The Barry Silbert segwit2x agreement with >80% miner support.

[allinvain]

If anyone were to buy Bitcoin because they needed it, they would become the 1st person to ever do so.  

One word: drugs  

I'm not sure that illegal activity constitutes a need.  

Need can be interpreted in many ways. I'm sure if you ask them they'd say it's a "need"  . But I can also think of people seeking to avoid capital flow controls, people looking to make large or expensive purchases without leaving a trace in the fiat money space, people who need to make quick and timely international payment, etc. There is still a trace in the fiat money system for most of these use case scenarios though  But you are absolutely right, btc has been used as an investment vehicle/store of value for the most part. Once bitcoin has a stable circular economy than that will be the time where someone may absolutely need to buy btc to obtain a particular product or service which they cannot obtain through the fiat economy.

lol funny enough one case where one may absolutely need bitcoin is when bitmain sells miners strictly in btc (ie they do not accept wire payments as well).

[JessicaG]

If anyone were to buy Bitcoin because they needed it, they would become the 1st person to ever do so.  

One word: drugs  

I'm not sure that illegal activity constitutes a need.  

Need can be interpreted in many ways. I'm sure if you ask them they'd say it's a "need"  . But I can also think of people seeking to avoid capital flow controls, people looking to make large or expensive purchases without leaving a trace in the fiat money space, people who need to make quick and timely international payment, etc. There is still a trace in the fiat money system for most of these use case scenarios though  But you are absolutely right, btc has been used as an investment vehicle/store of value for the most part. Once bitcoin has a stable circular economy than that will be the time where someone may absolutely need to buy btc to obtain a particular product or service which they cannot obtain through the fiat economy.

lol funny enough one case where one may absolutely need bitcoin is when bitmain sells miners strictly in btc (ie they do not accept wire payments as well).

...

Duh. And there are also a bunch of gambling sites whom only accepted Bitcoin. So sometimes, yeah, I guess there is need for Bitcoins.

...



Can we go back on-topic again please? I really need that... 

[ComputerGenie]

...Can we go back on-topic again please? I really need that... 

If your needs revolve around the opinions and conversations of less than a dozen random people, you have issues, not needs. 

[allinvain]

Can we go back on-topic again please? I really need that... 

No amount of on-topic chatter by us will solve this problem, so just relax, grab a drink and enjoy the madness!

[JayJuanGee]

...I would really like to avoid an ETH - ETC scenario...

The entire fundamental logic structure is different here. This is about choosing the "best" path forward, that was about changing the entire premise of immutability (due to a non-protocol related incident).  

This is exactly true.

We definitely have to consider any possible forking in a context, and what is the level of disagreement and what is the subject matter of the disagreement.

No matter what, some folks are going to be motivated to take sides on one side or another concerning what they believe a fork on one side or another might represent - however, when there is actual economic value that is running through the nodes, that can cause a different actual action compared with words that are used (I am going to do this, versus what you actually end up doing when push comes to shove and your economic motivations are part of the material outcome).

[JayJuanGee]

If anyone were to buy Bitcoin because they needed it, they would become the 1st person to ever do so.  

One word: drugs  

I'm not sure that illegal activity constitutes a need.  

Need can be interpreted in many ways. I'm sure if you ask them they'd say it's a "need"  . But I can also think of people seeking to avoid capital flow controls, people looking to make large or expensive purchases without leaving a trace in the fiat money space, people who need to make quick and timely international payment, etc. There is still a trace in the fiat money system for most of these use case scenarios though  But you are absolutely right, btc has been used as an investment vehicle/store of value for the most part. Once bitcoin has a stable circular economy than that will be the time where someone may absolutely need to buy btc to obtain a particular product or service which they cannot obtain through the fiat economy.

lol funny enough one case where one may absolutely need bitcoin is when bitmain sells miners strictly in btc (ie they do not accept wire payments as well).

...

Duh. And there are also a bunch of gambling sites whom only accepted Bitcoin. So sometimes, yeah, I guess there is need for Bitcoins.

...



Can we go back on-topic again please? I really need that... 

These are great mentionings (above)_ of various bitcoin needs that are legal in some jurisdictions and illegal in other jurisdictions, and also developing... so yeah, we may not had any needs to illegally gamble or illegally take drugs or illegaly traffic our money across random geographical or political borders - but these "needs" evolve - and cause bitcoin to be more important and more valuable - whether it forks or not and whether it holds value in the short term or not.

Strictly reading, are we on topic?  maybe not - but there can be a lot of usefulness to meander into these quasi-relevant considerations to speculate the extent to which gamesmanship and propaganda might interfere with present or future value and whether our speculation about use cases are going to be interfered with by the seemingly disingenuous gamesmanship of the forking threateners.

[allinvain]

Well indeed it seems some of you have snapped up cheap coins cause price recovered a bit. If it stays above 2K for a while I'd be happy with that

[classicsucks]

Well indeed it seems some of you have snapped up cheap coins cause price recovered a bit. If it stays above 2K for a while I'd be happy with that

It's a classic bull trap, there's plenty of room for more downside...

Just wait til 20% of miner hashpower pulls out of Segwit2x...

[hv_]

Well indeed it seems some of you have snapped up cheap coins cause price recovered a bit. If it stays above 2K for a while I'd be happy with that

It's a classic bull trap, there's plenty of room for more downside...

Just wait til 20% of miner hashpower pulls out of Segwit2x...

And the 80 %  dedicate some hashpower to attack the minority chain ... is the difficulty adjusted quicker for the UASF berserkers? Or do they finally accept the SW in the SW2x ? (Shit the 20% could be the SW refusers ?)


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg20185001#msg20185001

[JayJuanGee]

Well indeed it seems some of you have snapped up cheap coins cause price recovered a bit. If it stays above 2K for a while I'd be happy with that

It's a classic bull trap, there's plenty of room for more downside...

Just wait til 20% of miner hashpower pulls out of Segwit2x...

And the 80 %  dedicate some hashpower to attack the minority chain ... is the difficulty adjusted quicker for the UASF berserkers? Or do they finally accept the SW in the SW2x ? (Shit the 20% could be the SW refusers ?)


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg20185001#msg20185001

I kind of doubt that we are going to get such a nice and clean resolution.

Wouldn't it be nice if Jihan and his follower, Roger Ver and his followers and Craig Wright and his followers all forked off?  How much mining power and economic nodes would they take with them?  Maybe coinbase?  I don't think coinbase is that dumb, but who knows?

[hv_]

Well indeed it seems some of you have snapped up cheap coins cause price recovered a bit. If it stays above 2K for a while I'd be happy with that

It's a classic bull trap, there's plenty of room for more downside...

Just wait til 20% of miner hashpower pulls out of Segwit2x...

And the 80 %  dedicate some hashpower to attack the minority chain ... is the difficulty adjusted quicker for the UASF berserkers? Or do they finally accept the SW in the SW2x ? (Shit the 20% could be the SW refusers ?)


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg20185001#msg20185001

I kind of doubt that we are going to get such a nice and clean resolution.

Wouldn't it be nice if Jihan and his follower, Roger Ver and his followers and Craig Wright and his followers all forked off?  How much mining power and economic nodes would they take with them?  Maybe coinbase?  I don't think coinbase is that dumb, but who knows?

Bitcoin is based on PoW ?

What do you think is easier:  

Tell few people to just fork off

or

Get them all to consensus?


What side are you on ?

Proof

[allinvain]

Well indeed it seems some of you have snapped up cheap coins cause price recovered a bit. If it stays above 2K for a while I'd be happy with that

It's a classic bull trap, there's plenty of room for more downside...

Just wait til 20% of miner hashpower pulls out of Segwit2x...

And the 80 %  dedicate some hashpower to attack the minority chain ... is the difficulty adjusted quicker for the UASF berserkers? Or do they finally accept the SW in the SW2x ? (Shit the 20% could be the SW refusers ?)


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg20185001#msg20185001

I kind of doubt that we are going to get such a nice and clean resolution.

Wouldn't it be nice if Jihan and his follower, Roger Ver and his followers and Craig Wright and his followers all forked off?  How much mining power and economic nodes would they take with them?  Maybe coinbase?  I don't think coinbase is that dumb, but who knows?

They would take a lot of mining power with them, but not so sure about economic nodes. No way that Coinbase would go with the least used blockchain - their entire business model is based on trading volume. Roger Ver on the other hand would just take a boat load of bitcoins with him (technically he would still have the same on both chains) and may potentially dump them on one chain to crash the price? (would be a big gamble and stupid move but hey he could theoretically do it if he wanted to be spiteful). I'd be interested to see in which direction some of the other Chinese mining pools not associated with Bitmain would go. Or are they all controlled by Bitmain? Where is that tin foil hat? Have I misplaced it lool 

[JayJuanGee]

Well indeed it seems some of you have snapped up cheap coins cause price recovered a bit. If it stays above 2K for a while I'd be happy with that

It's a classic bull trap, there's plenty of room for more downside...

Just wait til 20% of miner hashpower pulls out of Segwit2x...

And the 80 %  dedicate some hashpower to attack the minority chain ... is the difficulty adjusted quicker for the UASF berserkers? Or do they finally accept the SW in the SW2x ? (Shit the 20% could be the SW refusers ?)


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg20185001#msg20185001

I kind of doubt that we are going to get such a nice and clean resolution.

Wouldn't it be nice if Jihan and his follower, Roger Ver and his followers and Craig Wright and his followers all forked off?  How much mining power and economic nodes would they take with them?  Maybe coinbase?  I don't think coinbase is that dumb, but who knows?

Bitcoin is based on PoW ?

What do you think is easier:  

Tell few people to just fork off

or

Get them all to consensus?


What side are you on ?

Proof

There are various ones who have been threatening to fork bitcoin for nearly two years, so I don't know about sides, but it seems to be kind of problematic.

Of course, if they fork, then they prefer that the majority of economic nodes and users will follow them.

This is not about me.  I am just making a statement that maybe it could be better if they fork, because they do not want to even attempt to work within existing systems and constantly engaged in threats and gamesmanship that attempt to exploit ways to scare people into their view of an easier and moldable bitcoin that attempts to compete with credit cards and other payment systems.

[gmaxwell]

Roger Ver on the other hand would just take a boat load of bitcoins with him (technically he would still have the same on both chains) and may potentially dump them on one chain to crash the price? (would be a big gamble and stupid move but hey he could theoretically do it if he wanted to be spiteful).

In many ways this would be the opposite of spite... it would remove him from the picture, which would be an ongoing benefit because he sure seems to hate the system as it is now, and would put less expensive coins in the hands of more people that believe in it.  I think that would be a pretty good return for a brief period of market volatility.

[ComputerGenie]

...because they do not want to even attempt to work within existing systems and constantly engaged in threats and gamesmanship that attempt to exploit ways to scare people into their view....

That comes from all sides (even the pro-Core).
Do you* think it's a coincidence that the whole "Antbleed" thing (which no one thought was a thing when it was in the bajillion running S7s) became a thing in April (when all of this started "heating up")?
Do you think it's a coincidence that the whole "covert ASICBoost" thing became a thing around the same time (when all of this started "heating up")?
Do you think it's a coincidence that no one worried about the whole "covert ASICBoost" thing when Bitmain introduced the S9 and, literally, advertised that S9s were "ASICBoost ready"?
Do you think it's a coincidence that now that certain parties need to make Bitmain out to be the "bad guy", you can't read a thread without seeing "Bitmain ....covert ASICBoost"?
Do you think it's a coincidence that not one pool, other than Bitmain, has been accused of "covert ASICBoost" (even though Bitmain's patent covers production and anyone can purchase pool-side usage rights and perform "covert ASICBoost")?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro-Bitmain; however, I am pro-honesty and it's honestly disingenuous to ignore the fact that Bitmain has been the target of well timed, well planned "gamesmanship" attacks from the Core/pro-Core end of the spectrum.



*you in the generic sense - meaning any reader

[hv_]

Well indeed it seems some of you have snapped up cheap coins cause price recovered a bit. If it stays above 2K for a while I'd be happy with that

It's a classic bull trap, there's plenty of room for more downside...

Just wait til 20% of miner hashpower pulls out of Segwit2x...

And the 80 %  dedicate some hashpower to attack the minority chain ... is the difficulty adjusted quicker for the UASF berserkers? Or do they finally accept the SW in the SW2x ? (Shit the 20% could be the SW refusers ?)


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg20185001#msg20185001

I kind of doubt that we are going to get such a nice and clean resolution.

Wouldn't it be nice if Jihan and his follower, Roger Ver and his followers and Craig Wright and his followers all forked off?  How much mining power and economic nodes would they take with them?  Maybe coinbase?  I don't think coinbase is that dumb, but who knows?

Bitcoin is based on PoW ?

What do you think is easier:  

Tell few people to just fork off

or

Get them all to consensus?


What side are you on ?

Proof

There are various ones who have been threatening to fork bitcoin for nearly two years, so I don't know about sides, but it seems to be kind of problematic.

Of course, if they fork, then they prefer that the majority of economic nodes and users will follow them.

This is not about me.  I am just making a statement that maybe it could be better if they fork, because they do not want to even attempt to work within existing systems and constantly engaged in threats and gamesmanship that attempt to exploit ways to scare people into their view of an easier and moldable bitcoin that attempts to compete with credit cards and other payment systems.

Not so sure.  These guys you named they try hard to stay on Satoshi's bitcoin. Or do you speak of buddies building alts, ICOs or side-chains ?

[allinvain]

In many ways this would be the opposite of spite... it would remove him from the picture, which would be an ongoing benefit because he sure seems to hate the system as it is now, and would put less expensive coins in the hands of more people that believe in it.  I think that would be a pretty good return for a brief period of market volatility.

Hmm, yeah you may be right, it could be a blessing if he showed himself the door. I watched an interview with him on YouTube and his entire reason for being willing to risk a split is that the current blocks are full (we all know now that this is no longer the case) and because of that future growth in value and adoption is stifled. He wants bitcoin to gain an even wider userbase _at all costs_. He strikes me as the kind of guy that would play brinkmanship with bitcoin just to get his way. But he thinks the only path forward is an increase in block size and that's all that is necessary.

Doesn't this guy have like hundreds of thousands of BTC? If he dumped he would cause a volatility tsunami! But as you said it would be raining cheap coins on buyers!

@ComputerGenie

Hey you think that maybe (and this is wild speculation here) Bitmain has been infiltrated by the CCP and they've been told to do what they can to bring bitcoin under the control of the party. The West on the other hand could be pressuring the core devs to do what they can to push out the Chinese influence on the network. There would be hidden undercurrents in this whole tug of war game in the scaling debate. Or maybe I should stop reading Zero Hedge  

[ComputerGenie]

...@ComputerGenie

Hey you think that maybe (and this is wild speculation here) Bitmain has been infiltrated by the CCP and they've been told to do what they can to bring bitcoin under the control of the party. The West on the other hand could be pressuring the core devs to do what they can to push out the Chinese influence on the network. There would be hidden undercurrents in this whole tug of war game in the scaling debate. Or maybe I should stop reading Zero Hedge  

I think that you could be right about the last sentence; however, everything we hear about "Chinese this" and "Chinese that" is at best speculation and at worst more gamesmanship to push agendas (most likely the latter). :/


It all reminds me of:
https://youtu.be/maLIXQLxvvA

[hv_]

Stolen work:

[BitcoinNewsMagazine]

Bitmain tweeted that all their mining pools will switch over to btc1 today. You can follow progress at bitnodes for Satoshi:1.14.3 (beta) or Satoshi:1.14.4 production build.