but it is trying very hard to separate it's self from those "Dark Days" of it's questionable beginnings.
So atleast it is trying to make a new dawn in a good light for itself.

[iamnotback]

I was thinking about getting into monero but now that I hear that it is used for deepweb or darknet purposes have turned me off it all together,
I don't want to be part of or support something that makes me feel bad everytime I use it.
Atleast bitcoin has had it's bad times but it is trying very hard to separate it's self from those "Dark Days" of it's questionable beginnings.
So atleast it is trying to make a new dawn in a good light for itself.

Btw, I agree that the focus on marketing to dark markets is not wise. Isn't a mainstream nor appropriate way to teach thinking about organizing for freedom. I've been happy to stand back and watch Monero shoot themselves in the foot.

Please understand that Bitcoin joining the fiat system is not a good thing:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1798356.msg17966654#msg17966654  <--- READ @dinofelis's point please
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1798356.msg17960724#msg17960724

Instead we need anonymity that is compliant with a civilized society:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1796575.msg17968724#msg17968724

Note anonymity will never be 100% iron-clad. The bad guys can still be tracked down. But we need privacy, else we will have totalitarianism. We can't take away the power of the little guy because then we will end up with an asymmetrically all-powerful corrupt State (1984).

[dinofelis]

Hope you Monero folks are aware of my conjecture:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1796575.msg17968724#msg17968724

I have to think about the first conjecture, about spamming transactions to undo anonymity.

However, the second thing, about "tax declarations".  Taxes as a function of economic relationship are extortion.  Taxes to pay for public services are normal.  So I don't even consider "declaring crypto transactions".  If you want to declare it, do it with fiat.  Use crypto when you don't want to declare it, or when you don't care at all about anonymity (use bitcoin).

I have a totally different proposal for taxes, if they need to exist.  Note that as an anarchist, I think that the state shouldn't exist, and hence taxes are not a useful concept.  But if a form of state has to exist and must be financed, I propose the following.  The first is that you pay for services, like "police and law protection".  Ownership you didn't declare (and didn't pay the "protection premium" on) will not be protected by law, but you are free to do so.  If you don't declare your house, police will not come and kick out squatters: it is not legally recognised to be yours.  If you declare it, you pay a permium as a function of its value.
The second is that nobody can own natural resources, including land.  You can only lease land and natural resources.  This essentially kills the real estate market as collectible, because you can't own a house for ever, given that it can only be yours as long as the leasing period of the land lasts, something you negotiated when making your offer for that piece of land.  This is an old and wise American-Indian principle: land cannot be owned.  Maybe you have a leasing for 50 years or so.  Society ("the state") decides upon what parts of nature are open to bidding and what remain public ; people make different proposals (leasing price, period, usage restrictions....), and the state picks out the most lucrative one.    When a leasing comes to an end (either because the contractor didn't pay, or because the period comes at the end), the state decides anew whether this piece of land (and every capital on it, like real estate) goes back into the public domain, or is leased out again.  The former leaser can of course, bid again.  This bidding can even be done 10 or 20 years before the end, so that the actual leaser knows whether to invest or not on it.

All the income of those leasings of land and natural resources is the "tax income" of the state.  No more compulsory declarations, no more limitations of economic freedom because of taxes.

[btcB2]

the truth about monero usage on deep web markets:

https://i.imgur.com/7sWDQHh.png

ah this prove that full anonymity can be detrimental, and that bitcoin is actually the king in the dark web too, i always thought that monero was rising because it was used but now that you posted this i think it was a pump and dump

It's pretty easy to prove payments with Monero, it has nothing to do with anonymity. Here is all you need to know: https://getmonero.org/resources/user-guides/prove-payment.html

[King Bounty]

I think monero does not match than bitcoin, because it is so far compared. and in my opinion the match compared to monero is ethereum.

[Ragnar Lothbrok]

I think if bitcoin vs monero, I prefer bitcoin because bitcoin is more profitable than monero.

[konco kereng]

for now because bitcoin is still down and its movement is not so stable then you better hold it and now I also hold some bitcoin in my wallet because I'm sure bitcoin will change my life someday.

[jyotianand01]

There is no comparison between bitcoin and monero as bitcoin is number one and well established coin of this market and monero is a growing coin and it will take long time to prove itself.

[lelou]

My two most favorite coins, but monero is closer to my heart. If you can see the current run on the coinmarketcap, monero is one of the few top coins whose on green or upward trend. Good for anonimity and team behind this coin are great and you can see they're serious about improving the project.

[mahilchii]

There is no comparison between bitcoin and monero as bitcoin is number one and well established coin of this market and monero is a growing coin and it will take long time to prove itself.

Correct. Bitcoin is the king of crypto market and Monero is just a start up thing compared to Bitcoin, we cannot compare even Ethereum with Bitcoin and how come Monero can be compared with Bitcoin. Anomaly of a coin is not the only factor to show its potential and there are tons of other factors which will drive the potential of a coin.

[crestella]

Bitcoin vs monero ? If monera is compared to bitcoin then monero is well below bitcoin but monero also has its own appeal where bitcoin price decreases monero even its reverse, and monero price is now stable enough, during the last 2 months monero price has a nice increase unlike bitcoin every day its price decreases.

[amitkumratra]

Bitcoin is the king of all the coins as well as the established coin of the crypto market. On the other hand, Monero will travel a very long journey to prove himselves in the market and also to reach on the top.
There is no compatibility between them.
But i think Monero has a potential to grow faster and reach nearby Bitcoin.

[lider1971]

Can you tell exactly why are you think that bitcoin have more profit than monero? and what profit did you mean, holding, investments, trading?         

[BinManR]

Bitcoin is the pioneer and first platform in the crypto market. One difference between 2009 and 2014 could be the innovation from monero. However, I think bitcoin is still doing so well in creating a consistent flow of user community. Monero has improved the bitcoin distances encountered and is one of the best choices for privacy and security. It is too early to evaluate the effectiveness of monero and bitcoin. However, monero in the future is a good use.

[andrino]

This is for the present issues that we talk about bitcoin vs monero. Both have in common coins and basically develop to success on what the goal says. Different aspect but will meet in one word the best base on there own platforms. We agree that we don't like the other one because of mistakes and not upgrading the system by dev.

[sarojan9980]

i heard about this monero but i didn't get clarified with full details about this.
why are you think that monero is equal to bitcoin. typically it is not possible i think.

[Cacingkemi]

Bitcoin is the pioneer and first platform in the crypto market. One difference between 2009 and 2014 could be the innovation from monero. However, I think bitcoin is still doing so well in creating a consistent flow of user community. Monero has improved the bitcoin distances encountered and is one of the best choices for privacy and security. It is too early to evaluate the effectiveness of monero and bitcoin. However, monero in the future is a good use.

Thats right its still too early to distinguish a good coin,true BTC is a pioneer and has become one in the form of the most community.XMR looks good in the last year and was over ETH but more much of the other ALT enthusiasts so XMR had to undergo a new update to start follow BTC first.

[Reez]

If Monero had the success that Bitcoin had till now, than governments would have already shut down the whole cryptocurrency market. No government would allow an anonymous coin like Monero to succeed.

[Vaflia]

Yes, this is definitely true. Monero is much more anonymous than bitcoin, and that is why all transactions on the deep web are conducted in monero.

[usd.dev]

This is not the only coin for calculating with a high degree of anonymity. Therefore, I do not think that it is correct to compare the first coin with the others, if a system mixer of coins enters the bitcoin protocol, the monero will be useless as well as zek.

[Haunebu]

My two most favorite coins, but monero is closer to my heart. If you can see the current run on the coinmarketcap, monero is one of the few top coins whose on green or upward trend. Good for anonimity and team behind this coin are great and you can see they're serious about improving the project.

Both Bitcoin and Monero are excellent coins which have already proved their value in the crypto market and they have a bright future according to me. When comparing both of them, I feel that Bitcoin is the superior coin due to many reasons like worldwide popularity, features, merchant acceptance, concepts etc. I know that Monero offers extra protection to users when compared to Bitcoin in terms of anonymity, but that alone does not justify choosing Monero over Bitcoin. This applies to all the other coins like Dash, Verge etc which are competing along with Monero in this aspect.

[BitcoinGuruOne]

In the last days you hear a lot about Monero.

Especially in the Deep Web.

There are people who claim that it is more anonymous than Bitcoin.

That transactions cannot be crawled.


MONERO

https://getmonero.org/


       

Is this it?

What do you think?

I am not completely sure on this but the people i have talked to say that in order to get the complete anonymity with the Monero  transations , you should download the entire blockchain on your computer and then you can make it anonym ( like 40 GB worth) . Again, this just something that i have heard form someome who uses it semi freqauntly.

[Ereun]

Protocol: Monero is built using protocols that from the beginning have been made for the purpose of privacy (cryptonote). But if you want to discuss the price BITCOIN is still at the peak of its heyday.

[Boristhecat]

There are people who claim that it is more anonymous than Bitcoin.

That transactions cannot be crawled.

These are obvious facts. I do not understand what can be discussed here.

[Caesar-Giulius]

If you compare bitcoin against monero, it is true that monero provides more privacy. But you are compare two coins with different features.

[btccrusher]

If you compare with only this feature (Anonymity) Yes Monero will be the winner. But there is much more fact and on average my choice would be BTC.

[hieu5189]

no one will create a worthy rivalry bitcoin. Only the etherium can do this due to the use of its base.

[Ruhul_Amin]

Yes I think monero  provides privacy, that does not mean that monero is better than bitcoin. Monero is more anonymous than Bitcoin. Moreover bitcoin is a known coin.
In my opinion bitcoin is the best

[bdfoysalhossain]

I think, if you need full privacy then monero is best for you. It is available for personal safe hints..

But bitcoin is a known coin. Privacy can provide Bitcoin if you are not involved in some illegal activity..

[CaptainBezique]

Monero is indeed more protected than Bitcoin. Technology of this currency is one of the safest to date. The unique minus of Monero is its price.

[KalaiBTC]

I think if bitcoin vs monero, I prefer bitcoin because bitcoin is more profitable than monero.

I don’t really think so that is anything common in between both the coins and that there is only one thing in common in between them and that is they are crypto coins. Other than this, there is no match in between both of them and that they don’t have any such similarity in between them. However, it is better to go for bitcoin if you are planning for long term investment of money and that go for monero at time when you go for short term investment of money.

[kirana08]

Monero is much more anonymous and private, famous for its use on the black market worldwide. Although crypto has their origin in Deepweb, BTC is not liked by the public on the dark side of the web.
and Bitcoin has a weakness as a currency that is very easy to trace, albeit anonymous and decentralized. Each government can find the origin of the transaction with the help of an expert. Monero eliminates this factor by being completely private and anonymous, completely protecting the identity and location of its users.
and this is a fact.

[Edwinc08]

         The only downside for Monero is sometimes connecting to the nodes suck, and if you have to download the whole blockchain it takes forever (like a week now). Also sometimes it becomes corrupt and you have to start over. Also there are so many bots embedded in websites that will hijack your browser to mine. Other than that, it is a brilliant currency with an amazing development team (some of the brightest and most dedicated)! They are really getting real world use, even if its for the dark web. They also have been getting a lot of attention with artists. Also their merchandise rocks! Orange Monero sweater with black zig zags! The currency is far superior to bitcoin.

                                               https://i.imgur.com/I5jwIT5.jpg

[jaggijagjit]

Bitcoin is leader of crypto market and well established coin and Monero is new coin and just start his journey last year and slowly  growing. There are a huge difference between Bitcoin and Monero price, So there is no compression between Bitcoin and Monero.

[Art 111]

A few months ago, I read a publication about the fact that scientists have developed a tool for in-depth analysis of monero transactions. This analysis allows you to get information about the person who sends them. Consequently - monero is also not absolutely anonymous.

[SnapFX]

I think altcoins, will be appreciated more in the nearest future, than bitcoin. At bitcoin now big problems with liquidity and the big commissions.

[fedykog]

In the last days you hear a lot about Monero.

Especially in the Deep Web.

There are people who claim that it is more anonymous than Bitcoin.

That transactions cannot be crawled.


MONERO

https://getmonero.org/


       

Is this it?

What do you think?

MONERO,A really cool crypt. It is considered top-1 in terms of anonymity. In the future will be a fierce competition bitcoin. We think that this is only a matter of time. If you do not delve into the subtleties, Monero makes transactions using the technology of ring signatures. Monero also hides balances through hidden one-time addresses that are randomly generated and not tied to a specific person. Monero has the strongest team, the majority of which works under pseudonyms.

[gnerro2]

Monero uses a different elliptic curve..instead of secp256k1 / ECDSA (used by bitcoin) , Monero uses Ed25519 / Curve25519 / EdDSA. in fact ehre are any perceivable difference for the user, but it's good to have a bit of diversity for avoiding a common point of failure , besides ,monero has mnemonic seeds built in by default. When you create a wallet, you're given a list of 25 words..

Finally,with Bitcoin, you get 100 addresses when you create a new wallet. If you backup, use all 100, and then create more, your backup won't have those new addresses. Monero backups are good forever. Create one backup, and it'll always work.

[espellogo7]

I think this is the perfect summary of all the features monero has that the bitcoin luck. There are a lot of people using bitcoin because they are unaware that a better alternative exist out there.. therefore bitcoin vs monero was a natural fit..

[IIIIIIIII#VIP#IIIIIIIII]

Monero at this moment - this is the main currency that is used in darknet. This is his advantage. Bitcoin has long been not used in darknet for transactions. But bitcoin remains number one in the crypto-currency world.

[9tails]

I prefer bitcoin the king of all altcoins. I don't think anyone can beat bitcoin.

[R3ffun]

In the last days you hear a lot about Monero.

Especially in the Deep Web.

There are people who claim that it is more anonymous than Bitcoin.

That transactions cannot be crawled.


MONERO

https://getmonero.org/


       

Is this it?

What do you think?

if compared between Menero with Bitcoin surely most of them would prefer Bitcoin. not only seen from the price, in terms of some aspects of Bitcoin is good and good to be a future coin.

[tambakikan]

Monero may encrypt recipient addresses in the Blockchain system to falsify them with the purpose of obscuring the identity of the sender, as well as the number of transactions it performs.

Unlike Bitcoin which uses Blockchain technology to store data such as recipient addresses and transactions, with an accurate amount of time and amount. In my opinion, bitcoin is better.

[canman]

as I know. Monster is a very good coin. But it can not compare with bitcoin in all aspects

[princess.tyche]

Judging by the marketcap rank, we all know that Bitcoin has been in the first place up until now. Bitcoin has been known for years, great development, high price, no wonder if Bitcoin is in the first rank. Monero itself, has a great offer to us, it is secure, it is untraceable, and as you know, privacy is important. If you're looking for a good investment you can choose Bitcoin, but give Monero some time, i think they'll grow bigger and better.

[Rida Zafar]

actually i think both BTC and monero are strong but BTC is the king of this world as we all know.

[cool_sakura]

if your ideal is to make some business in the darkweb, yep. Monero are for you, untraceable and secure.

absolutly agree with you )

[kevindjunaidi]

bitcoin will still win compared to other coins including monero, so I always invest in bitcoin than I invested in NEO, ETH, LTC, and Monero, because I believe the coin that will continue to increase in the future is Bitcoin.

[contactmike1]

Thats true,  Monero is far more anonymous than BTC,  you can't follow transactions via monero,  also another good crypto is Dash and Zcash,  Deeponion,  all of them will keep your privacy apart from Bitcoin

[Austin Alexis]

I think if full scale regulation comes monero could possibly be the only coin to survive. Its my opinion that bitcoin will survive and flourish but if cryptocurrency gets outright banned monero will pretty much be the only use case for crypto and that is the dark web which bitcoin is not as good as performing transactions on the dark web because its not fully anonymous

[AoniOn]

Monroe has a chance of a good result in 2018 ,but against bitcoin there is no chance

[GerardDurwin]

In the last days you hear a lot about Monero.

Especially in the Deep Web.

There are people who claim that it is more anonymous than Bitcoin.

That transactions cannot be crawled.


MONERO

https://getmonero.org/


       

Is this it?

What do you think?

Monero is great on the deep web but BTC is king

[therwas]

I think monero is good if you want to not be tracked and buy or transfer money and not pay governments any taxes , and bitcoin is more brand and known so use it in all other situations.

[sorehammer]

No comparison at all.BTC is the pioneer and King of crypto market and unmatched with any other coin in the Coin market cap.BTC is carrying highest market cap shows the trust level of investors across the globe.BTC underwent many crashes but still at the top.Monero is also another good Atlcoin and having strong community,still in growing phase,financial anonymity focused cryptocurrency,innovations are in pipeline despite all of these developments XMR will take a lot of time to come to no 3rd In crypto World.Conclusion no comparison between BTC & XMR.

[KalaiBTC]

I think altcoins, will be appreciated more in the nearest future, than bitcoin. At bitcoin now big problems with liquidity and the big commissions.

Even now, many people in the world that have knowledge about crypto currencies and blockchain technology appreciate altcoins more than bitcoin. Many altcoins have more advanced technology than bitcoin will every have. Bitcoin now has scalability issues and transaction speed and fees issue. Till these are not solved, I don’t see bitcoin going much far from here. The liquidity of bitcoin has also been compromised with time. If bitcoin is to prevail, It will have to develop its technology.

[rocketbits]

I think this is the perfect summary of all the features monero has that the bitcoin luck. There are a lot of people using bitcoin because they are unaware that a better alternative exist out there.. therefore bitcoin vs monero was a natural fit..

Though it can been that monero is better than bitcoin in terms of being anonymous and in terms of privacy and security and It can also be said that XMR is better alternative to bitcoin, but bitcoin has been in the market from the start and have made millionaire and billionaire and has given many people considerable profit, due to which the word has spread and bitcoin has become the most popular crypto currency in the world. Bitcoin is mother of all coins and it will still hold the top position for quite long.

[PanGiMoon]

In the last days you hear a lot about Monero.

Especially in the Deep Web.

There are people who claim that it is more anonymous than Bitcoin.

That transactions cannot be crawled.


MONERO

https://getmonero.org/


       

Is this it?

What do you think?

Watching what goals you pursue, yes monero anonymous than bitcoin in transactions, and much more convenient for investment. But all while support bitcoin, although it is already outdated compared with many alts.

[kurdun]

Monero as well as DASH now occupy the niche of anonymous crypto currency. As you know, bitcoin does not do well with this task

[Tetep Mesem]

In the last days you hear a lot about Monero.

Especially in the Deep Web.

There are people who claim that it is more anonymous than Bitcoin.

That transactions cannot be crawled.


MONERO

https://getmonero.org/


       

Is this it?

What do you think?

I also often hear Monero coins. Monero is a new coin that has a lot of interest from other new coins. but when compared with Bitcoin, Monero still need more effort.

[ineshaqzwilson10]

btc is the king and monero is the altcoin. Can not compare

[Aliya Taj]

Monero is a good coin with huge potential and is definitely more anonymous than BTC, but that's just what it has over Bitcoin. on the other fields it cant be possibly compared to BTC as the level of bitcoins acceptance and usage is way too high for monero

[bitgolden]

In the last days you hear a lot about Monero.

Especially in the Deep Web.

There are people who claim that it is more anonymous than Bitcoin.

That transactions cannot be crawled.


MONERO

https://getmonero.org/


       

Is this it?

What do you think?

Yes, many people nowadays are chanting the word about monero. As bitcoin was having regulatory and government issues surrounding it, many people on the dark web took towards monero XMR for making transactions. I don’t know whether monero is more anonymous than bitcoin or not, but I can assure you it is highly anonymous that any other altcoin.

And yet the transactions made through XMR cannot be detected or traced.  Monero provide high privacy and security and is considered to be one of the best private coins that exist.

[Babayan]

If you are afraid of your anonymity you should use Monero, because it has hidden transactions and nobody can see it. But btc is still the king, so it will be hard to beat it.

[Ewinsane]

Bitcoin is leader of crypto market and well established coin and Monero is new coin and just start his journey last year and slowly  growing. There are a huge difference between Bitcoin and Monero price, So there is no compression between Bitcoin and Monero.

I would like to correct you here. Monero is not a new coin and neither did it start its journey last year. Monero was launched in the year of 2014 and has been for quite long it the market and has slowly made its way up to the top 10 crypto currency list.

I agree monero is completely anonymous, so is the bitcoin, doesn’t make much difference. Bitcoin though on the other side need to improve its tech in order to prevail at top against the other altcoins and maintain its position in coin market cap.

[uzitgc]

I think that always it all depends on what u r looking for... If u want anonymity then of course u go for monero. Irgendwie so...

[darkr]

actually i think both BTC and monero are strong but BTC is the king of this world as we all know.

I know the guy, who has earned really a lot investing in Monero. The coin is really cool, but I will never compare it with Bitcoin. As for me, I prefer to hold both of these cryptocurrencies in my wallet.

[paul heman]

In the last days you hear a lot about Monero.

Especially in the Deep Web.

There are people who claim that it is more anonymous than Bitcoin.

That transactions cannot be crawled.


MONERO

https://getmonero.org/


       

Is this it?

What do you think?

Monero also includes nice and growing coins. Monero has a pretty good level of interest. but if Monero is compared to Bitcoin, it is obvious Bitcoin will be chosen by most people. but I myself choose Monero because I want to try Altcoin for now.

[trinhdinhthang20007]

There are a lot of technological comparisons so that a coin can pass and replace the BTC, but there is not a coin to do that. In terms of many aspects of BTC, there are many limitations in many aspects, however, BTC has taken the lead so it represents a new generation, technology generation 4.0. The BTC will be replaced sooner or later, BTC will not be able to keep its crown, but the replacement coin must be superior and very much backed by a new revolution. Personally, I am very much looking forward to XMR.

[gorodi]

Bitcoin seems to me a currency much more famous and stable. Better to invest in Bitcoin. I'm doing it actually. But some money can be invested in Monero also. I have several altcoins in my portfolio.

[Vart4varta]

The growth rates of almost all the largest crypto-currencies look equally sky-high compared to traditional investment instruments. However, if you look closely, we will see that Monero is slightly ahead of bitcoin. At the same time, both crypto currencies are far from the ether, which managed to grow by about 3500% since the beginning of the year.

[BitcoinCazh]

anonymous is not necessary for a cryptocurrence, monero can't replace bitcoin even in deep web.

its not correct, some whale certainly agree if invest in crypto need protect from outside anonymous is one point plus in crypto to hide from anymore, so you dont wrong we need anonymous if can more like monero

[dwiady]

it is one of monero feature that is Fungibility (RingCT) with fungibillity feature When we receive cash, we can only know the last hand that give the money. We can not figure out where the money is from and how the cash path from the Bank gets to us. This guarantees the value of each sheet of money with the same nominal, actually having the same value (called fungibility).

[zerrtty]

anonymous is not necessary for a cryptocurrence, monero can't replace bitcoin even in deep web.

They can co exist,they both have both  strong point,as long as they have a community behind them and people are actually using them,but in terms of adoption I believe Bitcoin has a big edge,because of so many merchants accepting Bitcoin than Monero.

Both coins and Monero, and Bitcoin, are excellent for investment. But in terms of budget allocation, I would invest more in Bitcoin, since it is the most fundamental coin. If to argue from the point of view of technologies Monero has a great anonymity. than Bitcoin.

[yoerumo]

I have without a doubt heard a great deal that monero is utilized as a part of profound web for exchanges the same number of individuals assert it to be more secure and has more namelessness than bitcoin. I don't know so much how obscurity really functions nor I mind much as I don't do anything illicit. However, the main reason I really like monero is a direct result of its cost and returns it has been giving laterly.

[Maknae09]

In the last days you hear a lot about Monero.

Especially in the Deep Web.

There are people who claim that it is more anonymous than Bitcoin.

That transactions cannot be crawled.


MONERO

https://getmonero.org/


       

Is this it?

What do you think?

I don't ever get the confirmation about its rumor. but if we try to compare bitcoin and monero and both are in the different area. If you try to pick the anonymity and monero is the winner.

I think it's defend on which from two you refer. Much better to think deeply because good investors are not easy to trust.  But for my own experience bitcoin is the best.

[Defimwh]

bitcoin still won the market because now btc is still the reference of crypto currency, because bitcoin also has a very solid block and the circulation of transactions every time there must be, especially in countries that legalize bitcoin