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Author Topic: [ANN][ECA] Electra ⚡ | POS 3.0e | Super Rewards Bonanza  (Read 144140 times)
altfeeder
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January 30, 2019, 07:11:56 PM
 #2961

Dear Stakeholders,

31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.
Will this amount be deducted from the 200m that's scheduled to be transferred to the Foundation this week?
On the Foundation...I was under the impression they would be providing some kind of accounting for the funds.  To date,  they've already spent about 14,000,000, or approx 13% of their initial funds (100m from you,  5m from donation wallet),  with no accounting for it, at least not publicly as they'd claimed. 
They also said they'd be posting minutes from their meetings,  which they've also failed to do. 
This lack of transparency or accountibility is really concerning. They've been set up for over 3 months now, so the excuse that it's "new" I don't think is valid anymore.
I think you should reconsider sending any additional funds to the Foundation until such time as they can account for their spending and supply meeting minutes. 
By all accounts,  you are more transparent than the Foundation,  and the premine would be better off in your hands. 
I just saw on Discord that Robert claims the Foundation hasn't spent 14 million... Which means he doesn't know what's going on,  or its something he doesn't want known.  This brings up another question of who exactly has access to the funds and who authorizes or keeps track? If Robert himself doesn't have a clue,  the options are
A) they have no real foundation control and it's all a front for someone else actually controlling the funds,
B) they're unprofessional, disorganized, & haven't been keeping track,  or
C) they've transferred funds secretly and gotten caught
I can't think of one good,  valid reason why Robert himself wouldn't know how much has been spent. 


The 31.5 million will not be deducted.

The foundation statutes state that financial reports will be provided within two months of the end of the fiscal year (in their case December 31).

My team has asked me to share the image below with you. It is still in development but should provide the transparency you are looking for when released.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417467913168224256/539479418486390795/unknown.png

Dear community,

I commented on Discord that we're working on an integrated explorer on the new website where everyone can keep track of the transactions. All transactions so far have been explained and made public on Bitcointalk.
For now I'd like to refer to the screenshot E01 shared which shows the expenses we had until now.

On a sidenote I do realise that I'm now responding an account that has questionable motivations of bringing the project in a bad light. Nonetheless I want to stipulate to each and everyone who reads this that all identities of the board members are publically known (unless most individuals in the crypto space or even in this thread). Also we spend our time and energy free of payment in making the project a success.

So to recap, please be a bit more patient until the foundation page on the website is updated so you can proactively find the answers to your questions/accusations.

Other then that I want to use this opportunity to thank E01 for giving the community and the project team the possibility to manage and use part of the premine. It testifies of great faith in people you have never met before and were, up until 2017, complete strangers.

End of message and on behalf of the foundation board,

Robert Bakker
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsebastianbakker/




Robert,  I have always held you in high regards, however your condescending attitude towards anyone who dares to ask a question is exactly why I chose to post my questions anonymously in here instead of in Discord, where I'll be ostracized for daring to question anything. I'm in there daily,  and see how everyone's treated if they're not cheerleading.  I am indeed grateful for all the volunteers,  however being a volunteer doesn't mean you're above reproach or not accountable. 
I ask these questions out of concern for the project. It's called diligence,  not FUD.
You yourself claimed in the past in Discord that meeting minutes and accounting would be available once the website  was live.  It's now live,  and still nothing is available.  As you've intimated,  almost all answers are available if one looks hard enough... except for anything related to the Foundation.  It would take 5 minutes to post minutes in Discord.  30 seconds to post big expenses. Since the Foundation was formed in October,  I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect some kind of progress report, minutes,  or accounting,  even if the volunteers are all part time. 
 


 

I think I spend 30% of my time on people who have questions. Some are critical some are not critical and I always answer them. Sometimes I have the answer, sometimes not.  I believe critical quesitons posed with a constructive attitude are necessary for a project team to stay sharp. Therefore I will always respond to them Smiley

If you scroll back everyone can see that whenever I take the time to respond to your or Lightinout's comments I respond with facts and answers, yet.. I get no feedback on my responses but another can of worms if being opened until facts and answers close these, and so on.
These questions, conclusions and even accusations have a repetitive and negative character and in my opinion don't add value to the project (opinions are there to be debated). As such I consider you and Lightinout as exceptions to the rule outlined in my first alinea and therefore I spend somewhat less time to the two of you.

On topic, the foundation expenses are visible and shared here on Bitcointalk until they will be shown on the foundations page on our brand new website.

I wish you the best.



It's been 5 months since I posted any questions,  at which time I thanked you for your answers and professionalism.
That's obviously changed based on the aggressive responses you're giving this time. If answering my questions takes 30% of your time,  it just demonstrates how little time you actually have to commit to the project.
Calling for people on Discord to,  and I quote you "Suffocate fudders with love and respect." in order to bury valid concerns and questions about funds being moved from the wallet and lack of transparency from the Foundation is literally getting the community to pull the wool over their own eyes. 
You've said s couple of times now that the expenses are posted on bitcointalk.  E01's, yes.  Consistently and timely.  The Foundation's, no.  Not until E01 posted the spreadsheet AFTER  I asked why 13% of the funds had already been spent with no accounting.  The very question that got any kind of accounting from the Foundation posted on bitcointalk you dismiss as FUD. (You have an inaccuracy Dec 6 by the way... There's an additional 5.4 million that was sent out that's unaccounted for). You yourself denied on Discord yesterday that over 14m has already been spent,  which means YOU didn't even know until I asked. 
You are literally making false accusations and talking in circles in the hopes of diverting the community's attention away from the real issues,  concerns,  and questions.
Answering questions in a direct,  factual manner as E01 does in far more professional,  and will result in far less replies from concerned community members trying to defend themselves against your false accusations of just trying to create FUD.

About the 5.4 million u say is unaccountable for, please do read this article --> https://medium.com/@electrictrippy/electra-foundation-funds-coin-control-e05bb2534268 it will give you a basic understanding of blockchain and how transactions are handled. The article is written based on the foundations wallet actually.

E01 is indeed very timely with posting on bitcointalk. The fact that we are building the page on on the website is that bitcointalk can be a mess. This fact is stated as you say 13% is spend without accounting. It is me that is posting when big transactions are made. please search back message here with my name: Altfeeder. FYI i'm Bob van Egeraat, the chairman. This i say to make it more clear to you why i post these message. So the funds are not unaccounted for when you search. But point is made, we are switching to the website with our transaction oversight, so this cannot occur any more.

Also, the foundation board, as per our statutes, should meet and vote once per quarter (this is quite normal for a foundation). As the landscape of crypto is very dynamic, we already noticed we sometimes have to have a non sheduled meeting. And make rather quick decisions because of this. It can be a payment that has to be voted upon, contracts that need to be discussed/signed. Meetings with exchanges or other projects for further developments or as a new partner.

To give you a clear explanation on how our (the board) decisions are mostly driven is that a community member (usually a core team) comes to us in need of something. We cannot wait 1 or 2 or even 3 months with a decision, so we shedule an 'official' voting round so we come to conclusion on a matter and vote. It is not that this happens daily as you also will understand, most of our time goes to talking/discussing with other projects and some exchanges for cooperation. The core team is the the team that (mostly, can also be a community member) comes with ideas, leads etc. and the board is there to vote yes or no. 

furthermore, explaining (in detail) all expenses to our community does not make full sense, a little bit of trust on a transaction like the aircoins one (the last one) can be expected from the community towards us imo. All transactions are open to see and by the end of the week all transactions will be live on the website with a short explanation. Also be sure that the dutch tax office is not to play with on that matter, as foundation we have 100% tax exemption, be sure we will have to account for every transaction Do remind yourself of the fact that Raymond, Robert and I are members of a foundation and will be held accountable by Dutch law if we make malicious or not accounted for transactions. Believe me when I say I worry more about getting all transactions, be it FIAT or crypto, in 100% order, then you concern about a 5.4 million transaction (that is actually accounted for as you will probably understand now).

If you have question, contact me on discord.

Regards Bob
Thank you for your clear and concise answer, particularly that part which addressed how it's decided what gets paid and how.  Completely understandable that every payment out wouldn't and shouldn't be in full detail.  General terminology would probably work the best ie...Advertising,  Exchange fees,  dues and subscriptions,  etc.  Just like it would be in an accounting program. 
Honestly,  malicious transactions weren't as much my worry as losing track was. As an "outsider", I have no idea what's going on,  who's doing what,  what's spent,  etc.  It really raised a red flag for me when Robert himself didn't appear to know.  My worry went from "they're spending a lot,  quickly,  and no idea what for" to "is anyone even keeping track or monitoring?"
I'm happy to hear that it will all be available on the website this week.
Thank you for all your time and effort. 

No problem, I'm here to answer those questions. As you read back my message here on bitcointalk, you'll see the biggest protion of the 13% was due to reimbursment of a wallet bug that was in the desktop wallet. There will be one more later on, about 300K. We know it as quit an extensive amount that is being repayed to community members who lost there funds. But the board, core team and user support, that investigated the bug, founded that we should reimburse these people.

Indeed 'short' clear explanations will be used. If there are really large numbers transfered in the future, ofcourse we will give a more clear explanation about it.


Just an FYI that Dec 6 payouts still don't reconcile with spreadsheet,  but I'm sure you'll get that fixed.  The spreadsheet doesn't reflect the payouts to Coindeal winners 1-8. (Found that on one of your previous posts about the Coindeal payout).
Thank you again for your help. 
[/quote]

hmm.. I have been looking at my own spreadsheet from the wallet, the online spreadsheet that is on my test server, the image of the spreadsheet that was posted here, the message i made here regarding the payout and the blockexplorer.

I have a clue on where you think it doesn't hold up, be i'm not sure. I do think you mean when you look at the explorer and see the transactions, you also see a strange '4.49M ECa'transaction right? (you can check the transaction here https://www.electraexplorer.com/tx/677727393743cb1418ed03e480503cd8934b5ae9fc0c814ee882128868e51791 ) If this is what you mean, i do get that this can be strange. If this is the problem, i would like to refer you again to the article i've posted some comments above this one (it's a medium article). In this article, 2 community members and me try to explain this phenomenon. If you start following that adress, you should see it's send back to the foundation wallet later on.

If you notice something else that is not correct, please do notify me. A mistake is easily made when entering numbers, i try to be as carefull as i can, but if you see one, please do point it out.

Regards.
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January 30, 2019, 07:54:25 PM
 #2962

Dear Stakeholders,

31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.
Will this amount be deducted from the 200m that's scheduled to be transferred to the Foundation this week?
On the Foundation...I was under the impression they would be providing some kind of accounting for the funds.  To date,  they've already spent about 14,000,000, or approx 13% of their initial funds (100m from you,  5m from donation wallet),  with no accounting for it, at least not publicly as they'd claimed. 
They also said they'd be posting minutes from their meetings,  which they've also failed to do. 
This lack of transparency or accountibility is really concerning. They've been set up for over 3 months now, so the excuse that it's "new" I don't think is valid anymore.
I think you should reconsider sending any additional funds to the Foundation until such time as they can account for their spending and supply meeting minutes. 
By all accounts,  you are more transparent than the Foundation,  and the premine would be better off in your hands. 
I just saw on Discord that Robert claims the Foundation hasn't spent 14 million... Which means he doesn't know what's going on,  or its something he doesn't want known.  This brings up another question of who exactly has access to the funds and who authorizes or keeps track? If Robert himself doesn't have a clue,  the options are
A) they have no real foundation control and it's all a front for someone else actually controlling the funds,
B) they're unprofessional, disorganized, & haven't been keeping track,  or
C) they've transferred funds secretly and gotten caught
I can't think of one good,  valid reason why Robert himself wouldn't know how much has been spent. 


The 31.5 million will not be deducted.

The foundation statutes state that financial reports will be provided within two months of the end of the fiscal year (in their case December 31).

My team has asked me to share the image below with you. It is still in development but should provide the transparency you are looking for when released.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417467913168224256/539479418486390795/unknown.png

Dear community,

I commented on Discord that we're working on an integrated explorer on the new website where everyone can keep track of the transactions. All transactions so far have been explained and made public on Bitcointalk.
For now I'd like to refer to the screenshot E01 shared which shows the expenses we had until now.

On a sidenote I do realise that I'm now responding an account that has questionable motivations of bringing the project in a bad light. Nonetheless I want to stipulate to each and everyone who reads this that all identities of the board members are publically known (unless most individuals in the crypto space or even in this thread). Also we spend our time and energy free of payment in making the project a success.

So to recap, please be a bit more patient until the foundation page on the website is updated so you can proactively find the answers to your questions/accusations.

Other then that I want to use this opportunity to thank E01 for giving the community and the project team the possibility to manage and use part of the premine. It testifies of great faith in people you have never met before and were, up until 2017, complete strangers.

End of message and on behalf of the foundation board,

Robert Bakker
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsebastianbakker/




Robert,  I have always held you in high regards, however your condescending attitude towards anyone who dares to ask a question is exactly why I chose to post my questions anonymously in here instead of in Discord, where I'll be ostracized for daring to question anything. I'm in there daily,  and see how everyone's treated if they're not cheerleading.  I am indeed grateful for all the volunteers,  however being a volunteer doesn't mean you're above reproach or not accountable. 
I ask these questions out of concern for the project. It's called diligence,  not FUD.
You yourself claimed in the past in Discord that meeting minutes and accounting would be available once the website  was live.  It's now live,  and still nothing is available.  As you've intimated,  almost all answers are available if one looks hard enough... except for anything related to the Foundation.  It would take 5 minutes to post minutes in Discord.  30 seconds to post big expenses. Since the Foundation was formed in October,  I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect some kind of progress report, minutes,  or accounting,  even if the volunteers are all part time. 
 


 

I think I spend 30% of my time on people who have questions. Some are critical some are not critical and I always answer them. Sometimes I have the answer, sometimes not.  I believe critical quesitons posed with a constructive attitude are necessary for a project team to stay sharp. Therefore I will always respond to them Smiley

If you scroll back everyone can see that whenever I take the time to respond to your or Lightinout's comments I respond with facts and answers, yet.. I get no feedback on my responses but another can of worms if being opened until facts and answers close these, and so on.
These questions, conclusions and even accusations have a repetitive and negative character and in my opinion don't add value to the project (opinions are there to be debated). As such I consider you and Lightinout as exceptions to the rule outlined in my first alinea and therefore I spend somewhat less time to the two of you.

On topic, the foundation expenses are visible and shared here on Bitcointalk until they will be shown on the foundations page on our brand new website.

I wish you the best.



It's been 5 months since I posted any questions,  at which time I thanked you for your answers and professionalism.
That's obviously changed based on the aggressive responses you're giving this time. If answering my questions takes 30% of your time,  it just demonstrates how little time you actually have to commit to the project.
Calling for people on Discord to,  and I quote you "Suffocate fudders with love and respect." in order to bury valid concerns and questions about funds being moved from the wallet and lack of transparency from the Foundation is literally getting the community to pull the wool over their own eyes. 
You've said s couple of times now that the expenses are posted on bitcointalk.  E01's, yes.  Consistently and timely.  The Foundation's, no.  Not until E01 posted the spreadsheet AFTER  I asked why 13% of the funds had already been spent with no accounting.  The very question that got any kind of accounting from the Foundation posted on bitcointalk you dismiss as FUD. (You have an inaccuracy Dec 6 by the way... There's an additional 5.4 million that was sent out that's unaccounted for). You yourself denied on Discord yesterday that over 14m has already been spent,  which means YOU didn't even know until I asked. 
You are literally making false accusations and talking in circles in the hopes of diverting the community's attention away from the real issues,  concerns,  and questions.
Answering questions in a direct,  factual manner as E01 does in far more professional,  and will result in far less replies from concerned community members trying to defend themselves against your false accusations of just trying to create FUD.

About the 5.4 million u say is unaccountable for, please do read this article --> https://medium.com/@electrictrippy/electra-foundation-funds-coin-control-e05bb2534268 it will give you a basic understanding of blockchain and how transactions are handled. The article is written based on the foundations wallet actually.

E01 is indeed very timely with posting on bitcointalk. The fact that we are building the page on on the website is that bitcointalk can be a mess. This fact is stated as you say 13% is spend without accounting. It is me that is posting when big transactions are made. please search back message here with my name: Altfeeder. FYI i'm Bob van Egeraat, the chairman. This i say to make it more clear to you why i post these message. So the funds are not unaccounted for when you search. But point is made, we are switching to the website with our transaction oversight, so this cannot occur any more.

Also, the foundation board, as per our statutes, should meet and vote once per quarter (this is quite normal for a foundation). As the landscape of crypto is very dynamic, we already noticed we sometimes have to have a non sheduled meeting. And make rather quick decisions because of this. It can be a payment that has to be voted upon, contracts that need to be discussed/signed. Meetings with exchanges or other projects for further developments or as a new partner.

To give you a clear explanation on how our (the board) decisions are mostly driven is that a community member (usually a core team) comes to us in need of something. We cannot wait 1 or 2 or even 3 months with a decision, so we shedule an 'official' voting round so we come to conclusion on a matter and vote. It is not that this happens daily as you also will understand, most of our time goes to talking/discussing with other projects and some exchanges for cooperation. The core team is the the team that (mostly, can also be a community member) comes with ideas, leads etc. and the board is there to vote yes or no. 

furthermore, explaining (in detail) all expenses to our community does not make full sense, a little bit of trust on a transaction like the aircoins one (the last one) can be expected from the community towards us imo. All transactions are open to see and by the end of the week all transactions will be live on the website with a short explanation. Also be sure that the dutch tax office is not to play with on that matter, as foundation we have 100% tax exemption, be sure we will have to account for every transaction Do remind yourself of the fact that Raymond, Robert and I are members of a foundation and will be held accountable by Dutch law if we make malicious or not accounted for transactions. Believe me when I say I worry more about getting all transactions, be it FIAT or crypto, in 100% order, then you concern about a 5.4 million transaction (that is actually accounted for as you will probably understand now).

If you have question, contact me on discord.

Regards Bob
Thank you for your clear and concise answer, particularly that part which addressed how it's decided what gets paid and how.  Completely understandable that every payment out wouldn't and shouldn't be in full detail.  General terminology would probably work the best ie...Advertising,  Exchange fees,  dues and subscriptions,  etc.  Just like it would be in an accounting program. 
Honestly,  malicious transactions weren't as much my worry as losing track was. As an "outsider", I have no idea what's going on,  who's doing what,  what's spent,  etc.  It really raised a red flag for me when Robert himself didn't appear to know.  My worry went from "they're spending a lot,  quickly,  and no idea what for" to "is anyone even keeping track or monitoring?"
I'm happy to hear that it will all be available on the website this week.
Thank you for all your time and effort. 

No problem, I'm here to answer those questions. As you read back my message here on bitcointalk, you'll see the biggest protion of the 13% was due to reimbursment of a wallet bug that was in the desktop wallet. There will be one more later on, about 300K. We know it as quit an extensive amount that is being repayed to community members who lost there funds. But the board, core team and user support, that investigated the bug, founded that we should reimburse these people.

Indeed 'short' clear explanations will be used. If there are really large numbers transfered in the future, ofcourse we will give a more clear explanation about it.


Just an FYI that Dec 6 payouts still don't reconcile with spreadsheet,  but I'm sure you'll get that fixed.  The spreadsheet doesn't reflect the payouts to Coindeal winners 1-8. (Found that on one of your previous posts about the Coindeal payout).
Thank you again for your help. 

hmm.. I have been looking at my own spreadsheet from the wallet, the online spreadsheet that is on my test server, the image of the spreadsheet that was posted here, the message i made here regarding the payout and the blockexplorer.

I have a clue on where you think it doesn't hold up, be i'm not sure. I do think you mean when you look at the explorer and see the transactions, you also see a strange '4.49M ECa'transaction right? (you can check the transaction here https://www.electraexplorer.com/tx/677727393743cb1418ed03e480503cd8934b5ae9fc0c814ee882128868e51791 ) If this is what you mean, i do get that this can be strange. If this is the problem, i would like to refer you again to the article i've posted some comments above this one (it's a medium article). In this article, 2 community members and me try to explain this phenomenon. If you start following that adress, you should see it's send back to the foundation wallet later on.

If you notice something else that is not correct, please do notify me. A mistake is easily made when entering numbers, i try to be as carefull as i can, but if you see one, please do point it out.

Regards.
[/quote]
The image shared in here only shows 2 transactions on the 6th for a total of 5000 ECA. 3000 to 9th place,  2000 to 10th place.  Whatever was transferred to winners 1 thru 8 isn't reflected on the spreadsheet E01 shared.  It could either be a spreadsheet error,  or possibly a screenshot that didn't capture the full spreadsheet image?
Try comparing the actual image that was shared in here to your spreadsheet to see if it is just an image problem. 
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January 30, 2019, 09:47:10 PM
 #2963

Dear Stakeholders,

31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.
Will this amount be deducted from the 200m that's scheduled to be transferred to the Foundation this week?
On the Foundation...I was under the impression they would be providing some kind of accounting for the funds.  To date,  they've already spent about 14,000,000, or approx 13% of their initial funds (100m from you,  5m from donation wallet),  with no accounting for it, at least not publicly as they'd claimed. 
They also said they'd be posting minutes from their meetings,  which they've also failed to do. 
This lack of transparency or accountibility is really concerning. They've been set up for over 3 months now, so the excuse that it's "new" I don't think is valid anymore.
I think you should reconsider sending any additional funds to the Foundation until such time as they can account for their spending and supply meeting minutes. 
By all accounts,  you are more transparent than the Foundation,  and the premine would be better off in your hands. 
I just saw on Discord that Robert claims the Foundation hasn't spent 14 million... Which means he doesn't know what's going on,  or its something he doesn't want known.  This brings up another question of who exactly has access to the funds and who authorizes or keeps track? If Robert himself doesn't have a clue,  the options are
A) they have no real foundation control and it's all a front for someone else actually controlling the funds,
B) they're unprofessional, disorganized, & haven't been keeping track,  or
C) they've transferred funds secretly and gotten caught
I can't think of one good,  valid reason why Robert himself wouldn't know how much has been spent. 


The 31.5 million will not be deducted.

The foundation statutes state that financial reports will be provided within two months of the end of the fiscal year (in their case December 31).

My team has asked me to share the image below with you. It is still in development but should provide the transparency you are looking for when released.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417467913168224256/539479418486390795/unknown.png

Dear community,

I commented on Discord that we're working on an integrated explorer on the new website where everyone can keep track of the transactions. All transactions so far have been explained and made public on Bitcointalk.
For now I'd like to refer to the screenshot E01 shared which shows the expenses we had until now.

On a sidenote I do realise that I'm now responding an account that has questionable motivations of bringing the project in a bad light. Nonetheless I want to stipulate to each and everyone who reads this that all identities of the board members are publically known (unless most individuals in the crypto space or even in this thread). Also we spend our time and energy free of payment in making the project a success.

So to recap, please be a bit more patient until the foundation page on the website is updated so you can proactively find the answers to your questions/accusations.

Other then that I want to use this opportunity to thank E01 for giving the community and the project team the possibility to manage and use part of the premine. It testifies of great faith in people you have never met before and were, up until 2017, complete strangers.

End of message and on behalf of the foundation board,

Robert Bakker
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsebastianbakker/




Robert,  I have always held you in high regards, however your condescending attitude towards anyone who dares to ask a question is exactly why I chose to post my questions anonymously in here instead of in Discord, where I'll be ostracized for daring to question anything. I'm in there daily,  and see how everyone's treated if they're not cheerleading.  I am indeed grateful for all the volunteers,  however being a volunteer doesn't mean you're above reproach or not accountable. 
I ask these questions out of concern for the project. It's called diligence,  not FUD.
You yourself claimed in the past in Discord that meeting minutes and accounting would be available once the website  was live.  It's now live,  and still nothing is available.  As you've intimated,  almost all answers are available if one looks hard enough... except for anything related to the Foundation.  It would take 5 minutes to post minutes in Discord.  30 seconds to post big expenses. Since the Foundation was formed in October,  I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect some kind of progress report, minutes,  or accounting,  even if the volunteers are all part time. 
 


 

I think I spend 30% of my time on people who have questions. Some are critical some are not critical and I always answer them. Sometimes I have the answer, sometimes not.  I believe critical quesitons posed with a constructive attitude are necessary for a project team to stay sharp. Therefore I will always respond to them Smiley

If you scroll back everyone can see that whenever I take the time to respond to your or Lightinout's comments I respond with facts and answers, yet.. I get no feedback on my responses but another can of worms if being opened until facts and answers close these, and so on.
These questions, conclusions and even accusations have a repetitive and negative character and in my opinion don't add value to the project (opinions are there to be debated). As such I consider you and Lightinout as exceptions to the rule outlined in my first alinea and therefore I spend somewhat less time to the two of you.

On topic, the foundation expenses are visible and shared here on Bitcointalk until they will be shown on the foundations page on our brand new website.

I wish you the best.



It's been 5 months since I posted any questions,  at which time I thanked you for your answers and professionalism.
That's obviously changed based on the aggressive responses you're giving this time. If answering my questions takes 30% of your time,  it just demonstrates how little time you actually have to commit to the project.
Calling for people on Discord to,  and I quote you "Suffocate fudders with love and respect." in order to bury valid concerns and questions about funds being moved from the wallet and lack of transparency from the Foundation is literally getting the community to pull the wool over their own eyes. 
You've said s couple of times now that the expenses are posted on bitcointalk.  E01's, yes.  Consistently and timely.  The Foundation's, no.  Not until E01 posted the spreadsheet AFTER  I asked why 13% of the funds had already been spent with no accounting.  The very question that got any kind of accounting from the Foundation posted on bitcointalk you dismiss as FUD. (You have an inaccuracy Dec 6 by the way... There's an additional 5.4 million that was sent out that's unaccounted for). You yourself denied on Discord yesterday that over 14m has already been spent,  which means YOU didn't even know until I asked. 
You are literally making false accusations and talking in circles in the hopes of diverting the community's attention away from the real issues,  concerns,  and questions.
Answering questions in a direct,  factual manner as E01 does in far more professional,  and will result in far less replies from concerned community members trying to defend themselves against your false accusations of just trying to create FUD.

About the 5.4 million u say is unaccountable for, please do read this article --> https://medium.com/@electrictrippy/electra-foundation-funds-coin-control-e05bb2534268 it will give you a basic understanding of blockchain and how transactions are handled. The article is written based on the foundations wallet actually.

E01 is indeed very timely with posting on bitcointalk. The fact that we are building the page on on the website is that bitcointalk can be a mess. This fact is stated as you say 13% is spend without accounting. It is me that is posting when big transactions are made. please search back message here with my name: Altfeeder. FYI i'm Bob van Egeraat, the chairman. This i say to make it more clear to you why i post these message. So the funds are not unaccounted for when you search. But point is made, we are switching to the website with our transaction oversight, so this cannot occur any more.

Also, the foundation board, as per our statutes, should meet and vote once per quarter (this is quite normal for a foundation). As the landscape of crypto is very dynamic, we already noticed we sometimes have to have a non sheduled meeting. And make rather quick decisions because of this. It can be a payment that has to be voted upon, contracts that need to be discussed/signed. Meetings with exchanges or other projects for further developments or as a new partner.

To give you a clear explanation on how our (the board) decisions are mostly driven is that a community member (usually a core team) comes to us in need of something. We cannot wait 1 or 2 or even 3 months with a decision, so we shedule an 'official' voting round so we come to conclusion on a matter and vote. It is not that this happens daily as you also will understand, most of our time goes to talking/discussing with other projects and some exchanges for cooperation. The core team is the the team that (mostly, can also be a community member) comes with ideas, leads etc. and the board is there to vote yes or no. 

furthermore, explaining (in detail) all expenses to our community does not make full sense, a little bit of trust on a transaction like the aircoins one (the last one) can be expected from the community towards us imo. All transactions are open to see and by the end of the week all transactions will be live on the website with a short explanation. Also be sure that the dutch tax office is not to play with on that matter, as foundation we have 100% tax exemption, be sure we will have to account for every transaction Do remind yourself of the fact that Raymond, Robert and I are members of a foundation and will be held accountable by Dutch law if we make malicious or not accounted for transactions. Believe me when I say I worry more about getting all transactions, be it FIAT or crypto, in 100% order, then you concern about a 5.4 million transaction (that is actually accounted for as you will probably understand now).

If you have question, contact me on discord.

Regards Bob
Thank you for your clear and concise answer, particularly that part which addressed how it's decided what gets paid and how.  Completely understandable that every payment out wouldn't and shouldn't be in full detail.  General terminology would probably work the best ie...Advertising,  Exchange fees,  dues and subscriptions,  etc.  Just like it would be in an accounting program. 
Honestly,  malicious transactions weren't as much my worry as losing track was. As an "outsider", I have no idea what's going on,  who's doing what,  what's spent,  etc.  It really raised a red flag for me when Robert himself didn't appear to know.  My worry went from "they're spending a lot,  quickly,  and no idea what for" to "is anyone even keeping track or monitoring?"
I'm happy to hear that it will all be available on the website this week.
Thank you for all your time and effort. 

No problem, I'm here to answer those questions. As you read back my message here on bitcointalk, you'll see the biggest protion of the 13% was due to reimbursment of a wallet bug that was in the desktop wallet. There will be one more later on, about 300K. We know it as quit an extensive amount that is being repayed to community members who lost there funds. But the board, core team and user support, that investigated the bug, founded that we should reimburse these people.

Indeed 'short' clear explanations will be used. If there are really large numbers transfered in the future, ofcourse we will give a more clear explanation about it.


Just an FYI that Dec 6 payouts still don't reconcile with spreadsheet,  but I'm sure you'll get that fixed.  The spreadsheet doesn't reflect the payouts to Coindeal winners 1-8. (Found that on one of your previous posts about the Coindeal payout).
Thank you again for your help. 

hmm.. I have been looking at my own spreadsheet from the wallet, the online spreadsheet that is on my test server, the image of the spreadsheet that was posted here, the message i made here regarding the payout and the blockexplorer.

I have a clue on where you think it doesn't hold up, be i'm not sure. I do think you mean when you look at the explorer and see the transactions, you also see a strange '4.49M ECa'transaction right? (you can check the transaction here https://www.electraexplorer.com/tx/677727393743cb1418ed03e480503cd8934b5ae9fc0c814ee882128868e51791 ) If this is what you mean, i do get that this can be strange. If this is the problem, i would like to refer you again to the article i've posted some comments above this one (it's a medium article). In this article, 2 community members and me try to explain this phenomenon. If you start following that adress, you should see it's send back to the foundation wallet later on.

If you notice something else that is not correct, please do notify me. A mistake is easily made when entering numbers, i try to be as carefull as i can, but if you see one, please do point it out.

Regards.
The image shared in here only shows 2 transactions on the 6th for a total of 5000 ECA. 3000 to 9th place,  2000 to 10th place.  Whatever was transferred to winners 1 thru 8 isn't reflected on the spreadsheet E01 shared.  It could either be a spreadsheet error,  or possibly a screenshot that didn't capture the full spreadsheet image?
Try comparing the actual image that was shared in here to your spreadsheet to see if it is just an image problem. 
[/quote]

Aaaah like that, yes it is a screenshot, i can confirm.
Apfelgluck
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January 31, 2019, 07:36:06 AM
 #2964

https://twitter.com/ECA_Foundation/status/1090718452954918912
LightInOut
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February 06, 2019, 02:31:44 AM
 #2965

3,34% premine but forget to mention the "Super Rewards Bonanza"


can an Electra foundation member or dev give us the exact number of ECA that was mined in that bonanza period?


Also, how soon was this "Bonanza" period after creation of the blockchain?


thanks  Roll Eyes
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February 06, 2019, 03:08:36 AM
 #2966

3,34% premine but forget to mention the "Super Rewards Bonanza"


can an Electra foundation member or dev give us the exact number of ECA that was mined in that bonanza period?


Also, how soon was this "Bonanza" period after creation of the blockchain?


thanks  Roll Eyes

Already they mentioned in the twitter how much coins they got through this stage of premise. So we will get update from team regarding the distribution and the process in the coming days.

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February 06, 2019, 06:39:22 AM
 #2967

https://twitter.com/ElectracoinECA/status/1092877241078431746
LightInOut
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February 06, 2019, 03:06:32 PM
 #2968

3,34% premine but forget to mention the "Super Rewards Bonanza"


can an Electra foundation member or dev give us the exact number of ECA that was mined in that bonanza period?


Also, how soon was this "Bonanza" period after creation of the blockchain?


thanks  Roll Eyes

Already they mentioned in the twitter how much coins they got through this stage of premise. So we will get update from team regarding the distribution and the process in the coming days.



Yea, premine was 3.34% but I want to know when the bonanza period started and how much ECA was mined during that 24 hours
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February 06, 2019, 03:31:01 PM
 #2969

3,34% premine but forget to mention the "Super Rewards Bonanza"


can an Electra foundation member or dev give us the exact number of ECA that was mined in that bonanza period?


Also, how soon was this "Bonanza" period after creation of the blockchain?


thanks  Roll Eyes

Already they mentioned in the twitter how much coins they got through this stage of premise. So we will get update from team regarding the distribution and the process in the coming days.



Yea, premine was 3.34% but I want to know when the bonanza period started and how much ECA was mined during that 24 hours

you have history (number and date) looking at the first posts of the profile electra01  Wink
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February 06, 2019, 04:08:56 PM
 #2970

3,34% premine but forget to mention the "Super Rewards Bonanza"


can an Electra foundation member or dev give us the exact number of ECA that was mined in that bonanza period?


Also, how soon was this "Bonanza" period after creation of the blockchain?


thanks  Roll Eyes

Already they mentioned in the twitter how much coins they got through this stage of premise. So we will get update from team regarding the distribution and the process in the coming days.



Yea, premine was 3.34% but I want to know when the bonanza period started and how much ECA was mined during that 24 hours

The bonanza was publicly announced the same day Electra was launched. The bonanza happened about two months after Electra was launched. 18,999,999,936 ECA was mined during the bonanza and it was open to all.
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February 07, 2019, 12:16:33 PM
 #2971

Wallets v2.0 for Windows, Mac and Linux are expected to be released on February 15 at the electraproject.org website.


You can learn how to upgrade your wallet by reading the guide created by Jenova:

https://github.com/Electra-project/electra-core/blob/master/Fork%20Phase%202%20-%20Guide.pdf
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February 07, 2019, 03:56:48 PM
 #2972

3,34% premine but forget to mention the "Super Rewards Bonanza"


can an Electra foundation member or dev give us the exact number of ECA that was mined in that bonanza period?


Also, how soon was this "Bonanza" period after creation of the blockchain?


thanks  Roll Eyes

Already they mentioned in the twitter how much coins they got through this stage of premise. So we will get update from team regarding the distribution and the process in the coming days.



Yea, premine was 3.34% but I want to know when the bonanza period started and how much ECA was mined during that 24 hours

The bonanza was publicly announced the same day Electra was launched. The bonanza happened about two months after Electra was launched. 18,999,999,936 ECA was mined during the bonanza and it was open to all.


So the premine was 3.34% or 1,002,000,000 ECA

then 2 months later 18,999,999,936 was mined

which means roughly 20,001,999,936 ECA was in circulation in 2 months? 66% of the supply?

does this math make sense?
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February 09, 2019, 05:19:34 AM
 #2973

3,34% premine but forget to mention the "Super Rewards Bonanza"


can an Electra foundation member or dev give us the exact number of ECA that was mined in that bonanza period?


Also, how soon was this "Bonanza" period after creation of the blockchain?


thanks  Roll Eyes

Already they mentioned in the twitter how much coins they got through this stage of premise. So we will get update from team regarding the distribution and the process in the coming days.



Yea, premine was 3.34% but I want to know when the bonanza period started and how much ECA was mined during that 24 hours

The bonanza was publicly announced the same day Electra was launched. The bonanza happened about two months after Electra was launched. 18,999,999,936 ECA was mined during the bonanza and it was open to all.


So the premine was 3.34% or 1,002,000,000 ECA

then 2 months later 18,999,999,936 was mined

which means roughly 20,001,999,936 ECA was in circulation in 2 months? 66% of the supply?

does this math make sense?


Yes. & as Electra01 stated, it was open to any and everyone.
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February 09, 2019, 03:28:21 PM
 #2974

3,34% premine but forget to mention the "Super Rewards Bonanza"


can an Electra foundation member or dev give us the exact number of ECA that was mined in that bonanza period?


Also, how soon was this "Bonanza" period after creation of the blockchain?


thanks  Roll Eyes

Already they mentioned in the twitter how much coins they got through this stage of premise. So we will get update from team regarding the distribution and the process in the coming days.



Yea, premine was 3.34% but I want to know when the bonanza period started and how much ECA was mined during that 24 hours

The bonanza was publicly announced the same day Electra was launched. The bonanza happened about two months after Electra was launched. 18,999,999,936 ECA was mined during the bonanza and it was open to all.


People who took advantage of this very lucky! Bonanza was during pow stage
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February 12, 2019, 07:56:49 PM
Last edit: February 13, 2019, 11:49:13 AM by germsite
 #2975

3,34% premine but forget to mention the "Super Rewards Bonanza"


can an Electra foundation member or dev give us the exact number of ECA that was mined in that bonanza period?


Also, how soon was this "Bonanza" period after creation of the blockchain?


thanks  Roll Eyes

Already they mentioned in the twitter how much coins they got through this stage of premise. So we will get update from team regarding the distribution and the process in the coming days.

Did that work like a transparent lottery or could some people have taken advantage of it if they knew how to do it?



Yea, premine was 3.34% but I want to know when the bonanza period started and how much ECA was mined during that 24 hours

The bonanza was publicly announced the same day Electra was launched. The bonanza happened about two months after Electra was launched. 18,999,999,936 ECA was mined during the bonanza and it was open to all.


People who took advantage of this very lucky! Bonanza was during pow stage

Was Bonanza like a transparent lottery or were there people who could theoretically take advantage of it?
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February 13, 2019, 02:48:48 PM
 #2976


Was Bonanza like a transparent lottery or were there people who could theoretically take advantage of it?


It was clearly mentioned by Electra01 well before the start of it and anyone who wants to participate was able to join it. You can read the initial messages when this thread started. So everything was transparent and those who were active for this coin were able to participate and take advantage of it.

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February 15, 2019, 02:29:54 PM
 #2977

How can we get ECA super Rewards Bonanza? Smiley
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February 16, 2019, 05:19:05 AM
 #2978

How can we get ECA super Rewards Bonanza? Smiley

It's already over it was in mid-2017 when the project was started. Now ECA is proof of stake coin and not proof of work coin.
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February 16, 2019, 07:51:58 PM
 #2979

  BE CARREFULL !!!!!!!!!! electra team burns some electracoins for tu up the value and become rich . ans you are scammed !! BE CARREFULL  !!!!!! SELL OFF this shitcoin !!!
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February 16, 2019, 09:31:19 PM
 #2980

  BE CARREFULL !!!!!!!!!! electra team burns some electracoins for tu up the value and become rich . ans you are scammed !! BE CARREFULL  !!!!!! SELL OFF this shitcoin !!!

BS! They don't do anything of the sort. Your comment makes no sense.
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