Bitmain announces plan to create altcoin if BIP148 succeeds

[pokapeski]

Can we please stop with the "I was in Bitcoin before you and therefore I'm an expert in scaling Bitcoin" & "Satoshis vision"?
These are not arguments!

Please describe how Jihancoin is decentralized? It will be mined by one company only.

Actually we do not know that quite yet. It's difficult to guess who the bitcoin community (whatever the rolo they play) is going to back.
The only deduction I could rightfully make is that the total number of transactions of the 2 chains is going to decrease due to loose of trust in bitcoin-ish cryptostuff and because both, Bigblocking and Segxit, are meassures to tackle bottlenecks in transaction flows. Therefore transaction fees are to fall. we all should cheer about that, at least, no matter if you are a user, a holder, a miner or a trader.

It is also soon to value the impact on bitcoin public image.

[The One]

i've been also wondering why bitmain is pro segwit with litecoin, but they are against segwit with bitcoin

i think the answer is clear now, with litecoin they have not all the fee because there is no delay in transactions due to the block being already 4 x before segwit

with bitcoin yes, so they are just greedy miners  that want more money and nothing more

If Bitmain want bigger blocks, Jihan said many times he wants bigger blocks, then why do people go on about bigger fees, greedy, etc. Bigger blocks will result in lower fees but more transactions. The increases in transaction means more accumulation of lower fees. This is a win win for miners and users. Presently miners are the winners and the users are the losers due to 1mb limit.

Jihan can say he wants to take a bite out of the moon because its made of green cheese, that don't mean he really wants to do that or that he really believes it. What Jihan really wants is control over Bitcoin so he can make more money. All of his actions have been to this effect.

That is nothing but baseless rumour. Evidence please.

Basically we have too much anti-chinese thing going on.

[deisik]

Jihan can say he wants to take a bite out of the moon because its made of green cheese, that don't mean he really wants to do that or that he really believes it. What Jihan really wants is control over Bitcoin so he can make more money. All of his actions have been to this effect.

That is nothing but baseless rumour. Evidence please

What evidence do you actually need?

Everyone and his hungry dog want to make more money. Do you need evidence for that too, especially when you have a lot at stake in something? Jihan has likely invested millions of dollars in ASICs, and now you essentially claim that him wanting to protect his investments and earn more money is a baseless rumor. I understand that Jihan's shills know no limits in arguing virtually anything that goes against their master's agenda but they should certainly care not to sound like complete dumbasses at that

[chek2fire]

https://blog.bitmain.com/en/uahf-contingency-plan-uasf-bip148/

Bitmain is announcing that if BIP148 succeeds, then they are essentially going to mine a new SHA-256 altcoin instead of Bitcoin. If you don't do anything, it'll be as if mining power dropped somewhat, but you'll otherwise be completely unaffected.

I feel like some people might read this statement as trying to force a decision between Bitmain's altcoin and BIP148, but you should be roughly equally unaffected whether or not you enforce BIP148. It might help BIP148's chances a little due to removing Bitmain from consideration and therefore increasing the chances of activating the traditional BIP141 SegWit deployment, though I continue to be pessimistic about BIP148's chances; I consider continuation of the status-quo and a somewhat later BIP149 UASF as the most likely outcome.

I kinda doubt that they're actually going to stick by what they say here, but if they do, it only seems like good news. If you'd like to use a currency controlled by a single company that puts its ability to use its patented Asicboost tech above all other considerations, feel free! I'll stick with Bitcoin, thank you very much.

Actually, after a dangerous *soft fork* split with a minority hash rate, there's in fact nothing else to do for the initial majority legacy chain than to protect itself by a hard fork.  I said this a few weeks ago already.  

A soft fork imposes itself onto everybody if it is majority.  As such, a soft fork that starts out as (large) majority before being activated is not a problem from a chain splitting point of view, because the minority of miners that would like to continue the legacy chain are DIRECTLY orphaned.  This was the principle behind soft forks and things like 95% majorities.  The user will not see any difference: the chain seems to continue, and has uniformly switched to the new protocol.

A bilateral hard fork is a "clean split".  Yes, the chain splits, but once you have your two new coins, they live their independent lives happily.  You can trade them on exchanges, and by doing so, you vote with your money ; hash rate will follow.  See ETC/ETH.

However, BIP148 is a major cluster fuck: it wants to instore a chain split with a soft fork, where the soft fork is a minority split.  The whole idea of BIP148 is that bitcoin splits, that two bitcoins are listed on exchanges, and that, so is the hope, users will buy 148-bitcoin, and dump their legacy bitcoins, attracting more and more hash rate to 148-bitcoin, until it gains majority.  After a while, the 148-coin chain takes over the legacy chain, and orphans them.  But that can happen after a month or so, and all people having transacted on the legacy chain (in buying/selling coins on exchanges) suddenly see their chain (and their holdings on it) disappear !

This is a clusterfuck that should be avoided: once the two coins are appearing on exchanges, one should consider them independent, to protect the holdings of people on each chain (as well as for exchanges to be able to respect their customers and let them withdraw coins of the types they bought IOU of).  This is why in such a case, the legacy chain has NO CHOICE but to hard fork, to protect itself from re-organization, and to keep the split permanent, to turn the dangerous soft fork split into a bilateral hard fork.  Note that this could be done with a very minor modification, that doesn't even alter anything to the original chain (but honestly, if one does a HF, one could take the opportunity to increase the block limit too).  It would even be wise, in this HF, to alter slightly the signature scheme, to avoid the night mare of replay attacks, which would make it almost impossible to do what 148-coin wants people to do: to sell their legacy bitcoin, and to buy 148-bitcoin.  Because with replay attacks (especially with a soft fork !) they will have a hard time NOT selling at the same time, their 148 coins.

In other words: bip 148 is such a mess if ever it gets activated, that the only way to clean it out, is to have the legacy chain HF and make the split clean.

imo all of this forks has not future especially without a replay attack. Exchanges will do days to trade them and of course legacy chain will survive.
As is say i will be very happy if this guys fork from bitcoin. If bitmain leave from bitcoin the network  hashrate will go back 4-5 months and if all of the miners that support bitmain leave like Viabtc, BTCTOP then the hashrate will be like 6 months before.
That means nothing happens and bitcoin network can easily move on.  
I am very sure the most Bitmain competitors wish right now this to happen to get their place.
August will be a very interest months especially to the economical game theory view.

[Amph]

i've been also wondering why bitmain is pro segwit with litecoin, but they are against segwit with bitcoin

i think the answer is clear now, with litecoin they have not all the fee because there is no delay in transactions due to the block being already 4 x before segwit

with bitcoin yes, so they are just greedy miners  that want more money and nothing more

If you think that is the answer, then you're just as uninformed. The main reason is covert ASICBOOST.

mmh could be apparently the exploit is not possible on other algo for now, but nothing say that it could not be possible in the future, behind the asic of litecoin, there is always bitmain

so in the future they might regret choosing segwit on litecoin, if they will able to find a similar exploit, still the fee ar enot negligeable, they provide an income which is on par or at least very near with asicboost of 20%

[The One]

Jihan can say he wants to take a bite out of the moon because its made of green cheese, that don't mean he really wants to do that or that he really believes it. What Jihan really wants is control over Bitcoin so he can make more money. All of his actions have been to this effect.

That is nothing but baseless rumour. Evidence please

What evidence do you actually need?

Everyone and his hungry dog want to make more money. Do you need evidence for that too, especially when you have a lot at stake in something? Jihan has likely invested millions of dollars in ASICs, and now you essentially claim that him wanting to protect his investments and earn more money is a baseless rumor. I understand that Jihan's shills know no limits in arguing virtually anything that goes against their master's agenda but they should certainly care not to sound like complete dumbasses at that

Evidence Jihan wants control over Bitcoin.

I have nothing against people making money. I am against people trying to destroy/limit Bitcoin.

[forevernoob]

Evidence Jihan wants control over Bitcoin.

I have nothing against people making money. I am against people trying to destroy/limit Bitcoin.

The danger here is centralization. Having only a few people controlling mining is not good at all.

[chek2fire]

this pic is for everyone that has the illusion that will survive after an economical disaster of bitcoin after Bitmain ridiculous action

[chek2fire]

[dinofelis]

i've been also wondering why bitmain is pro segwit with litecoin, but they are against segwit with bitcoin

I think they are essentially against the idea that the block limit of 1 MB should remain.  Segwit as such they don't care too much about.  I think the question is rather in the other direction: why are segwit supporters (Core essentially) AGAINST block size increase ?  The two main arguments they advance for this:
- only soft forks because hard forks could lead to a chain split
- there should be many full nodes to keep bitcoin decentralized, and bigger blocks will kill full nodes

are bogus.

They are bogus because a well-done HF is much less of a danger to split the chain, than an aggressive, non-consensual soft fork, and UASF is the prime example of this ; and they are bogus because first of all non-mining full nodes have no consensus decision power, but moreover, the trick with the witness data is de facto increasing the amount of data that the full checking nodes would need to vehicle, so while a few years ago, "increasing the data flow" to 2 MB was out of the question because of the poor full nodes, now, 4 MB is not a problem if it are "witness data".

We clearly see that in all of this, there is only one single agenda: pushing people out of legacy transactions because of artificial block chain restrictions.

And all of this has nothing to do with "decentralization" (that is, many non-colluding entities having individual decision power): the decisions in bitcoin are in any case taken by a very small oligarchy of mining pools.  That's the bare reality of the state of decentralization in bitcoin.  

Litecoin was different, because 1) litecoin can be seen as a toy/testing bed so that people wanting to play with segwit can have their coin to play with ; there was no desire in Litecoin to keep small blocks for ever by Lee.  It would have been silly to require larger blocks when the current blocks are only filled at the percentage level.

[RealBitcoin]

this pic is for everyone that has the illusion that will survive after an economical disaster of bitcoin after Bitmain ridiculous action

That is not proof, that is just speculator money.

The altcoins will easily survive because the specs know that they will have to put back their money.

Where will they go stocks, bonds? Bullshit, they will go back into altcoins, and leave bitcoin to die.

[pinkflower]

If the chain splits, it will be bad from an image perspective for BTC. Pride destroyed whats supposed to be a brilliant master piece.

I'm not sure I'd call it much of a chain split myself. It's one tumour going off to do its own thing while everyone else does theirs. I will not be doing business with a chain entirely controlled by one person.

This little fella seems to be condemned to keep attempting the same thing in a different form forever. He should be put out of his misery for his own sake or be left to go off and play with himself on his own.

Thats true, but it could get messy. Who knows what the little fella will do. He could be talking with the other miners to join him right now.

[chek2fire]

this pic is for everyone that has the illusion that will survive after an economical disaster of bitcoin after Bitmain ridiculous action

That is not proof, that is just speculator money.

The altcoins will easily survive because the specs know that they will have to put back their money.

Where will they go stocks, bonds? Bullshit, they will go back into altcoins, and leave bitcoin to die.

yeah we see this clearly every time something happen to bitcoin.
If something happens to Bitcoin will be a bloodpath for everyone and this a reality

[European Central Bank]

Thats true, but it could get messy. Who knows what the little fella will do. He could be talking with the other miners to join him right now.

other miners should be less blinded by their controlling desires and realise if they decide to try and impose their will on users they ain't gonna have anything to mine.

[RealBitcoin]

this pic is for everyone that has the illusion that will survive after an economical disaster of bitcoin after Bitmain ridiculous action

That is not proof, that is just speculator money.

The altcoins will easily survive because the specs know that they will have to put back their money.

Where will they go stocks, bonds? Bullshit, they will go back into altcoins, and leave bitcoin to die.

yeah we see this clearly every time something happen to bitcoin.
If something happens to Bitcoin will be a bloodpath for everyone and this a reality

You dont understand , that money is just speculator money, they will move back and forth like idiots.

The good capital is already tied down in altcoins, probably in cold storages. Those are most likely some crazy gamblers gambling away their savings in altcoins in exchanges.

SO there is no reason to not think that that money wont come back. They wont put it in real estate, stocks, or bonds, they will come back into altcoins.

A 30% price swing is nothing, I have seen much bigger swings here, so I dont know why people are worried.

[mindrust]

they will go back into altcoins, and leave bitcoin to die.

Bitcoin is dying? They tried to kill bitcoin 129 times. Maybe they will succeed with the 130th time who knows?  
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-02/they-tried-kill-bitcoin-129-times-each-time-it-came-back-even-stronger

Bitcoin is losing blood since February not denying it but when we get rid of its cancer, we'll get back to where we were before. Bitcoin's name itself has enough brand value to make it number 1.

After we get segwit, we'll land on the moon once again.

These artificial debates are only creating more buy opportunities.

#UASF

[bitcoinisbest]

There have being rumors though years about bitcoin dying and those rumors still persists with the only fact that it will increase the value along with its usefulness to people. Japan has not just made it legally now but they would have thought about it and then took their decision so will now other country follows which will make its value rise further.

[chek2fire]

[Red-Apple]

i can only dream of the day when we can get a bitcoin without drama so that maybe we can focus on what matters most instead of childish games of different people pulling at bitcoin!
miners to gain more money,
traders to gain more money,
altcoin pumpers to gain more money while spreading FUD about bitcoin,
...

[chek2fire]

the situation is not very good for bitmain atm