Received BFL Jalapeño Today!

[erk]

I don't see how BFL stopped him from buying 23 BTC at any time, can you please post where BFL forbids people from purchasing BTC once they purchase one of our products, which are sold for USD (Not BTC)?

You can't?  Oh, then your argument is fallacious.  Nice try at rationalizing a false premise, though.  Well, actually, no it's not.  It's pretty sophomoric and elementary.

The trolls have shifted their stance from "BFL has never shipped" to people could have done X with their pre-payment money.
 
In the real world people can wait for many months for a house to be built with a deposit much larger than the cost of a BFL device, and they are perfectly happy with that, as long as the builder doesn't go bust and they get their house in the end.

Why so many HW errors?

Certainly a problem there which requires investigating.

[Tamerz]

Why so many HW errors?

Good question. That doesn't seem right.

[grue]

I don't see how BFL stopped him from buying 23 BTC at any time, can you please post where BFL forbids people from purchasing BTC once they purchase one of our products, which are sold for USD (Not BTC)?

You can't?  Oh, then your argument is fallacious.  Nice try at rationalizing a false premise, though.  Well, actually, no it's not.  It's pretty sophomoric and elementary.

The trolls have shifted their stance from "BFL has never shipped" to people could have done X with their pre-payment money.
 
In the real world people can wait for many months for a house to be built with a deposit much larger than the cost of a BFL device, and they are perfectly happy with that, as long as the builder doesn't go bust and they get their house in the end.

see:

Hindsight my friend. BTC could have went to zero too. this is a weak argument.

The value and income of bitcoin mining devices is tied to the value of bitcoin. Unlike gpus, ASIC can't be resold for other purposes. Therefore, by buying a BFL ASIC, he was still at the whim of BTC prices.

when you're buying a mining device, you're essentially paying now to get bitcoins later.

[punin]

For a $149 investment it'll repay itself and make $1300 on top in one month of mining.

Think again. You paid about 23 BTC 10 months ago. You'll make .3 btc/day. Even if the difficulty doesn't skyrocket (which it will), you need more than 2 months to just break even. You aren't making any profit for a long time.

No, he paid in USD, just like everyone else.  Nice try, though.

How did he pay in USD when you were only accepting preorders in bitcoin through bitpay?

[PuertoLibre]

Um no,

It will be full of:

"WTF! My order number is <insert order number>. Mine is way below his!? Why hasn't mine already shipped?"

Order number doesn't say much anyway since it's the day BFL received full payment that counts, considering this any "normal" order that gets filled right now should have been paid with BTC. Since you like to bash BFL so much you can therefore go hunt for someone who received their day one pre-orders and paid with bank wire (iirc paypal wasn't available from the start). Let's see how it turns out!

What would be the point?

As soon as anyone else posts that they have recieved the lowest end product, other customers will jump on it and bemoan that they haven't received theirs. In the execution of their bemoaning they will give everyone watching plenty of "juicy details", hence there is no point to go fetch it. It will be there by morning on this, or any other thread.

[PuertoLibre]

Finally shipping it seems. Hopefully not too fast. Just fast enough to not be a scam but not fast enough to actually affect difficulty.  

@minterj If BTC went bust, his Jalapeno would also be worthless. The point is, the owner would already have in hand (23BTC) what the device is supposed to provide over the course of 6 months (assuming conservative rises in difficulty).

Actually, if he paid in BTC and BTC went down to 0.00001...BFL would have to buy "a whole lot" of Bitcoins for their refund.

As there are a finite supply of BitCoins, this might have been a problem. There are trillion of dollars. There aren't "that many" BitCoins.

[PuertoLibre]

For a $149 investment it'll repay itself and make $1300 on top in one month of mining.

Think again. You paid about 23 BTC 10 months ago. You'll make .3 btc/day. Even if the difficulty doesn't skyrocket (which it will), you need more than 2 months to just break even. You aren't making any profit for a long time.

No, he paid in USD, just like everyone else.  Nice try, though.

Meanwhile, if he bought BTC, he would have 23 BTC, right now. Nice try at post rationalizing though.

I don't see how BFL stopped him from buying 23 BTC at any time, can you please post where BFL forbids people from purchasing BTC once they purchase one of our products, which are sold for USD (Not BTC)?

You can't?  Oh, then your argument is fallacious.  Nice try at rationalizing a false premise, though.  Well, actually, no it's not.  It's pretty sophomoric and elementary.

That would be Economics 101 at a grade school level. Purchasing your product presents an "Opportunity Cost". If the customer buys from you, he cannot use those dollars (or BTC) elsewhere. So in the most limited sense, yes you did present a barrier to the buyer buying BTC.

You simply were simply a bad choice and opportunity being chosen. Everything is hindsight though, so I won't blame you or the customer for taking his chances and coming out burned.

I can only blame you for not delivering your product on time and within (a reasonable) schedule. Let the lawyers figure out if the customers incurred any loses due to your failure to deliver in a reasonable time frame.

(Technically, you took up about 1/100th of their lifetime in the waiting game...think about that for awhile.)

[PuertoLibre]

I don't see how BFL stopped him from buying 23 BTC at any time, can you please post where BFL forbids people from purchasing BTC once they purchase one of our products, which are sold for USD (Not BTC)?

You can't?  Oh, then your argument is fallacious.  Nice try at rationalizing a false premise, though.  Well, actually, no it's not.  It's pretty sophomoric and elementary.

The trolls have shifted their stance from "BFL has never shipped" to people could have done X with their pre-payment money.
 
In the real world people can wait for many months for a house to be built with a deposit much larger than the cost of a BFL device, and they are perfectly happy with that, as long as the builder doesn't go bust and they get their house in the end.

see:

Hindsight my friend. BTC could have went to zero too. this is a weak argument.

The value and income of bitcoin mining devices is tied to the value of bitcoin. Unlike gpus, ASIC can't be resold for other purposes. Therefore, by buying a BFL ASIC, he was still at the whim of BTC prices.

when you're buying a mining device, you're essentially paying now to get bitcoins later.

Spot on!

In this case BFL failed to deliver on time. Hence, you lost the opportunity to mine several (thousand) Bitcoins [and counting] if they had shipped when they were scheduled to ship.

[solareclipse64236]

hi have you tried mining litecoins with your jale?

how much is the hash rate?

<slow clap>
that was brilliant

WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY RETARD

[minternj]

For a $149 investment it'll repay itself and make $1300 on top in one month of mining.

Think again. You paid about 23 BTC 10 months ago. You'll make .3 btc/day. Even if the difficulty doesn't skyrocket (which it will), you need more than 2 months to just break even. You aren't making any profit for a long time.

No, he paid in USD, just like everyone else.  Nice try, though.

How did he pay in USD when you were only accepting preorders in bitcoin through bitpay?

Err , im no rocket sugeon-ist buy that would imply Bitpay exchanges to USD at time of purchase to give to the vendor.. Which is exactly what Bitpay does..

[HjerterEss]

I don't see how BFL stopped him from buying 23 BTC at any time, can you please post where BFL forbids people from purchasing BTC once they purchase one of our products, which are sold for USD (Not BTC)?

You can't?  Oh, then your argument is fallacious.  Nice try at rationalizing a false premise, though.  Well, actually, no it's not.  It's pretty sophomoric and elementary.

The trolls have shifted their stance from "BFL has never shipped" to people could have done X with their pre-payment money.
 
In the real world people can wait for many months for a house to be built with a deposit much larger than the cost of a BFL device, and they are perfectly happy with that, as long as the builder doesn't go bust and they get their house in the end.

see:

Hindsight my friend. BTC could have went to zero too. this is a weak argument.

The value and income of bitcoin mining devices is tied to the value of bitcoin. Unlike gpus, ASIC can't be resold for other purposes. Therefore, by buying a BFL ASIC, he was still at the whim of BTC prices.

when you're buying a mining device, you're essentially paying now to get bitcoins later.

Spot on!

In this case BFL failed to deliver on time. Hence, you lost the opportunity to mine several (thousand) Bitcoins [and counting] if they had shipped when they were scheduled to ship.

They can`t ship them out until they have mined enough money for themselves with the boards. "Testing units" according to them 

[-ck]

Why so many HW errors?

Good question. That doesn't seem right.

Please try cgminer. Read ASIC-README to get started since you need to install a different driver to run cgminer and avoid getting such terrible hardware error rates.

[Bakemono]

For a $149 investment it'll repay itself and make $1300 on top in one month of mining.

Think again. You paid about 23 BTC 10 months ago. You'll make .3 btc/day. Even if the difficulty doesn't skyrocket (which it will), you need more than 2 months to just break even. You aren't making any profit for a long time.

Scared is right to be happy because he invested 149$ in the bitcoin currency (through the jalapeno)
and his return will be 149+ $ (actually thousands of them).

Scared will be right to be happy that he invested in the bitcoin currency through the jalapeno
instead of directly buying bitcoins when his jalapeno will mine for him more than 23 BTC.

[PuertoLibre]

For a $149 investment it'll repay itself and make $1300 on top in one month of mining.

Think again. You paid about 23 BTC 10 months ago. You'll make .3 btc/day. Even if the difficulty doesn't skyrocket (which it will), you need more than 2 months to just break even. You aren't making any profit for a long time.

Scared is right to be happy because he invested 149$ in the bitcoin currency (through the jalapeno)
and his return will be 149+ $ (actually thousands of them).

Scared will be right to be happy that he invested in the bitcoin currency through the jalapeno
instead of directly buying bitcoins when his jalapeno will mine for him more than 23 BTC.

Will it?

23 BTC is now worth....3266.03226 USD (or about 22 jalepenos)

So...how about someone do some math on the difficulty going up with a constant period of adjustment. What will it take to get back the 23BTC?

[Malawi]

For a $149 investment it'll repay itself and make $1300 on top in one month of mining.

Think again. You paid about 23 BTC 10 months ago. You'll make .3 btc/day. Even if the difficulty doesn't skyrocket (which it will), you need more than 2 months to just break even. You aren't making any profit for a long time.

No, he paid in USD, just like everyone else.  Nice try, though.

How did he pay in USD when you were only accepting preorders in bitcoin through bitpay?

I am quite new at BTC, but AFAIK the price was in USD and BTC was just the means of paying those USD's. I guess that anyone who believed BTC would go up, would have bought some BTCs to replace the ones used to order their BFL gear.

If the jalapeno did cost $150, and is received today, it should repay itself in something like 4 days.

[Marrs]

No, he paid in USD, just like everyone else.  Nice try, though.

Meanwhile, if he bought BTC, he would have 23 BTC, right now. Nice try at post rationalizing though.

If you had bought the right lottery ticket, you could be a millionaire right now!

The price on BFL's website, and on the order invoices, is listed in USD.

If I order something from Europe that's listed in Euros, Visa will do the currency conversion without me having to bother with it, but as far as the European company is concerned, they're being paid in Euros not USD.

[Morblias]

For a $149 investment it'll repay itself and make $1300 on top in one month of mining.

Think again. You paid about 23 BTC 10 months ago. You'll make .3 btc/day. Even if the difficulty doesn't skyrocket (which it will), you need more than 2 months to just break even. You aren't making any profit for a long time.

No, he paid in USD, just like everyone else.  Nice try, though.

Meanwhile, if he bought BTC, he would have 23 BTC, right now. Nice try at post rationalizing though.

I don't see how BFL stopped him from buying 23 BTC at any time, can you please post where BFL forbids people from purchasing BTC once they purchase one of our products, which are sold for USD (Not BTC)?

You can't?  Oh, then your argument is fallacious.  Nice try at rationalizing a false premise, though.  Well, actually, no it's not.  It's pretty sophomoric and elementary.

I tried arguing this many times and finally gave up. People are too dumb to realize they could have paid in BTC, then immediately bought the BTC back. In fact, BitPay even offered to sell the BTC back to customers... If the value of 1 BTC was $1 right now, they would be demanding USD back and not BTC. I am pissed off I didn't buy BTC back after my ASIC pre-orders, but I do not blame BFL one bit, only myself. Oh well, 1 year from now I will be glad I am holding my BTC now

Edit: also, back on topic, grats on the jalapeno OP! Can't wait for the Single SCs to start shipping!

[runeks]

For a $149 investment it'll repay itself and make $1300 on top in one month of mining.

Think again. You paid about 23 BTC 10 months ago. You'll make .3 btc/day. Even if the difficulty doesn't skyrocket (which it will), you need more than 2 months to just break even. You aren't making any profit for a long time.

Scared is right to be happy because he invested 149$ in the bitcoin currency (through the jalapeno)
and his return will be 149+ $ (actually thousands of them).

Scared will be right to be happy that he invested in the bitcoin currency through the jalapeno
instead of directly buying bitcoins when his jalapeno will mine for him more than 23 BTC.

Will it?

23 BTC is now worth....3266.03226 USD (or about 22 jalepenos)

So...how about someone do some math on the difficulty going up with a constant period of adjustment. What will it take to get back the 23BTC?

I did some math on this when considering buying an ASICminer Blade (they just went for around 52 BTC per piece). The Blade is 10 GH/s, so to get the Jalapeño figures, just divide by 2-ish.

My calculations show that if difficulty rises 1% per day for the next 365 days, then at the end of those 365 days one will have mined 49.2 BTC (with a 10 GH/s Blade).
One would start out mining 0.5 BTC per day, and end up - after 365 days (under the above assumption) - mining only 0.0132 BTC per day.

The hash rate right now is around 93 TH/s. A 1% increase in hash rate per day would mean that the hash rate, at the end of those 365 days would be around 38 times what it is now, which would mean that on 2014-04-29 the hash rate will be 3504 TH/s.

The current 14-day average for the growth in network hash rate is around 1.2% per day (it has varied between 0.8% and 1.8% in the last two months). http://bitcoin.sipa.be/

Using the same figure (1% rise in hash rate per day) for this Jalapeño, it would take 167 days to mine 23 BTC. You'd start out mining 0.28 BTC per day (at difficulty 10,000,000), and end up (after the 167 days) mining 0.0526 BTC per day (at difficulty 52,933,877). After a year, you would have mined 27.5 BTC, and the difficulty would be 379,634,535.

But this assumes a constant rise in hash rate of 1% per day, so it really is just a thought experiment; no one knows how the hash rate will evolve.

[Cluster2k]

In the real world people can wait for many months for a house to be built with a deposit much larger than the cost of a BFL device, and they are perfectly happy with that, as long as the builder doesn't go bust and they get their house in the end.

In the real world, having just had a house built I know how this works.  The builder has compulsory insurance should they default before the house is finished.  The insurance company would pay and I would have an angry bank chasing the builder (the bank paid the money, not me).  In the real world we all know if BFL goes belly up before a customer's order is shipped there's basically nothing that can be done.  A BFL asset sale would maybe return 5c in every dollar.

I also had a due date for the house and it was finished two months ahead of schedule.  BFL has missed promised shipping dates since October 2012.

[rograz]

Um no,

It will be full of:

"WTF! My order number is <insert order number>. Mine is way below his!? Why hasn't mine already shipped?"

Order number doesn't say much anyway since it's the day BFL received full payment that counts, considering this any "normal" order that gets filled right now should have been paid with BTC. Since you like to bash BFL so much you can therefore go hunt for someone who received their day one pre-orders and paid with bank wire (iirc paypal wasn't available from the start). Let's see how it turns out!

What would be the point?

As soon as anyone else posts that they have recieved the lowest end product, other customers will jump on it and bemoan that they haven't received theirs. In the execution of their bemoaning they will give everyone watching plenty of "juicy details", hence there is no point to go fetch it. It will be there by morning on this, or any other thread.

Well if you did manage to find someone who who got their product before they should have (as in they ordered day one but BFL recieved payment later) You would have some actual FACTS to throw at BFL for once rather than your usual pointless mess you like to spew. Then again basing something on facts isn't really your expertise is it.

Just saying here's a chance to make sure BFL are sticking to their own set of rules for delivery, it would be easy enough to discover, do something useful for once!