Do we want to work with money regulators, or keep Bitcoin unregulated?

[Snail2]

George Orwell, 1984

[LiteCoinGuy]

In the last round of grant proposals at one point Gavin suggested someone submit a grant for a trust-free mixer service to help people make the coins in their wallet more anonymous by mixing them with a large pool of other users. I asked Gavin about that later, and he said the foundation lawyers nixed the idea because efforts to make Bitcoin users more anonymous could be seen to be aiding money laundering, especially if the foundation itself was paying for development and to run the servers.

We can work with regulators to make sure Bitcoin is acceptable to them. For instance we can ensure that it remains possible to track the flow of money through Bitcoin. We can also ensure that there are options if certain funds need to be frozen and blacklisted, due to fraud, theft, or because they encode illegal data. We can work with them to find ways to apply AML rules to Bitcoin transactions and to the exchanges. There are ways to put taxation into Bitcoin itself, so that taxes are automatically applied when a transaction is made. Maybe even one day we'll be required to prevent dangerous levels of deflation. A lot of these changes are technical, such as improving scalability so transactions can remain on the blockchain, developing P2P blacklist technologies, and preventing deflation.

Sounds freakin' dandy. Count me out if it goes this direction.

Maybe litecoin is looking better and better? Bitcoin is decentralised and distributed. Putting it into the hands of a few people is opposite to the original intent.

/sign

[aigeezer]

In the last round of grant proposals at one point Gavin suggested someone submit a grant for a trust-free mixer service to help people make the coins in their wallet more anonymous by mixing them with a large pool of other users. I asked Gavin about that later, and he said the foundation lawyers nixed the idea because efforts to make Bitcoin users more anonymous could be seen to be aiding money laundering, especially if the foundation itself was paying for development and to run the servers.

We can work with regulators to make sure Bitcoin is acceptable to them. For instance we can ensure that it remains possible to track the flow of money through Bitcoin. We can also ensure that there are options if certain funds need to be frozen and blacklisted, due to fraud, theft, or because they encode illegal data. We can work with them to find ways to apply AML rules to Bitcoin transactions and to the exchanges. There are ways to put taxation into Bitcoin itself, so that taxes are automatically applied when a transaction is made. Maybe even one day we'll be required to prevent dangerous levels of deflation. A lot of these changes are technical, such as improving scalability so transactions can remain on the blockchain, developing P2P blacklist technologies, and preventing deflation.

Sounds freakin' dandy. Count me out if it goes this direction.

Attempts to appease "the authorities" are taking a predictable turn: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241302.0

[AquaticBob]

I'd rather bitcoin stay unregulated.

[QuestionAuthority]

I'd rather bitcoin stay unregulated.

I'd rather Megan Fox blow me than spank it myself but just like passing regulations that's outside my control.

[td services]

Attempts to appease "the authorities" are taking a predictable turn: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241302.0

Doug Jackson of e-gold bent over forwards, complying with every request, and still got it hard with no grease.

There is no negotiating with terrorists.

[bitlizard]

Please help a non tech person understand the following:

"We can work with regulators to make sure Bitcoin is acceptable to them. For instance we can ensure that it remains possible to track the flow of money through Bitcoin. We can also ensure that there are options if certain funds need to be frozen and blacklisted, due to fraud, theft, or because they encode illegal data. We can work with them to find ways to apply AML rules to Bitcoin transactions and to the exchanges. There are ways to put taxation into Bitcoin itself, so that taxes are automatically applied when a transaction is made. Maybe even one day we'll be required to prevent dangerous levels of deflation. A lot of these changes are technical, such as improving scalability so transactions can remain on the blockchain, developing P2P blacklist technologies, and preventing deflation."

How would these changes get implemented? What kind of a consensus would be required?

[xxjs]

No way

[Lethn]

How would these changes get implemented? What kind of a consensus would be required? 

As far as I know when it comes to the sort of thing they're talking about the only way they would be able to do any of what they say is through blatantly illegal means like hacking or by taking control of the Bitcoin source code, since this is pretty much impossible to do I'm confident they have their heads in the sky and they're talking bullshit. What the Bitcoin foundation is are a bunch of self-appointed leaders who think they can become a Bitcoin central bank and I think I can safely say the majority of the people here don't give a flying fuck about them.

[edd]

How would these changes get implemented? What kind of a consensus would be required? 

As far as I know when it comes to the sort of thing they're talking about the only way they would be able to do any of what they say is through blatantly illegal means like hacking or by taking control of the Bitcoin source code, since this is pretty much impossible to do I'm confident they have their heads in the sky and they're talking bullshit. What the Bitcoin foundation is are a bunch of self-appointed leaders who think they can become a Bitcoin central bank and I think I can safely say the majority of the people here don't give a flying fuck about them.

Implementing new features into Bitcoin is not illegal. The code is open source and anyone can add anything they want to.

Getting people to accept and use the code with the new features is a completely different story, however.

[Gabi]

"We can work with regulators to make sure Bitcoin is acceptable to them. For instance we can ensure that it remains possible to track the flow of money through Bitcoin. We can also ensure that there are options if certain funds need to be frozen and blacklisted, due to fraud, theft, or because they encode illegal data. We can work with them to find ways to apply AML rules to Bitcoin transactions and to the exchanges. There are ways to put taxation into Bitcoin itself, so that taxes are automatically applied when a transaction is made. Maybe even one day we'll be required to prevent dangerous levels of deflation. A lot of these changes are technical, such as improving scalability so transactions can remain on the blockchain, developing P2P blacklist technologies, and preventing deflation."

Wtf i missed this mass of bullshit! And this is what the "foundation" want to do?? Well now i understand why some wants it to disappear!

[CasinoBit]

"We can work with regulators to make sure Bitcoin is acceptable to them. For instance we can ensure that it remains possible to track the flow of money through Bitcoin. We can also ensure that there are options if certain funds need to be frozen and blacklisted, due to fraud, theft, or because they encode illegal data. We can work with them to find ways to apply AML rules to Bitcoin transactions and to the exchanges. There are ways to put taxation into Bitcoin itself, so that taxes are automatically applied when a transaction is made. Maybe even one day we'll be required to prevent dangerous levels of deflation. A lot of these changes are technical, such as improving scalability so transactions can remain on the blockchain, developing P2P blacklist technologies, and preventing deflation."

Wtf i missed this mass of bullshit! And this is what the "foundation" want to do?? Well now i understand why some wants it to disappear!

Sound like a buncha coppers to me, the same way a knife manufacturer shouldn't be forced to make their knifes blunt on purpose so serial killers won't be able to stab people, Bitcoin should remain as efficient as possible and spit in the face of every single person who dares to demand for us to comply with some arbitrary law.

You never see knife manufacturers blamed or put in jail when someone stabs someone else with their knife.

[bitlizard]

How would these changes get implemented? What kind of a consensus would be required? 

As far as I know when it comes to the sort of thing they're talking about the only way they would be able to do any of what they say is through blatantly illegal means like hacking or by taking control of the Bitcoin source code, since this is pretty much impossible to do I'm confident they have their heads in the sky and they're talking bullshit. What the Bitcoin foundation is are a bunch of self-appointed leaders who think they can become a Bitcoin central bank and I think I can safely say the majority of the people here don't give a flying fuck about them.

Implementing new features into Bitcoin is not illegal. The code is open source and anyone can add anything they want to.

Getting people to accept and use the code with the new features is a completely different story, however.

If they were going to try to implement anything I suppose they would make the changes incrementally while releasing software updates through the github repository. Is that correct? 

[RodeoX]

"We can work with regulators to make sure Bitcoin is acceptable to them. For instance we can ensure that it remains possible to track the flow of money through Bitcoin. We can also ensure that there are options if certain funds need to be frozen and blacklisted, due to fraud, theft, or because they encode illegal data. We can work with them to find ways to apply AML rules to Bitcoin transactions and to the exchanges. There are ways to put taxation into Bitcoin itself, so that taxes are automatically applied when a transaction is made. Maybe even one day we'll be required to prevent dangerous levels of deflation. A lot of these changes are technical, such as improving scalability so transactions can remain on the blockchain, developing P2P blacklist technologies, and preventing deflation."

Wtf i missed this mass of bullshit! And this is what the "foundation" want to do?? Well now i understand why some wants it to disappear!

I don't know who is being quoted here. But the foundation does not have a position like this that I am aware of.  There is zero support for something like a backdoor in bitcoin. And "putting taxation" into bitcoin is basically a non-starter. Who's tax, USA, Poland, Zimbabwe?

[XRcode]

We shouldn't even be talking to the government... This is none of their business and it should stay that way.

[QuestionAuthority]

We shouldn't even be talking to the government... This is none of their business and it should stay that way.

Did you just say, "money isn't the governments business?"

[RodeoX]

We shouldn't even be talking to the government... This is none of their business and it should stay that way.

You have some reading to do my friend. Not only is money their business, it is their money. ALL COMMERCE IS REGULATED. No exception. Even if you find a gold ring on the street, technically you owe some of it to the government.

Let's get past this foolishness about bitcoin not being regulated. IT IS being regulated while some bitcoiners hide their heads in the sand. The real question is do you want a voice in the regulation process? Or would rather let the government do it for you?

It will be to late when you come here saying "the state took my money!!" The time to act is now, or maybe yesterday.

[franky1]

We shouldn't even be talking to the government... This is none of their business and it should stay that way.

You have some reading to do my friend. Not only is money their business, it is their money.

correct. money = FIAT. the US government own dollars. so dollars is their business.. not bitcoin

ALL COMMERCE IS REGULATED. No exception. Even if you find a gold ring on the street, technically you owe some of it to the government.

Let's get past this foolishness about bitcoin not being regulated. IT IS being regulated while some bitcoiners hide their heads in the sand. The real question is do you want a voice in the regulation process? Or would rather let the government do it for you?

It will be to late when you come here saying "the state took my money!!" The time to act is now, or maybe yesterday.

wrong
if you find gold. you keep it. its yours.. if however you convert it to FIAT, you then have to declare your fiat.

same with bitcoin. america does not own bitcoin, so you do not have to declare bitcoin. but when you convert it to fiat then you have to declare it.

FIAT is the governments property.

imagine it another way.. you own a chicken. it lays an egg.. do you pay tax on every egg produced.. no. if you swapped an egg for some bacon, tax?? no.

if you sold your egg for FIAT, income tax.. yes.

[marcus_of_augustus]

We shouldn't even be talking to the government... This is none of their business and it should stay that way.

You have some reading to do my friend. Not only is money their business, it is their money. ALL COMMERCE IS REGULATED. No exception. Even if you find a gold ring on the street, technically you owe some of it to the government.

Let's get past this foolishness about bitcoin not being regulated. IT IS being regulated while some bitcoiners hide their heads in the sand. The real question is do you want a voice in the regulation process? Or would rather let the government do it for you?

It will be to late when you come here saying "the state took my money!!" The time to act is now, or maybe yesterday.

Your head is in the wrong place.

Do not ask for permission ... if it is not specifically expressed in law that it is illegal ... it is legal. Asking for regulations is like asking a rapist to do it gently.

[QuestionAuthority]

We shouldn't even be talking to the government... This is none of their business and it should stay that way.

You have some reading to do my friend. Not only is money their business, it is their money. ALL COMMERCE IS REGULATED. No exception. Even if you find a gold ring on the street, technically you owe some of it to the government.

Let's get past this foolishness about bitcoin not being regulated. IT IS being regulated while some bitcoiners hide their heads in the sand. The real question is do you want a voice in the regulation process? Or would rather let the government do it for you?

It will be to late when you come here saying "the state took my money!!" The time to act is now, or maybe yesterday.

Your head is in the wrong place.

Do not ask for permission ... if it is not specifically expressed in law that it is illegal ... it is legal. Asking for regulations is like asking a rapist to do it gently.

We're setting our sights too high. Maybe we should just ask for some lube.