If USD falls

[ladydark]

Like many powerful currencies in the past, USD may fall to ground too, my question is will that effect BTC value? Or is it independent of all other real world or non digital currencies of the world?

Definitely it will have effect over bitcoin value.Already USD is in its final stage as global reserve currency.If USD price falls,more investors would start selling dollars and would start to buy bitcoins which would increase bitcoin price more.

[hurain]

If USD falls it will probably be the fact that the Feds have become insolvent due to their high leverage or they need to print money to keep up. If that is the case, then economy will look to something that is scarce, like Gold or Bitcoin.

i think it is not so easy that USD will falls, i think it is become more stronger, in fact most of the countries are depending on USD. therefore in current position it is almost impossible that USD will fell down. i think it will remain for a long long time time tell all the people of the world start using bitcoin.

[Forester78]

If USD falls it will probably be the fact that the Feds have become insolvent due to their high leverage or they need to print money to keep up. If that is the case, then economy will look to something that is scarce, like Gold or Bitcoin.

i think it is not so easy that USD will falls, i think it is become more stronger, in fact most of the countries are depending on USD. therefore in current position it is almost impossible that USD will fell down. i think it will remain for a long long time time tell all the people of the world start using bitcoin.

I also do not believe that the dollar may fall. Now this seems unrealistic. There is not even a hint that the dollar may fall. The government's problems are not so global that one could think about the collapse.
But even if this event happens, people will look for an alternative. And it is likely that this will be a crypto currency

[Paid Piper]

If USD falls it will probably be the fact that the Feds have become insolvent due to their high leverage or they need to print money to keep up. If that is the case, then economy will look to something that is scarce, like Gold or Bitcoin.

i think it is not so easy that USD will falls, i think it is become more stronger, in fact most of the countries are depending on USD. therefore in current position it is almost impossible that USD will fell down. i think it will remain for a long long time time tell all the people of the world start using bitcoin.

I also do not believe that the dollar may fall. Now this seems unrealistic. There is not even a hint that the dollar may fall. The government's problems are not so global that one could think about the collapse.
But even if this event happens, people will look for an alternative. And it is likely that this will be a crypto currency

yes that is right. I think it is not possible that that bitcoin will fell down so much , and suppose it happened then it will create too much crises through out the world, but still I am confident that it is not so easy to happen.

[deisik]

Not that I especially want this, I speak English and Im rubbish at other languages but its likely dollar is over extended and like sterling will not be important any more [Sterling remains a 12% reserve currency roughly].  Its not going to be great ruin of all nations, USA will find a way and so will the world and Bitcoin is likely on its own course not tied to Washington DC economics

The history proves that doing that in a "ruinless" way is next to impossible

It took two major wars to install the American dollar as the world reserve currency. The first war (1914-1918) heavily undermined the power of the British pound (factually dethroned it), but it was only after the second war (1939-1945) that the US dollar got actually established as the supreme global currency. So it may take another devastating war to dethrone the dollar now. It is highly unlikely that the greenback is going to lose its influence without the world going through some catastrophic experience again given the military, economic, and technological muscle of Uncle Sam

[Vohoanghiep]

Like many powerful currencies in the past, USD may fall to ground too, my question is will that effect BTC value? Or is it independent of all other real world or non digital currencies of the world?

As the dollar, the world's currency falls, many people will invest in other currencies to avoid losses, Bitcoin is also a virtual currency, so surely there will be more people wishing to buy BTC. Make the price increase BTC high. But at the moment it is very hard for the dollar to be extremely stable and showing signs of improvement

[The_prodigy]

Like many powerful currencies in the past, USD may fall to ground too, my question is will that effect BTC value? Or is it independent of all other real world or non digital currencies of the world?

If usd falls then all the currencies of the world will also suffer in some form or extent. Us has trade to almost all the cou tries from the entire world. They also have shares or investments from almost all of the world. If usd falls and us weakens other countries might pounce on it having a very fluctuating stock market and a very hard to read economy may also contribute to a downfall of cryptocurrencies.

[foxbat]

Like many powerful currencies in the past, USD may fall to ground too, my question is will that effect BTC value? Or is it independent of all other real world or non digital currencies of the world?

Definitely it will have effect over bitcoin value.Already USD is in its final stage as global reserve currency.If USD price falls,more investors would start selling dollars and would start to buy bitcoins which would increase bitcoin price more.

I think bitcoin will not be affected by USD, in fact, the value of bitcoin depends entirely on the market, USD is just a means to evaluate the value of bitcoin.

[kekcoindev]

If (WHEN) USD falls (Plummets)... capital will fly to all sorts of alternative investments. Land, fine art, gold and Bitcoin will all undergo significant price rallies IMHO.

[Kaller]

Believe it or not, before USA was great in 20th century it was the little UK and sterling pound which was seen as the infallible world currency.   What would happen if every major business in the world did not have some sterling to buy goods with, surely we'd all fail.  
The British Empire the largest trading empire that ever existed did decline and cease (in ownership terms) not that long after the allies won (at great expense) and of course we now know the world carried on without the Brits fingers in every pot and trade of countries in every hemisphere.   Empires of colonial basis might not exist so much now but we still have not quite capitalism occuring but something relying on a great deal of military influence, some find this a positive but I also believe it will decline and transition.
    Not that I especially want this, I speak English and Im rubbish at other languages but its likely dollar is over extended and like sterling will not be important any more [Sterling remains a 12% reserve currency roughly].   Its not going to be great ruin of all nations, USA will find a way and so will the world and Bitcoin is likely on its own course not tied to Washington DC economics.
  Not even 1 nation should revolve around 1 city imo, I prefer the Swiss system.

You are right! Not long ago the entire world used the British Sterling (obviously the United States didn't exist back then). If the British Empire could lose their dominance in just a couple of centuries, than of course any empire could.

Most people don't know that USA has puppet states/colonies all over the world - not only the main country, but literally everywhere. They control more of the world than any other state has since the beginning of time. USA is the most dominant, largest empire in world history.

[mrayazgul]

United States government has prayed it pretty clear they're not going to let the US dollar drop that much. They're going to use bailiffs they're going to use every method possible to keep it at at least a certain number.

[kpcian]

since the USD is very much important in the monetary world so it is influential also, in the current world USD is using to measure many things such as oil, gas, gold and many precious things. if USD will fall then businesses sector will face many difficulties. basically, the USA will be fall in crisis. but for the time being everything will be in haphazard but after sometimes it will regain or replaced by any other currency. 

[STT]

You are right! Not long ago the entire world used the British Sterling (obviously the United States didn't exist back then). If the British Empire could lose their dominance in just a couple of centuries, than of course any empire could.

Most people don't know that USA has puppet states/colonies all over the world - not only the main country, but literally everywhere. They control more of the world than any other state has since the beginning of time. USA is the most dominant, largest empire in world history.

British empire is within the last 100 years, within living memory of a few people.   Its not quite ancient history.

Here we are before ww1:



The difference with USA today is the system is political not an empire or even the remnants of one.  Its voluntary that USA has a base in Qatar and also Saudi Arabia and Japan too.  And that Japan holds a trillion in US debt while possibly going broke in its own government debt and budget is just a maybe, nobody can force them to continue in support USA and they may not even be able.  Japan is a democratic country and even Qatar and the Saud cant guarantee they'll always continue in support.     The idea that USA somehow can force any of those countries or even more ridiculously invade is not even on the table.   So its not an empire, its a long standing economic system which to me clearly does favour USA a bit too much and is likely to change in future.    

If all the British commonwealth countries (roughly shown above) still held Sterling as their domestic currency that'd be about equivalent.  UK doesnt control any of those territories and it would have to be a beneficial system for them to continue to do that.
Whats most likely from here is the US dollar is replaced not by bitcoin or gold or another country but another political system.  A halfway, the best suggestion I heard was the SDR or the paper of IMF bank which is linked to UN and supported in theory by every country of the world.  
They even included China I believe.   I think Russia and China would prefer some system based closer to gold, both are major buyers but I dont know.    The bottom line is bitcoin is part of the change away from old paper to maybe new paper or another system, it isnt likely to fail due to one country in decline suffering from its own debt.
   None of that relates to bitcoin, if anything bitcoin relies on China for its system of value as most mining and purchasing is done there?  China is fixed to dollar by its government and bitcoin is unfixed, if dollar fails it will still leave Chinese citizens wanting to use global markets away from their own government.

I do hope bitcoin does not mimic the tricks and failings of paper but allows fair usage by every country of the world to do honest trade.   If bitcoin is part of a capitalist system it will improve the situation of every user and I do not see it failing vs the ending of a biased paper system with many flaws, there is no fixed link in that way.

[jaysabi]

Like many powerful currencies in the past, USD may fall to ground too, my question is will that effect BTC value? Or is it independent of all other real world or non digital currencies of the world?

If USD falls, that would be good news to bitcoin. It means the price of bitcoin will become much bigger than the USD. If one exchanges BTC to USD, you will be receiving much more than when USD is very strong.

It is not independent, the economic world affects each one factor playing in the field.

If bitcoin is only rising because the USD is falling, that's a wash. You're not getting richer, you're just keeping the same wealth that you had. You may get more dollars back when you convert the btc back to USD, but since the dollars have depreciated and made everything more expensive due to decreased purchasing power, you've only stayed even. In order to actually get richer holding btc, the dollar has to stay stable while btc rises.

[deisik]

As the saying goes, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater

But in this case this saying sort of works in reverse, i.e. instead of separating the baby from the water, you pour even more water unto it. Basically, you are equaling the world economic meltdown with the crash of the US dollar. While these two events are certainly intertwined (to a degree), I still wouldn't equal them. In other words, if the dollar slowly loses its grip on the world finances (just as it rose to prominence in the first place), it can ultimately disappear from the world economic arena altogether, and that would pass almost unnoticed. Obviously, no bitcoin will get hurt in the process

That's a fair distinction. If the dollar loses prominence over an extended period of time, it can disappear without much consequence at the end of the downward spiral. However, this would be a trend that plays out over decades. Any sudden fall would be too disruptive for bitcoin to survive. There has to be ample time for orderly transition in order for it not to be chaotic and disrupt the status quo.

Any sudden fall would be disruptive for the whole world

If we are to remain realists, there are not a lot of reasons why the dollar would crash all of a sudden, and most of these cases mean the meltdown of the American economy in the first place and the dollar going belly up due to that. Obviously, the collapse of the US economy will affect many countries, particularly those highly integrated with the US economy such as China and Japan. In short, Bitcoin's fate will be of no special interest to anyone if things start to develop this way

[jaysabi]

As the saying goes, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater

But in this case this saying sort of works in reverse, i.e. instead of separating the baby from the water, you pour even more water unto it. Basically, you are equaling the world economic meltdown with the crash of the US dollar. While these two events are certainly intertwined (to a degree), I still wouldn't equal them. In other words, if the dollar slowly loses its grip on the world finances (just as it rose to prominence in the first place), it can ultimately disappear from the world economic arena altogether, and that would pass almost unnoticed. Obviously, no bitcoin will get hurt in the process

That's a fair distinction. If the dollar loses prominence over an extended period of time, it can disappear without much consequence at the end of the downward spiral. However, this would be a trend that plays out over decades. Any sudden fall would be too disruptive for bitcoin to survive. There has to be ample time for orderly transition in order for it not to be chaotic and disrupt the status quo.

Any sudden fall would be disruptive for the whole world

If we are to remain realists, there are not a lot of reasons why the dollar would crash all of a sudden, and most of these cases mean the meltdown of the American economy in the first place and the dollar going belly up due to that. Obviously, the collapse of the US economy will affect many countries, particularly those highly integrated with the US economy such as China and Japan. In short, Bitcoin's fate will be of no special interest to anyone if things start to develop this way

Well that's been my whole point the whole time. And there's no one reason why the dollar would crash suddenly, but there are a lot of reasons why it could given the right circumstances, which are always unexpected, otherwise they could be planned for. There are plenty of powerful nations that have failed unexpectedly throughout history, that despite their enormous wealth and power, couldn't foresee or avoid their own decline. I don't see why America would be any different. The debt is a known issue, and it appears for now the most likely failure point. Default on the debt would tank the dollar, and despite this, nothing is done to address it.

[JohnBitCo]

You forget a few important things in your speech

More specifically, that Bitcoin is not valued just in the US dollars. It could indeed be priced mostly in dollars but the dollar just happens to be there, happens to be a universal yardstick. But if people start, for example, weighing gold in grams instead of ounces, gold won't lose value just because of that. That basically means that people which buy and sell bitcoins don't care much if Bitcoin price is denominated in dollars. They have their own currencies which are more important to them (including those you enumerated), and the dollar as such is pretty insignificant to these folks. So if there are more people involved in Bitcoin which are using these other currencies for their everyday activities, the failure of the dollar would mean nothing to them, nothing negative. To them, Bitcoin will be a separate currency in no way linked to the US dollar or the US economy unlike the stocks of the American companies. This is where you make a mistake by implicitly linking Bitcoin to Murika

[/img noped]

In short, Bitcoin is not some overpriced American stock

Stock has nothing to do with it, but it is overpriced in the sense that its value far outweighs its utility. But that's a separate point.

Bitcoin is denominated in dollars as well as other currencies, but if you're trying to sell the idea that the loss of the world's most stable currency from the market would mean "nothing negative" for the traders in every other currency, well that's a terrible position you've backed yourself into defending! Especially considering that it's the excess wealth created by our currently stable world economy that gives speculative assets their value. Guess what happens if everything goes to chaos... speculative assets crash. That's what the Great Depression and the Great Recession showed, as well as the Dotcom crash. All of it was speculation driven nonsense, and when the mania couldn't sustain the overpriced assets anymore, all that money that was propping up the speculative assets fled to safer assets. But I'm sure Bitcoin is the one speculative exception that would continue to thrive when a bulk of the buying pressure propping it up disappears, right? That's what you have to believe to argue from your side of it.

As the saying goes, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater

But in this case this saying sort of works in reverse, i.e. instead of separating the baby from the water, you pour even more water unto it. Basically, you are equaling the world economic meltdown with the crash of the US dollar. While these two events are certainly intertwined (to a degree), I still wouldn't equal them. In other words, if the dollar slowly loses its grip on the world finances (just as it rose to prominence in the first place), it can ultimately disappear from the world economic arena altogether, and that would pass almost unnoticed. Obviously, no bitcoin will get hurt in the process

That's a fair distinction. If the dollar loses prominence over an extended period of time, it can disappear without much consequence at the end of the downward spiral. However, this would be a trend that plays out over decades. Any sudden fall would be too disruptive for bitcoin to survive. There has to be ample time for orderly transition in order for it not to be chaotic and disrupt the status quo.

They do this so that the US public won't panic and do things that are just crazy and make things not work out. It's not about the actual US dollar anymore it's about the opinion of the United States public in regards to the US dollar.

[deisik]

As the saying goes, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater

But in this case this saying sort of works in reverse, i.e. instead of separating the baby from the water, you pour even more water unto it. Basically, you are equaling the world economic meltdown with the crash of the US dollar. While these two events are certainly intertwined (to a degree), I still wouldn't equal them. In other words, if the dollar slowly loses its grip on the world finances (just as it rose to prominence in the first place), it can ultimately disappear from the world economic arena altogether, and that would pass almost unnoticed. Obviously, no bitcoin will get hurt in the process

That's a fair distinction. If the dollar loses prominence over an extended period of time, it can disappear without much consequence at the end of the downward spiral. However, this would be a trend that plays out over decades. Any sudden fall would be too disruptive for bitcoin to survive. There has to be ample time for orderly transition in order for it not to be chaotic and disrupt the status quo.

Any sudden fall would be disruptive for the whole world

If we are to remain realists, there are not a lot of reasons why the dollar would crash all of a sudden, and most of these cases mean the meltdown of the American economy in the first place and the dollar going belly up due to that. Obviously, the collapse of the US economy will affect many countries, particularly those highly integrated with the US economy such as China and Japan. In short, Bitcoin's fate will be of no special interest to anyone if things start to develop this way

Well that's been my whole point the whole time. And there's no one reason why the dollar would crash suddenly, but there are a lot of reasons why it could given the right circumstances, which are always unexpected, otherwise they could be planned for. There are plenty of powerful nations that have failed unexpectedly throughout history, that despite their enormous wealth and power, couldn't foresee or avoid their own decline. I don't see why America would be any different. The debt is a known issue, and it appears for now the most likely failure point. Default on the debt would tank the dollar, and despite this, nothing is done to address it

And how do you imagine that?

How can the American government default on a debt which is denominated in the currency it happens to print? There is only one possible way, namely, via a deliberate act of sabotage. If we discard for a moment Bitcoin's internal issues that it currently faces and assume that it is pretty stable and consistent, then, as to me, in this very case specifically (i.e. intentional default) Bitcoin is set to rise monumentally against the dollar since people will massively dump the latter in favor of anything even remotely valuable (Bitcoin included)

[Superways]

As the saying goes, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater

But in this case this saying sort of works in reverse, i.e. instead of separating the baby from the water, you pour even more water unto it. Basically, you are equaling the world economic meltdown with the crash of the US dollar. While these two events are certainly intertwined (to a degree), I still wouldn't equal them. In other words, if the dollar slowly loses its grip on the world finances (just as it rose to prominence in the first place), it can ultimately disappear from the world economic arena altogether, and that would pass almost unnoticed. Obviously, no bitcoin will get hurt in the process

That's a fair distinction. If the dollar loses prominence over an extended period of time, it can disappear without much consequence at the end of the downward spiral. However, this would be a trend that plays out over decades. Any sudden fall would be too disruptive for bitcoin to survive. There has to be ample time for orderly transition in order for it not to be chaotic and disrupt the status quo.

Any sudden fall would be disruptive for the whole world

If we are to remain realists, there are not a lot of reasons why the dollar would crash all of a sudden, and most of these cases mean the meltdown of the American economy in the first place and the dollar going belly up due to that. Obviously, the collapse of the US economy will affect many countries, particularly those highly integrated with the US economy such as China and Japan. In short, Bitcoin's fate will be of no special interest to anyone if things start to develop this way

US economy will affect those countries which is fully supporting and depended on US economy. Benefit to those countries whom they are giving AIDS to countries they will easily pay that AIDS if US economy goes down. So yeah it can effect only those countries which is depended on a US economy.

[kelceyott]

Like many powerful currencies in the past, USD may fall to ground too, my question is will that effect BTC value? Or is it independent of all other real world or non digital currencies of the world?

Economic fluctuations are a frequent occurrence. In recent years, countries around the world economic crisis led to financial crisis. Should the value of the dollar also decline in the common currency in the world. When a bitcoin is sold out in dollars, if the dollar drops then the bitcoin also decreases. Money is always valuable.