Bitmain announces plan to create altcoin if BIP148 succeeds

[mindrust]

What if the late game boss isn't Jihan or Roger? What if they are only puppets? What if we are fighting against a central bank? And what if this bank is located in China?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-15/peoples-bank-china-manipulating-bitcoin-price

And what does it change?

If Jihan actually sold his soul to his fiat masters (which is quite possible), they might be looking for a chance to irreparably damage Bitcoin (given the mining capacity this dude possesses), but then we have to answer the question why he is not using his power immediately to hurt Bitcoin right now or hasn't already used it. What does it give to him to postpone his attack against Bitcoin (if he was given this task, of course)?

You think it could be a large bluff? 

I'm no expert but to me it look like he's trying to scare the rest of bitcoiners to his way of thinking?

He don't want to hurt bitcoin as long as bitcoin benefits China/Bitmain. He wants to control bitcoin which is going end up as hurting bitcoin.

To have control over bitcoin without hurting it, he is lying about everything he can. If common people can't run nodes and only corporations which can afford to buy expensive computers do, how's that decentralized?

He is lying constantly to cover his evilness and trying to get people by his side. Bitcoin users ain't morons luckily.

The best thing BU coiners can ever do is dumping all their Bitcoins coins for BTU's and stay there forever. I don't care if the price crashes to 100$.

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[franky1]

What if the late game boss isn't Jihan or Roger? What if they are only puppets? What if we are fighting against a central bank? And what if this bank is located in China?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-15/peoples-bank-china-manipulating-bitcoin-price

lol typical misdirecting...

guess who puppet masters the exchanges
btc china's exchange
coinbase
itbit
korbit
kraken

answer:
DCG.co/portfolio
(bscartel)

[chek2fire]

What if the late game boss isn't Jihan or Roger? What if they are only puppets? What if we are fighting against a central bank? And what if this bank is located in China?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-15/peoples-bank-china-manipulating-bitcoin-price

lol typical misdirecting...

guess who puppet masters the exchanges
btc china's exchange
coinbase
itbit
kraken

answer:
DCG.co
(bscartel)

blah blah blah...blockstream.... blah, blah, blah....blockstream...
you are very boring dude. You must find something different.

[CardShare]

What if the late game boss isn't Jihan or Roger? What if they are only puppets? What if we are fighting against a central bank? And what if this bank is located in China?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-15/peoples-bank-china-manipulating-bitcoin-price

And what does it change?

If Jihan actually sold his soul to his fiat masters (which is quite possible), they might be looking for a chance to irreparably damage Bitcoin (given the mining capacity this dude possesses), but then we have to answer the question why he is not using his power immediately to hurt Bitcoin right now or hasn't already used it. What does it give to him to postpone his attack against Bitcoin (if he was given this task, of course)?

You think it could be a large bluff? 

I'm no expert but to me it look like he's trying to scare the rest of bitcoiners to his way of thinking?

He don't want to hurt bitcoin as long as bitcoin benefits China/Bitmain. He wants to control bitcoin which is going end up as hurting bitcoin.

To have control over bitcoin without hurting it, he is lying about everything he can. If common people can't run nodes and only corporations which can afford to buy expensive computers do, how's that decentralized?

He is lying constantly to cover his evilness and trying to get people by his side. Bitcoin users ain't morons luckily.

The best thing BU coiners can ever do is dumping all their Bitcoins coins for BTU's and stay there forever. I don't care if the price crashes to 100$.

[franky1]

blah blah blah...blockstream.... blah, blah, blah....blockstream...
you are very boring dude. You must find something different.

seems you want to keep your head in the sand and ignore it even when dcg admit they have ownership of the exchanges.

P.S you will never be a firefighter if you check for fire by sticking your head in the sand. all you will do is get your ass burned

go read any article on coindesk talking about exchanges and you will see it

Disclosure: CoinDesk is a subsidiary of Digital Currency Group, which has an ownership stake in Coinbase.

Disclosure: CoinDesk is a subsidiary of Digital Currency Group, which has an ownership stake in Xapo.

Disclosure: CoinDesk is a subsidiary of Digital Currency Group, which has an ownership stake in BTCC.

Disclosure: CoinDesk is a subsidiary of Digital Currency Group, which has an ownership stake in Circle.

Disclosure: CoinDesk is a subsidiary of Digital Currency Group, which has an ownership stake in Paxos.

Disclosure: CoinDesk is a subsidiary of Digital Currency Group, which has an ownership stake in Ripple.

Disclosure: CoinDesk is a subsidiary of Digital Currency Group, which has an ownership stake in BitOasis, Coinbase, Korbit, ShapeShift and Zcash.

here is the kicker

Disclosure: CoinDesk is a subsidiary of Digital Currency Group, which helped organize the SegWit2x proposal. DCG also has an ownership stake in Abra, Blockstream and Bloq.

http://www.coindesk.com/bip-148-segwit2x-bitcoin-scaling-compromise-might-not-easy/

[chek2fire]

blah blah blah...blockstream.... blah, blah, blah....blockstream...
you are very boring dude. You must find something different.

seems you want to keep your head in the sand and ignore it even when dcg admit they have ownership of the exchanges.

P.S you will never be a firefighter if you check for fire by sticking your head in the sand. all you will do is get your ass burned

go read any article on coindesk talking about exchanges and you will see it

Disclosure: CoinDesk is a subsidiary of Digital Currency Group, which has an ownership stake in Coinbase.

Disclosure: CoinDesk is a subsidiary of Digital Currency Group, which has an ownership stake in Xapo.

Disclosure: CoinDesk is a subsidiary of Digital Currency Group, which has an ownership stake in Circle.

Disclosure: CoinDesk is a subsidiary of Digital Currency Group, which has an ownership stake in Paxos.

Disclosure: CoinDesk is a subsidiary of Digital Currency Group, which has an ownership stake in Ripple.

here is the kicker

Disclosure: CoinDesk is a subsidiary of Digital Currency Group, which helped organize the SegWit2x proposal. DCG also has an ownership stake in Abra, Blockstream and Bloq.

http://www.coindesk.com/bip-148-segwit2x-bitcoin-scaling-compromise-might-not-easy/

[forevernoob]

@franky1

Even if the blockstream conspiracy was true I still don't understand how you would prefer a Jihancoin?

[franky1]

@franky1

Even if the blockstream conspiracy was true I still don't understand how you would prefer a Jihancoin?

funny part is i dont..

jihan coin is an altcoin..

even jihan admits he is crating an altcoin..

im for sticking with a real decentralise distributed no control bitcoin..

not BScoin
not jihancoin

anyway, jihancoin is the exact thing the BScartel have been crying, begging and demanding anything not bscartel to do ('f**k off')
but i do laugh where people now panic and worry and blame the non bscartel for going in a different direction even after the bscartel sheep begged for it for years..


even funnier part is that people are stupid enough to think is BScartels way or another brands way...
stupid fools forget that bitcoin is meant to work without brands owning controlling bitcoin.

stupid fools think because i hate brand BS must mean i want brand _

which is where they fail every year to pidgeon hole me into any group they can use to distract the real centralisation

in short i do not belong to any corp.. but some small minded people cannot conceive such a notion that bitcoin can survive without corporate puppeteers

[forevernoob]

funny part is i dont..

jihan coin is an altcoin.. the exact thing the BScartel have been crying, begging and demanding anything not bscartel to do ('f**k off')
but i do laugh where people now panic and worry and blame the non bscartel for going in a different direction even after the bscartel sheep begged for it for years..


even funnier part is that people are stupid enough to think is BScartels way or another brands way...
stupid fools forget that bitcoin is meant to work without brands owning controlling bitcoin.

stupid fools think because i hate brand BS must mean i want brand _

which is where they fail every year to pidgeon hole me into any group they can use to distract the real centralisation

in short i do not belong to any corp.. but some small minded people cannot conceive such a notion that bitcoin can survive without corporate puppeteers

So you support status quo? I thought you were a big blocker...

[franky1]

So you support status quo? I thought you were a big blocker...

status quo?

damn you really have been hypnotised
seems you think there is only option BScoin or option jihan coin.

i think its time you put reddit on your blocked site list, for your own mental health sake

[deisik]

What if the late game boss isn't Jihan or Roger? What if they are only puppets? What if we are fighting against a central bank? And what if this bank is located in China?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-15/peoples-bank-china-manipulating-bitcoin-price

And what does it change?

If Jihan actually sold his soul to his fiat masters (which is quite possible), they might be looking for a chance to irreparably damage Bitcoin (given the mining capacity this dude possesses), but then we have to answer the question why he is not using his power immediately to hurt Bitcoin right now or hasn't already used it. What does it give to him to postpone his attack against Bitcoin (if he was given this task, of course)?

You think it could be a large bluff? 

I'm no expert but to me it look like he's trying to scare the rest of bitcoiners to his way of thinking?

Anything which is somehow linked to Jihan is basically a big pile of lies

The problem is that we don't know what is going on behind the scenes for the most part but you can be pretty sure that what is said or declared (like Jihan going to fork Bitcoin) has very little to do with real intentions. Could this issue be somehow coped with? Absolutely. You should just follow the economic interests of the groups behind promoted proposals. We might not know the interests of some of these groups but miners are certainly interested in keeping the current status quo. So if they say something which is going to change it, you can be pretty certain that this is not what they actually think or intend to do

seems you think there is only option BScoin or option jihan coin

It's time to choose, time to choose

[mindrust]

i think its time you put reddit on your blocked site list, for your own mental health sake

Nope, I blocked you instead. 

[franky1]

seems you think there is only option BScoin or option jihan coin

It's time to choose, time to choose

i see it as just temporary drama of finger pointing.

best option i can see

Bscartel and their sheep jump over to litecoin and stop pulling the bitcoin puppet strings and take all their drama with them to litecoin.org

and then those that want proper bitcoin as it was intended where no one has control, where consensus is the mechanism of upgrades and growth can carry on as if it was pre 2014 again(pre corporate drama)

[forevernoob]

So you support status quo? I thought you were a big blocker...

status quo?

damn you really have been hypnotised
seems you think there is only option BScoin or option jihan coin.

i think its time you put reddit on your blocked site list, for your own mental health sake

Isn't "BScoin" what we have now though? Blockstream handles most of the development of Bitcoin.
So that's really not a option IMO.

Care to explain what option you support then?

[DooMAD]

So it is ok if others start a fork using UASF or Core developers getting their way.

False equivalence.

Arguable.  BIP141 is fine and perfectly legitimate if it activates as intended.  148, however, is an entirely different proposition and I'll throw in one of the OP's own quotes from much earlier in the scaling conflict to explain what I mean by that:

Activating a hardfork based on what miners do is really bad. You could easily have a situation where 75% of miners support XT but none of the big Bitcoin exchanges or businesses do. Then miners would start mining coins that they couldn't spend anywhere useful, and SPV users would find that they can't transact with the businesses they want to deal with. The currency would be split, and in this case XT would be in a far weaker position than Bitcoin. The possibility of this sort of network/currency split is what makes XT not a "legitimate hardfork", but rather the programmed creation of an altcoin ^(*). A consensus hardfork can only go forward once it has been determined that it's nearly impossible for the Bitcoin economy to split in any significant way. Not every Bitcoin user on Earth has to agree, but enough that there won't be a noticeable split.

Bitcoin is not ruled by miners. In a hardfork, miners barely matter at all. (Softforks are different.) What's important is what the economy does.

^(*) bolded emphasis mine

BIP148 is far more likely to result in a forced and contentious split than 141 is, with all of the associated drawbacks listed above.  The economy and miners have to be in agreement with 141.  Whereas with 148, it's not a true consensus if you have to effectively disregard the users securing the chain by mining it.  It might be called a soft fork, but it is almost guaranteed to result in a hardfork.  So a comparison with Bitmain's proposed hardfork is apt in my personal view.


//EDIT:

Care to explain what option you support then?

Perhaps it might be an idea to take the layout of the giant image and make a post or thread collating everyone's own preferences for each proposal.

	BIP141	BIP148	BIP149	SegWit2x	Extension Blocks	SegWit Adaptive/BIP106	BU/EC	Bitmaincoin
DooMAD	Acceptable	No	Weak	Acceptable	Deficient	Prefer	No	Fuck No
next person	etc	etc	etc	etc	etc	etc	etc	no

//EDIT:

If anyone wants me to add them, see this new thread and please post in the specified format (preferably still in the code tags).

[franky1]

He's made it well known he supports BU.

many said in 2014 i supported xt, then it was classic, then it was something else now its BU..

short story, just because i despise the BS cartel does not mean there is only one other option..

things like dynamics are not a patent or product of BU.. many different implementations have and can use dynamics.
once you stop reading reddit and start doing proper research you will start to see the bigger picture

if the only options you can see is people belonging to brands... you have failed to understand the purpose of what bitcoin was invented for.
if the only options you can see is people belonging to brands... then you might aswell go play with paypal

anyway to rein the topic back....
what is the big deal if jihan does make an alt..
isnt that exactly what the bscartel sheep have been screaming for in the first place.. for anything not bscartel to "f**k off"

[btemtd]

15 pages dammit I've been a miner since 2013 and dropped out after 1 year ... I was mining Alt coins for btc as btw was ridiculous for small.man to mine... that lasted 1  year

Is any body else thinking btc will crash so hard  that many whales will sell AND it will drop to a 300 btc a new low. Why do people think it's going.to.5k.or.10k.... I'm not.getting.it . And im embarrassed that we all.want decentralized but we can't agree on a important yet so simple fix that we risk destroying  btc just because we sound like siblings fighting for what dinner is on tonights dinner table

Ps. Why isn't EVERYBODY WORRIED I'm preparing to sell.all my btc all because  a bunch of kids can't  on something .MANY altcoins have done successfully.  Example imagine you had 60-70 btc you bought at 250 a pop and you watched it rise to almost 4000aud whilat reading all these things about this childish civil war. ITS OBVIOUS WE NEED BIGGER BLOCK SIZES FFS WHAT THE HELL IS A FEW TRANSACTIONS A SECOND... GEEEZ. ANYHOW you see a date of August 1st something big is going to happen.. you look at your built up assets in btc and decide to exit and wait till everyone has their head together and rejoin if btc is at a good price. Now I'm not a whale. Is every1 thinking about all the Wales that are thinking the same way. I mean 2 separate bitcoin wtf is that shit where the fuck is my btc going to sit on which chain.. is the price going up or down on this ahh fk it ima sell to be on the safe  side and comeback hopefully when they have sorted the code.

I gurantee you huge investors will pour out ans btc will plummet. This is worse than mt gox this is a war in bitxoin itself. The public will never trust bro for a lomggggg time by then a new coin will take the lights and good bye btc   

[forevernoob]

Perhaps it might be an idea to take the layout of the giant image and make a post or thread collating everyone's own preferences for each proposal.

	BIP141	BIP148	BIP149	SegWit2x	Extension Blocks	SegWit Adaptive/BIP106	BU/EC	Bitmaincoin
DooMAD	Acceptable	No	Weak	Acceptable	Deficient	Prefer	No	Fuck No
next person	etc	etc	etc	etc	etc	etc	etc	no

If anyone wants me to add them, post in the following format (preferably still in the code tags):

Code:

[tr]
[td]Name[/td]
[td]BIP141 opinion[/td]
[td]BIP148 opinion[/td]
[td]BIP149 opinion[/td]
[td]SegWit2x opinion[/td]
[td]Extension Blocks opinion[/td]
[td]SegWit Adaptive/BIP106 opinion[/td]
[td]BU/EC opinion[/td]
[td]Bitmaincoin opinion[/td]
[/tr]

Colours are:

Code:

[glow=#00FF66,2,300]Prefer[/glow]
[glow=green,2,100]Acceptable[/glow]
[glow=yellow,2,300]Deficient[/glow]
[glow=cyan,2,100]Weak[/glow]
[glow=red,2,300]No[/glow]

Can you post this in a new thread? I think it's a cool idea but it is better suited in a new thread.

[franky1]

there are issues with all the bips dooMAD highlighted and coloured..

EG the 106 bip..
there is no need for a consensus rule to go down..

think of blocksize like a hard drive or ram..
even if you have X size.. the actual blocks created do not need to be x size.
nor do you need to downgrade your ram or hard drive if you dont fill the space

for instance lets say you had a 5 terrabyte hard drive.., if in 2 years you only fill 500gb of it, doesnt mean you have to downgrade your hard drive.
you keep the upper limit as is and just not use the spare space.


Eg if a dynamic blocksize went up to 4mb.. pools can just make low demand 1mb blocks after while keeping the 4mb limit..
dropping the limit can cause technical issues like. if a consensus rule drops to 1.5mb .. then any block created over 1.5mb previously when the limit was 4mb could end up getting orphaned and literally ripping out months of historic blocks.

another way to think about it.
imagine it was a 1mb (todays situation but with dynamics). and suddenly pools done empty blocks to make the 1mb rule drop to 0.25mb... suddenly all blocks after 2011 get orphaned due to those blocks being over 0.25mb

much simpler to leave the rule at whatever dynamic size it went UPTO and just let pools make blocks at whatever size below that limit
atleast from a technical point blocks wont get orphaned

[btemtd]

Thats very clear... so basically miners can do that to any BLOCK even the 1mb BLOCK.so now I'm confused ..so why all this debate.. what's this few.transactions  a second debate. R u saying leave how it is and have miners choose? Doubt it cause They must not be doing something right .

Or are u saying change code in yet another way, a way thats Scalable by miner choice?  that's the most common sense idea if that's what ur saying.