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Author Topic: WHY BITCOIN IS JUST A BUBBLE, HUGE FUNDAMENTAL FLAW  (Read 3987 times)
nkspace (OP)
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April 25, 2013, 10:44:25 AM
 #1

PLEASE READ POST BY MOBO DICK



According to http://blockchain.info/charts/blocks-size we're aproaching 6 gigabytes for the blockchain.
According to http://torrentfreak.com/bittorrent-and-netflix-dominate-americas-internet-traffic-111027/ Netflix is 34% of total...

I can't find numbers on exact transfer rate of the internet. But lets say ~1 exabyte per day (someone got a source to the real data?) so we're looking at netflix transfering 333,000 terabytes per day. This means that even if you had 55,500,000 bitcoiners downloading the entire blockchain every single day... you'd still be consuming less than netflix does on a daily basis.

For real numbers, number of tx * number of nodes * time = transfer rate of bitcoin network  ... feel free to include an estimation of non-current blocks being transfered to out of sync clients.


The difficult seems to be that when bitcoin grows the potential for transactions also grows. The more people there are in the bitcoin economy the more there is to transact in the bitcoin economy.
It's related to the problems you get with interprocess communication in networked processing.
I can see that the number of transactions will rise at some exponential number compared to a linera rise in number of nodes.
So the ammounts of transactions wil grow faster than the ammounts of nodes.
If bitcoin becomes anything like important in society then you will pay for your groceries with it, you'll pay for gas with it, you'll pay for the ticket to dysneyland with it. So there will be a lot more transactions per user to be done.
And all these transactions also add up to the block chain, so everyone will need to get the blockchain which includes all the transactions of everyone else in the world.
I can easliy predict that the 6G of chain we have now will be meaningless once bitcoin represents some substantial part of the economy.
The 6Gig will be a daily download for every user at best. It won't take long before you will need to get a gig per minute to be up to date.
We all think the blockchain has been growing pretty fast lately, right?
Well, right now the size is related to about 55000 transactions daily. You need to get up to date with 55000 transactions per day.
Now imagine 1/10th of the world uses bitcoin to pay for their usual things.
We get 1/10th of 7x10^9 = 7x10^8 people participating.
Let's take an average of 5 transactions per user per day. You need to buy gas, you get an icecream, you pay the rent, etc.
(i'm just using some ballpark figures here to see where we get)
This gives us 1.4x10^9 transactions daily. 1.400.000.000 transactions per day.
That means the blockchain will grow about 25000 times faster than it does now.

Lets make an estimate of how much the blockchain grows right now.

In the last 1.2 months the blockchain grew by about a gigabyte.
On average that is about 0.0269 gigabyte per day. This gives us about 27.5 MB per day.
Ok, so now let's multiply this by our projected change in magnitude.
We get 27.5 x 25000 = 672 gigabyte per day !!

So in the situation where 1/10 of the world population does 5 bitcoin transactions per day on average everyone will need to download 672 gigabytes of new blockchain per day to keep up. If you didn't update for 2 days you'll need to download over 1TB . If you didn't touch your wallet for a month you'll be pumping 20TB to get up to date. And all this to be able to use bitcoin as a currency.
After only a year of hoarding blockchain everyone would have about 240TB of blockchain stored locally.

I think this will be problematic from an energy point of view even before the practical problems of storage become too devastating.


THANK YOU MOBO DICK
BULLS BITCOIN IS HORRIBLY  FLAWED, AND THIS ISN'T EVEN INCULDING CONFIRMATIONS, MAINPULATION, NOTHING BACKING THE CURRENCY, PIPE DREAM ON
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April 25, 2013, 10:45:00 AM
 #2

ALERT : BUTT HURT BEAR THAT WANTS TO BUY BACK IN! LAWL!!


 Grin Grin Grin

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just1nmc
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April 25, 2013, 10:47:14 AM
 #3

I can't believe someone spent the time to write all that... Especially on a topic that has been discussed so much already.
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April 25, 2013, 10:47:17 AM
 #4



In other news, Google Trends is showing a bearish reversal with a chance of rain. Better sell!

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April 25, 2013, 10:49:20 AM
 #5

I just know that when a thread title IS IN ALL CAPS, it's going to be a good 'un.

Quote
"1/10 of the world population does 5 bitcoin transactions per day"

Woah I thought you were a bear. If you think we'll ever reach that point then you my friend are a perma-bull.

Besides, if we ever reach that point, then:

a) Moore's Law will have taken care of the speedbumps.

b) I will be too rich to give a fuck.

I tweet crypto nonsense: https://twitter.com/DunningKruger_
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April 25, 2013, 10:50:47 AM
 #6

Yes I down load the enitre hotmail database every time I want to read my latestst email....NOT

ELECTRUM

/THREAD




PLEASE READ POST BY MOBO DICK



According to http://blockchain.info/charts/blocks-size we're aproaching 6 gigabytes for the blockchain.
According to http://torrentfreak.com/bittorrent-and-netflix-dominate-americas-internet-traffic-111027/ Netflix is 34% of total...

I can't find numbers on exact transfer rate of the internet. But lets say ~1 exabyte per day (someone got a source to the real data?) so we're looking at netflix transfering 333,000 terabytes per day. This means that even if you had 55,500,000 bitcoiners downloading the entire blockchain every single day... you'd still be consuming less than netflix does on a daily basis.

For real numbers, number of tx * number of nodes * time = transfer rate of bitcoin network  ... feel free to include an estimation of non-current blocks being transfered to out of sync clients.


The difficult seems to be that when bitcoin grows the potential for transactions also grows. The more people there are in the bitcoin economy the more there is to transact in the bitcoin economy.
It's related to the problems you get with interprocess communication in networked processing.
I can see that the number of transactions will rise at some exponential number compared to a linera rise in number of nodes.
So the ammounts of transactions wil grow faster than the ammounts of nodes.
If bitcoin becomes anything like important in society then you will pay for your groceries with it, you'll pay for gas with it, you'll pay for the ticket to dysneyland with it. So there will be a lot more transactions per user to be done.
And all these transactions also add up to the block chain, so everyone will need to get the blockchain which includes all the transactions of everyone else in the world.
I can easliy predict that the 6G of chain we have now will be meaningless once bitcoin represents some substantial part of the economy.
The 6Gig will be a daily download for every user at best. It won't take long before you will need to get a gig per minute to be up to date.
We all think the blockchain has been growing pretty fast lately, right?
Well, right now the size is related to about 55000 transactions daily. You need to get up to date with 55000 transactions per day.
Now imagine 1/10th of the world uses bitcoin to pay for their usual things.
We get 1/10th of 7x10^9 = 7x10^8 people participating.
Let's take an average of 5 transactions per user per day. You need to buy gas, you get an icecream, you pay the rent, etc.
(i'm just using some ballpark figures here to see where we get)
This gives us 1.4x10^9 transactions daily. 1.400.000.000 transactions per day.
That means the blockchain will grow about 25000 times faster than it does now.

Lets make an estimate of how much the blockchain grows right now.

In the last 1.2 months the blockchain grew by about a gigabyte.
On average that is about 0.0269 gigabyte per day. This gives us about 27.5 MB per day.
Ok, so now let's multiply this by our projected change in magnitude.
We get 27.5 x 25000 = 672 gigabyte per day !!

So in the situation where 1/10 of the world population does 5 bitcoin transactions per day on average everyone will need to download 672 gigabytes of new blockchain per day to keep up. If you didn't update for 2 days you'll need to download over 1TB . If you didn't touch your wallet for a month you'll be pumping 20TB to get up to date. And all this to be able to use bitcoin as a currency.
After only a year of hoarding blockchain everyone would have about 240TB of blockchain stored locally.

I think this will be problematic from an energy point of view even before the practical problems of storage become too devastating.


THANK YOU MOBO DICK
BULLS BITCOIN IS HORRIBLY  FLAWED, AND THIS ISN'T EVEN INCULDING CONFIRMATIONS, MAINPULATION, NOTHING BACKING THE CURRENCY, PIPE DREAM ON

Admitted Practicing Lawyer::BTC/Crypto Specialist. B.Engineering/B.Laws

https://www.binance.com/?ref=10062065
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April 25, 2013, 10:52:40 AM
 #7

Nice copy-paste job. This is an old debate by the way and has been refuted already, do a search on the forum and have fun reading and learning. Smiley

Bitcoin = Gold on steroids
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April 25, 2013, 10:53:25 AM
 #8


And to the left, we see OP demonstrating his mastery of Google Trends

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April 25, 2013, 10:55:09 AM
 #9

Jesus, just read bitcoin wiki - https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability
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April 25, 2013, 10:55:28 AM
 #10

Moderator, please moderate this crap.

Denarium closing sale discounts now up to 43%! Check out our products from here!
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April 25, 2013, 11:00:04 AM
 #11

BULLS IN DENIAL! THERES THE FACTS, BITCOINS CANNOT BE SCALED AS IT WILL BECOME IMPRACTICAL THEREFORE BITCOIN IS A FLAWED CURRENCY, AND EVERYONE IS WASTING 160 DOLLARS ON A FLAWED CURRENCY, T HAT CAN NEVER TRULEY SCALE BY ITS DESIGN !
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April 25, 2013, 11:02:57 AM
 #12

BULLS IN DENIAL! THERES THE FACTS, BITCOINS CANNOT BE SCALED AS IT WILL BECOME IMPRACTICAL THEREFORE BITCOIN IS A FLAWED CURRENCY, AND EVERYONE IS WASTING 160 DOLLARS ON A FLAWED CURRENCY, T HAT CAN NEVER TRULEY SCALE BY ITS DESIGN !

You're stupid or just a troll ?
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April 25, 2013, 11:04:18 AM
 #13

IM A BEAR
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April 25, 2013, 11:04:25 AM
 #14

BULLS IN DENIAL! THERES THE FACTS, BITCOINS CANNOT BE SCALED AS IT WILL BECOME IMPRACTICAL THEREFORE BITCOIN IS A FLAWED CURRENCY, AND EVERYONE IS WASTING 160 DOLLARS ON A FLAWED CURRENCY, T HAT CAN NEVER TRULEY SCALE BY ITS DESIGN !

Translation: "Sell you fucking bulls. I need to back back cheap around $103."

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

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April 25, 2013, 11:06:13 AM
 #15


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April 25, 2013, 11:10:03 AM
 #16

I agree bitcoin is broken, but it's not the reason you site.  The reason it's broken is that ASICs have shipped and there will no longer be any incentive to mine.  See here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179033
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April 25, 2013, 11:16:30 AM
 #17

I agree bitcoin is broken, but it's not the reason you site.  The reason it's broken is that ASICs have shipped and there will no longer be any incentive to mine.  See here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179033

You mean those who bought ASICs don't have incentives to mine? And therefore Bitcoin is broken?

You make even less sense here than on the PoliceState thread.

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April 25, 2013, 11:25:57 AM
 #18

what is means anu ranu panu lanu wanu, is thatcontrol of the monetary system will be in the hands of those with enough capital to afford asics and have farms, a bit like bankers in control of cypriots money, therefore with bitcoin NOTHING HAS CHANGED
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April 25, 2013, 11:28:06 AM
 #19

what is means anu ranu panu lanu wanu, is thatcontrol of the monetary system will be in the hands of those with enough capital to afford asics and have farms, a bit like nakers in control of cypriots money, therefore with bitcoin NOTHING HAS CHANGED

Arabic drums are in control of Cypriot money? This is some Illuminati shit right here. Tell me more!

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April 25, 2013, 11:30:53 AM
 #20

This thread has so much butthurt in it from the bears. Well one for sure lol

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