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Author Topic: Open Letter to GMaxwell and Sincere Rational Core Devs  (Read 33042 times)
traincarswreck
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March 06, 2017, 03:42:59 AM
 #561



Over time, whatever the device is, will lose more of its supply of the original whole.
This leads to the remaining pieces of the original whole gaining price, if still demanded.

So simply, as things are lost, the remaining gains.
Right which means each unit increases in value, thus its not stable in value, because its increasing and increasing value implies not stable value. right?  bitcoin won't be stable in value, bitcoin will be increasing in value, and again thats not stable, thats increasing.
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March 06, 2017, 03:47:01 AM
 #562



Over time, whatever the device is, will lose more of its supply of the original whole.
This leads to the remaining pieces of the original whole gaining price, if still demanded.

So simply, as things are lost, the remaining gains.
Right which means each unit increases in value, thus its not stable in value, because its increasing and increasing value implies not stable value. right?  bitcoin won't be stable in value, bitcoin will be increasing in value, and again thats not stable, thats increasing.

Lol, right. But then why is my statements/clarification below incorrect?

...
...
bitcoin cannot be stable in value
ideal money is money stable in value
bitcoin cannot be ideal money
...
I've repeated this over and over and its simple and obvious.
...
bitcoin cannot decline in value
ideal money is money stabilized by bitcoin's inability to decline in value
Bitcoin cannot be the "ideal money"
...

Are you saying "increasing in value" and "cannot decline in value" are two separate things?

Edit: Oh I see... You are only saying there is no stable value, so it should be "bitcoin will increase in value".
"Bitcoin cannot decline in value" implies there could be stabilization.

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traincarswreck
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March 06, 2017, 03:53:28 AM
 #563


Declining in value implies there may be stabilization.

how can something declining in value also be stable in value when its declining (and therefore not stable)?
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March 06, 2017, 03:54:12 AM
 #564


Declining in value implies there may be stabilization.

how can something declining in value also be stable in value when its declining (and therefore not stable)?

That was a type, see my correction above.

...
Edit: Oh I see... You are only saying there is no stable value, so it should be "bitcoin will increase in value".
"Bitcoin cannot decline in value" implies there could be stabilization.

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traincarswreck
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March 06, 2017, 03:56:07 AM
 #565


"Bitcoin cannot decline in value" implies there could be stabilization.

bitcoin increases in value over time which means its not stable in value and it will never be stable in value, which means it won't be stable in value. bitcoin won't be stable in value, there is nothing being implied.
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March 06, 2017, 03:58:38 AM
 #566


"Bitcoin cannot decline in value" implies there could be stabilization.

bitcoin increases in value over time which means its not stable in value and it will never be stable in value, which means it won't be stable in value. bitcoin won't be stable in value, there is nothing being implied.

OK so:

bitcoin will increase in value
ideal money is money stabilized by bitcoin's ability to increase in value
Bitcoin cannot be the "ideal money"

Correct now?

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traincarswreck
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March 06, 2017, 04:00:55 AM
 #567


bitcoin will increase in value
Bitcoin cannot be the "ideal money"

Correct now?
i took out the part that is wrong.
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March 06, 2017, 04:06:05 AM
 #568


yet by you saying bitcoin is like gold, and gold is stable. and/or bitcoin should be more like gold
then gold should halt its ability to change how many transactions in a certain time period can occur.

golds tx/s has been changed, does change. will change
1940's only physical tx taking days to move.
1980's computer age. gold transactions move via computer transactions. and also physical gold coins. from banks pawnn brokers etc
millennium gold vending machines and even electronic stores.

These aren't examples of the nature of gold changing.

And you are wrong, bitcoin isn't beyond nash, nash spoke many years in the future beyond the advent of bitcoin. This is clear, and he was clear about this.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2642475/nasa-to-explore-asteroid-16-psyche-which-is-so-valuable-it-could-crash-the-worlds-economy/
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March 06, 2017, 04:09:21 AM
 #569


bitcoin will increase in value
Bitcoin cannot be the "ideal money"

Correct now?
i took out the part that is wrong.

But then you need to explain bitcoin's relation to the "ideal money".


bitcoin will increase in value (YES)
bitcoin is the "other alternative" due to increase in value. (?)
"other alternative" ushers in the "ideal money". (?)
"ideal money" will be pegged against a Stable Value, a device like bitcoin. (?)
bitcoin cannot be the "ideal money" (YES)

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traincarswreck
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March 06, 2017, 04:24:34 AM
 #570

Yes.  And szabo explains deep sea mining and mining astroids and eventually planets, and nash notes there is lots of gold.  Its just the cost of digging for it gets higher the deeper you dig, so there is a throttle to some regard.

Nash talks about how as we explore space we will lose this certain scarce perspective. 

Also its relevant to note as we free gold up for industrial use rather than as a savings, it will allow more space travel and deep sea and the political difficulties for doing so will subside.
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March 06, 2017, 04:26:46 AM
 #571


But then you need to explain bitcoin's relation to the "ideal money".

bitcoin will increase in value (YES)
bitcoin is the "other alternative" due to increase in value. (?)
bitcoin cannot be the "ideal money" (YES)
"other alternative" ushers in the "ideal money". (?)


I explained over and over.  Bitcoin is expected to be, if we don't change it, FAIRLY stable in value, this suggest as time goes by and bitcoin becomes more relevant as a savings, fiat's stability of value will have to improve in relation.

The ultimate result is that fiat will tend towards perfectly stable value.


Quote
"ideal money" will be pegged against a Stable Value, a device like bitcoin. (?)
Bitcoin ISN'T FUCKING STABLE!!!!
AgentofCoin
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March 06, 2017, 04:48:51 AM
 #572


But then you need to explain bitcoin's relation to the "ideal money".

bitcoin will increase in value (YES)
bitcoin is the "other alternative" due to increase in value. (?)
bitcoin cannot be the "ideal money" (YES)
"other alternative" ushers in the "ideal money". (?)


I explained over and over.  Bitcoin is expected to be, if we don't change it, FAIRLY stable in value, this suggest as time goes by and bitcoin becomes more relevant as a savings, fiat's stability of value will have to improve in relation.

The ultimate result is that fiat will tend towards perfectly stable value.


Quote
"ideal money" will be pegged against a Stable Value, a device like bitcoin. (?)
Bitcoin ISN'T FUCKING STABLE!!!!

Lol, Ok.
So

bitcoin will increase in value (YES)
bitcoin is the "other alternative" due to increase in value. (YES)
bitcoin cannot be the "ideal money" (YES)
"other alternative" ushers in the "ideal money". (YES)

"ideal money" will be fiat money pegged to "ideal gold" (?)
"ideal money"'s only existence is to compete with the "other alternative". (?)

Clarify.

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traincarswreck
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March 06, 2017, 04:59:54 AM
 #573


Lol, Ok.
So

bitcoin will increase in value (YES)
bitcoin is the "other alternative" due to increase in value. (YES)
bitcoin cannot be the "ideal money" (YES)
"other alternative" ushers in the "ideal money". (YES)

"ideal money" will be fiat money pegged to "ideal gold" (?)
"bitcoin's only existence is to compete with the "other alternative". (?)

Clarify.
fyp
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March 06, 2017, 05:06:39 AM
 #574

...
bitcoin will increase in value (YES)
bitcoin is the "other alternative" due to increase in value. (YES)
bitcoin cannot be the "ideal money" (YES)
"other alternative" ushers in the "ideal money". (YES)

"ideal money" will be fiat money pegged to "ideal gold" (?)
"bitcoin's only existence is to compete with the "other alternative". (?)
...
fyp

That doesn't make sense now. Point 2 now contradicts Point 6.
"bitcoin is the "other alternative" due to increase in value." can
not be true if "bitcoin's only existence is to compete with
the "other alternative".

Do you mean this?
"bitcoin's only existence is to compete with as the "other alternative".?

I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
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traincarswreck
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March 06, 2017, 05:31:42 AM
 #575

Scratch that, I mean to say bitcoin's existence is to force fiat to compete in value. 
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March 06, 2017, 05:42:45 AM
 #576

Now I am lost.

Bitcoin is expected to be, if we don't change it, FAIRLY stable in value
Bitcoin ISN'T FUCKING STABLE!!!!

My take away from these two statements plus the entire premise of this thread is the following:

1. If we do not change Bitcoin it is not and will never be stable but it will be stable enough for the desired purpose of creating a real absolute (enough) metric of value, but

2. If we do change Bitcoin it is still not and will still never be stable and it will not be stable enough for the desired purpose of creating a real absolute (enough) metric of value?

Is that what you are saying?

I thought I was understanding until this last couple of pages.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 06, 2017, 05:45:42 AM
 #577

Scratch that, I mean to say bitcoin's existence is to force fiat to compete in value.  
OK that makes sense with prior statements then.
but lets change "bitcoin's existence" with "other alternative" for clarity.

---

So, if bitcoin maintains current gold like properties, including not increasing
the TPS whether on-chain or off-chains, then:

(1) bitcoin will increase in value (YES)
(2) bitcoin is the "other alternative" due to increase in value. (YES)
(3) bitcoin cannot be the "ideal money" (YES)

(4) "other alternatives" existence is to force fiat to compete in value. (YES)
(5) "other alternative" ushers in the "ideal money". (YES)

(6) "Ideal money" is the end result of the competition. (?)
(7) "Ideal money" will be fiat money pegged to "Ideal gold" (?)

---

Check 6 and 7, do you agree? If so, explain the "Ideal gold" more since I
do not think you have explain in depth prior.

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traincarswreck
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March 06, 2017, 05:49:08 AM
 #578


My take away from these two statements plus the entire premise of this thread is the following:

1. If we do not change Bitcoin it is not and will never be stable but it will be stable enough for the desired purpose of creating a real absolute (enough) metric of value, but

2. If we do change Bitcoin it is still not and will still never be stable and it will not be stable enough for the desired purpose of creating a real absolute (enough) metric of value?

Is that what you are saying?

I thought I was understanding until this last couple of pages.
Yes what is not consistent here?
traincarswreck
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March 06, 2017, 05:51:23 AM
 #579



(6) "Ideal money" is the end result of the competition. (?)
(7) "Ideal money" will be fiat money pegged to "Ideal gold" (?)

---

Check 6 and 7, do you agree? If so, explain the "Ideal gold" more since I
do not think you have explain in depth prior.
yes to 6.

There is no need for 7.
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March 06, 2017, 05:53:04 AM
 #580


My take away from these two statements plus the entire premise of this thread is the following:

1. If we do not change Bitcoin it is not and will never be stable but it will be stable enough for the desired purpose of creating a real absolute (enough) metric of value, but

2. If we do change Bitcoin it is still not and will still never be stable and it will not be stable enough for the desired purpose of creating a real absolute (enough) metric of value?

Is that what you are saying?

I thought I was understanding until this last couple of pages.
Yes what is not consistent here?
One last question to maybe get me back on track:  Is Bitcoin the metric of value?

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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