Visit to BFL

[PuertoLibre]

Then what is the purpose of the office?

Administration. Like the other guy said, i also work for a large corp. Our admin offices aren't open to the public although we sell to the consumer via retail. Think proctor and gamble, are you going to the corporate office to ask about the toothpaste or whatever they sell? This isn't a new concept.

Corporate offices have a reception area for various reasons.

It is not unheard of to visit one with a complaint or when bringing up an issue that cannot be handled by retail stores.

[1715328002]

1715328002

[minternj]

Then what is the purpose of the office?

Administration. Like the other guy said, i also work for a large corp. Our admin offices aren't open to the public although we sell to the consumer via retail. Think proctor and gamble, are you going to the corporate office to ask about the toothpaste or whatever they sell? This isn't a new concept.

Corporate offices have a reception area for various reasons.

It is not unheard of to visit one with a complaint or when bringing up an issue that cannot be handled by retail stores.

Untrue. My company has over 10 large corp offices in tristate area. At each is a security desk. You arent getting past that. The security guard only job is to see if you have a badge or not. Or call up to  someone if you have a scheduled meeting. BFL has never touted their lcoation as a retail store, so not sure why you would think different. Think online store. Where do you walk to to complain about an amazon.com problem? Can you even find a phone # to talk to a live person? Good luck, ive tried.

[rograz]

CSR stands for Customer Service Representative. Large companies have them. That is who is called when customers show up unexpectedly.
Smaller companies either have sales or marketing, or if really small upper management would handle it.
When a customer shows up with out an appointment it is either a cause for celebration or trouble.
You don't call the cops (unless you have something to hide).
You find out why the person came all that way (writing an article, research for lawsuit, going postal, etc).

You are confusing BFL with a retail business, they are a hardware design firm that just happens to sell to end users. Dealing with people who just show up as a small business is one of the most annoying/time consuming things to deal with on the customer side when you are not in physical retail, independent if you tell them to fuck off or try to meet their requests.

Look at it this way, if you refuse every customer who doesn't make an appointment what will happen?. They will make one if it is important enough. If you rather try to service every damn person who shows up unannounced at your door, you are gonna end up in a situation where the general census becomes that you get better customer service if you walk up to their door and annoy them.

Unless you are brick and mortar there is no benefit of wasting customer service resources on this for "normal customers" when they can't even show the courtesy of making a appointment. It just creates expectations you can't control when you let your customers decide the terms rather than setting them yourself. Sure if Joe with trousers of gold who is 10% of your total business knocks on the door it's a different matter.

But I guess in the US the customer is always right and if you are not satisfied you can always sue for just about anything.

[pheaonix]

CSR stands for Customer Service Representative. Large companies have them. That is who is called when customers show up unexpectedly.
Smaller companies either have sales or marketing, or if really small upper management would handle it.
When a customer shows up with out an appointment it is either a cause for celebration or trouble.
You don't call the cops (unless you have something to hide).
You find out why the person came all that way (writing an article, research for lawsuit, going postal, etc).

You are confusing BFL with a retail business, they are a hardware design firm that just happens to sell to end users. Dealing with people who just show up as a small business is one of the most annoying/time consuming things to deal with on the customer side when you are not in physical retail, independent if you tell them to fuck off or try to meet their requests.

Look at it this way, if you refuse every customer who doesn't make an appointment what will happen?. They will make one if it is important enough. If you rather try to service every damn person who shows up unannounced at your door, you are gonna end up in a situation where the general census becomes that you get better customer service if you walk up to their door and annoy them.

Unless you are brick and mortar there is no benefit of wasting customer service resources on this for "normal customers" when they can't even show the courtesy of making a appointment. It just creates expectations you can't control when you let your customers decide the terms rather than setting them yourself. Sure if Joe with trousers of gold who is 10% of your total business knocks on the door it's a different matter.

But I guess in the US the customer is always right and if you are not satisfied you can always sue for just about anything.

nice imaginative euro shill

fuck customers, amirite?

businesses would be so much better off without customers

[rograz]

businesses would be so much better off without customers

Some customers are not worth it, the sooner you realize this the better. Creating good feedback is overrated for developers/manufacturers, got a product people are prepared to pay for it will sell with proper marketing. Just look at EA Games, if that fuck up of a company when it comes to customer relations is still standing you can get away with pretty much anything, think anyone is going to give a fuck about the Sim City debacle in a years time?

People remember bad products, they rarely remember good customer support in the long run. Spend your efforts accordingly.

[k9quaint]

CSR stands for Customer Service Representative. Large companies have them. That is who is called when customers show up unexpectedly.
Smaller companies either have sales or marketing, or if really small upper management would handle it.
When a customer shows up with out an appointment it is either a cause for celebration or trouble.
You don't call the cops (unless you have something to hide).
You find out why the person came all that way (writing an article, research for lawsuit, going postal, etc).

You are confusing BFL with a retail business, they are a hardware design firm that just happens to sell to end users. Dealing with people who just show up as a small business is one of the most annoying/time consuming things to deal with on the customer side when you are not in physical retail, independent if you tell them to fuck off or try to meet their requests.

Look at it this way, if you refuse every customer who doesn't make an appointment what will happen?. They will make one if it is important enough. If you rather try to service every damn person who shows up unannounced at your door, you are gonna end up in a situation where the general census becomes that you get better customer service if you walk up to their door and annoy them.

Unless you are brick and mortar there is no benefit of wasting customer service resources on this for "normal customers" when they can't even show the courtesy of making a appointment. It just creates expectations you can't control when you let your customers decide the terms rather than setting them yourself. Sure if Joe with trousers of gold who is 10% of your total business knocks on the door it's a different matter.

But I guess in the US the customer is always right and if you are not satisfied you can always sue for just about anything.

You and I think about customers differently.
You seem to see them as a plague that must be avoided.
I see them as a valuable resource to be mined for information about how to improve our products.
The Procter and Gamble headquarters have actual tours you can take, so does the Corning headquarters. I highly recommend both. I wouldn't expect BFL to offer tours for a number of reasons.

But BFL spoke to this guy at length. The behavior I expected would be to have the visitor make an appointment with sales or customer service and return at a later date.
Instead, they rushed someone out to do...what exactly? That is what I find a bit odd. But everything to date with BFL has been a bit odd.

[hexed]

CSR stands for Customer Service Representative. Large companies have them. That is who is called when customers show up unexpectedly.
Smaller companies either have sales or marketing, or if really small upper management would handle it.
When a customer shows up with out an appointment it is either a cause for celebration or trouble.
You don't call the cops (unless you have something to hide).
You find out why the person came all that way (writing an article, research for lawsuit, going postal, etc).

You are confusing BFL with a retail business, they are a hardware design firm that just happens to sell to end users. Dealing with people who just show up as a small business is one of the most annoying/time consuming things to deal with on the customer side when you are not in physical retail, independent if you tell them to fuck off or try to meet their requests.

Look at it this way, if you refuse every customer who doesn't make an appointment what will happen?. They will make one if it is important enough. If you rather try to service every damn person who shows up unannounced at your door, you are gonna end up in a situation where the general census becomes that you get better customer service if you walk up to their door and annoy them.

Unless you are brick and mortar there is no benefit of wasting customer service resources on this for "normal customers" when they can't even show the courtesy of making a appointment. It just creates expectations you can't control when you let your customers decide the terms rather than setting them yourself. Sure if Joe with trousers of gold who is 10% of your total business knocks on the door it's a different matter.

But I guess in the US the customer is always right and if you are not satisfied you can always sue for just about anything.

nice imaginative euro shill

fuck customers, amirite?

businesses would be so much better off without customers

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GaZufPwhFQU/UMRmO0UlVAI/AAAAAAAAD08/3aolwLrrnDE/s1600/eddie-griffin.gif

No.. in fact they were actually nice enough to even come talk to a regular "Joe Shmoe" customer.  Apparently you don't understand what type of business this is.. OR your post was meant to be serious and if that was the case then yes, businesses WOULD be better off without a "very small percent" of customers.  Specifically the ones that drop by unannounced only to ask the same old shit that is typically asked in the forums DAY IN AND DAY OUT.  I don't see how people don't understand this concept.  Just because you are a customer, that has concerns, the SAME concerns every other customer has, and just because you drove some special distance, to see a person on the inside of BFL..WITHOUT an appointment.. doesn't mean they even have to talk to you.  What a monumental level of entitlement to have..

Try going to any other hardware manufacturer.. maybe even 3DFX when they were still around, or AMD, and try to just waltz on in and have an impromptu meeting with anyone and see how far you get.  And before anyone even posts "b-b-b-but AMD doesn't have a product that they have delayed for x months and blah blah" it doesn't matter.  They are still a company.. a company that has absolutely NO customer interfacing capabilities in their physical location, yet someone actually came out and spent ANY amount of time with this guy.  I'm pretty impressed...  some people just have this level of entitlement that just reeks of "I'm an only child and got EVERYTHING I asked for."

Now what I am NOT impressed with is them as a company...period.  Anyone who lets their "Director of communications" get on ANY forum (regardless if he uses his "official" BFL name or not, and start picking fights with EVERY naysayer like a little kid, calling names, instigating, is ridiculous.  There are some supreme dickheads on bitcointalk, but when your "Director of Communications" is in the top 5, that's bad..REALLY bad.  That specific position should be able to do what "cops" do.  Get cursed at, reamed on a daily basis by complete jerks and be as nice as can be to people.  

[PuertoLibre]

Then what is the purpose of the office?

Administration. Like the other guy said, i also work for a large corp. Our admin offices aren't open to the public although we sell to the consumer via retail. Think proctor and gamble, are you going to the corporate office to ask about the toothpaste or whatever they sell? This isn't a new concept.

Corporate offices have a reception area for various reasons.

It is not unheard of to visit one with a complaint or when bringing up an issue that cannot be handled by retail stores.

Untrue.

Uh no, not untrue, those actually exist my friend.

My company has over 10 large corp offices in tristate area. At each is a security desk. You arent getting past that. The security guard only job is to see if you have a badge or not. Or call up to  someone if you have a scheduled meeting.

There are those as well.

One type of setup does not exclude the other.

BFL has never touted their lcoation as a retail store, so not sure why you would think different.

It is true, they do not offer their offices as a retail store. But they do encourage visitations (with a prior notice) and they do offer "pick ups". (see Luke Jr as an example.)

Think online store. Where do you walk to to complain about an amazon.com problem? Can you even find a phone # to talk to a live person? Good luck, ive tried.

Amazon has phone numbers. If you are a Pro Seller though they actually call you upon request. (They switched over to Voip telephony to save on long distance support)

[PuertoLibre]

CSR stands for Customer Service Representative. Large companies have them. That is who is called when customers show up unexpectedly.
Smaller companies either have sales or marketing, or if really small upper management would handle it.
When a customer shows up with out an appointment it is either a cause for celebration or trouble.
You don't call the cops (unless you have something to hide).
You find out why the person came all that way (writing an article, research for lawsuit, going postal, etc).

You are confusing BFL with a retail business, they are a hardware design firm that just happens to sell to end users. Dealing with people who just show up as a small business is one of the most annoying/time consuming things to deal with on the customer side when you are not in physical retail, independent if you tell them to fuck off or try to meet their requests.

Look at it this way, if you refuse every customer who doesn't make an appointment what will happen?. They will make one if it is important enough. If you rather try to service every damn person who shows up unannounced at your door, you are gonna end up in a situation where the general census becomes that you get better customer service if you walk up to their door and annoy them.

Unless you are brick and mortar there is no benefit of wasting customer service resources on this for "normal customers" when they can't even show the courtesy of making a appointment. It just creates expectations you can't control when you let your customers decide the terms rather than setting them yourself. Sure if Joe with trousers of gold who is 10% of your total business knocks on the door it's a different matter.

But I guess in the US the customer is always right and if you are not satisfied you can always sue for just about anything.

There is a problem in your logic, first it is anti-social/anti-customer. Second, the whole idea of having a customer is to sell something, if there is a problem...you actually have to deal with it. If you need to pay a former walmart employee or greeter then do so if it meets the demands of customers. BFL is loaded to the gills with pre-order money. A grand less a month is no big deal.

Third, If you complain, you usually do get prompt customer service. There is no difference between doing it on an email or over the phone, or live in person if your response will always be the same. Which in the case of BFL it apparently is.

-------------------------

Finally, if you sue BFL, you usually have a legitimate reason for that. It usually means you have a case behind it.

The guy who visited implied he has several Mini-Rig orders with one or more purchasing partners. It would imply he has a right to tap on their front glass at their offices to get answers....which he unfortunately got none....with the exception of a bad impression of a situation.

The man who visited also mentioned that those partners are clearly worried about their purchase and may pull the plug on it. Which means it would be extremely reasonable to try to assure those partners with a visit @ BFL offices. Which of course, didn't give him a positive impression.

As far as I can see, to make an appointment you'd need to contact BFL. Consider their email response times are now half a month in some cases. Who here can plan out with good accuracy whether they will or will not be in the neighborhood in a month? Schedules are tricky things...especially if he is from out of town. (which I assume he was)

[rograz]

Third, If you complain, you usually do get prompt customer service. There is no difference between doing it on an email or over the phone, or live in person if your response will always be the same. Which in the case of BFL it apparently is.

Please do head over to Blizzard Entertainment HQ and chat with them about some random issue with their games. Since you know they do run their own web store and therefore it's no different from giving their support a call right? Do tell me how that worked out for you when you are back.

[PuertoLibre]

Third, If you complain, you usually do get prompt customer service. There is no difference between doing it on an email or over the phone, or live in person if your response will always be the same. Which in the case of BFL it apparently is.

Please do head over to Blizzard Entertainment HQ and chat with them about some random issue with their games. Since you know they do run their own web store and therefore it's no different from giving their support a call right? Do tell me how that worked out for you when you are back.

You must be young, you keep referring to game companies.

Despite that, they sell a box with software. BFL sells actual hardware.

Unless...Blizzard Entertainment sells software for 2,500+ dollars? (or 30,000+)

[rograz]

You must be young, you keep referring to game companies.

Ah yes, since I take an interest in the gaming industry and gaming I must surely be a kid. It couldn't be that they are one of the main sources for internet drama when it comes to businesses and drawing parallels to BFL due to similar business approaches is quite easy?

It doesn't matter if they mainly sell software and BFL actual physical hardware. It's that their focus is on the side of bringing products to market and selling them to >end user< is secondary. Since selling to the end user in this case is secondary their prime motivator for doing this "in house" is usually profits, hence we get back to the customers who simply are not worth it, there's a reason most companies outsource their end-user "interactions" to brick and mortar stores.

Customer support is in the end a balance, you can't ignore them, you can't obey their every whim. You simply need to put it on the lowest acceptable level while keeping the damage levels low enough. Unless of course good customer support is a core part of your business model, then this has to be one of the major selling points for your product, but so can price point/quality and just about anything else be. I've heard starting a cult is working quite well for Apple, I rarely hear anyone praise their customer support however.

Despite that, they sell a box with software. BFL sells actual hardware.
Unless...

Blizzard Entertainment sells software for 2,500+ dollars? (or 30,000+)

So why would this box of software not be worthy of in person support while the box of fans is?
Also I'm quite sure I could find  a "box of software" that costs 30k+ from a company that would be less than happy if you came stomping into their office unannounced, but I'm lazy and I admit it so I cba.

Also, does buying an Intel CPU give you the keys to the Intel fabs as well while we are at it? It seems like your logic seems to be pointing in that direction.

[pheaonix]

You must be young, you keep referring to game companies.

Ah yes, since I take an interest in the gaming industry and gaming I must surely be a kid. It couldn't be that they are one of the main sources for internet drama when it comes to businesses and drawing parallels to BFL due to similar business approaches is quite easy?

It doesn't matter if they mainly sell software and BFL actual physical hardware. It's that their focus is on the side of bringing products to market and selling them to >end user< is secondary. Since selling to the end user in this case is secondary their prime motivator for doing this "in house" is usually profits, hence we get back to the customers who simply are not worth it, there's a reason most companies outsource their end-user "interactions" to brick and mortar stores.

Customer support is in the end a balance, you can't ignore them, you can't obey their every whim. You simply need to put it on the lowest acceptable level while keeping the damage levels low enough. Unless of course good customer support is a core part of your business model, then this has to be one of the major selling points for your product, but so can price point/quality and just about anything else be. I've heard starting a cult is working quite well for Apple, I rarely hear anyone praise their customer support however.

Despite that, they sell a box with software. BFL sells actual hardware.
Unless...

Blizzard Entertainment sells software for 2,500+ dollars? (or 30,000+)

So why would this box of software not be worthy of in person support while the box of fans is?
Also I'm quite sure I could find  a "box of software" that costs 30k+ from a company that would be less than happy if you came stomping into their office unannounced, but I'm lazy and I admit it so I cba.

Also, does buying an Intel CPU give you the keys to the Intel fabs as well while we are at it? It seems like your logic seems to be pointing in that direction.

we have now compared intel to bfl

prepare for blastoff

[PuertoLibre]

You must be young, you keep referring to game companies.

Ah yes, since I take an interest in the gaming industry and gaming I must surely be a kid. It couldn't be that they are one of the main sources for internet drama when it comes to businesses and drawing parallels to BFL due to similar business approaches is quite easy?

Sorry, I have only heard of Valve Time® and...whats its name....Duke Nukem Forever.

It doesn't matter if they mainly sell software and BFL actual physical hardware. It's that their focus is on the side of bringing products to market and selling them to >end user< is secondary. Since selling to the end user in this case is secondary their prime motivator for doing this "in house" is usually profits, hence we get back to the customers who simply are not worth it, there's a reason most companies outsource their end-user "interactions" to brick and mortar stores.

I understand that you think customers are not worth the time nor effort of actual customer service.

I don't think many customers would agree with you.

Lets go in a different direction for a sec. Lets say the obvious, BFL sells money printing. Blizzard sells games for entertainment.

Each hour without a Blizzard game means one hour of....doing whatever it that people do in their spare time. Each hour without BFL's ASIC devices equates to lost time in money printing.

---------------

Personally, I don't fault the man for visiting BFL unannounced. He was (apparently heavily invested) and successful in determining the situation to through his own ends and means. It brought him to a point of concern.

Whether we agree that he should or should not have made the appointment, that point simply does not change.

Customer support is in the end a balance, you can't ignore them, you can't obey their every whim.

Understood.

You simply need to put it on the lowest acceptable level while keeping the damage levels low enough.

I cocked an eyebrow at that statement. Remind me not to do vital business with your companies.

Some strive for quality....others....just enough to get by. (Then again, who am I to throw that rock?)

Unless of course good customer support is a core part of your business model, then this has to be one of the major selling points for your product, but so can price point/quality and just about anything else be. I've heard starting a cult is working quite well for Apple, I rarely hear anyone praise their customer support however.

Do you think BFL's customer service is essential or necessary to their business? (Open and serious question.)

Despite that, they sell a box with software. BFL sells actual hardware.
Unless...

Blizzard Entertainment sells software for 2,500+ dollars? (or 30,000+)

So why would this box of software not be worthy of in person support while the box of fans is?
Also I'm quite sure I could find  a "box of software" that costs 30k+ from a company that would be less than happy if you came stomping into their office unannounced, but I'm lazy and I admit it so I cba.

Also, does buying an Intel CPU give you the keys to the Intel fabs as well while we are at it? It seems like your logic seems to be pointing in that direction.

Now we are going from Company Headquarters to Intel Fabs? Usually when someone makes a ridiculous argument it is because their position is weaker than it probably should be. If you don't think so, see above where I mentioned they sell a [virtual] money printing machine. No one can deny it.

-------------------------

The end story is that BFL invites people to come on over....simply not unannounced. Though, it has been known to happen before and BFL does "whatever it does" in the face of that situation.

In this case, Dave could have done alot better. It will no doubt cost his employer some money just as Inaba's attitude has (he has admitted before) cost his company some "marginal" income. (or...so he says)

[PuertoLibre]

You must be young, you keep referring to game companies.

 As much as I enjoy your BFL Master Shillery, I'm going to need to call you on this one. What is wrong with video game companies ? It is conceivable some of us might even work at making video games professionally.

 It's not an appropriate reposte insinuating that video game companies are associated with youngins.

Alright, you whipper snapper. I apologize. 

[Xian01]

Alright, you whipper snapper. I apologize. 

 Who you callin' a whipper-snapper ?! Why I oughta...

[PuertoLibre]

You must be young, you keep referring to game companies.

 As much as I enjoy your BFL Master Shillery, I'm going to need to call you on this one. What is wrong with video game companies ? It is conceivable some of us might even work at making video games professionally.

 It's not an appropriate reposte insinuating that video game companies are associated with youngins.

By the way, if I am in my "MASTER BFL Shill" custume. I always add it as a footer in my messages. Just to make sure people take note of it and don't take it seriously.

For example, I could make the (perfectly rational shill'in) argument that once you give your money to BFL it is now their property. That they don't have to "give it back". They don't even have to contact you anymore. No....you shouldn't even visit them (announced or otherwise) and NEVER expect anything in return.

As far as I am concerned, the customers are giving their payment as "gifts". Yes, you read that right. This is what it is like to be a MASTER BFL Shill. This is my twisted reality and thinking as a Shill of the highest porportions.

If you (the BFL customers out there) complain you are a total "Troll".

(Master BFL Shill) <---  

[smoothie]

You must be young, you keep referring to game companies.

 As much as I enjoy your BFL Master Shillery, I'm going to need to call you on this one. What is wrong with video game companies ? It is conceivable some of us might even work at making video games professionally.

 It's not an appropriate reposte insinuating that video game companies are associated with youngins.

By the way, if I am in my "MASTER BFL Shill" custume. I always add it as a footer in my messages. Just to make sure people take note of it and don't take it seriously.

For example, I could make the (perfectly rational shill'in) argument that once you give your money to BFL it is now their property. That they don't have to "give it back". They don't even have to contact you anymore. No....you shouldn't even visit them (announced or otherwise) and NEVER expect anything in return.

As far as I am concerned, the customers are giving their payment as "gifts". Yes, you read that right. This is what it is like to be a MASTER BFL Shill. This is my twisted reality and thinking as a Shill of the highest porportions.

If you (the BFL customers out there) complain you are a total "Troll".

(Master BFL Shill) <---  

THIS ^ sums up the definition of a true BFL shill.

[Xian01]

As far as I am concerned, the customers are giving their payment as "gifts". Yes, you read that right. This is what it is like to be a MASTER BFL Shill. This is my twisted reality and thinking as a Shill of the highest porportions.
(Master BFL Shill) <---  

 Ain't gonna lie; that made me laugh out loud

[meowmeowbrowncow]

You must be young, you keep referring to game companies.

 As much as I enjoy your BFL Master Shillery, I'm going to need to call you on this one. What is wrong with video game companies ? It is conceivable some of us might even work at making video games professionally.

 It's not an appropriate reposte insinuating that video game companies are associated with youngins.

By the way, if I am in my "MASTER BFL Shill" custume. I always add it as a footer in my messages. Just to make sure people take note of it and don't take it seriously.

For example, I could make the (perfectly rational shill'in) argument that once you give your money to BFL it is now their property. That they don't have to "give it back". They don't even have to contact you anymore. No....you shouldn't even visit them (announced or otherwise) and NEVER expect anything in return.

As far as I am concerned, the customers are giving their payment as "gifts". Yes, you read that right. This is what it is like to be a MASTER BFL Shill. This is my twisted reality and thinking as a Shill of the highest porportions.

If you (the BFL customers out there) complain you are a total "Troll".

(Master BFL Shill) <---  

THIS ^ sums up the definition of a true BFL shill.

There is a word that describes this treatment.  Hustling.

Prostitutes, pimps, grifters....


They take what they can and get away with what they can.