Total newbie, bitcoin or litecoin most longterm profitable? safest bet?

[totalacedude]

Hi Guys

3rd attempt at posting due to laptop deleting the bloody thing on catching back buttons  

I am exited to be here (they say flattery gets you everywhere  )

I have a friend that has a water turbine with about 8kw of power that I can utilize onsite. (something about feed in tarrifs and doesn't get paid more if he sends it back to the grid! lucky him!)

so it hits me.... use the power and bit mine!

im looking to mine either bitcoins or litecoins but once I buy the hardware I can no longer retreat  

with the power 'kw' (and cash) available I am looking at buying :-
 5 x Antminer T9 - 12.5 TH/S (or s9 as T9 is not available) = approx. 55 TH/S = 9.67 BTC mined per yr (at current hash time etc)
or
 6 x Antminer L3+ 504MH/s = approx. 3000MH/s = 4800 LTC mined per yr (at current hash time etc)


both coins seem to have pros and cons

BITCOIN
Pros
well known
a lot of idiot guides to refer to
a stable currency seeming to be upward bound.

Cons
hash time is circa 5 weeks per coin (using above H/W)
will have to use a pool (cuts into payments)

LITECOIN
Pros
Smaller hash time (but smaller payments)
can go it alone (no pools)

cons
trends seem to show a low average LTC - $

can anyone give me their thoughts on which to go for... ?!?

looking at litecoin calculator online I had a small wee, todays rate would yield $70k per yr lolol
I have done some research and I want to play it safe on returns, even though BTC is high right now if it drops it seems you have a lot more to loose vs Lite coin.
 Lets do some very crude workings out.
BTC are currently $1300 a block it seems to be going up and up (lets hope it does) but lets air on the side of caution and looking at history im going to base my blocks on $700 seems fair?
again the same with litecoin, its at a whopping $15 right now but if I want to be cautious for payback I am going for lowest average of $2.5 per block, the trends seem to show an average of maybe $3-4 average lowest.
so...
BITCOIN  my equiptment  = 9.67 mined per yr @$700 = $6769 = £5229 vs £9788 at todays actual BTC rate ! (minus pooling fees etc)
LITECOIN my equiptment = 4800 mined per yr @$2.5  =$12000 = £9271 vs £55000 todays rate hahahahahah I wish  

So my thoughts are I could poss earn more with Bitcoin, but litecoin seems a safer bet but smaller payout.

what type of e currency did you guys go for?
what type of e currency would you go for at present time?
same with equiptment, whats the best,  fastest etc etc? (I hear the s9 runs hot.. bloody hot, why im after t9's)
whats the recommended processing power for main program that drives miners? would an old server be ok?
what kind of internet speed do I need?  3mb enough?
will the miners work if the pc and miners are cut offline?

Any input from you guys will be gladly taken. if you have any thoughts what so ever im all ears

a tech question now.
miners Ethernet connection is it advisable to use a separate network from miners to mining pc, then home network to mining pc for internet access! I only ask because I want to keep them unseen by hackers etc.

cheers for any help guys.

happy mining  

ian

[1714858402]

1714858402

[1714858402]

1714858402

[Unacceptable]

Dude go with vid cards & mine GPU only coins,lots to chose from & faster return than ASIC crap.

And 3 year warranty on most PC hardware,ASICS=90-180 days...............  

BTW,I use old dual core PCs with PCIE slots & 4 gig old ram (all free),just need vid cards & powersupplies new  

Uh,if you have an average firewall no one will hack you........and bandwidth usage is minimal

[totalacedude]

Hey,

Cheers for the quick reply...

I thought gpu mining was a lot slower than the units im looking into.

the Antminer L3+ is  504MH/s

ive got setious power (kw) that I can use I want to maximize dosh out of it... I don't mind the outlay!

[MohBTC]

From a Newbie to A Newbie follow the GPU advice. ASIC miners (for now) only implement SHA256 and Scrypt, the two hashing algorithms used for Bitcoin and Litecoin. These two markets are pretty well saturated with mining farms in countries with cheap electricity. For a starter you can buy a few GPUs ( if you have the money ) and mine the newer coins which use different hashing algos. The main pro is that GPUs can be configured to mine any new algo ( provided there is an available SW miner) so you can chase the most profitable coins. At the end of the day, if you got sick of mining, you still can sell your GPUs to the general public.

[totalacedude]

Hey,
cheers for the info, Yea its something I hadn't thought of... maybe worth a look. tbh my aim is to by (or cobble a rig together) and set it up and leave it running I wont be fannying about changing between (unless it becomes stupidly profitable to do so)

what kind of speeds can you get out of GPU mining? and what would you say is the next best newer coin to look into?

cheers

[philipma1957]

Hey,
cheers for the info, Yea its something I hadn't thought of... maybe worth a look. tbh my aim is to by (or cobble a rig together) and set it up and leave it running I wont be fannying about changing between (unless it becomes stupidly profitable to do so)

what kind of speeds can you get out of GPU mining? and what would you say is the next best newer coin to look into?

cheers

Ahhh a newbie with free power.

Okay  pc's built with gpu's  can mine ETH or ZEC or SKlein and a few others.

point the pc at nicehash it directly converts the coin into BTC and you are owning the most stable coin.

Here are 2 of my pc rigs one has 2 cards one has 4 cards    they mine 1700-1800h of zec  which is about 11-12 usd
this is about 900 watts of power
if you have 8000 watts and use 6300 of that or 7 six card rigs  you could be earning 80 usd per day

[totalacedude]

hahaha 
well that gobsmacked the fook out of me... im so way in over my head....

Right this isn't the easiest thing I thought it would be.... my original plan was to buy some LTC miners and leave un attended, but this has opened my eye totally. (yea just one eye. only cos im in too deep and the other eye is under the surface lol) 
so what would I need to buy if I went down the GPU / CPU path? more importunately im guessing its a lot more complicated...
do you have to keep hopping form currency to currency or is there a best of the bunch?
how do you work out the hash rate of GPUs etc etc
all very noob questions I know lol

thanks

[Inicnat]

Altcoins are better to mine nowadays. It's faster.

[MohBTC]

hahaha  
well that gobsmacked the fook out of me... im so way in over my head....

Right this isn't the easiest thing I thought it would be.... my original plan was to buy some LTC miners and leave un attended, but this has opened my eye totally. (yea just one eye. only cos im in too deep and the other eye is under the surface lol)  
so what would I need to buy if I went down the GPU / CPU path? more importunately im guessing its a lot more complicated...
do you have to keep hopping form currency to currency or is there a best of the bunch?
how do you work out the hash rate of GPUs etc etc
all very noob questions I know lol

thanks

If you don't want to bother yourself with too much details ( Sorry but some details are unavoidable ) you can buy a decent ready-made GPU mining rig for $4k or something like that. I guess that is comparable to the price of the ASIC miners you were planning to buy. Many of them come pre-configured and you just need to add your payout address. If you want to build your own rig, it can end up being cheaper and at least for me it is a nice learning experience if you like computer stuff. There is a ton of youtube videos that walk you through the details of building a rig.

[fanatic26]

you can buy a decent ready-made GPU mining rig for $4k or something like that.

a 6 card mining rig can be had for around $1400-1600 new, this is a crazy price.

If you dont want to mess around with building them yourself id say take a look at the PandaMiner. You pay a small premium for not having to do any of the manual labor yourself. They are an all in one altcoin rig that from what I have seen is a bit more stable than the standard home built altcoin rig. There are some threads on the forum that show this miner and its capabilities in great detail.

[philipma1957]

op   I have a series of threads in this section dating back to april last year

yeah  spend the hour to read them  you will see a  how 1 card rig grew

link to thread 1

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1429151.0

Link to thread 2

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1429151.0

link to thread 3

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1799555.0


link to thread 4

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1877588.0


there is a lot of info and you can see a lot of people are will willing to help each other.


yeah  I am diverse   I mine bitcoin direct  and 3 other coins.

I push  pc/gpus at you because real companies with decent warranties  sell them.

vs some very spotty asic builders.

lots of links in those four threads.  Shoot me a pm or two while you are at it if you don't understand something

[totalacedude]

Wow  Thanks guys!

Really wasn't expecting so much help and response.

Right, its not that I want to sit on my fat ar#e and do nothing , I like the idea of do it yourself, I am an engineer by trade. built many a pc.. you know my main put off for the cpu and gpu route is cooling. ive seen so many graphics cards fans fail, its like a never ending circle, the big plus about the asic system for me is just 2 fans.... me likes that a lot... (its always bloody fans that fail )

What kind of graphics card is best? I have already looked and the r9-290 is popular, but in the uk its about £300 yes I have a bit of cash but I still would like most bang for my buck (both buying hardware and hashing).
these 6 card systems you can make for circa $1600 what components are you using?
if i was to build my own, would it be better to use 3 x 4 card systems instead of 2 x 6 card (less heat per cm3)
if i was to build my own what difference will a decent cpu make? can I mine that too? what mainboard / processor you think i should go for? and the most important the GPU!
I just had a look at the panda miner £2300 just seems to much for the power it delivers!

@Philip lol had a heart attack when i saw the pages.... im working away atm so ill be reading that over the next few days... its that or eat eat eat lol. (thanks for the links) ill have a read and ask some less noob questions once digested.

[RentGPU]

Wow  Thanks guys!

Really wasn't expecting so much help and response.

Right, its not that I want to sit on my fat ar#e and do nothing , I like the idea of do it yourself, I am an engineer by trade. built many a pc.. you know my main put off for the cpu and gpu route is cooling. ive seen so many graphics cards fans fail, its like a never ending circle, the big plus about the asic system for me is just 2 fans.... me likes that a lot... (its always bloody fans that fail )

What kind of graphics card is best? I have already looked and the r9-290 is popular, but in the uk its about £300 yes I have a bit of cash but I still would like most bang for my buck (both buying hardware and hashing).
these 6 card systems you can make for circa $1600 what components are you using?
if i was to build my own, would it be better to use 3 x 4 card systems instead of 2 x 6 card (less heat per cm3)
if i was to build my own what difference will a decent cpu make? can I mine that too? what mainboard / processor you think i should go for? and the most important the GPU!
I just had a look at the panda miner £2300 just seems to much for the power it delivers!

@Philip lol had a heart attack when i saw the pages.... im working away atm so ill be reading that over the next few days... its that or eat eat eat lol. (thanks for the links) ill have a read and ask some less noob questions once digested.

Even with free power asics are big risk , you must know that asic builders and sellers don't care for thier users they only care for profits , if you buy thier asic now with x h/s speed , you can expect them tomorrow to release the 2x h/s asic if they find it more profitable to do , and you will be left with a brand new old machine have no other use and no one will be interested in buying it from you , gpu mining is far safer even with free power gpu mining is better than asics , go ahead man build some gpu rigs forget about those priceless asics.

[philipma1957]

Wow  Thanks guys!

Really wasn't expecting so much help and response.

Right, its not that I want to sit on my fat ar#e and do nothing , I like the idea of do it yourself, I am an engineer by trade. built many a pc.. you know my main put off for the cpu and gpu route is cooling. ive seen so many graphics cards fans fail, its like a never ending circle, the big plus about the asic system for me is just 2 fans.... me likes that a lot... (its always bloody fans that fail )

What kind of graphics card is best? I have already looked and the r9-290 is popular, but in the uk its about £300 yes I have a bit of cash but I still would like most bang for my buck (both buying hardware and hashing).
these 6 card systems you can make for circa $1600 what components are you using?
if i was to build my own, would it be better to use 3 x 4 card systems instead of 2 x 6 card (less heat per cm3)
if i was to build my own what difference will a decent cpu make? can I mine that too? what mainboard / processor you think i should go for? and the most important the GPU!
I just had a look at the panda miner £2300 just seems to much for the power it delivers!

@Philip lol had a heart attack when i saw the pages.... im working away atm so ill be reading that over the next few days... its that or eat eat eat lol. (thanks for the links) ill have a read and ask some less noob questions once digested.

there is a great piece of software smOS I will give you that link


with him it is amd cards

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1541084.0

but you can avoid windows completely

it would auto run rigs easy

you have the free power so don't rush  read the threads come back with questions as to what cards to get. etc


I had 5 of these at one time they were okay for eth mining

https://www.amazon.co.uk/PowerColor-PCI-E-Dragon-Single-Graphics/dp/B01N40WSHO/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8

that is a uk link

[Elder III]

Your new best friend is this website --- www.whattomine.com --- you can use their profit calculators for dozens of different altcoins.  NiceHash is a very easy to use, set and forget mining GUI that would be very recommended to start out with.

AMD Rx 470 4GB is probably the fastest ROI for mining Ethereum and NVIDIA GTX 1070 8GB is probably the fastest ROI for mining ZCash. < Those are the two most popular altcoins, but there are others worth mining too. In any case, Nicehash will pay you in Bitcoins and will auto switch to the most profitable mining all on it's own.

[Unacceptable]

Well,I get old PCs for free,sort through em & keep any mobo's with 16X PCIE slots (long slots).Most are single slot with maybe 1 or 2 1X PCIE (the small slots).

Most that do have at least a dual core CPU (more than enough for mining) & I put 4 gigs of RAM on the mobo (less is problematic for some reason).

Don't even need a PC case!!! I use little rubber pads for A/C systems something like these but I get generic from HVAC supply house for 30 cents each.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-A-C-Pump-Vibration-Pads-Dampener-2x2x7-8-Wagner-MP2E-Air-Conditioner-Isolation-/311848744580?hash=item489ba23684:g:ACMAAOSwARZXmA6R

I put several of em under the mobo to keep it off the surface so no shorts & helps a little in cooling.

If you can build your own PC,doing a small "farm" can be easy,cept for the software,Win7 works ok,but most are using Unbuntu,a linux type OS,for large mining rigs (3 or more cards per mobo).

I haven't had any luck using it myself,just a hardware guy 

I use Claymore's miner,easy & set & forget.

[shaninium]

Wow  Thanks guys!

Really wasn't expecting so much help and response.

Right, its not that I want to sit on my fat ar#e and do nothing , I like the idea of do it yourself, I am an engineer by trade. built many a pc.. you know my main put off for the cpu and gpu route is cooling. ive seen so many graphics cards fans fail, its like a never ending circle, the big plus about the asic system for me is just 2 fans.... me likes that a lot... (its always bloody fans that fail )

What kind of graphics card is best? I have already looked and the r9-290 is popular, but in the uk its about £300 yes I have a bit of cash but I still would like most bang for my buck (both buying hardware and hashing).
these 6 card systems you can make for circa $1600 what components are you using?
if i was to build my own, would it be better to use 3 x 4 card systems instead of 2 x 6 card (less heat per cm3)
if i was to build my own what difference will a decent cpu make? can I mine that too? what mainboard / processor you think i should go for? and the most important the GPU!
I just had a look at the panda miner £2300 just seems to much for the power it delivers!

@Philip lol had a heart attack when i saw the pages.... im working away atm so ill be reading that over the next few days... its that or eat eat eat lol. (thanks for the links) ill have a read and ask some less noob questions once digested.

Dude, a little warning, gpu mining is going to change bigtime in the next few months, firstly new amd card is coming out within 2 months called the vega it will prob blow away anything used to mine eth etc at the moment in efficiency and speed, that will send the difficulty up massively and undervalue the rx 470 , 480 range meaning you could buy them a lot cheaper in 2 months. Also by november its possible eth will switch to pos which means u wont be able to mine it with cards anymore. So imagine every single eth miner now having to switch to another gpu coin like zcash or monero. Their difficulty will skyrocket then which could increase their price, but not necessarily, so just thought id let you know, with free power you should be right but you may wannna wait 2 months to see what happens with vegas specs and cheaper outlaw on your rx470/480s. Or just avoid gpu mining completly , which id do, your a little late to the game for a gpu mining investment. Even if you make roi wat then? youll have outdated cards, and a overcrowded gpu mining global hashrate on every other gpu coin. Vega and eth pos could be the end of profitable gpu mining profitability next year..

[Unacceptable]

Wow  Thanks guys!

Really wasn't expecting so much help and response.

Right, its not that I want to sit on my fat ar#e and do nothing , I like the idea of do it yourself, I am an engineer by trade. built many a pc.. you know my main put off for the cpu and gpu route is cooling. ive seen so many graphics cards fans fail, its like a never ending circle, the big plus about the asic system for me is just 2 fans.... me likes that a lot... (its always bloody fans that fail )

What kind of graphics card is best? I have already looked and the r9-290 is popular, but in the uk its about £300 yes I have a bit of cash but I still would like most bang for my buck (both buying hardware and hashing).
these 6 card systems you can make for circa $1600 what components are you using?
if i was to build my own, would it be better to use 3 x 4 card systems instead of 2 x 6 card (less heat per cm3)
if i was to build my own what difference will a decent cpu make? can I mine that too? what mainboard / processor you think i should go for? and the most important the GPU!
I just had a look at the panda miner £2300 just seems to much for the power it delivers!

@Philip lol had a heart attack when i saw the pages.... im working away atm so ill be reading that over the next few days... its that or eat eat eat lol. (thanks for the links) ill have a read and ask some less noob questions once digested.

Dude, a little warning, gpu mining is going to change bigtime in the next few months, firstly new amd card is coming out within 2 months called the vega it will prob blow away anything used to mine eth etc at the moment in efficiency and speed, that will send the difficulty up massively and undervalue the rx 470 , 480 range meaning you could buy them a lot cheaper in 2 months. Also by november its possible eth will switch to pos which means u wont be able to mine it with cards anymore. So imagine every single eth miner now having to switch to another gpu coin like zcash or monero. Their difficulty will skyrocket then which could increase their price, but not necessarily, so just thought id let you know, with free power you should be right but you may wannna wait 2 months to see what happens with vegas specs and cheaper outlaw on your rx470/480s. Or just avoid gpu mining completly , which id do, your a little late to the game for a gpu mining investment. Even if you make roi wat then? youll have outdated cards, and a overcrowded gpu mining global hashrate on every other gpu coin. Vega and eth pos could be the end of profitable gpu mining profitability next year..

Dude,the new AMD cards weren't soo much faster that the older cards (300 $400 series) are THAT far outdated..........still better resale value than ASICs after one year..........

No matter if eth mining is over,GPU will still be better than any ASIC miner profit wise,cause ALL ASIC coins diff will keep rising forever by those makers of ASICs,not by "the people" 

GPU coins diff rise mostly by "the people" buying more cards,not as bad IMO.....at least "we" have a chance 

[totalacedude]

Guys,

Thanks for all the info so far, im going to sit back a bit while I read through all the pages of info given...

another quick question though.

Do these rigs need a lot of tinkering and attention lavishing on them once up and running?  as my main problem is they will be remote from my home (30 miles +) and I also work away for weeks on end. is there problems that you know of that keep arising etc etc.
I know a pc once set up can run and run.... but I keep hearing stories about overheating... In the UK its never that warm plus I have a 30,000 btu air conditioner I will hook up to ensure coolness  

Once ive read through everything im sure ill have a lot more questions

fook its just information overload atm and my brain hurts lol  

cheers  guys

[Unacceptable]

Guys,

Thanks for all the info so far, im going to sit back a bit while I read through all the pages of info given...

another quick question though.

Do these rigs need a lot of tinkering and attention lavishing on them once up and running?  as my main problem is they will be remote from my home (30 miles +) and I also work away for weeks on end. is there problems that you know of that keep arising etc etc.
I know a pc once set up can run and run.... but I keep hearing stories about overheating... In the UK its never that warm plus I have a 30,000 btu air conditioner I will hook up to ensure coolness  

Once ive read through everything im sure ill have a lot more questions

fook its just information overload atm and my brain hurts lol  

cheers  guys

The newer 300 & 400 series AMD cards are pretty much set & forget for me,I run 1 or 2 cards on each rig.5 cards total.

I can turn my monitor off as soon as I start my mining software to save power & the old monitor.

You can set up Teamviewer to remote in & restart or tweak as needed  

My 7970 though was a pain,every week it would lock up no matter drivers or watever,wierd.But mine are in my PC room so I just reboot & done.

Just watch them for an hour or so & set fan speed to keep your cards around 60c.No hotter than 70c is my limit.

Don't forget...get your wallets on a PC/laptop that does not surf the net (still connected to internet but no browser=no virus's)...that way no virus's can steal your coins.Only need about 200-320 gig for 10 different coin wallets.

And make copies of your dat files or keystroke file for Eth & keep them on several flashdrives or HDDs,I have had those drives go bad & without those files you will lose your wallet & coins that were in them