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Author Topic: [ANN] Bitcoin on Blueseed, the international waters startup ship  (Read 24083 times)
Dan Dascalescu
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May 08, 2013, 08:45:31 PM
Last edit: August 06, 2013, 07:22:40 AM by Dan Dascalescu
 #1

My name is Dan Dascalescu and I'm the co-founder and COO/CTO of Blueseed, an upcoming community for startup entrepreneurs in international waters, 12 nautical miles (30 minutes by ferry) from the Silicon Valley coast. I'll be speaking about Blueseed and Bitcoin at the Bitcoin2013 conference on May 19.

I've been a Bitcoin user since 2011, and I'm posting here to get the community's feedback on what topics you'd like discussed. The talk will be recorded and made available online. I'll only have a 30 minutes slot to discuss the interplay between the world's largest tech-oriented colony on a semi-independent jurisdiction, and the world's most advanced cryptocurrency... fun times.

Very briefly, Blueseed was founded in August 2011 by former directors at The Seasteading Institute, is seed-funded, has a solid business model (rent + startups equity), we've done all the research possible at this stage - ocean conditions, ship stability, ship chartering, Internet connectivity, ferry and helicopter transportation, resupply chain, waste handling, visas and immigration matters, you name it. Preliminary discussions with U.S. authorities indicate not only non-interference, but actual support. 400 startups have already expressed interest, and we've received excellent press coverage. As long as we raise Series A funding on time, Blueseed should be in the water during the summer of next year.

As such, most likely any non-Bitcoin question about Blueseed has been already asked and answered. I'll also be replying to individual mentions of Blueseed that I see were made in quite a few other threads on the forum, notably Bitcoin Island and Bitcoin Island/City and More. In the interest of time, please read up a bit on Blueseed, as remarks likening us to Bioshock/Waterworld/Lord of The Flies, suggesting that pirates will invade the ship, or that it "steals American jobs", are unoriginal and will be summarily ignored. Smiley

Please make sure to read the Blueseed Quick Facts and the Blueseed FAQ to familiarize yourself with the venture.
For plenty of videos (we've been all over the news), head over to blueseed.tv.


What would you like to be discussed? I'll split the 30 minutes of the talk into a meaty presentation of Blueseed and a Q&A/discussion session.

So far we have the following:
  • Will Blueseed accept Bitcoin for payments, e.g. for rent?
  • What currency will be dominant onboard? Will items in the shops there, such as food, be denominated in USD but BTC is just as welcome/preferred?
  • Will companies use BTC to trade between each other for B2B services?
  • What Bitcoin-centered business models would have an advantage in the Blueseed environment?
  • How can BTC owners invest in Blueseed?
  • How can BTC owners reserve a spot?

I'm looking forward to your proposed topics and questions.
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May 08, 2013, 09:01:17 PM
 #2

Can we come visit? Grin

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149892.0
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May 08, 2013, 09:05:04 PM
 #3

Cool stuff...

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May 08, 2013, 09:06:06 PM
 #4

Amazing!

I will surely be following this up and be keeping up to date!
This is looking really promising, I think a lot of people would be more than willing to help support this beautiful project.
This needs to be advertised more, I'm going to include this in my sig, this is great news and could make bitcoin progress even further!

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May 08, 2013, 09:15:49 PM
 #5

Going to be there in a few weeks! Can't wait!

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May 08, 2013, 09:27:22 PM
 #6

I recommend a careful study and discussion of how BlueSeed will comply with

Section 922.132 a.2

http://montereybay.noaa.gov/intro/mp/regs.html#prohibitions



Mooring one of these:



in the Monterey Bay National Marine Sanctuary will be an interesting exercise in dealing with 14+ different oversight agencies.

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May 08, 2013, 09:27:48 PM
 #7

This is a great first step toward full seasteading.

Related to bitcoin, have you been getting any funding in bitcoin?

PM me if you are ready to actually start seasteading.
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May 08, 2013, 09:46:43 PM
 #8

You might also want to make sure your graphics reflect the actual expected conditions of your planned location.

Here is a link to the point forecast for your advertised location
http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?w0=t&w1=td&w2=hi&w3=sfcwind&w3u=0&w4=sky&w5=pop&w6=rh&w9=swlp&w10=swlm&w11=swlp2&w12=swlm2&w13=wwh&w14=wvh&w15=fzgspy&AheadHour=0&Submit=Submit&FcstType=graphical&textField1=37.46500&textField2=-122.76000&site=all&unit=0&dd=0&bw=0&marine=1

Here is a link to the nearest meto buoy.

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=46012

Here is a link to the Climatic Summary Plot for peak wind gust:

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/view_climplot.php?station=46012&meas=pw

And finally significant wave heights:

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/view_climplot.php?station=46012&meas=wh

The pretty pictures on your website do no justice to the wind, temperatures and sea state 12 nm off the coast of CA.

It would be good to not end up like these guys who were racing around the Farallon Islands.




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May 08, 2013, 09:49:32 PM
 #9

Oh.

Last question.

Will there be a place to tie up my sailboat while I visit the restaurant / gambling casino?


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May 08, 2013, 09:59:35 PM
Last edit: May 08, 2013, 10:26:29 PM by Elwar
 #10

my biggest concern is how you plan to deal with hostile governments. If an anonymous torpedo were to happen to be fired from an unknown submarine would you have any means to protect yourselves? If you dont think this is at all likely to happen than why not? I mean surely you are doing something that governments dont like here, or else they never would have created the laws that forced you into international waters to begin with.

A submarine coming into US waters shooting a torpedo at a ship flying a US flag?

I think someone would have something to say about that.

Edit: It appears that they will be using a more freedom friendly nation for their flag. But they are still within the US's EEZ.

PM me if you are ready to actually start seasteading.
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May 08, 2013, 10:02:37 PM
 #11

Hi Dan! Thanks for the opportunity to ask questions directly.

The most obvious question I'm sure you'll need to answer at bitcoin2013 is: what currency will be dominant onboard? Will items in the shops there, such as food, be denominated in USD but BTC is just as welcome/preferred? Will companies use BTC to trade between each other for B2B services?

It should go without saying that if you could somehow make BTC the Primary currency onboard, blueseed would be doing bitcoin a HUGE service to help stabilize and legitimize the fledgling currency.

The prospect that interests me the most here is about a possible tenant onboard offering bitcoin services like an exchange to rival MtGox. (Or something even more shady, like Casino.) Assuming you have no problems with energy nor internet connections, I wonder if there are any bitcoin-central business models that would have an advantage in that environment?

Best of luck to you and the boat. I hope to visit it myself.

Luke Parker
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Dan Dascalescu
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May 08, 2013, 10:16:47 PM
Last edit: May 09, 2013, 09:43:48 AM by Dan Dascalescu
 #12

Hi TomUnderSea (nice nickname :)

I recommend a careful study and discussion of how BlueSeed will comply with http://montereybay.noaa.gov/intro/mp/regs.html#prohibitions

We're perfectly well aware of the location being in the Monterey Bay Marine Sanctuary, and that's discussed in the FAQ, along with the NOAA buoys, pictured on the map. I've added the link to the prohibitions, which if you read carefully, don't apply to us, since they're concerned with exploiting oil and gas resources, not harming marine mammals, not removing historical resources, several discharges "other than from a cruise ship". The only prohibition that applies to Blueseed is this:

Quote
Discharging or depositing from within or into the Sanctuary any material or other matter from a cruise ship except clean vessel engine cooling water, clean vessel generator cooling water, vessel engine or generator exhaust, clean bilge water, or anchor wash.

Which is great, and easy to comply with. The environmental question is one we've examined carefully together with our environmental advisors (one of whom is a Nobel prize co-laureate).

As for the graphics reflecting the ocean conditions, I've added an FAQ entry,
http://blueseed.co/faq/#charter

http://blueseed.co/media/Cloudmade_map_with_ship_buoys_distance_and_international_waters line.png
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May 08, 2013, 10:30:10 PM
 #13

my biggest concern is how you plan to deal with hostile governments. If an anonymous torpedo were to happen to be fired from an unknown submarine would you have any means to protect yourselves? If you dont think this is at all likely to happen than why not? I mean surely you are doing something that governments dont like here, or else they never would have created the laws that forced you into international waters to begin with.

A submarine coming into US waters shooting a torpedo at a ship flying a US flag?

I think someone would have something to say about that.

Edit: It appears that they will be using a more freedom friendly nation for their flag. But they are still within the US's EEZ.

im more worried about the US than anything else. Its US laws that this is attempting to circumvent.

the bluesseed wouldn't really need a way to stop this sort of attack, all they would need is a way to identify the attacker. If they could do that than i expect they would be perfectly safe.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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May 08, 2013, 10:33:07 PM
 #14

Looks interesting! Will read more on the site soon Wink Oh and nice web design Smiley
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May 08, 2013, 11:21:27 PM
 #15

Blueseed will be no worse, nor better, protected from unidentifiable attacks than any other naval vessel in international waters.  Admirality law applies in this context, and firing upon any ship flying a legally recognizable flag is an act of war.  That doesn't mean that it can't happen, but there are a number of less risky methods of undermining the Blueseed project than attacking the ship itself.  With the right kind of insurance coverage, sinking the ship won't even end the project.  Just make sure that the underwriting company is a major US corporation, so any losses that Blueseed takes can be translated directly into tax losses for the US tax base.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 08, 2013, 11:52:19 PM
 #16

Very cool!
We'll be glad to list you in our catalog  Smiley
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May 09, 2013, 12:42:45 AM
 #17

Blueseed will be no worse, nor better, protected from unidentifiable attacks than any other naval vessel in international waters.  Admirality law applies in this context, and firing upon any ship flying a legally recognizable flag is an act of war.  That doesn't mean that it can't happen, but there are a number of less risky methods of undermining the Blueseed project than attacking the ship itself.  With the right kind of insurance coverage, sinking the ship won't even end the project.  Just make sure that the underwriting company is a major US corporation, so any losses that Blueseed takes can be translated directly into tax losses for the US tax base.

insurance duh.

thanks.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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May 09, 2013, 02:00:06 AM
 #18

This is a great first step toward full seasteading.

We believe so as well. Blueseed is the first commercial seasteading venture, and the team has worked at The Seasteading Institute.

Related to bitcoin, have you been getting any funding in bitcoin?

We have a donation address, 1BLSD1X13k8oifNo2bMh6eVmu1FiHAEmZw

We also take investments starting at $1k, in exchange for equity, via AngelList in partnership with SecondMarket. AngelList accepts only dollars though.
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May 09, 2013, 02:38:44 AM
 #19

Dan is Peter Thiel still involved in this idea?

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May 09, 2013, 03:25:12 AM
 #20

Hi Dan,

It all seems viable enough, you're doing some things right here:

1. WiFi air bridge/point to point connection - Cheap and fast.
2. Take advantage of Seasteading, the ability to move to an optimal location - and you chose to place BlueSeed in a very expensive
    neighborhood + you can provide looser visa restrictions.
3. Renting a ship - rather than trying to build/buy something which would likely kill your project.

So I have known about BlueSeed for like a year or more and been involved with seasteading myself and I'm basically just waiting to see you pull this off, the idea is sound enough.

So I guess all I can ask from another seasteader is this:
Any idea yet how to economically seastead the open oceans considering all the cheap farm land, deserts and cheap actual (albeit remote) islands?

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