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Author Topic: Ripple is in major trouble  (Read 25380 times)
JoelKatz
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May 29, 2017, 05:39:15 PM
 #101

First of all I didnt insult, I stated some facts along with some fun. If you find it offensive then bad for you.
It's not about whether I find it offensive or not, it's about what it says about your motivations.

Quote
Second, I dont lie, I really hate Ripple and i think it should go to 0 asap, same for Stellar.
Not only do you hate Ripple, but you're entirely unwilling to discuss or examine the claims that have informed your beliefs.

Quote
Third, not even a blockchain and it is centralized.
It is, literally, a chain of blocks. As for whether it's centralized, *every* major blockchain currently is to some degree. (Right now, if China made it illegal for a miner to build a block on top of any block that spent particular UTXOs, those bitcoins would be effectively frozen) Ripple, at least, has a plan to improve decentralization and a technology that doesn't inherently centralize. You are completely unwilling to discuss these actual facts.

Quote
Fourth, do you guys know who was the founder of Ripple?
Fifth, do you know who was the founder of MtGox?
Do you know that Ripple has gone to court with Jed several times? Ripple now has custody of Jed's XRP to prevent him from making threats of, or actually, dumping XRP on the open market And did you notice a huge change in Ripple's behavior after he left?

Jed left MtGox long before it failed due to insolvency. He did still own some percentage of the exchange (12% I think). I probably know a lot more about Jed's connection to MtGox than you do, and I have no idea what responsibility, if any, he has for the failure of MtGox.

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Spoetnik
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May 29, 2017, 06:08:24 PM
 #102

Like what not knowing a fractional reserve in operation where you work and own stake ?
Fractional reserve ? Like banks ? LOL

Gimme a break ..this guys spews so much fucking bullshit it's not even funny.

He loves to claim he doesn't know anything yet says the opposite implying he "knows things"
Which is is it Joel ?

Being the only employee who speaks here you'd think you WOULD know what is going on.
For example when you claimed to not know why 333 million was dumped on the market
..you showed up to put the fire out and claim "they had a good reason"
..you just didn't know what it was.

Even though you are a Ripple employee.

And you got balls muttering shit about "Motivations"
Like what maybe you being here with a SIG that says you are an employee of Ripple ?
That kettle is black baby ROFL  Cheesy

FUD first & ask questions later™
JoelKatz
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May 29, 2017, 06:30:38 PM
 #103

...
And, again, when the nonsense you spew is countered with facts, you simply move on to spouting more nonsense. I'm done playing your game.


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arpon11
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May 29, 2017, 06:41:12 PM
 #104

I think ripple is not in trouble as speculated by the op. Every currency has there pulling face for proper advancement and progress. Ripple is currently in one of those faces. When ever I analyse ripple market capitalization, I always see a coin that will be great in future.
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May 29, 2017, 09:41:17 PM
 #105

First of all I didnt insult, I stated some facts along with some fun. If you find it offensive then bad for you.
It's not about whether I find it offensive or not, it's about what it says about your motivations.

Quote
Second, I dont lie, I really hate Ripple and i think it should go to 0 asap, same for Stellar.
Not only do you hate Ripple, but you're entirely unwilling to discuss or examine the claims that have informed your beliefs.

Quote
Third, not even a blockchain and it is centralized.
It is, literally, a chain of blocks. As for whether it's centralized, *every* major blockchain currently is to some degree. (Right now, if China made it illegal for a miner to build a block on top of any block that spent particular UTXOs, those bitcoins would be effectively frozen) Ripple, at least, has a plan to improve decentralization and a technology that doesn't inherently centralize. You are completely unwilling to discuss these actual facts.

Quote
Fourth, do you guys know who was the founder of Ripple?
Fifth, do you know who was the founder of MtGox?
Do you know that Ripple has gone to court with Jed several times? Ripple now has custody of Jed's XRP to prevent him from making threats of, or actually, dumping XRP on the open market And did you notice a huge change in Ripple's behavior after he left?

Jed left MtGox long before it failed due to insolvency. He did still own some percentage of the exchange (12% I think). I probably know a lot more about Jed's connection to MtGox than you do, and I have no idea what responsibility, if any, he has for the failure of MtGox.

everyone knows that didnt happen like that. Dont play stupid.
why do you keep saying that i am not willing to discuss? I am leaving this thread. You have some degree of... retardedness?
as I mentioned, time will prove me right.

Spoetnik
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May 30, 2017, 04:06:14 AM
 #106

You can read his own words and see his verbal gymnastics..
He always knows.. but well doesn't know.

Always seems to be posturing for cred so you can take his word for it but then won't say anything.

Letting Jeb off the hook because he didn't know ?
Uhhmm no.. i knew when i showed in crypto in 2013 and seen the side effects of a fractional reserve in operation.
Yet a guy who WORKED THERE and owned a 12% stake had no idea ?

That is the same as Cryptsy idiots saying they had no idea there was a problem.
Ya you did fuckheads.. you knew because the people was screaming and bitching non stop.
And the transfers were insanely fucked up.

When i got in crypto i heard on DAY ONE people waiting months to get their Bitcoin.

This guy is full of fucking shit .

FUD first & ask questions later™
JoelKatz
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May 30, 2017, 06:28:55 PM
 #107

You can read his own words and see his verbal gymnastics..
He always knows.. but well doesn't know.

Always seems to be posturing for cred so you can take his word for it but then won't say anything.

Letting Jeb off the hook because he didn't know ?
Uhhmm no.. i knew when i showed in crypto in 2013 and seen the side effects of a fractional reserve in operation.
Yet a guy who WORKED THERE and owned a 12% stake had no idea ?

That is the same as Cryptsy idiots saying they had no idea there was a problem.
Ya you did fuckheads.. you knew because the people was screaming and bitching non stop.
And the transfers were insanely fucked up.

When i got in crypto i heard on DAY ONE people waiting months to get their Bitcoin.

This guy is full of fucking shit .
Holy shit, man. This doesn't even matter. Ripple's gone to court to stop Jed from dumping. He's only connected to the company historically. I don't even have a dog in this fight. The worse Jed is, the better it is that he's no longer connected to Ripple. The better Jed is, the better one of Ripple's founders is. It really is a wash.

And what do you think I know? You think Jed confided in me that he knew MtGox was running a fractional reserve? Why the heck would he do that? And if Jed protested his innocence to me, why would I believe him?

I stated all the facts that I know. You seem to think somehow I would have inside knowledge to Jed's relationship with MtGox? Why the hell would that be?

It just seems that no matter what I say, you feel obligated to both disagree with me and insist that it's somehow a big deal that validates your opinions about Ripple.

I am an employee of Ripple. Follow me on Twitter @JoelKatz
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AleSergio
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May 30, 2017, 07:00:32 PM
 #108

I think ripple is not in trouble as speculated by the op. Every currency has there pulling face for proper advancement and progress. Ripple is currently in one of those faces. When ever I analyse ripple market capitalization, I always see a coin that will be great in future.

Agree with you with a good market cap it should have a great future. Still it is in a top of coins, so will see it is just a matter o time Smiley

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douglock
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May 30, 2017, 09:40:03 PM
 #109

I think ripple is not in trouble as speculated by the op. Every currency has there pulling face for proper advancement and progress. Ripple is currently in one of those faces. When ever I analyse ripple market capitalization, I always see a coin that will be great in future.

Agree with you with a good market cap it should have a great future. Still it is in a top of coins, so will see it is just a matter o time Smiley
Yeah that is right. Time will answer us everything. Ripple is good
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May 30, 2017, 09:59:40 PM
 #110

Holy shit, man. This doesn't even matter.

why bother even engaging. this guy has his moments, but let's say he always comes at things from a very particular angle that won't change no matter what is done or said.
JoelKatz
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May 30, 2017, 11:54:51 PM
 #111

Holy shit, man. This doesn't even matter.
why bother even engaging. this guy has his moments, but let's say he always comes at things from a very particular angle that won't change no matter what is done or said.
I guess I can't help myself. I joke with my wife about being unable to leave my computer because "it's an emergency -- someone is wrong on the Internet".
https://xkcd.com/386/

I am an employee of Ripple. Follow me on Twitter @JoelKatz
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May 31, 2017, 12:09:27 AM
 #112

This is why open sourcing all your code when you have unique technology is a bad idea. Someone will just take the code and implement their own solution. Better off treating your code as intellectual property.  All these open source coins are inherently worthless from the perspective of all their "unique features" because big corporations will just rip off their ideas.



https://www.jelurida.com/jelurida-public-license

Nxt official forum at: https://nxtforum.org/
superskillz
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May 31, 2017, 02:15:12 AM
 #113


http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Japan-s-SBI-megabanks-take-stakes-in-blockchain-group-R3?n_cid=NARAN012

http://www.c[Suspicious link removed]m/2017/05/23/r3-funding-blockchain-intel-bank-of-america-hsbc.html



So Ripple signed Japan SBI which was a group of about 47 banks and created SBI Ripple Asia which caused pump from .20c to .40c but news just came out today that Japan SBI joined R3 and are creating their own coin. R3 has loads of banks on board and is like a Universal Bank Consortium, majority will be owned by the banks in it unlike Ripple. They will use it to implement blockchain solutions to save them money. I saw this coming a mile away. All these banks are investing in their own ILP Ripple type network so they don't have to depend on a third party. Why depend on a third party when you can have your own and save even more? Whales are trying to maintain XRP value as some hold a lot but they can only keep buying so long because noone else is buying.

Below are some competitors in the blockchain banking scene with more coming:


R3
Quorum
Ripple
Axoni
InfoSys


Good bye Swift and Ripple, hello R3 lol get out before the house burns down I've been saying this for awhile now. There is no more good news left for Ripple. They were a shame at Consensus and now their own group just ditched them. Greedy centralized trash.





This guy sounds legit. I guess I'll get out now.

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May 31, 2017, 02:18:44 AM
 #114

Banks were never going to use the ripple currency they were always only interested in the blockchain. Using a speculative asset for transactions makes zero sense to a risk averse bank. The reality is that ripple is a speculative asset and has no real use other than minimal amounts to prevent spam attacks on the network.
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May 31, 2017, 03:33:52 AM
 #115

Holy shit, man. This doesn't even matter.

why bother even engaging. this guy has his moments, but let's say he always comes at things from a very particular angle that won't change no matter what is done or said.

And you and the Ripple employee here?
I see the same shit talking frauds here defending bad..
I was last here telling both of you that you are full of shit..

All you guys do is play dumb and fuck around..
Because it pads your wallet.
.. Not mine.

I last simply pointed out how everything that comes out of Joel's mouth is waffling Ripple damage control bullshit.

What does it matter he just says?

It matters when millions of dollars are at stake and the players in control are provably deceitful.
Being heavily associated with GOX and then pretending you had no idea big problems were happening is not gonna fly.

It doesn't matter what people think of me.
The same idiots are here spewing BS.
Read it for yourself.. Don't take my word for it.

FUD first & ask questions later™
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May 31, 2017, 04:18:14 AM
Last edit: May 31, 2017, 07:58:48 PM by kadscuk
 #116


If every bank creates their own token, you just reinvent the settlement problem.

If banks create tokens backed by fiat, then each token is tied to a jurisdiction and there's still a huge market in providing liquidity across jurisdictions. (This would be one possible way to improve domestic payments.)

If banks create unbacked tokens, then they have to incentivize all the liquidity themselves and we're way ahead of them with plenty of bank support. They'd have to raise and expend all the funds that we already have.

I have almost no doubt that all of these things will be tried and that some of them will be successful. Bitcoin could also gain significant market share as a settlement currency between inter-ledger exchanges locked in particular jurisdictions (the payment tech Ripple is cooperating to build will, I hope, be good for many cryptos). We think we can position XRP to compete on a level playing field.

You might also start to see more organic growth of XRP. XRP transactions are much faster, cheaper, and more reliable than transactions on any other major blockchain. And XRP has many features that other blockchains don't such as key rotation, native multisign, native support for arbitrary assets, order books, and cross-currency payments, and so on. It may not just be Ripple pursuing international payments for much longer.

Of course, there are no guarantees. These things also might not happen.

This is the money post and what it all boils down to in the end

Can banks go it alone and get the liquidity themselves to make their own ripple-like blockchain system work?

Or can XRP gain enough liquidity (through crypto markets etc) to make banks want to use it?

Its almost like a chicken and egg problem. It makes XRP somewhat dependant on liquidity from crypto investors...many of which don't want a centralised system...which is why crypto investors invest so heavily in tech's like bitcoin etc as it is

It seems your assuming that XRP has its own source of real liquidity beyond crypto investors too, perhaps getting banks to buy the XRP tokens.... But if the XRP tokens come at a high price, it incentives the banks to group together and make their own, cheaper system.

Another important thing: Could it be that the banks don't need to have a real liquidity amount in their ripple-like system to begin with? They could just make up an arbitrary token in cyber space, with no actual sellable value in dollars/fiat. And then fix that at certain rates to fiat..and then use that.

So, liquidity doesnt have to be an issue at all. Liquidity isnt required because the token for inter-bank payments can just be fixed to fiat amounts to keep things simple, and with no dollar re-sell value. Banks can just use a fake token and peg it to fiat and use that for inter-bank and cross-border transfers. Who says the token has to have any value? Your making a huge huge assumption there.....

It obviously saves the bank money if the token has NO value, instead of having to fork out and deal with a volatile token price on the open market

So....it seems like Ripple is trying to sell a concept to crypto investors that doesn't necessarily have to be the way for banks. Not to mention that crypto investors dont like centralised stuff. The nonsense that miners make things centralised is false. The open market determines the price of tokens and not the miners. Whereas by XRP keeping control of a huge chunk of the supply of XRP, they can manipulate the open market at will.

There has to be a clearer roadmap shown for the XRP concept that can convince crypto investors why a bank will want to use it. Because tokens (like XRP) for inter-bank payments dont need to have any value. You can just make the value up if the consortium of banks are in agreement.

-----

Last thing, as for banks using the quickest and easiest way, it would seem to me that the quickest and easiest way would be to bypass the liquidity issue altogether and peg cyber tokens (with no dollar value) to fiat. And then use that. Why does the cyber token need to have any money value whatsoever? Why does the XRP have to have any monetary value? It doesn't.

Banks can just as easily make their own tokens (with no dollar value) and peg that to fiat. Which is what groups like R3 could very easily do

------

I wont deny that ripple has a great team and can get things done..and it has a proven track record and there's so many VC firms investing in it, that they clearly saw a lot of light in the idea.

And btw, just as full disclosure, I did make some money from XRP so I have made money out of it, but seems ripple doesn't have to be the $100bn+ market cap beast that people initially thought it would be. It can have a place in the market for sure, but there's still huge questions and uncertainty when questions like above are asked

So...clarity there would be super helpful



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May 31, 2017, 04:31:41 AM
 #117

The guy is making sense with the technical criticism.
I wonder if Joel will address it directly.

Myself I veer towards the meat & potatoes of it all..

I have issues with the ideology for starters.
And the handling has been sketchy too.
Which has been brought up then ignored.

Has Ripple Inc been honest & transparent and accountable?

They know it is this forum that made them yet have no none but Joel slinging poor excuses?

Want a list of bullshit stunts Ripple Inc has been behind?

FUD first & ask questions later™
JoelKatz
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May 31, 2017, 04:01:29 PM
 #118

Last thing, as for banks using the quickest and easiest way, it would seem to me that the quickest and easiest way would be to bypass the liquidity issue altogether and peg cyber tokens (with no dollar value) to fiat. And then use that. Why does the cyber token need to have any money value whatsoever? Why does the XRP have to have any monetary value? It doesn't.

Banks can just as easily make their own tokens (with no dollar value) and peg that to fiat. Which is what groups like R3 could very easily do
I don't understand what you're suggesting. If the token has no dollar value, what purpose does it serve? Do you mean it merely keeps track of who owes what to whom? If so, how do you settle those debts?

And when you say "peg that to fiat", do you mean to have one such token for each fiat currency? If so, how do you provide cross-currency liquidity? Or do you mean to peg one token to more than one fiat currency? How do you do that?

I think what you might be missing is that the main issue is moving actual value between islands of liquidity. How would a valueless token move value between, say, Europe and India?

The kind of system you're talking about (if I understand you correctly) is great for domestic payments and very similar to what many countries currently use. It doesn't move value though, so it doesn't help much with the problem Ripple is targeting.

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May 31, 2017, 04:24:27 PM
 #119

I have a small bag of RIPPLE and lately there is a lot of bad press about it even on POLONIEX trollbox so I am also wondering, do I sell it at a loss or do I hold in case it has a revival? I hate selling coins or token at a loss but a bit of sound advice will help.


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May 31, 2017, 05:08:33 PM
Last edit: June 01, 2017, 03:56:24 AM by ðºÞæ
 #120

A little reality check



"The existing Visa credit card network processes about 15 million Internet purchases per day worldwide. Bitcoin can already scale much larger than that with existing hardware for a fraction of the cost. It never really hits a scale ceiling."  Satoshi Nakamoto, April 2009          Avoiding taxes is totally legal if you consider and respect the law.
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