Zpool.ca: Does it take 20-22% fee?

[tsojin]

Its funny that zpool steals 15% even if you dont exchange your coins.
I was trying to mine Bulwardk (BWK) there today, didn't want to get robbed by zpools' exchange rates so decided to get paid in BWK.

The pool found a block my last 50 earnings tab shows:

      Name                 Amount                Percent            mBTC                Time
 Bulwark (nist5)     0.144400 BWK         0.385%       0.08421262        70m ago

But Total Earned tab shows: 0.12669564 BWK  Why do people still use this pool?

So, 1) even if you choose to mine w/ the same coin, your mining 'rewards' are still pegged to the amount of BTC those coins earned.  2) you are still charged the 5% exchange fee even if not 'exchanging' (b/c as I said in 1 you technically are).  No matter your payout coin it goes like this: reward > BTC > your payout coin.  The pool has a fee (2% for nist5) and the exchange to BTC has a fee (5%).  Which means you would pay 0.010108 in fees.  So .1444 -.010108 = 0.134292.  So you still have a difference of .00759636 when you factor in the static costs, which is 5% difference between expected and actual (far cry from 15% 'extra').  And when looking over the BWKs prices on the pay you posted on crypotia, there are more then enough greater then 5% prices swings downward to account for that.  Since most likely BWK has to be valued twice before you get your earnings, once when the pool exchanges for BTC and then again when it exchanges for your equivalent of BWK (BWK started out around 0.0007 then trended downward before finishing at 0.00063).  This is the main reason I get paid out in BTC,  and why I suspect that the non-btc payouts are 'use at your own risk.'

Nothing on here is more than conjecture and misleading information.  The 'evidence' is sp_'s screenshots, but they lack timestamps to validate and he is using polenex which I am pretty sure is not the exchange zpool uses for lbry.  But unless every auto-converting pool is also taking 20% zpool should show results that are lower than other pools.  When ran side by side (and assuming both pools have the same coins and other variables corrected for).  But the several side by sides that have been done and posted and the ones I did (when I do my next one I'll post results) show zpool either the same, very slightly below, above, or way above I just don't see it. 

[cidman]

i would say the fee is closer to 50%
2 1070ti test on x17 for the last 24 hours brought in 25.4 XVG
just from watching the last 50 blocks earned vs what the pool found will tell u everything u need to know
really surprised ppl are mining here since they are prolly not even profitable

[bsobel]

Are those blocks confirmed?  In my tests for some of the coins it can take days before they are confirmed and enough liquidity exists to exchange them.  There is a LONG tail on some of them (not hours, days, maybe a week).  That said, in my tests the payouts eventually show up.  I think many people mine for a day and compare numbers, but thats not really a good comparison since many of the smaller alt coins won't have been paid yet.  Mine for 24 hours then look at your total payout 7 days later...

[dude77]

I'm going to be running some comparison tests but watching the way zpool does its payouts I don't think 24 hours is long enough to get a fair comparison. I think you probably need two or three days for the payouts to stabilize because if you're mining an algo that has a lot of coins, you can have a lot of credit locked up in a half different coin accounts and the payouts are a little wavy even though the input hashpower is constant.

If you have a very small mine it might take more than a few days to get to that point where it's stable.

Miningpoolhubstats is somewhat similar in that only the "Payout Last 24 Hours" for your payout coin really seems to be relevant and it takes a few days to get that number stable before you can see what it actually happening.

The apparent 20% fee may just be because you have about 20% of your coins in other coins that have not reached the thresholds needed to get traded to your payout coin. If you let it hash a couple days you'll have everything topped off and your input hashpower should equate to your output payments.

One thing I like about Miningpoolhub is that you can manually get payments on all your other coins to empty your account so you don't have to wait for them to automatically get traded out. On zpool it looks like it's only automatic trading to get the accounts emptied. Not a big deal but it's a slight difference.

[DaleyEdster]

Here you can see the coins that I mined in the last 60 mins or so.  I originally recorded an hour long video of it, but for some reason Shadowplay decided to fast forward a chunk of the audio, but not the video and therefore they got out of sync.  I will try and explain where all the numbers come from:

In the Amount column you can see exactly how many of each coin I mined for that particular block.  You can also see the mBTC payout value of those said coins.

If you look at the Wallet payout information you will see that in total it is expected to payout 0.00000549 BTC.  This matches the value of the sum of all the coins in BTC value in the following spreadsheet Cell D17.  Then looking on coinmarketcap.com I took the current BID value for Auroracoin which is traded on Bittrex and Topaz which is traded on Novaexchange.   Column F shows the current BID price of the coins on the respective exchanges.   Column G is the proceeds of that exchange.  In both cases the exchange fees for trading are less than 1%.  The Exchange proceeds in Column G is showing how much BTC each set of coins should produce.   Column H is the percentage of value the zpool is giving compared to what is generated on the Exchange.  As you can see in every case the value is 85% of the value that Zpool is paying.  This is the way that I've calculated it every time and you can too.

At this point it appears that perhaps Crackfoo has adjusted something because in my previous example it was 80% in almost every case.  So that is where all the numbers came from and how I was deriving the value of the coins compared to what Zpool was paying.  As of right now Zpool appears to be paying 85% of the current bid value of the coins.  You can see the price per coin paid out in the E column vs the

Link to the spreadsheet to verify all formulas:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pJud4B3tZD5Y587GJhpHy655KeakClbcNw8U2JI6YnY

How can you tell which exchange the coins are traded on to get the prices etc?

[pzyxian]

If you only want to mine a single coin and want to get paid in that coin, go with yiimp.  If you want to try and ride the wave of multiple coins to increase your payout, zpool is the best I have found regardless of what is said here.  I am happy with the daily payouts I get with zpool and I don't have to manage it.  They at least match, but usually beat, estimated payouts for mining a single coin.  When I multi coin mine on yiimp I had to create 10+ wallets on various exchanges, then wait for enough coins to amass to be able to sell them.  Then transferring the BTC back incurred another cost.  All of this is handled in bulk by zpool which reduces cost and time.  To duplicate the number of coins available to mine and manage the exchanging of those coins to BTC, requires a significant amount of time without zpool, in order to get the same payout (in my experience).

But in the end, it's your choice what to do.  As my operation gets larger and I dedicate additional time to it, I may move to yiimp and hold coins longer to catch the rises in the market better.  But currently I don't have the time, so zpool provides a very consistent income that I don't have to manage.

Did anyone do any testing of this or is still testing?  
 

I hear you on the convenience, but I just don't like shady shit.  Be upfront with the fees/costs.  Mining Pool Hub has auto-exchange and can mine multiple coins. They are upfront on exchange fees.

I like the stats and PPS on zpool better since I only have limited mining time each day.  If their info is correct, their profitability seems higher than other pools without much of a reason as to why they are higher that I can tell.

I don't want to mine there for a few days expecting X and getting Y because they are not upfront about exchange fees and I am suckered in with the higher profitability numbers that is why I wanted to see if anyone had given it a try.  

Have you tried the auto exchange on mining pool hub? they say the tx fee is 0.2% but never really mentioned about the exchange fee. They exchange on 3 exchanges (bittrex, yobit, and poloniex). I know on bittrex if you trade it's 0.25% each way. If you mine ZEC and want to exchange for ZCL you will end up getting 0.5% exchange fee. I'm not sure if MPH has any deals with these exchanges such that they can shrink the fees to 0.2% no mater what coin you want to auto exchange for. Or is this 0.2% merely a fee for transferring to and from the exchange, plus whatever exchange fees on top of that.

[DaleyEdster]

So where do you see that MPH sell all of their coins on Poloniex, Bittrex and Yobit?

[Max3k]

So where do you see that MPH sell all of their coins on Poloniex, Bittrex and Yobit?

Auto Exchange - EXCHANGE AVAILABILITY AND SETTINGS

[DaleyEdster]

So where do you see that MPH sell all of their coins on Poloniex, Bittrex and Yobit?

Auto Exchange - EXCHANGE AVAILABILITY AND SETTINGS

Ah ok thanks. I can't see anything similar for zpool or ahashpool though.

[pinpins]

I think it must be tricky with auto exchange, you should pay transaction fees back and forth. Also you can lose sometimes selling lower than expected. So it might end up with less than you anticipated

[dude77]

I'm going to be running some comparison tests but watching the way zpool does its payouts I don't think 24 hours is long enough to get a fair comparison. I think you probably need two or three days for the payouts to stabilize because if you're mining an algo that has a lot of coins, you can have a lot of credit locked up in a half different coin accounts and the payouts are a little wavy even though the input hashpower is constant.

If you have a very small mine it might take more than a few days to get to that point where it's stable.

Miningpoolhubstats is somewhat similar in that only the "Payout Last 24 Hours" for your payout coin really seems to be relevant and it takes a few days to get that number stable before you can see what it actually happening.

The apparent 20% fee may just be because you have about 20% of your coins in other coins that have not reached the thresholds needed to get traded to your payout coin. If you let it hash a couple days you'll have everything topped off and your input hashpower should equate to your output payments.

One thing I like about Miningpoolhub is that you can manually get payments on all your other coins to empty your account so you don't have to wait for them to automatically get traded out. On zpool it looks like it's only automatic trading to get the accounts emptied. Not a big deal but it's a slight difference.

From the testing I've done zpool is the overall best option for me. The people saying it takes a 20% fee are wrong IMO. They need to do a longer test with a significant amount of hashpower, like 2 or 3 rigs worth, in order to handle the fact that zpool has a lot of your coins in different accounts which means the payout will widely fluctuate if you're using just one or two cards.

I like Miningpoolhub but it doesn't have the algorithm I want to mine. Zpool is more resilient to losses due to market fluctuations than straight mining so it is currently my pool of choice.

One thing I don't like about zpool is it pays out every 2 hours so you may get a lot of transaction payout fees. I like that Miningpoolhub lets you set a payout threshhold. However overall zpool makes me the most money at the moment so that's what i'm going with.

[pzyxian]

So where do you see that MPH sell all of their coins on Poloniex, Bittrex and Yobit?

You have to create an account then you will see the auto exchange option like below:

http://take.ms/UzKcK

[zmago]

if you think it is only 20% you are wrong.

zpool is the worst pool to choose from.

just read this article: http://www.home-mining.net/mining-dutch-wins-race-0-01btc/

same gear 4 pools.

diff between zpool and winner is almost 50% and have in mind that winning pool took their profits too.

stay away from zpool.

[dude77]

I'll look into mining-dutch.

I've kind of changed my opinion on zpool due to this quote from their site:

"If a coin is NOT listed on the pool (except BTC) and you still choose to mine with that address, you risk not getting any payments. BTC is the only guaranteed payout currency"

From what I can tell if you select a payout that no one else on the pool wants to mine then you may never get paid. It seems that they will not use an exchange to autotrade your coins the way mining pool hub does.

Instead, I think that on zpool they only send out coins that others on the pool have directly mined. This saves on exchange fees but makes it so you have have extremely delayed payments. You might never get paid if your payout coin falls out of favor from the mining algos.

This means that if you do a mining test, zpool will have a very long tail where it's paying out your credits for several days after you stop mining. Because the coins vary so much in exchange rate this makes it hard to tell what value you actually got from it.

I strongly prefer that mining pool hub will actually exchange to your payout to get your withdrawals faster. There is still a delay but you don't have to manually fiddle to see if your payout coin is not being mined and have to update your miners all the time like you have to with zpool.

[zmago]

I'll look into mining-dutch.

I've kind of changed my opinion on zpool due to this quote from their site:

"If a coin is NOT listed on the pool (except BTC) and you still choose to mine with that address, you risk not getting any payments. BTC is the only guaranteed payout currency"

From what I can tell if you select a payout that no one else on the pool wants to mine then you may never get paid. It seems that they will not use an exchange to autotrade your coins the way mining pool hub does.

Instead, I think that on zpool they only send out coins that others on the pool have directly mined. This saves on exchange fees but makes it so you have have extremely delayed payments. You might never get paid if your payout coin falls out of favor from the mining algos.

This means that if you do a mining test, zpool will have a very long tail where it's paying out your credits for several days after you stop mining. Because the coins vary so much in exchange rate this makes it hard to tell what value you actually got from it.

I strongly prefer that mining pool hub will actually exchange to your payout to get your withdrawals faster. There is still a delay but you don't have to manually fiddle to see if your payout coin is not being mined and have to update your miners all the time like you have to with zpool.

about zpool payouts. yes it's like that. but then again the only "sure" payout is in BTC all other currencies are at your own risk. If there is a fork (this is what happens to me) you won't get any coins or if there is not enough coins you will have to wait for you to get your payment when and if there are enough coins.

if you mine for instance x11 coins there is an option to mine several x11 coins and get payout in LTC (to reduce tx fee, so you don't have to pay btc tx fee). I can suggest you https://www.starpool.biz, atm they are paying 0,00009327 btc per gh. also their neoscrypt mh/day is super good. check out does pools you might see a big difference not just with payouts but also support is on another level. from zpool you hardly get any answer.

[Patriot872]

Ran into this post and had to comment, been running 35 D3's since early november
So far trying better than a 7 various pools, with some conviction i can state atleast for a straight DASH payout, Zpool is 20% more.
I'm not biased and i run rigs everywhere except nicehash, but for DASH Zpool is the only place we are pointing in the immediate term.
Frankly it gets tiring bouncing pools every 15 days, but the payouts don't lie for DASH.
There's always going to be various other instances especially for Alt coins, i can't comment on those only on my first hand knowledge.

The word " Scam " shouldn't be used lightly guys, in a space where unfortunatley we are rampid with far too many true ones.

[Chillaheal]

I've recently concluded my own testing of both Zpool and Mining Pool Hub.

I ran 1x 1070 for 13h on Zpool mining Equihash
I ran 1x 1070 for 13h on MPH mining Equihash
Both at the same time ofcourse, auto exchanging to LTC


Result:
Zpool: 0.006226 LTC
MPH:   0.008767 LTC

A 13h test might be too short to definitivly conclude if 20% is missing or not, but the results definately warrants further investigation.

The answer could be that MPH mined high valued coins like Bitcoin Gold and Zclassic, while Zpool mostly mined Komodo / Bitcoinz. According to the Zpool Equihash table, Bitcoinz should have been more profitable to mine, but if the price spread is too wide when they later sell the coins that could explain the lower profit. If this turns out to be the explanation tho, then Zpool needs to adjust the algorithm that chooses what to mine; if Zpool cant sell the coins for the value they were expected to be sold at, then they should not be mined at all.

[Ahrcoin]

Has anyone heard of anything like this on Minergate?  I mined there a while back and for 24 hours and got like barely anything compared to switching to different pool.  I feel like i have seen some posts on Minergate being sketchy as well.



EtherGrab.us

[coinfoundry]

Ran into this post and had to comment, been running 35 D3's since early november
So far trying better than a 7 various pools, with some conviction i can state atleast for a straight DASH payout, Zpool is 20% more.

Did you give https://coinfoundry.org/pool/dash a try? Our miners are pretty happy with their earnings and the support they receive.

The word " Scam " shouldn't be used lightly guys, in a space where unfortunatley we are rampid with far too many true ones.

I totally agree. This term is used by far too lightly these days. Often times without any fact checking whatsoever.

[Worldtokenindex]

I think Faucet is great idea like NANO with total supply 133 Mil (Same as NANO)