What to do with the wall observer thread?

[kurious]

Ironically I am sort of suspicious of anyone who would want to be 'The Candidate' as I have a distrust of anyone who seeks power, because they are usually just the sort of person who I don't want to have it.

That's part of the problem. Those best able to moderate may not wish to seek approval. I'd put forward a number of people like Elwar, Gentlemand, etc...

excellent points. couldn't agree more

You're right, of course.

But Theymos has played Pontious Pilate and said 'Ok - tell me what you guys want?'

He seems to be saying if we can solve it, he will grant it. So... we cannot be apathetic, we have to offer that solution, or lose the thread.

Can the most anarchic thread on the forum (ironically) find a sensible, acceptable and consensual solution?  I think we could, but only if we all positively try to.

Be quite a thing if we could.   No one is really falling out here, we have a prize to seize - which is simply the status quo.

If any group of people can come together and form a pitch I can roughly agree with, I will stand aside, or offer help accordingly, because I want the WO to continue.

I have probably checked it almost every day for the past few years. I am sure I am not alone.

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[Erkallys]

Ironically I am sort of suspicious of anyone who would want to be 'The Candidate' as I have a distrust of anyone who seeks power, because they are usually just the sort of person who I don't want to have it.

That's part of the problem. Those best able to moderate may not wish to seek approval. I'd put forward a number of people like Elwar, Gentlemand, etc...

excellent points. couldn't agree more

You're right, of course.

But Theymos has played Pontious Pilate and said 'Ok - tell me what you guys want?'

He seems to be saying if we can solve it, he will grant it. So... we cannot be apathetic, we have to offer that solution, or lose the thread.

Can the most anarchic thread on the forum (ironically) find a sensible, acceptable and consensual solution?  I think we could, but only if we all positively try to.

Be quite a thing if we could.   No one is really falling out here, we have a prize to seize - which is simply the status quo.

If any group of people can come together and form a pitch I can roughly agree with, I will stand aside, or offer help accordingly, because I want the WO to continue.

I have probably checked it almost every day for the past few years. I am sure I am not alone.

So for you theymos is waiting for us to propose him a solution ? So then let's reunite and all the candidates - as well as anyone wanting to give it's opinion on the situation - and see what do to.

[kurious]

We might want to consider just sticking with the multiple forked versions. Moderation by committee could very well result in a mess of deleted posts and ruin the free-wheeling spirit of the original we're trying to save.

I think we should try the continuance - the other threads can survive and beat it, if it isn't any good.

Which is a good way to ensure it is like the original as much as possible.

At least now we have some candidates.

I think we're all wary of picking our own dictator, so assuming we agree it can't be one person, what's next?

An open election to pick members of one team, or teams line up around their own team agreement to be voted on as a team?

Theymos might run a poll if we ask him.

And we can always vote for the candidates who don't want to over-police the thread - after all it's what is unique about it, it would surely be popular?

I think that the best idea would be an election amongst the volunteers - and the highest vote getter would get the position, subject to Theymos approving.  Then if the other volunteers want to work with the highest vote getter, then that person could appoint them to help when s/he is going to be absent or unavailable for such duties.

Less of a mess, and surely any winner of the vote would already understand the thread culture to sufficiently identify what constitutes loose, rather than strict moderation.

That is also a solution, but the election would need to get organised by theymos, that would save us from a useless one. So I guess until we have a clarification from him, any proposal is just pure speculation.

For once I think JJG is talking sense.

And I also think presenting a solution as a fait accompli to Theymos is preferable to asking him.

Is it possible for the candidates to gather online (away from here) to hammer something out together?  Even if it only a statement of policy for starters.

[Erkallys]

We might want to consider just sticking with the multiple forked versions. Moderation by committee could very well result in a mess of deleted posts and ruin the free-wheeling spirit of the original we're trying to save.

I think we should try the continuance - the other threads can survive and beat it, if it isn't any good.

Which is a good way to ensure it is like the original as much as possible.

At least now we have some candidates.

I think we're all wary of picking our own dictator, so assuming we agree it can't be one person, what's next?

An open election to pick members of one team, or teams line up around their own team agreement to be voted on as a team?

Theymos might run a poll if we ask him.

And we can always vote for the candidates who don't want to over-police the thread - after all it's what is unique about it, it would surely be popular?

I think that the best idea would be an election amongst the volunteers - and the highest vote getter would get the position, subject to Theymos approving.  Then if the other volunteers want to work with the highest vote getter, then that person could appoint them to help when s/he is going to be absent or unavailable for such duties.

Less of a mess, and surely any winner of the vote would already understand the thread culture to sufficiently identify what constitutes loose, rather than strict moderation.

That is also a solution, but the election would need to get organised by theymos, that would save us from a useless one. So I guess until we have a clarification from him, any proposal is just pure speculation.

For once I think JJG is talking sense.

And I also think presenting a solution as a fait accompli to Theymos is preferable to asking him.

Is it possible for the candidates to gather online (away from here) to hammer something out together?  Even if it only a statement of policy for starters.

As indicated in my above post, if theymos is looking for an already decided consensus rather than the permission to organise something let's do that then. A Telegram group would be suitable to meet I think. Not sure if everyone uses it though.

[kurious]

We might want to consider just sticking with the multiple forked versions. Moderation by committee could very well result in a mess of deleted posts and ruin the free-wheeling spirit of the original we're trying to save.

I think we should try the continuance - the other threads can survive and beat it, if it isn't any good.

Which is a good way to ensure it is like the original as much as possible.

At least now we have some candidates.

I think we're all wary of picking our own dictator, so assuming we agree it can't be one person, what's next?

An open election to pick members of one team, or teams line up around their own team agreement to be voted on as a team?

Theymos might run a poll if we ask him.

And we can always vote for the candidates who don't want to over-police the thread - after all it's what is unique about it, it would surely be popular?

I think that the best idea would be an election amongst the volunteers - and the highest vote getter would get the position, subject to Theymos approving.  Then if the other volunteers want to work with the highest vote getter, then that person could appoint them to help when s/he is going to be absent or unavailable for such duties.

Less of a mess, and surely any winner of the vote would already understand the thread culture to sufficiently identify what constitutes loose, rather than strict moderation.

That is also a solution, but the election would need to get organised by theymos, that would save us from a useless one. So I guess until we have a clarification from him, any proposal is just pure speculation.

For once I think JJG is talking sense.

And I also think presenting a solution as a fait accompli to Theymos is preferable to asking him.

Is it possible for the candidates to gather online (away from here) to hammer something out together?  Even if it only a statement of policy for starters.

As indicated in my above post, if theymos is looking for an already decided consensus rather than the permission to organise something let's do that then. A Telegram group would be suitable to meet I think. Not sure if everyone uses it though.

I already PMd Bitserve to ask if he wanted to organise it, but if you can find a way - go for it and invite all the candidates

[Erkallys]

We might want to consider just sticking with the multiple forked versions. Moderation by committee could very well result in a mess of deleted posts and ruin the free-wheeling spirit of the original we're trying to save.

I think we should try the continuance - the other threads can survive and beat it, if it isn't any good.

Which is a good way to ensure it is like the original as much as possible.

At least now we have some candidates.

I think we're all wary of picking our own dictator, so assuming we agree it can't be one person, what's next?

An open election to pick members of one team, or teams line up around their own team agreement to be voted on as a team?

Theymos might run a poll if we ask him.

And we can always vote for the candidates who don't want to over-police the thread - after all it's what is unique about it, it would surely be popular?

I think that the best idea would be an election amongst the volunteers - and the highest vote getter would get the position, subject to Theymos approving.  Then if the other volunteers want to work with the highest vote getter, then that person could appoint them to help when s/he is going to be absent or unavailable for such duties.

Less of a mess, and surely any winner of the vote would already understand the thread culture to sufficiently identify what constitutes loose, rather than strict moderation.

That is also a solution, but the election would need to get organised by theymos, that would save us from a useless one. So I guess until we have a clarification from him, any proposal is just pure speculation.

For once I think JJG is talking sense.

And I also think presenting a solution as a fait accompli to Theymos is preferable to asking him.

Is it possible for the candidates to gather online (away from here) to hammer something out together?  Even if it only a statement of policy for starters.

As indicated in my above post, if theymos is looking for an already decided consensus rather than the permission to organise something let's do that then. A Telegram group would be suitable to meet I think. Not sure if everyone uses it though.

I already PMd Bitserve to ask if he wanted to organise it, but if you can find a way - go for it and invite all the candidates

So I created a Telegram group and PMd all you five. Now I will wait for you all to come so that we can discuss there.

[veleten]

if it is option 1 then who decides on the person?
think just open it as it was,warn and then ban anyone who goes off-topic on purpose
use this topic as a some sort of a mix of a  barometer and a honeytrap

[marcus_of_augustus]

I think two relatively simple rules will eliminate a lot of the chaff and spam without impacting the 'sensible off-topicness':

1) you need to be Hero or Legendary member or member joined before 2014 to post in WO

2) posts in WO do not add to a poster's Activity Count

This will essentially make it somewhat exclusive for posters who have already earned their stripes elsewhere in the forum, i.e. veterans. And it reflects the make-up and effective purposeful useage of the thread as it stands, long-time posters who are occasionally or regularly checking in on this thread,posting price news, thoughts opinions and sometimes loosely related bitcoin or personal material.

The spamming and attempts at disruption are usually from new accounts who covet the attention provided by the thread. Bashing the Off-topic button seems to be their latest tactic, since that is how they have been shut-out most recently (classic DDOS attack is to exhaust the most effective defence). People might not know of the huge job Lauda has done in the past cleaning up after NotLambChop and shutting out that entity's attack on the WO. The current Off-topic attack is most likely a response to that ... there has probably been collateral damage and Lauda has collected some undeserved ill-will for that previous defence.

NB: I'm not available to mod WO ... but I think you need to get it sorted out quickly, it's not that big of deal if you enforce those two simple rules above you could even put a drunk and his monkey in charge.  

[kurious]

Input appreciated, Marcus.

I think hero and above is a little severe, but valid suggestions.

And if we could have a drunk and a monkey, with our thread back - I am in

[deepcolderwallet]

If option 1 or 3 occur, who are the candidates for new listed owner / mods? Someone please compile a list.

Guys, theymos has explicitly asked for a list of candidates so... can you guys please add your name to the list?

He has not yet stated how the election would be nor if there will be one or many listed owners/mods, but I guess more than one individual would be needed and that we will have some say (maybe even another poll?) on the election.

So anyone willing to help please quote and add your name to the list and, if you want, a description of your moderation style or whatever you feel appropiate. Also feel free to change/modify your own entry (no need to be a single line/paragraph, be as verbose as you want), this is just an example:

lightfoot - "I would go with a largely hands-off option, no directly blasting other people, no posting marketing crap, simple stuff"

yefi - "I'll throw my hat into the ring if there's a shortage though"

arklan - "if mods are needed, i have the time to do it"

kurious - "'Happy to help any team on a part time basis if it will keep the WO going in a fashion as close to its original anarchic form as possible'"

Erkallys - "I candidate if this is needed. At least I have no hatred toward me as well as any fanboy."


P.S.: Missed a candidate (Erkallys) that already expressed his willingness to help. Added him to the list. But please, candidates add yourselves, thanks

Why don't we add the cockroach to the list???
kkkkkkk just kidding, can you imagine the advocate of holocaust installing gas chambers in every corner of the thread?

[deepcolderwallet]

I'm not a prolific poster, or well known personality, but I'd volunteer to help moderate. I started the "unmoderated" wall observer thread because I believe in the laissez-faire nature of Adam's thread.

I wouldn't want the responsibility of being the sole moderator. A small team moderation approach seems like the best idea to me, as long as the mods have a reasonably similar vision for the thread, and what's appropriate. That said, we'd need to agree on some rules. There are fairly strict rules listed in Adam's OP, but they were very loosely enforced. I'd rather see very relaxed rules that are strictly enforced.

So far this guy is my candidate!

[hermanhs09]

IMO the chat section seems interesting. it is pretty much impossible to discuss on the wall observer thread without sort of going off topic sometimes with all the memes and stuff. but w/e theymos does i'm fine with, the problem with getting someone to self moderate is the possibility of censorship.

[kurious]

If option 1 or 3 occur, who are the candidates for new listed owner / mods? Someone please compile a list.

Guys, theymos has explicitly asked for a list of candidates so... can you guys please add your name to the list?

He has not yet stated how the election would be nor if there will be one or many listed owners/mods, but I guess more than one individual would be needed and that we will have some say (maybe even another poll?) on the election.

So anyone willing to help please quote and add your name to the list and, if you want, a description of your moderation style or whatever you feel appropiate. Also feel free to change/modify your own entry (no need to be a single line/paragraph, be as verbose as you want), this is just an example:

lightfoot - "I would go with a largely hands-off option, no directly blasting other people, no posting marketing crap, simple stuff"

yefi - "I'll throw my hat into the ring if there's a shortage though"

arklan - "if mods are needed, i have the time to do it"

kurious - "'Happy to help any team on a part time basis if it will keep the WO going in a fashion as close to its original anarchic form as possible'"

Erkallys - "I candidate if this is needed. At least I have no hatred toward me as well as any fanboy."


P.S.: Missed a candidate (Erkallys) that already expressed his willingness to help. Added him to the list. But please, candidates add yourselves, thanks

Why don't we add the cockroach to the list???
kkkkkkk just kidding, can you imagine the advocate of holocaust installing gas chambers in every corner of the thread?

I just lost it on another thread with him after this:

(Blah blah conspiracy paranoia from r0ach's sick library) Holocaust 2.0 coming soon.

W0w, OK I'm officially never going to talk politics with you! I think you may be officially off your rocker.

I was at Auschwitz / Birkenau 2 weeks ago because I was in Krakow and I wanted to witness just how sick the nazis were for myself.

r0ach wants to do it all over again - I am beyond words.  This is criminally psychopathic, genocidal shit - he is the scum of the earth.

If I was ever in a room with him, I would not be able to stop myself, I hope I never am.  But then he probably lives in his mother's basement so thankfully it's unlikely.

So, in this case I agree on censorship.  Some things are about humanity and morality.  r0ach defiles these simple concepts.

'Holocaust 2.0 coming soon.'

WTF?

[deepcolderwallet]

I think two relatively simple rules will eliminate a lot of the chaff and spam without impacting the 'sensible off-topicness':

1) you need to be Hero or Legendary member to post in WO

2) posts in WO do not add to a posters Activity Count

(... bla bla bla elite supremacist bullshit)

NO!
I'm a full member participating in WO since I was a Newbie and it's been the thread I've most participated, asked and responded in this whole forum.
Turn it in a closed elite club is throwing away A LOT of people who can aggregate. Just to be clear, the guy who's compiling the list and helping most is bitserve, another Full Member just like me.

[bitserve]

If option 1 or 3 occur, who are the candidates for new listed owner / mods? Someone please compile a list.

Guys, theymos has explicitly asked for a list of candidates so... can you guys please add your name to the list?

He has not yet stated how the election would be nor if there will be one or many listed owners/mods, but I guess more than one individual would be needed and that we will have some say (maybe even another poll?) on the election.

So anyone willing to help please quote and add your name to the list and, if you want, a description of your moderation style or whatever you feel appropiate. Also feel free to change/modify your own entry (no need to be a single line/paragraph, be as verbose as you want), this is just an example:

lightfoot - "I would go with a largely hands-off option, no directly blasting other people, no posting marketing crap, simple stuff"

yefi - "I'll throw my hat into the ring if there's a shortage though"

arklan - "if mods are needed, i have the time to do it"

kurious - "'Happy to help any team on a part time basis if it will keep the WO going in a fashion as close to its original anarchic form as possible'"

Erkallys - "I candidate if this is needed. At least I have no hatred toward me as well as any fanboy." - "I would not be too strict on moderation, and I am available all day long."

BlindMayorBitcorn - [No stated "style of moderation" AFAIK. Please update]

infofront - "I'm not a prolific poster, or well known personality, but I'd volunteer to help moderate. I started the "unmoderated" wall observer thread because I believe in the laissez-faire nature of Adam's thread. "



Added BlindMayorBitcorn and infofront. Remember anyone can add themselves and also update the info.

[deepcolderwallet]

Why don't we add the cockroach to the list???
kkkkkkk just kidding, can you imagine the advocate of holocaust installing gas chambers in every corner of the thread?

I just lost it on another thread with him after this:

(Blah blah conspiracy paranoia from r0ach's sick library) Holocaust 2.0 coming soon.

W0w, OK I'm officially never going to talk politics with you! I think you may be officially off your rocker.

I was at Auschwitz / Birkenau 2 weeks ago because I was in Krakow and I wanted to witness just how sick the nazis were for myself.

r0ach wants to do it all over again - I am beyond words.  This is criminally psychopathic, genocidal shit - he is the scum of the earth.

If I was ever in a room with him, I would not be able to stop myself, I hope I never am.  But then he probably lives in his mother's basement so thankfully it's unlikely.

So, in this case I agree on censorship.  Some things are about humanity and morality.  r0ach defiles these simple concepts.

'Holocaust 2.0 coming soon.'

WTF?

He's a clown, his opinions are just to remember us how diverse -for the good and for the evil - this world is.

[marcus_of_augustus]

I think two relatively simple rules will eliminate a lot of the chaff and spam without impacting the 'sensible off-topicness':

1) you need to be Hero or Legendary member to post in WO

2) posts in WO do not add to a posters Activity Count

(... bla bla bla elite supremacist bullshit)

NO!
I'm a full member participating in WO since I was a Newbie and it's been the thread I've most participated, asked and responded in this whole forum.
Turn it in a closed elite club is throwing away A LOT of people who can aggregate. Just to be clear, the guy who's compiling the list and helping most is bitserve, another Full Member just like me.

Quite frankly I don't agree with you and bitserve appointing yourselves somehow as 'moderator selectors' or 'moderator selection process deciders' or whatever you want to call the bullshit elitist process bullies and gatekeepers you have self-appointed yourselves as ...  that really seems like elitist bullshit to me.

So piss off newbie and take your offensive response attitude with you.

[JayJuanGee]

I think two relatively simple rules will eliminate a lot of the chaff and spam without impacting the 'sensible off-topicness':

1) you need to be Hero or Legendary member or member joined before 2014 to post in WO

2) posts in WO do not add to a poster's Activity Count

This will essentially make it somewhat exclusive for posters who have already earned their stripes elsewhere in the forum, i.e. veterans. And it reflects the make-up and effective purposeful useage of the thread as it stands, long-time posters who are occasionally or regularly checking in on this thread,posting price news, thoughts opinions and sometimes loosely related bitcoin or personal material.

The spamming and attempts at disruption are usually from new accounts who covet the attention provided by the thread. Bashing the Off-topic button seems to be their latest tactic, since that is how they have been shut-out most recently (classic DDOS attack is to exhaust the most effective defence). People might not know of the huge job Lauda has done in the past cleaning up after NotLambChop and shutting out that entity's attack on the WO. The current Off-topic attack is most likely a response to that ... there has probably been collateral damage and Lauda has collected some undeserved ill-will for that previous defence.

NB: I'm not available to mod WO ... but I think you need to get it sorted out quickly, it's not that big of deal if you enforce those two simple rules above you could even put a drunk and his monkey in charge.  

The idea of "exclusive" is fairly intriguing, and would likely take a way a lot of the problems - including taxation of moderation - even though there may still be some bought accounts or some of those kinds of possible shills that would come about from time to time.. but likely a lot more rarely with the more senior accounts.

Personally, I am of the inclination that if the WO thread were Full member and above, then there would need to be few other restrictions - and then who ever is the moderator would be quite a bit less taxed, and could exercise discretion when s/he thinks that posters have gone too far... which likely not be very common... and almost as if we wouldn't need a moderator in such circumstances... except these more extreme situations.


In other words, if we go in the exclusive direction, I would suggest either member or Full member and above (and leaning more towards Full member and above)... for participation and voting rights in the thread or related to the thread.

[gentlemand]

I think two relatively simple rules will eliminate a lot of the chaff and spam without impacting the 'sensible off-topicness':

1) you need to be Hero or Legendary member or member joined before 2014 to post in WO

2) posts in WO do not add to a poster's Activity Count

This will essentially make it somewhat exclusive for posters who have already earned their stripes elsewhere in the forum, i.e. veterans. And it reflects the make-up and effective purposeful useage of the thread as it stands, long-time posters who are occasionally or regularly checking in on this thread,posting price news, thoughts opinions and sometimes loosely related bitcoin or personal material.

The spamming and attempts at disruption are usually from new accounts who covet the attention provided by the thread. Bashing the Off-topic button seems to be their latest tactic, since that is how they have been shut-out most recently (classic DDOS attack is to exhaust the most effective defence). People might not know of the huge job Lauda has done in the past cleaning up after NotLambChop and shutting out that entity's attack on the WO. The current Off-topic attack is most likely a response to that ... there has probably been collateral damage and Lauda has collected some undeserved ill-will for that previous defence.

I dig this as an idea. It's by far the most read thread and that's a great way of preserving its freewheeling nature whilst also exterminating a vast amount of the shite at the point of origin and improving its content.

It would instantly reduce the workload by a great deal.

I'd loosen the member requirements though to senior or perhaps full. There are plenty of comparative newcomers with good stuff to offer.

I know younglings may be narked by being excluded but they have elsewhere to play around. I suppose the only issue would be rival threads created by peons that would create the same amount of work again for mods so it would be back to square one to an extent.

[deepcolderwallet]

I think two relatively simple rules will eliminate a lot of the chaff and spam without impacting the 'sensible off-topicness':

1) you need to be Hero or Legendary member to post in WO

2) posts in WO do not add to a posters Activity Count

(... bla bla bla elite supremacist bullshit)

NO!
I'm a full member participating in WO since I was a Newbie and it's been the thread I've most participated, asked and responded in this whole forum.
Turn it in a closed elite club is throwing away A LOT of people who can aggregate. Just to be clear, the guy who's compiling the list and helping most is bitserve, another Full Member just like me.

Quite frankly I don't agree with you and bitserve appointing yourselves somehow as 'moderator selectors' or 'moderator selection process deciders' or whatever you want to call the bullshit elitist process bullies and gatekeepers you have self-appointed yourselves as ...  that really seems like elitist bullshit to me.

So piss off newbie and take your offensive response attitude with you.

You already have you closed elite-club, so YOU PISS OFF and go there have fun with your sheepy friends who pretend to think you're a smart and lovely person. Adam's WO never was a closed-elite club, but you and Meuh seem to be happy with yours, so don't take your time to come here talk this kind of bullshit, be restrict to your club, I promise you I'll never step in there anyway.