Tax evaders and protesters give Bitcoin a bad name

[nobbynobbynoob]

You know bitcoin is going mainstream when imprudent socialist kids have arrived to discuss how bitcoin shouldn't be used for tax avoidance. Got to love it.

Or he's an IRS employee.

Thank goodness I'm not a US citizen or permanent resident then.

You gotta love the way a show like Boston Legal carries that trace of a libertarian streak, periodically sticking it to both Republicans and Democrats, as they both deserve. Pertinent to this thread is the episode in which Denise (Julie Bowen) is being persecuted by the IRS and gets arrested over a $400 arrears. Now, the IRS is nasty, but mostly probably not that nasty. How often would they chase you up, cuff you and cage you over $400? Surely even the IRS would just impose a penalty fee and demand it. Now, if they audit you and expressly accuse you of tax evasion to the tune of $xxxxxx, that's another matter entirely. And while we may think the OP is a troll and morally disagree with what he said, there is no doubt that you could be in serious trouble if the IRS is auditing you for tax evasion...

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[MiningUnited]

Make others suffer just because you have, why?

[Severian]

there is no doubt that you could be in serious trouble if the IRS is auditing you for tax evasion...

People generally get in trouble with the IRS because they continue to use banks. Bitcoin solves that problem. Hence, threads like this by people of the strong opinion that we should all be servants to the State. Bitcoin makes authoritarians nervous.

[pheaonix]

statists are so cute

[dbcch0]

Make others suffer just because you have, why?

I proposed a temporary bit of suffering so you understand the real and sustained suffering of the masses that are not born privileged, and thus have some sort of humanity in your bones, instead of 'I'm inherently superior to everyone else because I was born into wealth'.

Anyway, one of government's original functions is to protect the rich from the poor. Likewise, they protect the poor from the rich. There are many more poor people though, so check the French Revolution for an example of what happens to the rich during a revolution.

[Severian]

statists are so cute

It's their squinty little eyes when they're yelling "COMPLY!" that makes them so adorable.

[bitleif]

I am not in any way arguing for tax evasion (way too risky IMHO), but none of your 'moral' arguments hold water.

it is the obligation of all citizens to do their best to comply with the law and pay their taxes

Why?

complying with the law [...] makes them a responsible citizen

There is no automatic connection between laws, morality and responsibility.

Taxes have existed throughout the history of all civilizations.

So has slavery.

Everyone has to pay taxes, whether you like it or not

The existence of tax evaders clearly proves otherwise.

Tax protesters and evaders who associate Bitcoin with a method of tax evasion may very well be its downfall.

That some will use bitcoin for this purpose is inevitable. Learn how to deal with it instead of thinking moralizing about it will make any difference.

If you cheat on your taxes, but I and everyone else pays

That's the tax mans fault, not the tax evaders fault.

State is the collective.

The state is one organization claiming to represent the collective. Notice that the concept of the state hasn't changed much if at all since feudal times, only the way the heads of state are selected (in some countries.)

[dbcch0]

It's their squinty little eyes when they're yelling "COMPLY!" that makes them so adorable.

I can't wait until a gang comes and takes your Bitcoin, and rapes your bunghole in your anarchist fantasy world. No government to turn to, and guess what - you're outnumbered!

[Severian]

I can't wait until a gang comes and takes your Bitcoin, and rapes your bunghole in your anarchist fantasy world. No government to turn to, and guess what - you're outnumbered!

Or maybe it's the threat of violence when you're out of arguments that makes you all so cuddly.

[dbcch0]

Or maybe it's the threat of violence when you're out of arguments that makes you all so cuddly.

Except in your privileged fantasy world, it's not actually a threat, it's a reality. That's what happens when it is every man for themselves. You'll learn this, sooner or later.

[bitleif]

I can't wait until a gang comes and takes your Bitcoin, and rapes your bunghole in your anarchist fantasy world. No government to turn to, and guess what - you're outnumbered!

So you openly admit you hope violence happens to those who disagree with you. Why should we trust any of your 'moral' arguments?

[dbcch0]

To all: Regardless of your opinions, I just realized MiningUnited is running a Ponzi Scheme (a classic and obvious one where he claims to send back more Bitcoins than you send to him).

So aside from his tax protesting, he's headed to prison for THAT alone. Ponzi Schemes are illegal MiningUnited. As a supposed attorney, I'd think you know this, but then again - you claim taxation is illegal, so who knows what you know.

[dbcch0]

I can't wait until a gang comes and takes your Bitcoin, and rapes your bunghole in your anarchist fantasy world. No government to turn to, and guess what - you're outnumbered!

So you openly admit you hope violence happens to those who disagree with you. Why should we trust any of your 'moral' arguments?

You don't have to trust me. And your response in nonsensical and unrelated. It's a diversion from the issues at hand, which you can not compose a reasonable response to.

I obviously was making a point. About reality. About the nature of humanity. Ah, nevermind.

[pheaonix]

Or maybe it's the threat of violence when you're out of arguments that makes you all so cuddly.

Except in your privileged fantasy world, it's not actually a threat, it's a reality. That's what happens when it is every man for themselves. You'll learn this, sooner or later.

there is such a vision of a governmentless society that is voluntary

please check out this

https://www.youtube.com/user/AdamKokesh

a couple of years ago i would've agreed with you

[dbcch0]

there is such a vision of a governmentless society that is voluntary

please check out this

https://www.youtube.com/user/AdamKokesh

a couple of years ago i would've agreed with you

I am aware of this perspective, but don't believe it would work in the real world. That SAID, I do appreciate that you can back up your philosophy with more than utter nonsense.

OT: I'm still upset about MiningUnited's crap. I mean, the last thing this world needs is another Ponzi Scheme. Therefore, I am composing a report to the proper authorities. I believe he needs special attention from the 'Bitcoin police' as well. His site is so obviously a ponzi scheme it's almost too brazen to believe, as if he thinks he is above the law and can't go to prison. EDIT: And, unlike many who toss around the term 'ponzi scheme', I am correctly applying it here.

[dbcch0]

And MiningUnited deleted all his posts where he claims taxes are illegal and he'll never pay taxes after I outed him in the thread discussing his Ponzi Scheme anonymous 'business': https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179917.0;topicseen .

Way to stick by your argument!

[pheaonix]

there is such a vision of a governmentless society that is voluntary

please check out this

https://www.youtube.com/user/AdamKokesh

a couple of years ago i would've agreed with you

I am aware of this perspective, but don't believe it would work in the real world. That SAID, I do appreciate that you can back up your philosophy with more than utter nonsense.

OT: I'm still upset about MiningUnited's crap. I mean, the last thing this world needs is another Ponzi Scheme. Therefore, I am composing a report to the proper authorities. I believe he needs special attention from the 'Bitcoin police' as well. His site is so obviously a ponzi scheme it's almost too brazen to believe, as if he thinks he is above the law and can't go to prison. EDIT: And, unlike many who toss around the term 'ponzi scheme', I am correctly applying it here.

if you don't think it can work, that means you think people cannot be lawful without guns pointed at them.

we do not need the state. we can reproduce all of its functions better in a free market. who will protect you better, someone whose livelihood and income is based on protecting you, or an officer that must meet his quota of tickets and is paid by the hour, not by the protection (as if anyone has been helped by a cop).

[JoeChmoe]

OP is right, taxes do have to be paid.....If you don't evade them correctly.


The media gives bitcoin a bad name. They mention its use for purchasing illegal drugs more than they do tax evasion.

[nobbynobbynoob]

The media gives bitcoin a bad name. They mention its use for purchasing illegal drugs more than they do tax evasion.

Well, there is the point that bitcoin really isn't a special tax evasion tool, any more than cash is. Except in a few ways. On TV shows about customs and Border patrols they always catch the odd smart-alec who has earned a bunch of cash in their private business, has not paid any tax, and is trying to fly abroad with all the cash. Customs seize the cash. Bitcoin user? Not affected.

[BelMarduk]

State is not that necessary in the modern world. It was usefull, but no more. I will not pay my taxes for shit...

Are you that confused? State is the collective. Without government, we'd have smog in the air, dirty water, pay-to-use parks, child labor, slavery, unsafe food.. Oh, and private armies constantly at war with each other.

Not to mention the fact that laws would be up to vigilante justice. In other words, I could come shoot you if your music was loud, rape your wife, etc... But, I suppose the rule of law and due process aren't important, just let everyone start killing each other like in the dark ages.

Good idea!

I am quite sure you just described civilization today... smog (perpetration of the petro-dollar), dirty water (fluoride anyone?), pay to use parks (National parks shut down because of sequestration?) child labor (although not directly but the public education removes 33% of a child's time from his family, and indoctrinates them into good institutionalized workers?) slavery (a portion of your labor is taken without your consent via wage taxes?) unsafe food (see Monsanto GMO?) and the private wars? how about the US military used to make damn sure the FRN stays the worlds 'reserve currency' aka the petro-dollar?

EDIT: ...And, you are absolutely free to shoot anyone for any reason... even now, the 'law' can only REACT to the action once taken.