VERITASEUM DISCUSSION THREAD

[CoinMLS]

Maybe I am not as smart as you are when it comes to contracts. You may teach me on how exactly a stream of cash flow can be tokenized without tokenizing the source of the cash flow itself. I am very open-minded and would like to see your explanation on this. In my understanding, asset tokenization is fractional ownership. So if there is absolutely no ownership whatsoever in the underlying asset as you imply, I am not really sure how distribution of cash flow can be legally assured to the token holders.

I believe they are basically loans. A simple example would be if you had a rental property that earned $1000/month. You could agree for someone to give you $5000 today in exchange for $500/month for the next year with the revenue to come from 1/2 of the monthly rent. The agreement would likely have a personal guarantee in case the rent did not get paid. So then you could issue 500 tokens for $10 each and each token holder gets $1/month for 12 months.

Nevertheless, I think you are too immersed in Reggie and Veritaseum to the point of denying everything negative, to the point where you see this private business as something that is 100% perfect, to the point where you truly believe buying prepaid fee token is going to be a great investment.

No, VERI is what it is. In the sea of crypto projects it is one of the best applications making use of smart contracts. I don't know if VERI will ever "moon" but the track record of what has been done and what is in the pipeline shows that Reggie is working hard to increase the utility of the token and the adoption and use, and that should lead to increased valuation over time.

I bet there is no denying that you and I are both in all these crypto stuff purely for the money. And I honestly believe there are some other much greater investment potential that you truly are unaware of beyond VERI.

There might be better projects out there. I have quite diverse holdings. If I do find a better project I am not beyond selling VERI to buy it.

"Just because it does not represent equity doesn't mean it can't or won't go up in value as use of the token increases and we see the benefits of the network effect." I bet this will remain your personal fallacy for a very long time to come.

If you believe I am false then you must not own any coins or tokens that are not security coins/tokens. I am not aware of any popular crypto projects where token holders have equity in the business that created the token. Can you name a few for me?

Some utility tokens have models that will lead to price appreciation (if platform plans are executed as planned) while others do not. If you cannot see this then crypto is not a space you should be in as we have different beliefs.

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[Dorkie]

I believe they are basically loans. A simple example would be if you had a rental property that earned $1000/month. You could agree for someone to give you $5000 today in exchange for $500/month for the next year with the revenue to come from 1/2 of the monthly rent. The agreement would likely have a personal guarantee in case the rent did not get paid. So then you could issue 500 tokens for $10 each and each token holder gets $1/month for 12 months.

No, VERI is what it is. In the sea of crypto projects it is one of the best applications making use of smart contracts. I don't know if VERI will ever "moon" but the track record of what has been done and what is in the pipeline shows that Reggie is working hard to increase the utility of the token and the adoption and use, and that should lead to increased valuation over time.

If you believe I am false then you must not own any coins or tokens that are not security coins/tokens. I am not aware of any popular crypto projects where token holders have equity in the business that created the token. Can you name a few for me?

Some utility tokens have models that will lead to price appreciation (if platform plans are executed as planned) while others do not. If you cannot see this then crypto is not a space you should be in as we have different beliefs.

So asset tokenization is a form of loan? Well, ok if that's what you think. To me, asset tokenization involves some form of asset ownership. Otherwise it is not asset tokenization but something else. More like P2P lending. But inappropriate as asset tokenization or fractional ownership which is more properly reserved for securities, not loans.

Reggie says VERI is both recyclable and resellable, i.e. used token will not be burned but instead recycled for sale again. So what impact do you think these features will have on the pricing? Do you think this is a model that will lead to price appreciation?

I don't own any securities token because they are still not yet available as I know. The utility tokens I own so far are pretty well-managed projects with many partnerships (including corporate ones) and their tokens get burned as they are used. They do not get recycled and resold over and over again. So yeah, if you want to know the key difference --> corporate partnerships and tokens get burned as they are used. VERI has no known formalized partnership and the tokens are recyclable and resellable.

I also hold a shitty prepaid fee utility token that is very similar in nature to VERI --> LA. The only big difference between LA and VERI is LA does not hype its project at the level that Reggie is doing. Besides, between LA and VERI, VERI gets regular promotions by Clif High, Bix Weir, etc, throughout the years so I believe the elevated price of VERI is mostly because of hype. Fundamentally, LA and VERI and their associated projects are not very different as you may think. And no, I do not see LA being a competitor to VERI. There are others far more competitive.

I believe you are false in mixing up utility tokens with cryptocurrencies. They are not the same.

I can see a lot of things. That is why I am in the crypto space. And yes, I feel sad whenever I tell myself I am holding some utility tokens that are not investment-grade. That is why I try my best to hold only the ones that are the least shitty. That does not mean I should be holding VERI.

[CoinMLS]

So asset tokenization is a form of loan? Well, ok if that's what you think. To me, asset tokenization involves some form of asset ownership. Otherwise it is not asset tokenization but something else. More like P2P lending. But inappropriate as asset tokenization or fractional ownership which is more properly reserved for securities, not loans.

Depends on what the asset is. Tokenized cash flows MUST be considered a loan, unless you can think of a way to do it differently. Specifically, you have to tokenize cash flow for a certain period, you cannot tokenize all future cash flows for infinity. Cash flow for an infinite time period would be more like asset ownership. So if you sell x years of cash flows via tokens, you can calculate a net present value and price the tokens accordingly. In my example above, it is effectively a $5k loan backed by the cash flow from the asset the debtor owns.

Reggie says VERI is both recyclable and resellable, i.e. used token will not be burned but instead recycled for sale again. So what impact do you think these features will have on the pricing? Do you think this is a model that will lead to price appreciation?

I believe we've been over this.
Reggie will only sell large quantities of tokens (new or recycled) in large quantities to large buyers. While they could, these buyers should be buying tokens to use them, not to sell them on exchanges. As they will not enter the exchanges, they should not affect price.
Going forward, of the 2M tokens in circulation, eventually they will be used and the supply available to exchanges should decrease, as again the tokens from large direct sales should not be entering the exchanges in theory. So increased demand and usage by 'small guys' should lead to price appreciation. I could be wrong.

I can see a lot of things. That is why I am in the crypto space. And yes, I feel sad whenever I tell myself I am holding some utility tokens that are not investment-grade. That is why I try my best to hold only the ones that are the least shitty. That does not mean I should be holding VERI.

Clearly VERI is not for you. And that's OK.

[CoinMLS]

https://cryptocentral.io/looking-for-hidden-gems-in-the-cryptospace-veritaseum-veadir/

LOOKING FOR HIDDEN GEMS IN THE CRYPTOSPACE – VERITASEUM (VEADIR)

[Dorkie]

On one hand, Reggie refrains from hyping VERI as an investment to escape regulation, yet at the same time he retweets 3rd-party tweets that do so. I just want to say this is unprofessional. Veritaseum just retweeted a 3rd-party tweet that goes "Will $veri  become a top 5 #crypto in 2019 on @CoinMarketCap ?@ReggieMiddleton is the man to make it happen imo. Wait until the banks discover and understand the @Veritaseuminc platform", indirectly giving the impression that VERI has investment potential. By right, he should refrain from associating himself and company with all conducts, be it 1st-party or 3rd-party, that give impression of VERI having an investment proposition. Of course someone here may find some excuse why that is perfectly okay, but that's not what many others, especially the regulator, will see from a professional standpoint.

[CoinMLS]

On one hand, Reggie refrains from hyping VERI as an investment to escape regulation, yet at the same time he retweets 3rd-party tweets that do so. I just want to say this is unprofessional. Veritaseum just retweeted a 3rd-party tweet that goes "Will $veri  become a top 5 #crypto in 2019 on @CoinMarketCap ?@ReggieMiddleton is the man to make it happen imo. Wait until the banks discover and understand the @Veritaseuminc platform", indirectly giving the impression that VERI has investment potential. By right, he should refrain from associating himself and company with all conducts, be it 1st-party or 3rd-party, that give impression of VERI having an investment proposition. Of course someone here may find some excuse why that is perfectly okay, but that's not what many others, especially the regulator, will see from a professional standpoint.

Many people would say ETH is not an investment either, but those same people recognize the likelihood of the price of ETH to increase due to what's called the "network effect." VERI is no different.

[Dorkie]

Many people would say ETH is not an investment either, but those same people recognize the likelihood of the price of ETH to increase due to what's called the "network effect." VERI is no different.

The Ethereum Foundation very clearly from the very start expressed ETH marketing as a crypto fuel, like a commodity, thus even though it is not a security it nevertheless has investment value and to be regulated under the CFTC, as far as I know. What about VERI that Reggie incessantly marketed as a prepaid fee utility token? What asset class is VERI? And which regulator will be responsible in regulating VERI?

[CoinMLS]

Many people would say ETH is not an investment either, but those same people recognize the likelihood of the price of ETH to increase due to what's called the "network effect." VERI is no different.

The Ethereum Foundation very clearly from the very start expressed ETH marketing as a crypto fuel, like a commodity, thus even though it is not a security it nevertheless has investment value and to be regulated under the CFTC, as far as I know. What about VERI that Reggie incessantly marketed as a prepaid fee utility token? What asset class is VERI? And which regulator will be responsible in regulating VERI?

Prepaid fees would be like gift cards. Gift cards do not need regulation. Nonetheless, we need not fear as Reggie has been working with regulators to attempt to get them to issue a statement or policy that says as much.

[Dorkie]

Prepaid fees would be like gift cards.

Exactly.
It is very interesting to see gift cards having very significant "investment proposition" and yet not regulated, assuming it is legit to start with. If you have lots of such gift cards, I should wish you good luck.

[CoinMLS]

Prepaid fees would be like gift cards.

Exactly.
It is very interesting to see gift cards having very significant "investment proposition" and yet not regulated, assuming it is legit to start with. If you have lots of such gift cards, I should wish you good luck.

I have a pile of free burrito cards for Chipotle that never expire. As Chipotle raises prices, I make more profit.
My hoard of Forever stamps also keep increasing in value.
What you buy on Kickstarter is often the right to one of the first products produced, typically at a discount.

There are lots of examples of unregulated offerings that have a strong chance of increasing in value.

[Dorkie]

I have a pile of free burrito cards for Chipotle that never expire. As Chipotle raises prices, I make more profit.
My hoard of Forever stamps also keep increasing in value.
What you buy on Kickstarter is often the right to one of the first products produced, typically at a discount.

There are lots of examples of unregulated offerings that have a strong chance of increasing in value.

Sure, only if you have continuously good supply of people that have demand for your free burrito cards and Forever stamps that you can sell to.
And I am sure even then the potential of price increase of your cards and stamps has a limit, otherwise the demand will shift to alternative cards and stamps for the same utility use (i.e. email).
And make sure your cards and stamps have yearly ROI above inflation to have real investment value.
For investment purposes, I wouldn't subscribe to hype, speculation, and false hope.

[erwan]

Veritaseum is going to become full blown competition to these centralized exchanges. Veri will have all crypto assets, commodities, metals, tokenized real estate, art, stock markets, bond markets and everything else in between... tokenized and tradable peer to peer and many as redeemable tokens. Hit BTC are laughable at best. Use Ether Delta and Fork Delta. Decentralized exchanges are king.

[Milarepa0907]

Veritaseum is going to become full blown competition to these centralized exchanges. Veri will have all crypto assets, commodities, metals, tokenized real estate, art, stock markets, bond markets and everything else in between... tokenized and tradable peer to peer and many as redeemable tokens. Hit BTC are laughable at best. Use Ether Delta and Fork Delta. Decentralized exchanges are king.

Any issues to trade on Mercatox?

[irwanjabryg]

When veri was still listed on HitBTC, the spread between the buy and ask queue was much narrower than what it is now for Mercatox. The narrower the spread, the better it is for buyers and sellers. I surmise that the narrow spread is because of greater liquidity due to a greater number of traders on both sides of the trade. So, I would hope for veri to be listed on a centralised exchange with a good number of investors.

[CoinMLS]

Veritaseum is going to become full blown competition to these centralized exchanges. Veri will have all crypto assets, commodities, metals, tokenized real estate, art, stock markets, bond markets and everything else in between... tokenized and tradable peer to peer and many as redeemable tokens. Hit BTC are laughable at best. Use Ether Delta and Fork Delta. Decentralized exchanges are king.

Any issues to trade on Mercatox?

I've never had any issues.

[CoinMLS]

New article:
Could this be the end for stockbroking firms in Nigeria?

https://nairametrics.com/veritaseum-set-to-introduce-blockchain-into-stock-markets-in-africa/

[Ribak1992]

When veri was still listed on HitBTC, the spread between the buy and ask queue was much narrower than what it is now for Mercatox. The narrower the spread, the better it is for buyers and sellers. I surmise that the narrow spread is because of greater liquidity due to a greater number of traders on both sides of the trade. So, I would hope for veri to be listed on a centralised exchange with a good number of investors.

this is the biggest problem of such exchanges. there is not enough liquidity. and in order to improve the situation, we need several such exchanges. mercatox still looks better than average, but they need to add a market maker so that you can talk about normal trading.

[CoinMLS]

New video today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Gt-5Y-wwgM
Veritaseum Transforms Lagos Nigeria into a Real World Wakanda

[NightDream]

Reggie Middleton Pitches Veritaseum's P2P Capital Markets Application to 27 African Stock Exchanges
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBrPzxrBFN8&feature=youtu.be

Introducing the world of blockchain-based P2P Capital Markets to 27 of the largest stock and securities exchanges on the African continent at the African Securities Exchange Association annual conference in Lagos, Nigeria.

[irwanjabryg]

Veritaseum displays an inertia that is simply not present in any other ICO I am aware of. Selling gold at spot to joe public is a masterful marketing plan especially when costs are mitigated by bulk PM purchases.