Let the Machines do the Work (The end of Slavery)

[FinShaggy]

Actually, the machines don't have to do ALL the work, only the work that nobody wants to do.

Exactly. That's a way better way to say what I've been trying to say. I've been listing specific JOBS that will still be left. But that is a better way to put it that incorporates everything.

[ktttn]

OP makes me   .
There are several ideas in play here. The human need to do things, Crowley's True Will, Kropotkin's Toiler, as sharply opposed to Marx's proletariat and infrastructure.
People should grow food (FUCK MONSANTO). If that's their bag.. Or do art, build things, join open sourcey guilds, trade cool junk ... whatever. I take it on very well backed up faith that all these things will happen without profit motive, because of the innate creative spark, specifically true will and the evolutionary principle of mutual aid.
Then we have the remainder of tasks. We can collectively call those uncreative, unrewarding tasks toil. Toil must be automated. It is imperative on a humanitarian level. This cannot be debated. The specific way to automate toil is a matter of creativity.
Trade IS the world going round, currency facilitates trade.
Understanding these ideas in the context of a pervasive Capitalist empire requires a lot of intellectual spinning what if backflips, but its worth it. It requires that the global south and the third world be allowed freedom and unfettered access to technology and education. It also requires that religion on a mammoth scale be taken over by sound and culturally generated philosophy.
Im not advocating global gentrification or universal affluence- these things ae overrated. I'm advocating that the Toiling class be elevated from very specific kinds of oppression into the status of a respected human person.

[myrkul]

And the difference about MY plan, is the government becomes a profitable entity that provides REAL service to its community, while working towards a fully paid-employed society.

Then maybe that should have been the focus of your post?

Just a thought.

[FinShaggy]

OP makes me   .
There are several ideas in play here. The human need to do things, Crowley's True Will, Kropotkin's Toiler, as sharply opposed to Marx's proletariat and infrastructure.
People should grow food (FUCK MONSANTO). If that's their bag.. Or do art, build things, join open sourcey guilds, trade cool junk ... whatever. I take it on very well backed up faith that all these things will happen without profit motive, because of the innate creative spark, specifically true will and the evolutionary principle of mutual aid.
Then we have the remainder of tasks. We can collectively call those uncreative, unrewarding tasks toil. Toil must be automated. It is imperative on a humanitarian level. This cannot be debated. The specific way to automate toil is a matter of creativity.
Trade IS the world going round, currency facilitates trade.
Understanding these ideas in the context of a pervasive Capitalist empire requires a lot of intellectual spinning what if backflips, but its worth it. It requires that the global south and the third world be allowed freedom and unfettered access to technology and education. It also requires that religion on a mammoth scale be taken over by sound and culturally generated philosophy.
Im not advocating global gentrification or universal affluence- these things ae overrated. I'm advocating that the Toiling class be elevated from very specific kinds of oppression into the status of a respected human person.

I agree. It shouldn't even be a debate. Labor should be automated and people should be left to do what they want. And for some people ranching and farming are goals, not tasks. So the world would still be ok.

And also agreed with globalization. We don't need a one world government and the UN should almost be disbanded. OR every country should be allowed to come in an take a seat and fight their stance.

[ktttn]

Let me clear a few things up for you. Robots are workers. The word even comes from the Czech word for worker. A bitcoin miner is a specialized type of desktop calculator. Not a worker. It generates two things: Bitcoins and heat. Robots make things.

Very good point. Let's say I take desktop printer (a fantastic example of a robot) and tell it to continuously print the blockchain.
Do you mean to imply that there is no work done until the ink hits the page? Let me remind you that all of this is binary code at its very heart- physical objects changing states, moving in sequence.

[Mike Christ]

We have festivals here all the time; they don't do any of those things.

Festivals DO do those things. They promote the small businesses and booster clubs in your community, while earning the city money through the sale of stall space. And giving exposure to local bands and artists.

You just don't SEE it.

Who exactly is paying for these festivals again?  We already have festivals; are you saying they should be mandatory?  If not, why bring it up?  If people want to have festivals, they'd have them.  They need no direction from any higher power/scripture to make these happen.

Also, sources?  I know it's a lot easier to just take everything you say as fact, but, if you could link a few articles saying that local bands + fun time = surge in business unrelated to either, that'd be super.

[FinShaggy]

And the difference about MY plan, is the government becomes a profitable entity that provides REAL service to its community, while working towards a fully paid-employed society.

Then maybe that should have been the focus of your post?

Just a thought.

That WAS the focus of my post, lol.

[Mike Christ]

I agree. It shouldn't even be a debate. Labor should be automated and people should be left to do what they want. And for some people ranching and farming are goals, not tasks. So the world would still be ok.

There is no debate on whether or not this is a good thing.  The debate revolves around how we're going to do it.  Please don't tell me you've still yet to see Zeitgeist; believe me, somebody's thought this up before.

[FinShaggy]

Let me clear a few things up for you. Robots are workers. The word even comes from the Czech word for worker. A bitcoin miner is a specialized type of desktop calculator. Not a worker. It generates two things: Bitcoins and heat. Robots make things.

Very good point. Let's say I take desktop printer (a fantastic example of a robot) and tell it to continuously print the blockchain.
Do you mean to imply that there is no work done until the ink hits the page? Let me remind you that all of this is binary code at its very heart- physical objects changing states, moving in sequence.

It does not just "generate" bitcoins from thin air, it earns them for doing digital labor.

If there weren't miners the work would be done by human coders, or some form of macros. Which all still do work.

[FinShaggy]

Who exactly is paying for these festivals again?  We already have festivals; are you saying they should be mandatory?  If not, why bring it up?  If people want to have festivals, they'd have them.  They need no direction from any higher power/scripture to make these happen.

Also, sources?  I know it's a lot easier to just take everything you say as fact, but, if you could link a few articles saying that local bands + fun time = surge in business unrelated to either, that'd be super.

No one person or the actual government has to pay for the festivals. You have a lot to learn.

As a government you plan an event. You find sponsors in the community that are related to the topic of the festival AND you sell space for stalls up to a year before the event even happens (as they do for the Denver 4/20 rally). That money funds the event, sales (like permits for glow stick sellers and cotton candy guys walking around) and more sponsors turn a profit.

[FinShaggy]

I agree. It shouldn't even be a debate. Labor should be automated and people should be left to do what they want. And for some people ranching and farming are goals, not tasks. So the world would still be ok.

There is no debate on whether or not this is a good thing.  The debate revolves around how we're going to do it.  Please don't tell me you've still yet to see Zeitgeist; believe me, somebody's thought this up before.

I've never seen zeitgeist. And I don't care if someone else thought of it first, they aren't here or on any other forum I'm on, so I haven't seen them talking about it, so I made my own discussions.

Nothing I've said has to do with being the "first". It's all just about how to get it done.

Which is what you JUST said the debate is supposed to be about.

[myrkul]

And the difference about MY plan, is the government becomes a profitable entity that provides REAL service to its community, while working towards a fully paid-employed society.

Then maybe that should have been the focus of your post?

Just a thought.

That WAS the focus of my post, lol.

Pity it was buried in all the bullshit about murals and festivals and myrtle trees.

[FinShaggy]

And the difference about MY plan, is the government becomes a profitable entity that provides REAL service to its community, while working towards a fully paid-employed society.

Then maybe that should have been the focus of your post?

Just a thought.

That WAS the focus of my post, lol.

Pity it was buried in all the bullshit about murals and festivals and myrtle trees.

Which is all completely relevant.

Too bad you have to cry so much because you read something.

[myrkul]

And the difference about MY plan, is the government becomes a profitable entity that provides REAL service to its community, while working towards a fully paid-employed society.

Then maybe that should have been the focus of your post?

Just a thought.

That WAS the focus of my post, lol.

Pity it was buried in all the bullshit about murals and festivals and myrtle trees.

Which is all completely relevant.

No.

[FinShaggy]

And the difference about MY plan, is the government becomes a profitable entity that provides REAL service to its community, while working towards a fully paid-employed society.

Then maybe that should have been the focus of your post?

Just a thought.

That WAS the focus of my post, lol.

Pity it was buried in all the bullshit about murals and festivals and myrtle trees.

Which is all completely relevant.

No.

Yes. I already explained how to the guy with the anime avatar. I know reading makes you cry, but if you did a little more of it you would see that everything is explained.

[myrkul]

And the difference about MY plan, is the government becomes a profitable entity that provides REAL service to its community, while working towards a fully paid-employed society.

Then maybe that should have been the focus of your post?

Just a thought.

That WAS the focus of my post, lol.

Pity it was buried in all the bullshit about murals and festivals and myrtle trees.

Which is all completely relevant.

No.

Yes. I already explained how to the guy with the anime avatar. I know reading makes you cry, but if you did a little more of it you would see that everything is explained.

Yes, I read your explanation. (His name is Mike, btw, you can find that right above the picture. I know paying attention makes your brain hurt, but if you do it, you don't look like an idiot)
That explanation did not tie in, in the least, to "Let the Machines do the Work." Come on, man, stay on topic.

[FinShaggy]

That explanation did not tie in, in the least, to "Let the Machines do the Work." Come on, man, stay on topic.

Yes it did. Try paying better attention when you read it this time, ass-hat. Or do you need me to get a quote and explain it for you?

[myrkul]

That explanation did not tie in, in the least, to "Let the Machines do the Work." Come on, man, stay on topic.

Yes it did. Try paying better attention when you read it this time, ass-hat. Or do you need me to get a quote and explain it for you?

Oh, please do. And insult me more. That makes your argument sound much more convincing.

[FinShaggy]

Oh, please do. And insult me more. That makes your argument sound much more convincing.

Insults and arguments?

First off it wasn't an insult it was a suggestion (pay more attention and read before replying, seriously).

And this isn't an argument. I'm simply displaying my stance, and explaining it in detail when asked. If there is an argument here, it's all on the other end.

[myrkul]

Oh, please do. And insult me more. That makes your argument sound much more convincing.

Insults and arguments?

First off it wasn't an insult it was a suggestion (pay more attention and read before replying, seriously).

"Ass-hat" isn't an insult? My, but your thanksgiving dinners must be colorful.

And this isn't an argument. I'm simply displaying my stance, and explaining it in detail when asked. If there is an argument here, it's all on the other end.

In other words, you are making an argument.

ar·gu·ment
[ahr-gyuh-muhnt]
noun
3. a process of reasoning; series of reasons: I couldn't follow his argument.
4. a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point: This is a strong argument in favor of her theory.

Try to keep up.