Bitfinex- bank blocked all their deposits

[deisik]

Situation like this is a testimony that bitcoin cannot stand in the vacuum without relying on the existing financial system in which banks are  a major facilitator for that. It also shows even if government cannot find a loophole to control bitcoin cannot ban the currency, they can go further by after not recognising the currency then frustrate every move to make transaction seamless because in actual fact bitcoin can't survive without fiat

You make claims without making a simple reality check

If Bitcoin can't survive without fiat as you claim, why its price continues to rise in circumstances when you can't exchange it for fiat? This is not what you would expect from something which depends on fiat when it finally gets divorced with that wretched fiat. As it seems to me, this is actually a "testimony" that Bitcoin is in fact quite all-sufficient and sustainable in and of itself. I've been telling that many times against popular but pointless and mindless opinion around here, but now it turns out that this opinion was not worth a shit altogether since its supporters, proponents and defenders can't even take heed of reality when their opinion came to be tested for real

[stompix]

Situation like this is a testimony that bitcoin cannot stand in the vacuum without relying on the existing financial system in which banks are  a major facilitator for that. It also shows even if government cannot find a loophole to control bitcoin cannot ban the currency, they can go further by after not recognising the currency then frustrate every move to make transaction seamless because in actual fact bitcoin can't survive without fiat

You make claims without making a simple reality check

If Bitcoin can't survive without fiat as you claim, why its price continues to rise in circumstance you can't exchange it for fiat? This is not what you would expect from something which depends on fiat when it finally gets divorced with that fiat. As it seems to me, this is actually a "testimony" that Bitcoin is in fact quite all-sufficient and sustainable in and of itself. I've been telling that many times against popular but pointless and mindless opinion around here, but now it turns out that this opinion was not worth a shit altogether since its supporters, proponents and defenders can't even take heed of reality when their opinion came to be tested for real

Common , we all know why bitcoin price is going up right now.
Because people are trapped right now at bitscam.

Once you can exchange it for fiat and withdraw it and  the banking problem is solved everybody agrees we will see a correction.
What would that mean?

That people prefer fiat for bitcoin.

Let's be honest. Right now bitcoin needs the banks and it needs fiat money.
A total fallout 100x Cyprus story won't help bitcoin either.

[mindrust]

Is there any hope for this exchange to survive? People who are trapped in fiat just panic buy bitcoins now and they convert them to FIAT in some other exchange. Bad thing is, the price differs between finex and the other exchanges by around ~100$ so, it means ~%10 loss for the fiat holders.

If they wait, they risk their money big time. If they act, they have to take the minimum %10 loss.

I guess finex is over. They fucked up.

[hankyulpark]

We need a better and more frequent communication from exchanges (not only Bitfinex). Money (in all forms) is something sensitive and transparency with it is the best way to avoid unnecessary drama, bad decisions and stressful situations that don't benefit almost anyone. There is a lot of time since their last announcement on their website...

[PremiumCodeX]

You are lucky because you learned the notice. I remember, when they closed Liberty Reverse without notice. I never got my money back. One of the examples why "decentralization" is such a big word in crypto.

[deisik]

Situation like this is a testimony that bitcoin cannot stand in the vacuum without relying on the existing financial system in which banks are  a major facilitator for that. It also shows even if government cannot find a loophole to control bitcoin cannot ban the currency, they can go further by after not recognising the currency then frustrate every move to make transaction seamless because in actual fact bitcoin can't survive without fiat

You make claims without making a simple reality check

If Bitcoin can't survive without fiat as you claim, why its price continues to rise in circumstance you can't exchange it for fiat? This is not what you would expect from something which depends on fiat when it finally gets divorced with that fiat. As it seems to me, this is actually a "testimony" that Bitcoin is in fact quite all-sufficient and sustainable in and of itself. I've been telling that many times against popular but pointless and mindless opinion around here, but now it turns out that this opinion was not worth a shit altogether since its supporters, proponents and defenders can't even take heed of reality when their opinion came to be tested for real

Common , we all know why bitcoin price is going up right now.
Because people are trapped right now at bitscam

Do you really think I didn't expect someone coming up with something like this?

You may claim that the prices are going up right now because people got trapped at Bitfinex with their dollars, but then you will have to explain why Bitcoin prices are going up at other exchanges too, namely, at those which don't have any issues with fiat withdrawals. If people were buying up bitcoins at Bitfinex to sell them for fiat elsewhere (which is the only path along which you can plausibly claim that "people prefer fiat for bitcoin"), the price elsewhere should necessarily decline but this doesn't happen. Now go ahead with you explanation, it will be fun to see and hear

[aTriz]

You are lucky because you learned the notice. I remember, when they closed Liberty Reverse without notice. I never got my money back. One of the examples why "decentralization" is such a big word in crypto.

I have always thought that we cannot make anything really big in cryptocurrency world without decentralization.
This is a factor that makes every single service and website insanely attractive, if it is indeed 100% decentralized. For example, fully P2P cryptocurrency exchanges have thousands of happy customers, which are using them everyday.

Bitcoin and cryptos needs to be independent. The rest of the system should not affect our small community, we need to hold on together and do not let to give any chance for the "authorities" to gain control over BTC.
Imagine if bitcoin could have been controlled by any country, or a goverment. Something like that would simply erase its value, in such a case nobody  would need such a cryptocurrency.

[victory1]

Clash of interest.

Banks are finally making their move.

[stompix]

Situation like this is a testimony that bitcoin cannot stand in the vacuum without relying on the existing financial system in which banks are  a major facilitator for that. It also shows even if government cannot find a loophole to control bitcoin cannot ban the currency, they can go further by after not recognising the currency then frustrate every move to make transaction seamless because in actual fact bitcoin can't survive without fiat

You make claims without making a simple reality check

If Bitcoin can't survive without fiat as you claim, why its price continues to rise in circumstance you can't exchange it for fiat? This is not what you would expect from something which depends on fiat when it finally gets divorced with that fiat. As it seems to me, this is actually a "testimony" that Bitcoin is in fact quite all-sufficient and sustainable in and of itself. I've been telling that many times against popular but pointless and mindless opinion around here, but now it turns out that this opinion was not worth a shit altogether since its supporters, proponents and defenders can't even take heed of reality when their opinion came to be tested for real

Common , we all know why bitcoin price is going up right now.
Because people are trapped right now at bitscam

Do you really think I didn't expect someone coming up with something like this?

You may claim that the prices are going up right now because people got trapped at Bitfinex with their dollars, but then you will have to explain why Bitcoin prices are going up at other exchanges too, namely, at those which don't have any issues with fiat withdrawals. If people were buying up bitcoins at Bitfinex to sell them for fiat elsewhere (which is the only path along which you can plausibly claim that "people prefer fiat for bitcoin"), the price elsewhere should necessarily decline but this doesn't happen. Now go ahead with you explanation, it will be fun to see and hear

You assume:

If people were buying up bitcoins at Bitfinex to sell them for fiat elsewhere (which is the only path along which you can plausibly claim that "people prefer fiat for bitcoin"),

Why do you think that there aren't people are also buying bitcoins on stamp and coinbase to dump it on bitfinex?
There was one guy who wired 10k and was clapping here on the forum how he bought cheap coins on gox.
So this possibility exists also.

Also you're forgetting that there are people who deny these problems at bitfinex.
Those will buy continuously even if all the alarm bells are triggered.

And furthermore what trader would rush to sell his coins after he got them at a 10% premium.
It's like banging together to avalanche signs in a valley full of snow.

As it seems to me, this is actually a "testimony" that Bitcoin is in fact quite all-sufficient and sustainable in and of itself.

Then why the dump to 900 last month ? What explanation you have for that if this right now is the real price?
Now your explanation should be funny if we exclude the pump and dump scenario.

[deisik]

Do you really think I didn't expect someone coming up with something like this?

You may claim that the prices are going up right now because people got trapped at Bitfinex with their dollars, but then you will have to explain why Bitcoin prices are going up at other exchanges too, namely, at those which don't have any issues with fiat withdrawals. If people were buying up bitcoins at Bitfinex to sell them for fiat elsewhere (which is the only path along which you can plausibly claim that "people prefer fiat for bitcoin"), the price elsewhere should necessarily decline but this doesn't happen. Now go ahead with you explanation, it will be fun to see and hear

You assume:

If people were buying up bitcoins at Bitfinex to sell them for fiat elsewhere (which is the only path along which you can plausibly claim that "people prefer fiat for bitcoin"),

Why do you think that there aren't people are also buying bitcoins on stamp and coinbase to dump it on bitfinex?
There was one guy who wired 10k and was clapping here on the forum how he bought cheap coins on gox.
So this possibility exists also

You should understand that when you raise some issue, you won't be able to sidestep it

At least, not with me. Basically, your point comes down to claiming that people prefer fiat to Bitcoin (wtf, I just repeat what you said word by word). So why the hell are they buying Bitcoin in the first place at all if they actually prefer fiat to Bitcoin? What you are trying to say essentially boils down to claiming that people buy Bitcoin because they prefer fiat. As to me, that's nonsense. In this way, you still somehow lack to coherently (or even incoherently) address the issue which I just posed. Namely, why the prices are growing everywhere? I guess you can't possibly escape from the law of supply and demand (whether you like it or not), i.e. if prices are growing across the markets, it means that demand is higher than supply and people, on the whole, are buying bitcoins, not selling them, as simple as it gets. If people were running for cash (as you assume yourself), that would cause massive dumps everywhere (though at Bitfinex Bitcoin could actually rise, of course, since fiat withdrawals are disabled). So I'm still waiting for your coherent explanation

[stompix]

Do you really think I didn't expect someone coming up with something like this?

You may claim that the prices are going up right now because people got trapped at Bitfinex with their dollars, but then you will have to explain why Bitcoin prices are going up at other exchanges too, namely, at those which don't have any issues with fiat withdrawals. If people were buying up bitcoins at Bitfinex to sell them for fiat elsewhere (which is the only path along which you can plausibly claim that "people prefer fiat for bitcoin"), the price elsewhere should necessarily decline but this doesn't happen. Now go ahead with you explanation, it will be fun to see and hear

You assume:

If people were buying up bitcoins at Bitfinex to sell them for fiat elsewhere (which is the only path along which you can plausibly claim that "people prefer fiat for bitcoin"),

Why do you think that there aren't people are also buying bitcoins on stamp and coinbase to dump it on bitfinex?
There was one guy who wired 10k and was clapping here on the forum how he bought cheap coins on gox.
So this possibility exists also

You should understand that when you raise some issue, you won't be able to sidestep it

At least, not with me. Basically, you point comes down to claiming that people prefer fiat to Bitcoin (wtf, I just repeat what you said word after word). So why the hell they would be buying Bitcoin in the first place at all? Further, you still somehow lack to coherently (or even not coherently) address the issue which I posed. Namely, why the prices are growing everywhere? Apart from that, you can't possibly escape from the law of supply and demand (whether you like it not), i.e. if prices are growing across the markets, it means that demand is higher than supply and people, on the whole are buying bitcoins, not selling them, as simple as it gets. If people were running for cash (as you assume yourself), that would cause massive dumps everywhere (though at Bitfinex Bitcoin could actually rise, of course, since fiat withdrawals are locked). So I'm still waiting for your coherent explanation

Oh , I bow to the might god of controversy. I should not make one sidestep for which I will burn in the bitcoin hell of eternity.
Not let's ctc..

First. Not all people buy bitcoin because they want to get rid of fiat and live in bitcoin only land
99% of the posts here are about "when will bitcoin reach 90 00 , 100 000 000 a billion so I can be rich".
This is a fact, a sad one and I doubt you can start another war on it.

Phase two.
Funny how you expect a coherent explanation when you use no more that a row of four ().
But back to the main point.

I've already said it , and that is true people are putting pressure on bitfinex price by trying to get out.
The funny thing is that they only have one option, right? That is fiat! Or they could buy 1000 loads of cheese and run away with it.
I don't know the cheese/btc price on bitfinex but I think the rates are worse than btx/usd.

So you're wondering why the price keeps rising if people are wanting to get out of fiat.
NOOOOO.
I've said it again and again, people are wanting fiat because they want to get out of that bitfinex.
It's not that everybody wants fiat because there is no reason right now to go out of stamp or coinbase or kraken.

Remember the goxbot?Why was the price going up on bitstamp also at that time?
Easy, cause ... sheeeeeeeep.

Now , time for you to do some explanations.
If bitcoin is self sufficient and bla bla and people don't want fiat or cheese but only bitcoins..

Why in the name of god do we have a 125 dollar spread right now?

[deisik]

~snipped~

As I said, you won't be able to sidestep the issue, talk it away, or otherwise wash it out

My reasoning is pretty simple (and I expect you to come up with something as simple), i.e. if Bitcoin price is rising on the whole (which it is), it basically tells that people prefer Bitcoin to fiat, and not the other way round. I don't really know how you can interpret this growth in any other way, let alone claim that people buy Bitcoin because they prefer fiat. But that's what all your arguments can be reduced to

[stompix]

~snipped~

As I said, you won't be able to sidestep the issue, talk it away, or otherwise wash it out

My reasoning is pretty simple (and I expect you to come up with something as simple), i.e. if Bitcoin price is overall rising (which it is), it tells that people prefer Bitcoin to fiat. I don't really know how you can interpret it any other way, let alone claim that people buy Bitcoin because they prefer fiat. But that's what all your arguments can be reduced to

When explanation are not working the way you wished for you're bringing the discussion to the starting point and asking again the same stuff.
No, this is not how it works.

You're doing right now the sidestepping.
And if you want a real discussion you should also start answering questions. And that bold one I've asked there would be perfect.

So:

Why in the name of god do we have a 125 dollar spread right now?

[QuestionAuthority]

~snipped~

As I said, you won't be able to sidestep the issue, talk it away, or otherwise wash it out

My reasoning is pretty simple (and I expect you to come up with something as simple), i.e. if Bitcoin price is overall rising (which it is), it tells that people prefer Bitcoin to fiat. I don't really know how you can interpret it any other way, let alone claim that people buy Bitcoin because they prefer fiat. But that's what all your arguments can be reduced to

When explanation are not working the way you wished for you're bringing the discussion to the starting point and asking again the same stuff.
No, this is not how it works.

You're doing right now the sidestepping.
And if you want a real discussion you should also start answering questions. And that bold one I've asked there would be perfect.

So:

Why in the name of god do we have a 125 dollar spread right now?

Speculators are going ape shit on a rally. Remember in 2010-11 when speculators blew gold up from $1,050 to over $1,900, then it went right back down to $1,050? When you look at the Bitcoin price think gold 2.0.

The reason there's a spread is that one exchange has all the speculator action. It takes time for the other exchanges to catch up. Some traders attempt to arbitrage the spread but its tough because you need to move vast amounts of money quickly. When Mark Karpeles was attempting to cover up his mistakes he used bots to arrifically move the price up quickly. There was over a $200 spread at that time. Of course, arbitrage was out of the question because his price was fake and he was about to collapse. Is that happening again I wonder?

[victory1]

The BTC spread caused by this is a concern.

Hopefully it will resolve soon and not develop into mtgox 2.0 saga.

[deisik]

~snipped~

As I said, you won't be able to sidestep the issue, talk it away, or otherwise wash it out

My reasoning is pretty simple (and I expect you to come up with something as simple), i.e. if Bitcoin price is overall rising (which it is), it tells that people prefer Bitcoin to fiat. I don't really know how you can interpret it any other way, let alone claim that people buy Bitcoin because they prefer fiat. But that's what all your arguments can be reduced to

When explanation are not working the way you wished for you're bringing the discussion to the starting point and asking again the same stuff

You didn't explain anything

You didn't explain why prices are going up everywhere instead of going down which should have happened according to your assumption that people prefer fiat to Bitcoin. You repeat the same stuff again and again but you won't be able to change the facts, i.e. Bitcoin prices rising over all markets out there. Regarding your question, the reason is simple, some people are trying to move their funds from that exchange while others are trying to exploit that opportunity. Note that it doesn't necessarily mean that the former really want to exchange bitcoins to fiat. If they actually wanted that, we would see the price crashing everywhere else. But we don't see that, which pretty much disqualifies your whole assumption. In short, you are weak and your logic is flawed while your assumptions are blatantly false

[stompix]

~snipped~

As I said, you won't be able to sidestep the issue, talk it away, or otherwise wash it out

My reasoning is pretty simple (and I expect you to come up with something as simple), i.e. if Bitcoin price is overall rising (which it is), it tells that people prefer Bitcoin to fiat. I don't really know how you can interpret it any other way, let alone claim that people buy Bitcoin because they prefer fiat. But that's what all your arguments can be reduced to

When explanation are not working the way you wished for you're bringing the discussion to the starting point and asking again the same stuff

You didn't explain anything

You didn't explain why prices are going up everywhere instead of going down which should have happened according to your assumption that people prefer fiat to Bitcoin. You repeat the same stuff again and again but you won't be able to change the facts, i.e. Bitcoin prices rising over all markets out there. Regarding your question, the reason is simple, some people are trying to move their funds from that exchange while others are trying to exploit that opportunity. Note that it doesn't necessarily mean that the former really want to exchange bitcoins to fiat. If they actually wanted that, we would see the price crashing everywhere else. But we don't see that, which pretty much disqualifies your whole assumption. In short, you are weak and your logic is flawed while your assumptions are blatantly false

Yeah , yeah , yeah , thanks for repeating (in bold) exactly what I've said and by a a triple twisting logic coming to a different conclusion.
Five lines of criticizing and actually saying nothing.

How the hell are those people moving their funds with withdraws frozen?
They buy bitcoins because they couldn't do this with fiat.

In short, you are weak and your logic is flawed while your assumptions are blatantly false

Anything else to add other than personal (and flawed) attacks?

[Wind_FURY]

..snip..
What do you mean? That all that is going on with Bitfinex is completely like what went on with MtGox? I believe not yet. There was a massive buying that catapulted the price of Bitcoin from a few hundred to over $1000. I hope we see it happen again.

if you are talking about the 2013 gox price then it was "catapulted" from less than $200 to above $1100 in nearly 2 months.
and no one likes that to happen again unless you are a fiat fan and want to take your fiat out of bitcoin and give up on bitcoin.

Do not be a plaster saint. We all know that the fiat value of Bitcoin still and will always matter to you, to me and everyone else. Why do you think many people in Bitcoin love to speculate on the price? If you have found a new way to measure Bitcoin's value do not hesitate to tell us.

i don't know what "plaster saint means"
and i am not talking about "the price" i am talking about "how the price get there". nobody wasnts a fast price rise leading to a bubble and then bubble bursting and price coming down.
we all want bitcoin price to rise up, obviously. but most of all we want it to stay there. that is why we prefer a more stable and slow rise.

someone who wants more fiat and doesn't care about bitcoin price wants the opposite. they want the price to rise up fast so they can cash out and then after the dump buy back in and cash out again with more fiat.

Plaster saint means hypocrite. You make it appear in your first reply to me that only fiat fans want the price of Bitcoin to go up. Are you not a fiat fan? Of course you are, we all are!

There are a few people on the forum that hate fiat. They live in a fantasy land where Bitcoin is the world currency and there is no government, big banks or taxes because Bitcoin washed it all away. Government is a tiny little thing who's only real job is annual mosquito control at lakes and ponds. Everyone is free to rape, pillage, do drugs, shoot machine guns in their back yard and generally do anything they want to do. When I was young we called these type of people lunatics. Today they're called libertarians. LOL

The minute these libertarians get their Bitcoins stolen or if an exchange fails, where would they run most likely? Yes the government that they hate so much.

[QuestionAuthority]

..snip..
What do you mean? That all that is going on with Bitfinex is completely like what went on with MtGox? I believe not yet. There was a massive buying that catapulted the price of Bitcoin from a few hundred to over $1000. I hope we see it happen again.

if you are talking about the 2013 gox price then it was "catapulted" from less than $200 to above $1100 in nearly 2 months.
and no one likes that to happen again unless you are a fiat fan and want to take your fiat out of bitcoin and give up on bitcoin.

Do not be a plaster saint. We all know that the fiat value of Bitcoin still and will always matter to you, to me and everyone else. Why do you think many people in Bitcoin love to speculate on the price? If you have found a new way to measure Bitcoin's value do not hesitate to tell us.

i don't know what "plaster saint means"
and i am not talking about "the price" i am talking about "how the price get there". nobody wasnts a fast price rise leading to a bubble and then bubble bursting and price coming down.
we all want bitcoin price to rise up, obviously. but most of all we want it to stay there. that is why we prefer a more stable and slow rise.

someone who wants more fiat and doesn't care about bitcoin price wants the opposite. they want the price to rise up fast so they can cash out and then after the dump buy back in and cash out again with more fiat.

Plaster saint means hypocrite. You make it appear in your first reply to me that only fiat fans want the price of Bitcoin to go up. Are you not a fiat fan? Of course you are, we all are!

There are a few people on the forum that hate fiat. They live in a fantasy land where Bitcoin is the world currency and there is no government, big banks or taxes because Bitcoin washed it all away. Government is a tiny little thing who's only real job is annual mosquito control at lakes and ponds. Everyone is free to rape, pillage, do drugs, shoot machine guns in their back yard and generally do anything they want to do. When I was young we called these type of people lunatics. Today they're called libertarians. LOL

The minute these libertarians get their Bitcoins stolen or if an exchange fails, where would they run most likely? Yes the government that they hate so much.

Oh yeah, they've proven that multiple times with pirate, BFL, MtGox,  FeedZBirds, SatoshiDice IPO, Bitscalper, etc.

In fact, running to mommy government is so annoying for the SEC that they made their own bitcoin scammer website. LOL
 https://investor.gov/additional-resources/news-alerts/alerts-bulletins/investor-alert-bitcoin-other-virtual-currency#.U2uV1PldV1Y  

[deisik]

You didn't explain anything

You didn't explain why prices are going up everywhere instead of going down which should have happened according to your assumption that people prefer fiat to Bitcoin. You repeat the same stuff again and again but you won't be able to change the facts, i.e. Bitcoin prices rising over all markets out there. Regarding your question, the reason is simple, some people are trying to move their funds from that exchange while others are trying to exploit that opportunity. Note that it doesn't necessarily mean that the former really want to exchange bitcoins to fiat. If they actually wanted that, we would see the price crashing everywhere else. But we don't see that, which pretty much disqualifies your whole assumption. In short, you are weak and your logic is flawed while your assumptions are blatantly false

Yeah , yeah , yeah , thanks for repeating (in bold) exactly what I've said

Oh, really? Do I have a memory leak or what?

people prefer fiat for bitcoin

Five lines of criticizing and actually saying nothing.

How the hell are those people moving their funds with withdraws frozen?
They buy bitcoins because they couldn't do this with fiat.

In short, you are weak and your logic is flawed while your assumptions are blatantly false

Anything else to add other than personal (and flawed) attacks?

These are not personal attacks, I'm just letting you know how it feels

You've been warned that you won't be able to sidestep or otherwise obfuscate this issue. You said that people prefer fiat to Bitcoin, care to explain finally how this is ever possible when Bitcoin price is rising? My conclusion is the same, no need to muddle waters here. The net effect is that people prefer to keep their bitcoins, not dump them. But since the price is rising at all markets that necessarily means that they are pouring fiat into Bitcoin, not the other way round. How many times should I repeat that? Further, it is FIAT withdrawals that are disabled at Bitfinex, and only USD withdrawals at that, so no need to make it look as if all withdrawals are disabled there. You can still withdraw to Swiss franc and Hong-King dollar (via individual requests), apart from crypto, obviously

If people really wanted to dump their coins for fiat, they would withdraw these coins to other exchanges and sell them there. That would necessarily cause the prices to crash everywhere except Bitfinex (now think how stupid your remarks sound and your antics look even if you can't understand how markets work), and likely at Bitfinex too (though the spread would probably widen). I'm trading there myself and unless Bitfinex is going to scam, I don't give a fuck about fiat withdrawals being disabled. In fact, I give a fuck, but certainly not in the way you may think. People are looking to multiply their profits and these profits are certainly counted in bitcoins, not fiat