AR 15 Lowers

[RandyFolds]

There is no way that the BATFE is going to agree that bolting one half to the other half constitutes 20% or more of the process of manufacturing a lower.

That much is true...that's why I want to see plans. 80% receivers still require machining, which bolting definitely is not. That said, I have no idea how you could implement a bolted lower. More info, OP!

[stevegee58]

Out of curiousity, how many of these letters have you seen?

Tactical Machining posted theirs.  So there's one.

[RandyFolds]

Out of curiousity, how many of these letters have you seen?

Tactical Machining posted theirs.  So there's one.

Well I'll be damned. I've never encountered one before, but I've never purchased any boutique blanks.

[Kluge]

Out of curiousity, how many of these letters have you seen?

Tactical Machining posted theirs.  So there's one.

Well I'll be damned. I've never encountered one before, but I've never purchased any boutique blanks.

[crazyates]

Out of curiousity, how many of these letters have you seen?

Tactical Machining posted theirs.  So there's one.

Well I'll be damned. I've never encountered one before, but I've never purchased any boutique blanks.

So all of those 80% or 95% lowers are able to be sold because they have zero machining done to the trigger area. These bolt together units will have to have that done.

The only way I see this working is if you just shipped the two halves in separate boxes at separate times from different locations, and just didn't care for the legalities.

[stevegee58]

If OP is openly advertising that he's selling 80% lower receivers he's going to get an inquiry from the ATF sooner or later.

An 80% lower is a hunk of metal.  An 81% receiver is a regulated firearm.  The ATF determines how compliant you are and issues a letter when they're satisfied.

OP's idea for a bolt-together lower receiver is basically a 99% and won't fly.  Hopefully he understands how easy it easy to commit a felony and go to prison in this business.

Shipping the 2 halves separately to avoid these regs will land OP in prison.

[Sothh]

If OP is openly advertising that he's selling 80% lower receivers he's going to get an inquiry from the ATF sooner or later.

An 80% lower is a hunk of metal.  An 81% receiver is a regulated firearm.  The ATF determines how compliant you are and issues a letter when they're satisfied.

OP's idea for a bolt-together lower receiver is basically a 99% and won't fly.  Hopefully he understands how easy it easy to commit a felony and go to prison in this business.

Shipping the 2 halves separately to avoid these regs will land OP in prison.

The design I am working on could actually be shipped in more than two parts, each part being a flat sheet of metal with holes.  If I go to jail for selling a few pieces of metal, then this country really is screwed.

On a side note, I will make sure the product is legally compliant before I ship, and if I am forced to, I will only sell 80% lowers, or I will ship though a ATF dealer.

[barbarousrelic]

If OP is openly advertising that he's selling 80% lower receivers he's going to get an inquiry from the ATF sooner or later.

An 80% lower is a hunk of metal.  An 81% receiver is a regulated firearm.  The ATF determines how compliant you are and issues a letter when they're satisfied.

OP's idea for a bolt-together lower receiver is basically a 99% and won't fly.  Hopefully he understands how easy it easy to commit a felony and go to prison in this business.

Shipping the 2 halves separately to avoid these regs will land OP in prison.

The design I am working on could actually be shipped in more than two parts, each part being a flat sheet of metal with holes.  If I go to jail for selling a few pieces of metal, then this country really is screwed.


On a side note, I will make sure the product is legally compliant before I ship, and if I am forced to, I will only sell 80% lowers, or I will ship though a ATF dealer.

A judge will not consider your splitting a lower into two, or even three, trivially-assembleable pieces to be cute or clever. He will consider it to be willful flaunting of federal gun laws and will make an example of you. These laws are not taken lightly.

[Sothh]

What if I design an AR lower that is made out of legos and epoxy?  Then what?

[crazyates]

What if I design an AR lower that is made out of legos and epoxy?  Then what?

I would assume it's the same as a person who makes and sells 80% lowers, or those 3D printed lowers. As long as you are making one for yourself, it's legal. As soon as you start selling it, it's illegal.

[Sothh]

What if I design an AR lower that is made out of legos and epoxy?  Then what?

I would assume it's the same as a person who makes and sells 80% lowers, or those 3D printed lowers. As long as you are making one for yourself, it's legal. As soon as you start selling it, it's illegal.

No, I mean what if I design an ar lower made out of legos, and then sell you a bag of legos along with plans to make a lower of of them.   Just saying it would be really funny, and maybe even doable.

[eroxors]

He's not selling them, he's trading them for something called a "bitcoin." 

[barbarousrelic]

No, I mean what if I design an ar lower made out of legos, and then sell you a bag of legos along with plans to make a lower of of them.   Just saying it would be really funny, and maybe even doable.

I'm sure the BATF agents breaking out your windows at 2:00 AM with tear gas grenades will find it hilarious.

[stevegee58]

What if I design an AR lower that is made out of legos and epoxy?  Then what?

I would assume it's the same as a person who makes and sells 80% lowers, or those 3D printed lowers. As long as you are making one for yourself, it's legal. As soon as you start selling it, it's illegal.

No, I mean what if I design an ar lower made out of legos, and then sell you a bag of legos along with plans to make a lower of of them.   Just saying it would be really funny, and maybe even doable.

When you're in court the judge will not find this amusing.  Oh, and be sure not to drop the soap.

[Sothh]

But its not illegal to sell a plan or legos...

[Gomeler]

But its not illegal to sell a plan or legos...

My understanding is that would be legal. This would be similar to an 80% lower with jigs to make milling out the fire control group easier.

That being said I cannot imagine an epoxied lego lower would hold up well. An AR-15 lower isn't a pressure bearing part but you're going to have a fun time keeping the rear take-down pin through-hole from snapping off with just legos and epoxy  

[barbarousrelic]

But its not illegal to sell a plan or legos...

It's not illegal to sell steel or aluminum either, unless they fit the definition of what the government defines as "guns" (and you aren't licensed to do so)

[stevegee58]

But its not illegal to sell a plan or legos...

Your first mistake is you're trying to apply logic and common sense to this.  Gun laws can be arcane and easily misinterpreted but that's how it is.

[ArcologyPrime]

That being said I cannot imagine an epoxied lego lower would hold up well. An AR-15 lower isn't a pressure bearing part but you're going to have a fun time keeping the rear take-down pin through-hole from snapping off with just legos and epoxy  

Legos, yes. However, this:

http://www.infowars.com/3d-printed-lower-receiver-withstands-more-than-650-rounds-gun-grabbers-panic/

Honestly I'd rather build a makerbot 3d-printer. Much more likely to be legal, too!

[Draxus]

If you want to be safe, stick with 80% lowers...you could however include the guides for what needs to be milled and drilled.  That is perfectly legal.

In my opinion you should be able to send me a fully assembled lower without any hassle but sadly my opinion is not the law