BFL Wafer Broke?

[dykast]

A WHOLE HOUSE OF WAFFLES!!!

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSkzSPeR2t27RrTtSMnCkdkkFK6WewLj4T1m9TdPXvLM97AaqXn

[firefop]

The problem is, for everyone one of you that says NO WAY IN HELL there are three others that are refreshed by the fact that I don't cater to whiny customers, so the point is really moot. 

Great way to piss all over your customers, Josh.
It really condenses your past behaviour in one simple post.
Bravo.

The thing is: I'm a customer - and enjoy watching josh smack down the liars and the morons. Too often people in general (and companies chasing 'customer satisfaction') resort to giving hugs and wiping various orifices of their customers with soft tissue paper.

If more of us were honest and willing to be vocal about it the world wouldn't be in nearly the state that it's in.

Keep it up Josh.

[Xian01]

The thing is: I'm a customer - and enjoy watching josh smack down the liars and the morons. Too often people in general (and companies chasing 'customer satisfaction') resort to giving hugs and wiping various orifices of their customers with soft tissue paper.

 Some of us are not into being figuratively sodomized with thousands of our own dollars, this close to a possible shipping schedule.

If more of us were honest and willing to be vocal about it the world wouldn't be in nearly the state that it's in.
Keep it up Josh.

 Pray tell, what state are you talking about ?

[Schrankwand]

The problem is, for everyone one of you that says NO WAY IN HELL there are three others that are refreshed by the fact that I don't cater to whiny customers, so the point is really moot. 

Great way to piss all over your customers, Josh.
It really condenses your past behaviour in one simple post.
Bravo.

The thing is: I'm a customer - and enjoy watching josh smack down the liars and the morons. Too often people in general (and companies chasing 'customer satisfaction') resort to giving hugs and wiping various orifices of their customers with soft tissue paper.

If more of us were honest and willing to be vocal about it the world wouldn't be in nearly the state that it's in.

Keep it up Josh.

You see, that is true. There is however a difference between being tough and awesome and being an asshole.

Compare what Donald Trump does all day to what Josh did here. That is the difference. I think Josh has the potential, if he starts cranking the awesome up a little more.

[DataPlumber]

The problem is, for everyone one of you that says NO WAY IN HELL there are three others that are refreshed by the fact that I don't cater to whiny customers, so the point is really moot. 

Great way to piss all over your customers, Josh.
It really condenses your past behaviour in one simple post.
Bravo.

The thing is: I'm a customer - and enjoy watching josh smack down the liars and the morons. Too often people in general (and companies chasing 'customer satisfaction') resort to giving hugs and wiping various orifices of their customers with soft tissue paper.

If more of us were honest and willing to be vocal about it the world wouldn't be in nearly the state that it's in.

Keep it up Josh.

You see, that is true. There is however a difference between being tough and awesome and being an asshole.

Compare what Donald Trump does all day to what Josh did here. That is the difference. I think Josh has the potential, if he starts cranking the awesome up a little more.

So if I understand you correctly, it's ok to be an asshole, so long as the level of awesome is large enough to eclipse the level of asshole.  But if more asshole peeks out than can be effectively hidden by the awesome, it immediately becomes fail?

I believe this can be applied to other areas too, such as arrogance and competence, or annoying vs entertaining.

[rograz]

Your shill is showing.

Took longer than I expected for that particular ad hominem  to be flung, but still less than 24 hours.

Should I assume you're a shill for Avalon, then?  Or can we just not play that lame, stupid game..?

 I have 4 orders for BFL Single SC's @ 60GH/s. Ask me why I'm angry again.

I have orders for a similar amount but to me waffles are more important so can we please get back on topic, the waffle topic that is.

I wish I had some waffles, that picture earlier almost killed me from the lack of waffles in my house
I will be dreaming about waffles tonight, then just as I'm about to eat them someone is going to steal them from me, waffle nightmares.

[Xian01]

I have orders for a similar amount but to me waffles are more important so can we please get back on topic, the waffle topic that is.

[centove]

Your shill is showing.

Took longer than I expected for that particular ad hominem  to be flung, but still less than 24 hours.

Should I assume you're a shill for Avalon, then?  Or can we just not play that lame, stupid game..?

 I have 4 orders for BFL Single SC's @ 60GH/s. Ask me why I'm angry again.

I have orders for a similar amount but to me waffles are more important so can we please get back on topic, the waffle topic that is.

I wish I had some waffles, that picture earlier almost killed me from the lack of waffles in my house
I will be dreaming about waffles tonight, then just as I'm about to eat them someone is going to steal them from me, waffle nightmares.

Waffle!

[computerparts]

Back on topic.  There are no broken wafers.  I think OP somehow got confused with the wafer that was burned months ago for testing.

/thread

This can be closed now or moved to off topic since it's turned into another bfl troll/fanboy thread.

Then why did the status suddenly go from waiting on boards to waiting on the next batch of chips? Are the yields complete shit? Last I knew, the chips were fine and they were just waiting on boards. But now they're waiting for another batch of chips. What happened with the last batch?

[dykast]

Back on topic.  There are no broken wafers.  I think OP somehow got confused with the wafer that was burned months ago for testing.

/thread

This can be closed now or moved to off topic since it's turned into another bfl troll/fanboy thread.

Then why did the status suddenly go from waiting on boards to waiting on the next batch of chips? Are the yields complete shit? Last I knew, the chips were fine and they were just waiting on boards. But now they're waiting for another batch of chips. What happened with the last batch?

From the information I have seen, and yes it's confusing as all hell, so don't take this as some sort of definitive answer.  The chips that they did/do have have gone into/are going into the 5 gh machines.  I think in terms of the next "batch" they are talking about the "big" 75 wafer order.

This is from Josh from the shoutbox on 5/1

"I believe the boards are done, but we're waiting on the next set of chips. Should have that by the end of the week. Still will need to get the firmware to talk to the new boards, but that should be fairly trivial. Assuming no issues with the PCB on an electrical/physical level, we might be able to start shipment of LS/Singles next week."

Going by this and BFL time, i doubt we will see any little/big singles shipping for at least 3 weeks or more.


I only came into this thread because i knew there wasn't a broken wafer, and give people waffles.

[Tamerz]

OK, maybe my memory is not serving me well...

Didn't they basically "waste" a whole wafer testing when the testing rig didn't work? Then they had another wafer, which is probably where the ones made so far came from.

Pretty sure that is all they had?

[dykast]

OK, maybe my memory is not serving me well...

Didn't they basically "waste" a whole wafer testing when the testing rig didn't work? Then they had another wafer, which is probably where the ones made so far came from.

Pretty sure that is all they had?

Yes they "burned"(no clue wtf that actually means) their first wafer just to make sure the logic and cores worked properly. They(the Asic designers not BFL) setup a chip(s) in a test rig without bumping it.  There are some pictures out there showing the chip with wires and crap coming out of it.  (I might be using the wrong terminology for this stuff, please don't flame).  From what I remember that wafer had better results then the other chips that were bumped and put on the 5 gh boards/Luke's unit coming from the other wafer.

Again, this is just my understanding of the situation.  I just go by what I have read.

[bce]

Let's just hope that the wafer delivery truck doesn't get lost! 

This might help:

[Bitcoinorama]

The irony here is the slang verb to "waffle", in the UK, means to talk complete crap constantly.

If someone waffles all the time, they are talking sh*te.

Totally true!

[PuertoLibre]

Back on topic.  There are no broken wafers.  I think OP somehow got confused with the wafer that was burned months ago for testing.

/thread

This can be closed now or moved to off topic since it's turned into another bfl troll/fanboy thread.

Then why did the status suddenly go from waiting on boards to waiting on the next batch of chips? Are the yields complete shit? Last I knew, the chips were fine and they were just waiting on boards. But now they're waiting for another batch of chips. What happened with the last batch?

Josh ate the last batch of chips. There is a photo of the bags somewhere in Luke's visit. They are right next to the labs "assembly line".

Joking aside,
Josh also had several MiniRigs he said he had himself "pre-ordered" and intended to take from the 5 remaining wafers.

So it could be that perhaps he has taken them for himself and his customer must wait.


-------------------------

Right about now, you might think I am lying so I will post a link to reassure you it is the actual truth:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/1443-josh-taking-asics-batch-1-mine-his-own-mining-company.html

-------------------------

Okay, now that you know that little truth, comment on it?

Note: For those who don't know a MiniRig has 24 (old) Singles inside. That means it uses about 192chips.

With the redesign though, it will now probably use double that...or about 400. Probably.

With there being two that he wanted to take for himself before any customer took theirs...the quantity should be around 800. It could be more, as we do not know what the BFL plan is to reconstruct the Mini-Rigs in smaller sizes. They might use more chips? We don't know.

Each wafer only has (at best) 1100 chips. There were only 6 in the last batch. Out of those 6, 1 was used for manual testing and was therefore "burned".

[PuertoLibre]

Oh, and if anyone (newbies) are curious,

Josh recently said that they ran out of MiniRig boxes.

Here is my conundrum of the day....

--------------------------

BFL hasn't said they have shipped any MiniRig's to any of the customers....they have seemingly stopped shipping out the Jalepenos.

So why would they suddenly run out of cases if they haven't shipped out any?

Hmmm....makes one wonder, huh?

Edit: Did Josh already take his order out of the pile as he intended? (even though most customers objected)

[Schrankwand]

The problem is, for everyone one of you that says NO WAY IN HELL there are three others that are refreshed by the fact that I don't cater to whiny customers, so the point is really moot. 

Great way to piss all over your customers, Josh.
It really condenses your past behaviour in one simple post.
Bravo.

The thing is: I'm a customer - and enjoy watching josh smack down the liars and the morons. Too often people in general (and companies chasing 'customer satisfaction') resort to giving hugs and wiping various orifices of their customers with soft tissue paper.

If more of us were honest and willing to be vocal about it the world wouldn't be in nearly the state that it's in.

Keep it up Josh.

You see, that is true. There is however a difference between being tough and awesome and being an asshole.

Compare what Donald Trump does all day to what Josh did here. That is the difference. I think Josh has the potential, if he starts cranking the awesome up a little more.

So if I understand you correctly, it's ok to be an asshole, so long as the level of awesome is large enough to eclipse the level of asshole.  But if more asshole peeks out than can be effectively hidden by the awesome, it immediately becomes fail?

I believe this can be applied to other areas too, such as arrogance and competence, or annoying vs entertaining.

Yup, that is about it.

Look up George Carlin, the comedy genius. One of the main points though is that you are definitely going to either needs tons of money, social proof or success to pull it off.

Donald Trump has named his towers after himself and is a billionaire, he has proven himself in that market. He'd make an ass out of himself if he gave seminars on dog training or stuff like this. As an entrepreneur and financial advisor, he is gold and can push the envelope. Note that he never insults though. In our trainings, we say "tough on the issue, soft on the person." So you will never attack personality, calling people imbeciles and so on. Instead, you demonstrate anything they say, spin it far enough that it makes them look like an assclown and then come from a position of authority.  Rhetoric Jiujitsu

[computerparts]

Each wafer only has (at best) 1100 chips. There were only 6 in the last batch. Out of those 6, 1 was used for manual testing and was therefore "burned".

I haven't seen any info on what size of wafer they are using. Has it been posted anywhere that they yield only 1100 chips per wafer? They must be using a fairly small wafer. It should be far more than that given the 65nm process.

[PuertoLibre]

Each wafer only has (at best) 1100 chips. There were only 6 in the last batch. Out of those 6, 1 was used for manual testing and was therefore "burned".

I haven't seen any info on what size of wafer they are using.

300mm.

Has it been posted anywhere that they yield only 1100 chips per wafer?

That is the estimated maximum yield as revealed by Inaba. If there are any bad chips of course the yield per wafer will shrink lower than that. BFL has said they (if I recall correctly) that they find 80% yield to be within their expectations.

They must be using a fairly small wafer. It should be far more than that given the 65nm process.

<Shrug> Thats what BFL said. Other hardware folks have done the math and it seems to be spot on for their die size.

It's been discussed [previously] at length in this board.

[meowmeowbrowncow]

The problem is, for everyone one of you that says NO WAY IN HELL there are three others that are refreshed by the fact that I don't cater to whiny customers, so the point is really moot.  

Great way to piss all over your customers, Josh.
It really condenses your past behaviour in one simple post.
Bravo.

The thing is: I'm a customer - and enjoy watching josh smack down the liars and the morons. Too often people in general (and companies chasing 'customer satisfaction') resort to giving hugs and wiping various orifices of their customers with soft tissue paper.

If more of us were honest and willing to be vocal about it the world wouldn't be in nearly the state that it's in.

Keep it up Josh.

You see, that is true. There is however a difference between being tough and awesome and being an asshole.

Compare what Donald Trump does all day to what Josh did here. That is the difference. I think Josh has the potential, if he starts cranking the awesome up a little more.

So if I understand you correctly, it's ok to be an asshole, so long as the level of awesome is large enough to eclipse the level of asshole.  But if more asshole peeks out than can be effectively hidden by the awesome, it immediately becomes fail?

I believe this can be applied to other areas too, such as arrogance and competence, or annoying vs entertaining.

Yup, that is about it.

Look up George Carlin, the comedy genius. One of the main points though is that you are definitely going to either needs tons of money, social proof or success to pull it off.

Donald Trump has named his towers after himself and is a billionaire, he has proven himself in that market. He'd make an ass out of himself if he gave seminars on dog training or stuff like this. As an entrepreneur and financial advisor, he is gold and can push the envelope. Note that he never insults though. In our trainings, we say "tough on the issue, soft on the person." So you will never attack personality, calling people imbeciles and so on. Instead, you demonstrate anything they say, spin it far enough that it makes them look like an assclown and then come from a position of authority.  Rhetoric Jiujitsu

What?  Seriously?  Should we be comparing Josh Zerlan to the likes of someone that's actually truly successful like Donald Trump?  So, that a decent analogy of competence vs arrogance can be used?


I'm sorry.  I must have missed the part where BFL has exceeded customer expectations and is DOMINATING ASIC.  


Ummm, oh, right.  That isn't happening.  In fact, as a BFL customer the cockles of my heart are warmed by the fact that I will need to purchase two extra PSU's and some thicker AWG cables for my mining operation.  And, after the great power efficiency marketing effort by BFL no less.  Com'on.


In reality land - smart people see past rhetorical devices and realize them for what they are:  verbal manipulation.


It's total crap.  No average customer in their right mind would ever think Josh is a good representative of his company.


I just think all of the fanboys and apologists are really, truly, completely STRANGE.