Fuck: SegWit, LN, Blockstream, Core, Adam Back, and GMazwell

[franky1]

edit
to counter the fail of calling it Fud/conspiracy from trainwreck

I didn't call it a conspiracy, I am asking you if you are claiming there is a conspiracy by blockstream that we should fear which signifies uncertainty for the future of bitcoin which implies we should doubt the current direction it is going?

Also, assuming you are not a fan of Adam Back, I should point out he was an original cypher punk (as I understand), and quoted in Satoshi's whitepaper, seemingly obviously trusted and respected by Satoshi.

to read someones white paper and quote them.. does not mean you understand or know the person behind it.
they were not friends. infact satoshi never talked to adam back.. all adam back got was an email from satoshi saying that satoshi quoted part of adam backs white paper as a small fraction of satoshi's idea/concept. and said adam is free to join.
adam didnt take much notice until years later AFTER bitcoin became a thing and satoshi moved on.

just like reading john Nash's white paper and watching a few youtube video's and a movie doesnt make anyone john nashes best friend, or someone that knows nash well or someone that understands nash

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[electronicash]

ENOUGH OF THIS BULLSHIT! WE HAVE A FIRST-MOVER

Bitcoin Classic is splitting off

As an act of good faith, and to resolve this fight amicably so we can all move on, we have decided to split off. We wish all the best to those who continue on the other path.

Bitcoin is finally saved! Bitcoin Classic has decided to end this BullShit SegWit vs. BU drama by simply splitting off. This is actually a really good news because we get the good old Bitcoin back and we can be sure they are not trying to implement anything crazy and dangerous such as the SegWit soft fork hack or ermergent consensus. Both suck. Bitcoin Classic is the way to go, we get block size increase and gradual enhancements to the Bitcoin protocol. I'm with Bitcoin Classic.

https://imgur.com/a/whClL

fake.
either way its not going to save anything either. there is nothing difference with classic. its going to be bullshit still and the issues are still solved. another failure again. ain't this going to end up like ETC?

[Hyena]

fake.
either way its not going to save anything either. there is nothing difference with classic. its going to be bullshit still and the issues are still solved. another failure again. ain't this going to end up like ETC?

ok so it's fake the idea is good nevertheless. If we can't solve this the nice way let's do it the ugly way. I get to keep coins in all chains so let the best one win. I don't care. Fact is that Core is holding back BTC from reaching 10 000$ right now, so after a fork we lose maybe 30% of its current value in short term but after that it will be Moon.

[nutildah]

ENOUGH OF THIS BULLSHIT! WE HAVE A FIRST-MOVER

Bitcoin Classic is splitting off

As an act of good faith, and to resolve this fight amicably so we can all move on, we have decided to split off. We wish all the best to those who continue on the other path.

Bitcoin is finally saved!

You mean Bitcoin Classic is saved. The link promises:

"A return to the Bitcoin from a year ago."

Lol, this is ridiculously misleading. It's a return to nothing and the spin-off of yet another altcoin. The only difference is this one is a blatant rip-off of bitcoin. If you wanted to make a new coin you should give it a new name altogether. All that can possibly happen is merchant confusion. That's what they're hoping for I guess.

[corebob]

The protocol should be neutral to a 2nd layer, and I expect competition between several second layer networks over fees.
Even better, low end users should be able to participate by running LN nodes, getting a cut of the fees.

That's what I expect from this, and that's why I support SegWit

...removed rant...

blockstream get the 1sat's per payment.

even funnier part is LN has fixed the fee at % of amount.(which actually limits how many transactions you can make offchain)
EG if 1%= 100 payments and literally your money is gone in mostly fee's

Sounds like a failure, which would be fine with me. I don't want anything to do with a coin that can not avoid cartels at lowest (central bank) layer.
If they can't provide a needed and useful service, they can and should be replaced.
That's basically it.

[uchalkql]

Roger Ver, open your eyes please.

The reason why the price is going down is because we don't like the BU threat that will give the power over the blocksize to just 5 mining pool operators (or effectively 1 ASIC manufacturer.) I like bitcoin for it's decentralization properties, not because I trust Jihan Wu so much. I will never accept the idiotic idea called "emergent consensus."

Two big mistakes:
1)
Prices are down because they didn't increase the blocksize to 2MB.
If they had, all this discussion would not be happening and the bitcoin price would be USD $2,000.00

2)
If miners would like to collude, they could do it now.
They don't need a bigger block in order to do it.
So I think your argument is a bad excuse.

[Hyena]

ENOUGH OF THIS BULLSHIT! WE HAVE A FIRST-MOVER

Bitcoin Classic is splitting off

As an act of good faith, and to resolve this fight amicably so we can all move on, we have decided to split off. We wish all the best to those who continue on the other path.

Bitcoin is finally saved!

You mean Bitcoin Classic is saved. The link promises:

"A return to the Bitcoin from a year ago."

Lol, this is ridiculously misleading. It's a return to nothing and the spin-off of yet another altcoin. The only difference is this one is a blatant rip-off of bitcoin. If you wanted to make a new coin you should give it a new name altogether. All that can possibly happen is merchant confusion. That's what they're hoping for I guess.

Merge mining is really good idea for any faction of Bitcoin wishing to split. That way miners will get coins on all chains and the new network is secure.

[Quickseller]

To be entirely fair, it was core supporters who artificially crashed the market by selling 20k btc on bitfinex and gdax after the first xt block was mined. So if anything, the selloff was core supporters trying to manipulate the price...

Care to back that up with some proof ?

https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3hhbm5/first_mined_xt_block_370434/
https://twitter.com/bitfinex/status/633811197452775424

Before we go even further how are you telling this are Core supporters ?

What else could it possibly be? The timing fits exactly, and there is no legitimate reason to dump that many coins all at once other than to manipulate the public perception of xt.

[uchalkql]

That is the problem with Core, they all think they are smarter than Satoshi, but none of them actually are. They talk big and play the act, but their decisions kept running Bitcoin into the ground, then instead of fixing it they act like they're proud of it.

So true.
How can someone not be impressed after reading Satoshi's original paper? With all the perfect design and foresight he had?
Of course there are better CODERs than Satoshi currently in Core, but I doubt anyone there has a better ECONOMIC VISION that Satoshi had!
It's a lot of pretense and arrogance to think they are better than Satoshi.

[Hyena]

That is the problem with Core, they all think they are smarter than Satoshi, but none of them actually are. They talk big and play the act, but their decisions kept running Bitcoin into the ground, then instead of fixing it they act like they're proud of it.

So true.
How can someone not be impressed after reading Satoshi's original paper? With all the perfect design and foresight he had?
Of course there are better CODERs than Satoshi currently in Core, but I doubt anyone there has a better ECONOMIC VISION that Satoshi had!
It's a lot of pretense and arrogance to think they are better than Satoshi.

At least we have Bitcoin 2.0 tech such as Byteball waiting behind the corner to fill in Bitcoin's place in case BTC finally actually dies. The great thing about ByteBall is that its initial distribution is 98% based on Bitcoin, so all current Bitcoin holders would get free byteballs, just sign your byteball address with the private keys of your bitcoins it's free money.

[jonald_fyookball]

Sorry Greg:  The irony was too irresistible. 

you will not convert it to the centralized coin you seem to so desperately want.
 

[uchalkql]

Also, assuming you are not a fan of Adam Back, I should point out he was an original cypher punk (as I understand), and quoted in Satoshi's whitepaper, seemingly obviously trusted and respected by Satoshi.

Nonsense, as all your comments.
You can't assume that someone trust another only because it is quoted in some paper.
The only thing you assume is that Satoshi respects/trusts Adam Back's Hashcash work.

[traincarswreck]

If LN siphons off the majority of network fees, how will miners get paid?

Your premise wrong, and you have shown to the community you don't understand the subject you are referring to.

You didn't answer the question.

It was already explained to you that your premise is irrational, there is no way to properly answer your question.

to read someones white paper and quote them.. does not mean you understand or know the person behind it.
they were not friends. infact satoshi never talked to adam back.. all adam back got was an email from satoshi saying that satoshi quoted part of adam backs white paper as a small fraction of satoshi's idea/concept. and said adam is free to join.
adam didnt take much notice until years later AFTER bitcoin became a thing and satoshi moved on.

just like reading john Nash's white paper and watching a few youtube video's and a movie doesnt make anyone john nashes best friend, or someone that knows nash well or someone that understands nash

All BU supporters claim they know Satoshi's vision because they read the whitepaper.

Also, assuming you are not a fan of Adam Back, I should point out he was an original cypher punk (as I understand), and quoted in Satoshi's whitepaper, seemingly obviously trusted and respected by Satoshi.

Nonsense, as all your comments.
You can't assume that someone trust another only because it is quoted in some paper.
The only thing you assume is that Satoshi respects/trusts Adam Back's Hashcash work.

Nearly all my posts are pointing out that others' arguments are not based on founded science, that can hardly be called nonsensical person with 20 posts.

When I am saying "trust" I am really referring to the synonymous relationship between intelligence and trust, Satoshi quoted Back as having a relevant partial understanding of the proposal.

This is in contrast to you and others that claim to understand bitcoin better than someone who was cited (and was asked to be cited) in the bitcoin whitepaper.  THAT is a nonsensical baseless claim.

[traincarswreck]

That is the problem with Core, they all think they are smarter than Satoshi, but none of them actually are. They talk big and play the act, but their decisions kept running Bitcoin into the ground, then instead of fixing it they act like they're proud of it.

So true.
How can someone not be impressed after reading Satoshi's original paper? With all the perfect design and foresight he had?
Of course there are better CODERs than Satoshi currently in Core, but I doubt anyone there has a better ECONOMIC VISION that Satoshi had!
It's a lot of pretense and arrogance to think they are better than Satoshi.

No one is arguing they know better than Satoshi, what they are arguing is that YOU and other BU supporters don't understand Satoshi's proposal because you are not educated whatsoever on the subject.  And you know nothing about economics either.  You are confused.

[chopstick]

BU supporters know nothing about economics but Core thinks high fees, reduced utility and a declining userbase is great.

Okay.

[OneUnderBridge]

This thread looks like the thread where all the smart people hang out.  I've been watching for awhile and learning what I can, but I haven't committed any of my money to anything here yet.  I wanted to get in soon but now I am scared. Is this a good time? Should I download the BU client or the core client? Does it matter who wins?

[jonald_fyookball]

This thread looks like the thread where all the smart people hang out.  I've been watching for awhile and learning what I can, but I haven't committed any of my money to anything here yet.  I wanted to get in soon but now I am scared. Is this a good time? Should I download the BU client or the core client? Does it matter who wins?

Honestly you should stick around and learn more and then make your own decision.

If you own bitcoin, then you'll own bitcoin on both chains of a network split so from that standpoint it doesn't matter 'who wins' but there will be implications with regards to Bitcoin's place in the world and value.


 

[traincarswreck]

BU supporters know nothing about economics but Core thinks high fees, reduced utility and a declining userbase is great.

Okay.

Absolutely and its a founded argument.  The tacit assumption that high fees will kill bitcoin's value is not founded in any accepted economic theory.  Rolling your eyes doesn't change this.

[OneUnderBridge]

This thread looks like the thread where all the smart people hang out.  I've been watching for awhile and learning what I can, but I haven't committed any of my money to anything here yet.  I wanted to get in soon but now I am scared. Is this a good time? Should I download the BU client or the core client? Does it matter who wins?

Honestly you should stick around and learn more and then make your own decision.

If you own bitcoin, then you'll own bitcoin on both chains of a network split so from that standpoint it doesn't matter 'who wins' but there will be implications with regards to Bitcoin's place in the world and value.


 

I don't own any bitcoin yet but the price was starting to look good. Everybody in the coffee shop was trying to convince me to invest in ethereum, but I haven't been studying ethereum, just bitcoin.  Ethereum is too much to digest and bitcoin has continued to surpass expectation.  I'm starting to think that this event is real and bitcoin might suffer but I don't want to miss out on a good deal.  Is this argument as serious has it sounds?  Is bitcoin really dying this time?

[Hyena]

In 2012 when I bought my bitcoins I was thinking that I'm not going to sell before 10 years. If Core gets its way I might have to sell sooner because Core's vision of Bitcoin is not what I signed up for in 2012.