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Author Topic: The Barry Silbert segwit2x agreement with >80% miner support.  (Read 119967 times)
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ComputerGenie
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May 25, 2017, 05:32:02 PM
 #301

...[logic]...[reason]...[understanding]...
Man, don't you know none of that sensible stuff has any place in an internet "debate"?  Tongue

If you have to ask "why?", you wouldn`t understand my answer.
Always be on the look out, because you never know when you'll be stalked by hit-men that eat nothing but cream cheese....
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May 25, 2017, 06:41:00 PM
 #302

Something has to happen soon though, my Wife is waiting still for a transaction to come from an exchange for the last three days now and even though she tried the viabtc accelerator it did not go through so this is very frustrating. So I am for Segwit if it is to make everything easier in evry day transactions.


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Sierra8561
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May 25, 2017, 06:41:30 PM
 #303

I'm 100% certain that only 1 of the 2 of us is all on about Blockstream.  Roll Eyes
I'm 100% certain that you can't hear the facts when you plug your ears like that and look for something mundane like the repetition of a company's name to talk about.

Why not try responding to the points given? Afraid that it'll be uncomfortable to learn how wrong you are?
It's impossible to respond because it's only in your head that what you said has anything to do with what I said.
I said they are getting paid.
You went on about some "conspiracy theory" nonsense.
Frankly, I couldn't care less who is paying them (or even why). The fact is that anyone getting paid any amount to do something gives that person a motivation to keep that something relevant. Specifically, in this case, the fact that Core devs get paid is it's own incentive for Core devs to fight to keep Core going.

You are absolutely right. Loyalty to those who sign your paycheck pays a big role.
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May 25, 2017, 06:42:29 PM
 #304

so is this ASICBOOST proof then? if so, why did Bitmain agree?

And why was Core not invited?  Huh

Core was invited, they chose not to attend.
ComputerGenie
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May 25, 2017, 06:43:01 PM
 #305

Something has to happen soon though, my Wife is waiting still for a transaction to come from an exchange for the last three days now...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F12lpqnug-0

If you have to ask "why?", you wouldn`t understand my answer.
Always be on the look out, because you never know when you'll be stalked by hit-men that eat nothing but cream cheese....
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May 25, 2017, 06:48:23 PM
 #306

If segwit is implemented without a blocksize increase. It won't ever happen.
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May 25, 2017, 07:16:01 PM
 #307

If segwit is implemented without a blocksize increase. It won't ever happen.

segwit is a block size increase. Just to say... Tongue

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ComputerGenie
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May 25, 2017, 07:26:49 PM
 #308

segwit is a block size increase. Just to say... Tongue
That's like putting a fold-up cot in the bathroom of a 2 bedroom house and calling it a 3 bedroom house.  Roll Eyes

If you have to ask "why?", you wouldn`t understand my answer.
Always be on the look out, because you never know when you'll be stalked by hit-men that eat nothing but cream cheese....
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May 25, 2017, 07:39:58 PM
 #309

I got a bad feeling about this.

Yeah... me too.... Just read about all that compatibility issues... and I can't sleep now. The last thing I want is something like Ethereum/Ethereum Classic Duo. We already have the altcoins such as Ripple and Dash to leech the Bitcoin users. I don't think that we need a "Bitcoin Classic" right now, which will create divisions among the Bitcoin enthusiasts.
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May 25, 2017, 07:53:31 PM
 #310

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/6dbsn8/bitfinex_will_list_bip148_chain_after_uasf/

mr bitfinex has confirmed that he'll list the uasf bitcoin probably as an alt.
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May 25, 2017, 08:00:37 PM
 #311

...mr bitfinex has confirmed that he'll list the uasf bitcoin probably as an alt.
Unsourced on reddit, so it must be true.  Roll Eyes

If you have to ask "why?", you wouldn`t understand my answer.
Always be on the look out, because you never know when you'll be stalked by hit-men that eat nothing but cream cheese....
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May 25, 2017, 08:01:17 PM
 #312

Like somebody told at the end of Consensus meeting that debate will propably never end
I think Seagweet will be implementated but where are Core devs

 
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May 25, 2017, 08:02:38 PM
 #313

Like somebody told at the end of Consensus meeting that debate will propably never end
I think Seagweet will be implementated but where are Core devs

they talk very loud with code. Segwit is their code.

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May 25, 2017, 09:46:18 PM
 #314

Both camps have clearly already decided on central planning to dictate or coerce whether it's going to be on-chain or off-chain scaling and we seemingly have a binary choice between the two stupid extremes.  Neither wants to let the market choose freely and decide for itself how best to grow.  I'd argue that both sides are spineless cowards in this regard.

So, everyone should just make their own personalised Bitcoin, with exactly the rules and limits they want, "because decentralise all the things" ? Roll Eyes


Do it. I'm sure everyone will be accepting DooMADCoin and CarltonCoin without question, they'll audit our code themselves, just a quick 5 minute job before they trade with us for the first time ever, and they'll keep their "money" with all the other IndividualCoins thye get from everyone else.

Not sure what tangent you've wandered off on now, but the crux of the matter was that one camp clearly pressurises on-chain tx, mostly to the exclusion of all else, and the other camp pressurises off-chain tx, mostly to the exclusion of all else.  Neither camp wants to consider a healthy mix between the two.  Both are willing to herd and funnel users into their desired and preempted growth ideal by either providing potentially too much or potentially too little space, respectively.  This is the inherent problem with a static blocksize.  In the act of choosing in advance a maximum amount of space to allow, you're also deciding in advance how the growth will occur, rather than allowing demand to speak for itself.  SegWit 1MB vs SegWit 2MB are both stupid answers to the problem.  Make it variable.

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Wind_FURY
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May 26, 2017, 02:20:28 AM
 #315

If segwit is implemented without a blocksize increase. It won't ever happen.

segwit is a block size increase. Just to say... Tongue

The Core developers should not have "marketed" it that way. If they have not done that, I believe the miners might have activated Segwit. Segwit really is an upgrade to make the protocol better and more robust and it is all done under the safety of a soft fork. All the other proposals involving a hard fork should be studied more.

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May 26, 2017, 03:27:04 AM
 #316

Hmm, i didn't saw any discussion about BU not a singel time...

BU is even more dead than i thought  Tongue
Even Roger Ver is part of the coup attempt by miners WITH segwit. BU was a distraction and should be forgotten. It's totally irrelevant to this next round of clashes.

ooorrr maybe not. Just now:


Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

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May 26, 2017, 03:29:58 AM
 #317

Hmm, i didn't saw any discussion about BU not a singel time...

BU is even more dead than i thought  Tongue
Even Roger Ver is part of the coup attempt by miners WITH segwit. BU was a distraction and should be forgotten. It's totally irrelevant to this next round of clashes.

ooorrr maybe not. Just now:


Same old mistake everyone keeps making. Variance. Exactly the same pools are signalling/flagging/fapping, whatever you want to call it, that have been for months now.

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May 26, 2017, 03:44:53 AM
 #318

BU is not even on the picture anymore. UASF has defeated BU, and if miners don't wake the fuck up and activate segwit before august 1, you know what's coming.

Sure.

50% of the validating wallet operators turn lemming and start rejecting everything that is not compliant with the User Activated Segwit Failure.
20% of the miners follow them.
Of the other 80% of the miners, 75% of them activate big blocks of some form or another.
That splits the other 25% in half - half go to UASF, the other half to big blocks.
The big block chain starts processing transactions at 2x (maybe 4x, maybe... what ever the demand is) the old rate.
The USAF chain continues processing transactions, but at half the old rate.
People cant get business done on the UASF chain.
People start abandoning the unusable UASF chain.
Miners follow.
Big blocks subsume 99% of all activity, and becomes unequivocally The Bitcoin.
The indignant hardcore 1% UASF'ers piddle onward in irrelevancy.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
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May 26, 2017, 05:05:11 AM
 #319

Not sure what tangent you've wandered off on now, but the crux of the matter was that one camp clearly pressurises on-chain tx, mostly to the exclusion of all else, and the other camp pressurises off-chain tx, mostly to the exclusion of all else.  Neither camp wants to consider a healthy mix between the two.  Both are willing to herd and funnel users into their desired and preempted growth ideal by either providing potentially too much or potentially too little space, respectively.  This is the inherent problem with a static blocksize.  In the act of choosing in advance a maximum amount of space to allow, you're also deciding in advance how the growth will occur, rather than allowing demand to speak for itself.  SegWit 1MB vs SegWit 2MB are both stupid answers to the problem.  Make it variable.

I think you're right, that if one had to re-design bitcoin into something with a 2-tier network, with an on chain settlement layer and an off-chain payment layer, that the settlement layer should never have a hard limit, because it is an element of trust and security.  In as much as "not getting your transaction through" is annoying with transactions as a scarce inelastic resource, it is not a security issue.  If you can't pay, you can't lose your ownership either.  If, however, *publishing potential tranactions* are the security element, they have to have a guarantee to be able to get published.  Any form of scarcity of transactions becomes then a security issue.  That doesn't mean that it has to be free, but the LN needs a guarantee that any settlement transaction is going to be included within N blocks where N is significantly lower than the "time-out" of the security.  If the LN has the ambition to become much bigger than the current bitcoin network, then the on chain capacity should *have the potential* to settle it entirely in N blocks, and even have a mechanism to guarantee that settlement.  

Otherwise, you have the equivalent of in total only 5 appointed judges that have to deal with all potential contract litigations, and only consider litigations when the problem is less than a week old.  If the number of contracts within these 5 judges' jurisdiction is one million, then as a contract subscriber, you are at the mercy of a judge having time next week to settle your problem if you're scammed.  If enough people get scammed, most scams will get through, because the judges can only settle so many cases per week, and all the others will never be treated.

Add to that the funny part that these judges are also responsible for judging parking tickets, the day that everybody gets scammed, there are also 5 million parking tickets to be settled.  (spam)

No, the LN without a mechanism of guarantee of settlement on chain within N blocks is outright dangerous.

That said, my question is: why on earth would one want to re-design bitcoin and not simply do this elsewhere on a different crypto currency, made for the purpose ?  After all, bitcoin was a system designed to have a single layer of settlement.  Why trying to modify the design of a car so that it can fly and why not design an air plane from scratch ?  People wanting to continue to use a car can do so with the system they used to ; people wanting to go to the new air plane, can switch and use air planes, no ?  I don't see why cars should be transformed in air planes.
dinofelis
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May 26, 2017, 05:06:39 AM
 #320

BU is not even on the picture anymore. UASF has defeated BU, and if miners don't wake the fuck up and activate segwit before august 1, you know what's coming.

Sure.

50% of the validating wallet operators turn lemming and start rejecting everything that is not compliant with the User Activated Segwit Failure.
20% of the miners follow them.
Of the other 80% of the miners, 75% of them activate big blocks of some form or another.
That splits the other 25% in half - half go to UASF, the other half to big blocks.
The big block chain starts processing transactions at 2x (maybe 4x, maybe... what ever the demand is) the old rate.
The USAF chain continues processing transactions, but at half the old rate.
People cant get business done on the UASF chain.
People start abandoning the unusable UASF chain.
Miners follow.
Big blocks subsume 99% of all activity, and becomes unequivocally The Bitcoin.
The indignant hardcore 1% UASF'ers piddle onward in irrelevancy.


Yes, this is so evidently true that it is scary to see the denial over it.
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