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Author Topic: Open Letter to GMaxwell and Sincere Rational Core Devs  (Read 33230 times)
Carlton Banks
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March 15, 2017, 10:54:39 PM
 #961

You're talking about a system where banks are the sun around which planetary markets evolve, which is very much contrary to what Mises and Hayek wrote, of whom I'm familiar.

The markets and banks using an effectively closed shop to create over-complex financial instruments that essentially allow them to surreptitiously fix prices is not an example of banks playing a useful role, it's in actual fact the soft-fascist facsimile of communistic price fixing.



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Carlton Banks
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March 15, 2017, 10:55:22 PM
 #962

So, again:

What useful role can banks play in Bitcoin at all? Huh Everything they can do, the individual can do better. If you mean that everyone becomes their own bank, I guess the statement could be sensibly argued, but I doubt that's what Nash meant

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AgentofCoin
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March 15, 2017, 11:04:58 PM
 #963

So, again:

What useful role can banks play in Bitcoin at all? Huh Everything they can do, the individual can do better. If you mean that everyone becomes their own bank, I guess the statement could be sensibly argued, but I doubt that's what Nash meant

Just for sake of argument: the banks could hold your privatekeys in this proposed future,
since the average person could not be trusted to protect their own wealth. The banks would hold
and insure their btc. This is contrary to what Satoshi intended, "be your own bank", but ultimately
the average person is not qualified to fully protect themselves from all types of btc theft.

I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
Request a signed message if you are associating with anyone claiming to be me.
traincarswreck
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March 15, 2017, 11:10:38 PM
 #964

You're talking about a system where banks are the sun around which planetary markets evolve, which is very much contrary to what Mises and Hayek wrote, of whom I'm familiar.

The markets and banks using an effectively closed shop to create over-complex financial instruments that essentially allow them to surreptitiously fix prices is not an example of banks playing a useful role, it's in actual fact the soft-fascist facsimile of communistic price fixing.



Good you have read Hayek:

Quote from: ideal money
Subsequent to that time [1997], after consulting with some of the economics faculty at Princeton, I learned of the work and publications of Friedrich von Hayek. I must say that my thinking is apparently quite parallel to his thinking in relation to money and particularly with regard to the non-typical viewpoint in relation to the function of the authorities which in recent times have been the sources of currencies (earlier “coinage”).)~Ideal Money

Now that we understand Nash to be inline with Hayek we can start to understand the relationship.  Banks are good, they can just be better, because they can control inflation it IS possible for them to print ideal money, they just don't because there is no incentive.
traincarswreck
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March 15, 2017, 11:25:00 PM
 #965

Hayek gives the same argument based on the same conceptual basis of the introduction of a "good" international money which evokes competition (https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@jokerpravis/internationally-ideal-money-the-re-solution-of-nashian-and-hayekian-economic-theory):
Quote from: Hayek
I will readily admit that such a provisional solution (on which the experimentation of competition might gradually improve), though giving us an infinitely better money and much more general economic stability than we have ever had, leaves open various questions to which I have no ready answer. But it seems to meet the most urgent needs much better than any prospects that seemed to exist while one did not contemplate the abolition of the monopoly of the issue of money and the free admission of competition into the business of providing currency.

Quote from: Hayek
The purpose of this scheme is to impose upon existing monetary and financial agencies a very much needed discipline by making it impossible for any of them, or for any length of time, to issues a kind of money substantially less reliable and useful than the money of any other. As soon as the public became familiar with the new possibilities, any deviations from the straight path of providing an honest money would at once lead to the rapid displacement of the offending currency by others. And the individual countries, being deprived of the various dodges by which they are now able temporarily to conceal the effects of their actions by 'protecting' their currency, would be constrained to keep the value of their currencies tolerably stable.

In comparison to Nash:

Quote from: Ideal Money

    ...what is more significant from an internationally oriented viewpoint, the various currencies would have rates of exchange so that they could be realistically compared in terms of their actual values.

    So here is the possibility of “asymptotically ideal money”. Starting with the idea of value stabilization in relation to a domestic price index associated with the territory of one state, beyond that there is the natural and logical concept of internationally based value comparisons. The currencies being compared, like now the euro, the dollar, the yen, the pound, the swiss franc, the swedish kronor, etc. can be viewed with critical eyes by their users and by those who may have the option of whether or not or how to use one of them. This can lead to pressure for good quality and consequently for a lessened rate of inflationary depreciation in value.
Carlton Banks
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March 16, 2017, 06:07:31 AM
 #966

What useful role can banks play in Bitcoin at all? Huh Everything they can do, the individual can do better. If you mean that everyone becomes their own bank, I guess the statement could be sensibly argued, but I doubt that's what Nash meant

Why aren't any of you capable of -

  • reading this question
  • answering this question


I actually want to hear your erudite answers, but you seem highly adverse to reading or answering the actual question I'm asking.

Vires in numeris
traincarswreck
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March 16, 2017, 06:24:50 AM
 #967

What useful role can banks play in Bitcoin at all? Huh Everything they can do, the individual can do better. If you mean that everyone becomes their own bank, I guess the statement could be sensibly argued, but I doubt that's what Nash meant

Why aren't any of you capable of -

  • reading this question
  • answering this question


I actually want to hear your erudite answers, but you seem highly adverse to reading or answering the actual question I'm asking.
ive answered it like 5 times in different ways I don't think you understand what banks are for.

How about this, the times you are thinking about, where there are no banks, is beyond your lifetime.  Banks do far more than a crypto currency can do, certainly at this point in time.

Nonetheless you certainly aren't understanding your question. The individual cannot do what a bank can do, thats a silly assertion.  Read szabo or hayek again.
Carlton Banks
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March 16, 2017, 06:47:40 AM
 #968

What useful role can banks play in Bitcoin at all? Huh Everything they can do, the individual can do better. If you mean that everyone becomes their own bank, I guess the statement could be sensibly argued, but I doubt that's what Nash meant

Why aren't any of you capable of -

  • reading this question
  • answering this question


I actually want to hear your erudite answers, but you seem highly adverse to reading or answering the actual question I'm asking.

Vires in numeris
traincarswreck
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March 16, 2017, 07:04:16 AM
 #969

Everything they can do, the individual can do better.
false.  you are making an ass out of yourself.
Carlton Banks
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March 16, 2017, 07:09:08 AM
 #970

What useful role can banks play in Bitcoin at all? Huh Everything they can do, the individual can do better. If you mean that everyone becomes their own bank, I guess the statement could be sensibly argued, but I doubt that's what Nash meant


Respond with actual reasoning please, it's not too much to ask, I think you can do it

Vires in numeris
traincarswreck
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March 16, 2017, 07:16:11 AM
 #971

I don't agree with the assertion its silly, how am I supposed to give reasoning for it when there is none?
Carlton Banks
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March 16, 2017, 07:20:28 AM
 #972

You're refusing to answer the question? It's because you can't, isn't that right? It contradicts your Ideal Money dogma, doesn't it?

Vires in numeris
traincarswreck
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March 16, 2017, 07:27:05 AM
 #973

You're refusing to answer the question? It's because you can't, isn't that right? It contradicts your Ideal Money dogma, doesn't it?
you are in front of a group of intelligent people.  You have made an assertion and asked me to back it up with reason.  I have repeatedly told you the assertion is false and asinine.  And you repeatedly are making fun of me for not being able to come up with the reason for an unreasonable argument.

How many more posts will be in this thread of you being completely unreasonable and assertive about  it?
Carlton Banks
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March 16, 2017, 07:44:44 AM
 #974

You're refusing to answer the question? It's because you can't, isn't that right? It contradicts your Ideal Money dogma, doesn't it?


What useful role can banks play in Bitcoin at all? Huh Everything they can do, the individual can do better. If you mean that everyone becomes their own bank, I guess the statement could be sensibly argued, but I doubt that's what Nash meant

Vires in numeris
AGD
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March 16, 2017, 08:20:21 AM
 #975

Quote
What useful role can banks play in Bitcoin at all?

OP believes that Bitcoin will force the banking system to invent the "Ideal Money", so it is not important for him if, and how much of a role they will play in Bitcoin.

I think banks and governments will try to keep their current system working as is and they will try to destroy Bitcoin as soon as a critical level of some parameters are reached. And they will have a lot of different powers to achieve that.

My ignore list here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1652334.0 +++ GPG Public key FFBD756C24B54962E6A772EA1C680D74DB714D40 +++ http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x1C680D74DB714D40
BurtW
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All paid signature campaigns should be banned.


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March 17, 2017, 12:17:33 AM
 #976

Here is a sad thread that proves that Bitcoin is not good for micro-transactions.  Micro-transactions need to move to another crypto and leave Bitcoin for larger value transactions:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1829494.0

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
jonald_fyookball
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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political


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March 17, 2017, 02:24:37 AM
 #977

Here is a sad thread that proves that Bitcoin is not good for micro-transactions.  Micro-transactions need to move to another crypto and leave Bitcoin for larger value transactions:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1829494.0

Burt, you're always my friend... but i definitely don't agree at all.  Bitcoin can scale if Blockstream gets out of the way.  That's all I'm gonna say as I've
argued this to death in a dozen threads.


traincarswreck
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March 17, 2017, 04:28:36 AM
 #978

one of my posts was deleted for being off topic.  yet numb nuts repeats the same post 7 times and nothing and no one says nothing.

I'm in a zoo, with monkeys.  I have no bananas left.
AGD
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March 17, 2017, 05:55:05 AM
 #979

one of my posts was deleted for being off topic.  yet numb nuts repeats the same post 7 times and nothing and no one says nothing.

I'm in a zoo, with monkeys.  I have no bananas left.

/thread

My ignore list here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1652334.0 +++ GPG Public key FFBD756C24B54962E6A772EA1C680D74DB714D40 +++ http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x1C680D74DB714D40
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You lead and I'll watch you walk away.


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March 17, 2017, 06:04:31 AM
 #980

one of my posts was deleted for being off topic.  yet numb nuts repeats the same post 7 times and nothing and no one says nothing.

I'm in a zoo, with monkeys.  I have no bananas left.


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