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Author Topic: BIP 148/149 UASF and SegWit  (Read 1603 times)
Ethan_Locke
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June 08, 2017, 06:00:09 PM
 #1

So I thought I would start this topic based upon the many questions that I, and many other users currently have in relation to the upcoming months and potential changes that we are going to see in Bitcoin. My main area of concern is around the potential split, if this where to happen and we were to end up with two separate chains what would happen to Bitcoin in terms of value? Secondly where can my bitcoin be kept safe throughout this period of time? Should i HODL or convert my BTC into another coin?

If there where a split would we see a sudden increase in another specified coin such as Ethereum,Monero or Litecoin?

I know that it is near impossible to predict the exact outcomes however Im eager to gain further insight and hear your thoughts on which proposal is most likely, what each proposal actually means, what you can foresee happening if those changes are made and how we can protect ourselves from any potentially devestating effects.

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June 08, 2017, 06:52:38 PM
 #2

So I thought I would start this topic based upon the many questions that I, and many other users currently have in relation to the upcoming months and potential changes that we are going to see in Bitcoin. My main area of concern is around the potential split, if this where to happen and we were to end up with two separate chains what would happen to Bitcoin in terms of value? Secondly where can my bitcoin be kept safe throughout this period of time? Should i HODL or convert my BTC into another coin?

If there where a split would we see a sudden increase in another specified coin such as Ethereum,Monero or Litecoin?

I know that it is near impossible to predict the exact outcomes however Im eager to gain further insight and hear your thoughts on which proposal is most likely, what each proposal actually means, what you can foresee happening if those changes are made and how we can protect ourselves from any potentially devestating effects.

In case of split, you must keep your bitcoins in a private key that you control. Ideally, you want to run a full node, so download Bitcoin Core from bitcoin.org and you'll be ok.

If there is an actual split and 2 coin situation happen, if you are running a full node, you will receive the same amount of coins you are holding on both chains.

So let's see, you have 10 BTC in your Bitcoin Core wallet, and UASF gets enough miner support to split.

So now you have 10 legacy-chain coins and 10 BIP148-chain coins.

Since you are running a full node, you have total control. You can send your 10 legacy coins in an exchange, and sell them for BIP148 coins.

Or you can download a BIP148 full node, and sell them for legacy-chain coins or whatever you want to do.

I don't know how it exactly works with paper wallets, Trezors etc.

The bottom line is, don't keep the coins in an exchange, because you will not receive coins on both chains unless the exchange is wiling to do that for you.

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June 08, 2017, 07:51:00 PM
 #3

Just to complete what BillyBobZorton said: In case you do not understand much of the subject, keep your Bitcoins and don't do any transaction during the turbulence that we will have if there is a chain split if you want to make sure there is no risks of losing any of your coins.

You can leave them standing in any wallet that you control the private keys, so do not store your coins in any web wallet/exchange.

In my case I will just hold all my BTC and pay attention to the news that will come out during this period so you know what to do, and check both /r/bitcoin and /r/btc for instructions on people's options from both sides.

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June 18, 2017, 03:22:47 AM
 #4

Hello guys ,so this summer(before 1 August) is better have BTC on our wallets ,like Blockchain.info etc ,or withdraw and take USD on bank ,and investing from september/october again ? Which is more profitable ,having BTC during or taking USD for buying again after ? thank you !
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June 18, 2017, 06:49:21 AM
 #5

What can be done for the BTC stored in those 12 key phrase seed wallet (Electrum, Mycelium)? 
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June 18, 2017, 07:03:53 AM
 #6

What can be done for the BTC stored in those 12 key phrase seed wallet (Electrum, Mycelium)? 

First off, if you used Electrum and you have the seeds then you are all good because you have control over your bitcoin. But as more senior members have suggested, since you have control over it, don't touch them until the dust is settled. What worries other is that if you don't have control over your bitcoin and used exchanger as your wallet because we don't know what will happen to your coins there.

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June 18, 2017, 07:23:04 AM
 #7

Hello guys ,so this summer(before 1 August) is better have BTC on our wallets ,like Blockchain.info etc ,or withdraw and take USD on bank ,and investing from september/october again ? Which is more profitable ,having BTC during or taking USD for buying again after ? thank you !

They said that you will be safe as long as you don't do some transactions while the splitting is happening so I think it is better to not move your bitcoin, so it is better to just wait for the August to come. I will just wait for it because after that, I know that it will be pumping again.

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June 18, 2017, 07:32:01 AM
 #8

If a split happens on August 1, and if my coins are stored in the Blockchain.info wallet, how they are going to get affected? I have the private keys to my wallet. Do I need to do something extra? Or should I move my coins to some other wallet?

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June 18, 2017, 08:19:36 AM
 #9

Hello guys ,so this summer(before 1 August) is better have BTC on our wallets ,like Blockchain.info etc ,or withdraw and take USD on bank ,and investing from september/october again ? Which is more profitable ,having BTC during or taking USD for buying again after ? thank you !
Ideally, you'd run a full node to have full control over what happens when there's a split.

If you don't, you'll be relying on a third party to do it for you.  You would have to read up on what the specific wallet says closer to the split.

IMO the price will drop if it looks like the new chain will be relevant, and if it doesn't look that way then the price could stay stable.  I would suggest just holding through in a full node and waiting a few weeks for it to blow over.

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June 18, 2017, 08:31:24 AM
 #10

Since you are running a full node, you have total control. You can send your 10 legacy coins in an exchange, and sell them for BIP148 coins.

Or you can download a BIP148 full node, and sell them for legacy-chain coins or whatever you want to do.

This is trickier than you think.  If you use, say, your 148-coin full node, and you do a transaction of your 148-coin to another address, then that transaction, and that signature, is also perfectly valid on the legacy chain.  As such, the owner of the address to whom you transact your 148-coins, would have all interest to re-transmit exactly the same transaction to legacy nodes and the legacy chain miners, so that the transaction also happens on the legacy chain, and you've lost your legacy version of your coins to exactly the same address under control of the owner.  This is what is called a replay attack.  It is valid both ways.
It is only if you can mix in newly mined coins on one of the two prongs, that a transaction on one prong is invalid on the other prong.  The right way to do it, is by modifying something in the signature scheme on one of the prongs, but that implies a hard fork.  Doing a chain split with a minority soft fork is a cluster fuck.  

It is not because you only run a 148-node, that the transactions it will fabricate, are not valid transactions with valid signatures on the legacy chain and vice versa.  It is even difficult to not do so, because of the soft fork aspect, which requires, exactly, backward compatibility.
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June 18, 2017, 10:35:58 AM
 #11

Is it okay if in August I keep my BTC in bitcoin core wallet?

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June 18, 2017, 11:27:18 AM
 #12

If a split happens on August 1, and if my coins are stored in the Blockchain.info wallet, how they are going to get affected? I have the private keys to my wallet. Do I need to do something extra? Or should I move my coins to some other wallet?

We don't know how blockchain.info will respond to the possible fork in August 1 although you should be able to import your private keys to other wallets.

I suggest you to move your coins to a wallet which you control your coins and have it in your desktop PC or laptop also to be sure you are ready. If you have extra space in your hard disk you can download the latest version of bitcoin core 0.14.2 from bitcoin.org , if not Electrum is the next best choice.
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June 18, 2017, 12:02:38 PM
 #13

So I thought I would start this topic based upon the many questions that I, and many other users currently have in relation to the upcoming months and potential changes that we are going to see in Bitcoin. My main area of concern is around the potential split, if this where to happen and we were to end up with two separate chains what would happen to Bitcoin in terms of value? Secondly where can my bitcoin be kept safe throughout this period of time? Should i HODL or convert my BTC into another coin?

If there where a split would we see a sudden increase in another specified coin such as Ethereum,Monero or Litecoin?

Most likely, people will run for fiat

And they will likely start switching long before the deadline. In fact, they might have already started moving out of Bitcoin. If anything, Litecoin may come eventually as a clear winner from the Bitcoin showdown, especially if things go massively awry with the split, for example, all parties involved start massively dumping their coins. That would wreak total chaos in the market. I don't know about Monero, but I don't think that it is a very popular coin among traders, so it will mostly come out completely unscathed from this predicament. Regarding Ethereum, it may not live up to the day of the split at all

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June 18, 2017, 12:09:10 PM
 #14

It is impossible to know if the markets will shrug this one off and the price of bitcoin will climb back to the $2,700 USD area or even above in the time left before August 1st, 2017.
The price of bitcoin and how the network will work after BIP148 is activated, is not entirely clear either. This is exactly what is at stake now that the Bitmain BIP148 UASF
contingency plan is in place. No one knows if there will be enough mining power behind Core’s chain after the UASF. On the other hand, no one knows how many nodes will switch over to
the chain with the bigger blocks that Bitmain proposes.
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June 18, 2017, 12:25:29 PM
 #15

Imho, with all the newbies and new $$$ into btc in2017, a split will tank the price below $1,000 usd.

It would be a reset to 2016 end of year prices. The $$$ out of btc

would flow to Alts and cash.

It will be lemming cliff diving, by the masses.


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June 18, 2017, 12:34:47 PM
 #16

So I thought I would start this topic based upon the many questions that I, and many other users currently have in relation to the upcoming months and potential changes that we are going to see in Bitcoin. My main area of concern is around the potential split, if this where to happen and we were to end up with two separate chains what would happen to Bitcoin in terms of value? Secondly where can my bitcoin be kept safe throughout this period of time? Should i HODL or convert my BTC into another coin?

If there where a split would we see a sudden increase in another specified coin such as Ethereum,Monero or Litecoin?

Most likely, people will run for fiat

And they will likely start switching long before the deadline. In fact, they might have already started moving out of Bitcoin. If anything, Litecoin may come eventually as a clear winner from the Bitcoin showdown, especially if things go massively awry with the split, for example, all parties involved start massively dumping their coins. That would wreak total chaos in the market. I don't know about Monero, but I don't think that it is a very popular coin among traders, so it will mostly come out completely unscathed from this predicament. Regarding Ethereum, it may not live up to the day of the split at all

This is the reason why the price of bitcoin is staying in the middle of $2000 and $2400 right now we haven't even see a mature price of $3000 value, that I think we can reach by the time that date would certainly approach, well I think the safest way to do is to certainly convert all bitcoin to other ALtcoins, sell them, or convert it to fiat, this is simply a hard choice but it is for the benefit of the holder because this of this risky move, but I am still hoping that Segwit will make the right decision and in the end bitcoin will be stable and transaction fee's would be smaller all positive thoughts for the upcoming date!


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June 18, 2017, 01:53:50 PM
 #17

So I thought I would start this topic based upon the many questions that I, and many other users currently have in relation to the upcoming months and potential changes that we are going to see in Bitcoin. My main area of concern is around the potential split, if this where to happen and we were to end up with two separate chains what would happen to Bitcoin in terms of value? Secondly where can my bitcoin be kept safe throughout this period of time? Should i HODL or convert my BTC into another coin?

If there where a split would we see a sudden increase in another specified coin such as Ethereum,Monero or Litecoin?

I know that it is near impossible to predict the exact outcomes however Im eager to gain further insight and hear your thoughts on which proposal is most likely, what each proposal actually means, what you can foresee happening if those changes are made and how we can protect ourselves from any potentially devestating effects.

In case of split, you must keep your bitcoins in a private key that you control. Ideally, you want to run a full node, so download Bitcoin Core from bitcoin.org and you'll be ok.

If there is an actual split and 2 coin situation happen, if you are running a full node, you will receive the same amount of coins you are holding on both chains.

So let's see, you have 10 BTC in your Bitcoin Core wallet, and UASF gets enough miner support to split.

So now you have 10 legacy-chain coins and 10 BIP148-chain coins.

Since you are running a full node, you have total control. You can send your 10 legacy coins in an exchange, and sell them for BIP148 coins.

Or you can download a BIP148 full node, and sell them for legacy-chain coins or whatever you want to do.

I don't know how it exactly works with paper wallets, Trezors etc.

The bottom line is, don't keep the coins in an exchange, because you will not receive coins on both chains unless the exchange is wiling to do that for you.

Ethan, ignore Bob's post.

In case of split, you must keep your bitcoins in a private key that you control. Ideally, you want to run a full node, so download Bitcoin Unlimited from https://www.bitcoinunlimited.info/download (most miners support) or Bitcoin Core from bitcoin.org (2nd most miner support) or Bitcoin Classic (3rd most miners support) https://bitcoinclassic.com/downloads/index.html and it is YOUR CHOICE. DO NOT FOLLOW WHAT BOB TELLS YOU TO DO and you'll be ok. (feel free to add other option i may have missed.)

If there is an actual split and 2 coin situation happen, if you are running a full node, you will receive the same amount of coins you are holding on both chains.

So let's see, you have 10 BTC in your Bitcoin Unlimited or Bitcoin Core or Bitcoin Classic wallet, and UASF gets enough miner support to split.

So now you have 10 legacy-chain (real Bitcoin) coins and 10 BIP148-chain (fake Bitcoin) coins.

Since you are running a full node, you have total control. You can send your 10 BIP148 coins (fake Bitcoin) in an exchange, and sell them for legacy coins (real Bitcoin) if you want to. You can send your 10 legacy coins (real Bitcoin) in an exchange, and sell them for BIP148 coins (fake Bitcoin) if you want to.

The bottom line is, don't keep the coins in an exchange, because you will not receive coins on both chains unless the exchange is wiling to do that for you.

..C..
.....................
........What is C?.........
..............
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ptkvmn
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June 18, 2017, 02:43:49 PM
 #18

I am quite confused on how that blockchain may split and when it may split:

1. Nothing happens before Aug 1, so before Aug 1, no possibility of a split
2. Aug 1 is the soft fork date for SegWit clients not accepting blocks introduced by non-SegWit clients.  This is the confusing part.  How does split happen after this date?  Non-SegWit clients submitting transactions, and confirmed by a bunch of other non-SegWit clients?  Assuming this is true, how many other Non-SegWit clients do it need to actually trigger this split?   
3. There's another date sometime in Nov, that if less than 96% clients supporting SegWit, it will be rolled back.  If split did not occur before Nov and SegWit is rolled back, then no chance to split after Nov.  If SegWit is not rolled back, theoretically split can always happen after Nov although pretty much impossible.

 To summarize, split is possible any time after Aug 1.  If that's true, then the biggest question is under what exact condition the split will occur?  let's say there are 10% clients not SegWit compliant and they continue to send transactions to the network after Aug 1, does that result in a split?  If that's true, I think a split is a very likely event.
xfaqs01
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June 18, 2017, 03:44:11 PM
 #19

"If a hard fork occurs, what will happen to my bitcoins?
Depending on how you store your bitcoins, e.g. desktop wallet, online wallet, exchange…etc, you can expect one of three scenarios:
1. All of your coins will become BTC only
2. All of your coins will become BTU only.
3. Your coins will be doubled, so if you had 2 coins before the fork occurs, you will have 2 BTC and 2 BTU after forking is completed."

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Itty Bitty
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June 18, 2017, 04:38:42 PM
 #20

If a split happens on August 1, and if my coins are stored in the Blockchain.info wallet, how they are going to get affected? I have the private keys to my wallet. Do I need to do something extra? Or should I move my coins to some other wallet?

Good question, I am curious myself.

I have 3 separate blockchain.info wallets.

As a test, I took the seed from one of the blockchain.info wallets and created a new wallet in my Electrum wallet (version 2.8.2) - You can create/restore many separate wallets (different seeds) simultaneously on Electrum.

I was able to see my blockchain.info wallet account in the Electrum wallet, and was able to transact through the new electrum wallet I had just created. When I checked the original blockchain.info wallet, I could see the transaction I had just made through Electrum wallet there as well.

So  I can definitely control the wallet from either blockchain.info or electrum - for now.

But what if the network splits, and blockchain.info follows one chain, and electrum the other? I assume any transaction would be broadcast from that wallets node, so I would then have access to both chains, depending on which wallet I use (blockchain.info or Electrum with the same seed).

That's what logic seems to say, reality may be another story. Can anyone shed some light for us so we can be absolutely sure?
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