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[DaveyJones]

^ Just lol +1

Are you a lawyer or a kid of one? You are twisting words out of context where you can and spinning your own stupid story out of it.

Next didnt you say you want to leave BTCT 2 days ago? Guess just another Shill Account

[1715160414]

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[1715160414]

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[1715160414]

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[iCEBREAKER]

the 2 defitinions CMC currenlty use are both objective:

* - non mineable - Every coin states itself whether it is either mineable or not = true or false = objective

** - premine - Compare launch date to first block date to see if coins were mined before or after the launch = true or false = objective

Definitions are radial, and in common usage insta vs pre experience significant overlap.  You are reaching into strict formal logic to justify hiding Dash's hideous early emission.

There is no consensus on exactly when Dash launched.  Using that ambiguity to deflect from/hide the insta-premine is cynical and par for the Dash scam course.

[busterzzz]

Wait Monero's still a thing? I thought it died out cause the DEV spends to much time on reddit/bct.

There's one hour wasted that could have been used productively to work on his code. Yet he decides to play around on forums and defend his positions... Does anyone see any of the DASH Developers wasting their time on here arguing about pointless things? Nope. Because they know how to spend the time they have wisely, unlike some of the other developers in the cryptocommunity industry.

**Context of these posts don't matter, it's the fact that they are made in the first place.

7:41 pm
https://i.imgur.com/s6I9qX2.png

7:52 pm
https://i.imgur.com/9m68k9h.png

8:03 pm
https://i.imgur.com/X6zZtaM.png

8:43 pm
https://i.imgur.com/QXKTDzi.png

[BlockaFett]

Wait Monero's still a thing? I thought it died out cause the DEV spends to much time on reddit/bct.

There's one hour wasted that could have been used productively to work on his code. Yet he decides to play around on forums and defend his positions... Does anyone see any of the DASH Developers wasting their time on here arguing about pointless things? Nope. Because they know how to spend the time they have wisely, unlike some of the other developers in the cryptocommunity industry.

**Context of these posts don't matter, it's the fact that they are made in the first place.

7:41 pm
https://i.imgur.com/s6I9qX2.png

7:52 pm
https://i.imgur.com/9m68k9h.png

8:03 pm
https://i.imgur.com/X6zZtaM.png

8:43 pm
https://i.imgur.com/QXKTDzi.png

Yes, full copy is now in my sig, minus the usual Trollero redaction of text they don't like

[BlockaFett]

^ Just lol +1

Are you a lawyer or a kid of one? You are twisting words out of context where you can and spinning your own stupid story out of it.

Next didnt you say you want to leave BTCT 2 days ago? Guess just another Shill Account

Nope...I am taking back seat on BCT, and not a shill.

[AdamWhite]

Really disappointed in this recent development.

Of course DASH should be flagged, its instamine was one of the biggest and most egregious in crypto history. Bigger and scammier than any premine you're currently tracking.

Create some other tag, modify the existing premine tag somehow, but please don't let these dashtard criminals get away with this.

[coins101]

Really disappointed in this recent development.

Of course DASH should be flagged, its instamine was one of the biggest and most egregious in crypto history. Bigger and scammier than any premine you're currently tracking.

Create some other tag, modify the existing premine tag somehow, but please don't let these dashtard criminals get away with this.

The Trolleros are at it again.  We have better things to do than police these people that use bullying rather than trying to compete on a commercial level.

If you make any changes because of the Trollero fud campaigns, then add a note against Monero that it contained scam code at launch. The impact of which is not fully known.

This has been, again, admitted to by one of the core devs, who was also around at launch. No accusations made or intended.

We've admitted to the crippled miner.

[AdamWhite]

We're not a scam because Monero.

Typical response from the DASH scam defence brigade. I have nothing to do with Monero. I've owned the coin before and no longer own it.

Stay on topic.

[Prosperityforall]

Given the debate here, it's probably best to take the significantly premined mark off of Dash until we can figure out a more appropriate solution.  I agree that instamine is not the same as premine.

I see a few options here:
1) Change label to "Significantly mined around launch" or something among those lines
2) Make an instamine label
3) Not care about tracking instamine

I'm preferring #3 because "instamine" is not a well defined term and can be applied subjectively.

I think (2) is the best option because that can be objective. PoS coins that had a period of PoW should also be flagged with this. I think the definition should be based on what we collectively recognize as fastmine or ninjamine or instamine or fastmine. We can take some thoughts from the article written by whoisthelorax here. He defines it as "Obvious and proveable scammish behavior such as self evident instant mines, super quick block halving, unannounced premining activity, or premines that represent unusual amount of coins. Most statistics tend towards unfair early adopter benefit. Very little benefits long term, fair usage."

With DRK I think it is easy to to see that it represents an unusual amount of coins and that the "block halving" was super quick. The block reward went from nearly 500 coins for the first day and a half, and then it was less than 50 coins, and now 16 months later the block reward is less than 5 coins. I have made my own analysis of the first 4500 blocks to show what I mean.

For the first hour of Darkcoin mining there were 67500 DRK mined. If you only started mining on day 2 after block 4500 you would have to mine for 136 hours for there to be the same DRK created. That is nearly 6 days. If you are mining today it would take you 23 and half days for the same DRK to be created.

For the second hour there were 514040 DRK mined. If you only started mining on day 2 after block 4500 you would have to mine for 292 hours for there to be the same DRK created. That is more than 12 days. If you are mining today it would take you 178 days for the same DRK to be created.

For a cryptocurrency to be fairly launched it cannot have the same amount created in one hour that will be created in 6 months a year later. This is not good and must be marked so that those who visit CMC know!

Entirely correct. Again, having a 'currency' whose core parameters were changed after launch in the same list as other currencies who have stayed true to the 'decentalized', 'fair' goal in largely unfair.

Dash should at least be in another list for instamined coins that have had their core parameters such as block reward and max coin supply changed after release.

[Prosperityforall]

I don't understand Dash/Darkcoin trolls harping on Monero... Monero has never had it's core features changed, period.

Dash has had all of it's core features changed multiple times.

They cannot be compared. Dash had a 2million coin instamine, Monero did not.

[coins101]

I don't understand Dash/Darkcoin trolls harping on Monero... Monero has never had it's core features changed, period.

Dash has had all of it's core features changed multiple times.

They cannot be compared. Dash had a 2million coin instamine, Monero did not.

If Monero never had its core features changed, then its still got scam code in there.

Thanks for that clarification.

The scam code was there (now you are saying still is there, which I kind of doubt, but who knows) to give more coins to the people who put the scam code there or to those few who knew it was there and kept quiet about it.

Scam code is a scam. Period.

[Lebubar]

I don't understand Dash/Darkcoin trolls harping on Monero... Monero has never had it's core features changed, period.

Dash has had all of it's core features changed multiple times.

They cannot be compared. Dash had a 2million coin instamine, Monero did not.

If Monero never had its core features changed, then its still got scam code in there.

Thanks for that clarification.

The scam code was there (now you are saying still is there, which I kind of doubt, but who knows) to give more coins to the people who put the scam code there or to those few who knew it was there and kept quiet about it.

Scam code is a scam. Period.

And the INTENTIONAL fact of this is very important too.

And the denying of it has is importance too:

There was nothing wrong with the history of Monero. It's one of if not the cleanest coins and launches in history.

[qwizzie]

Given the debate here, it's probably best to take the significantly premined mark off of Dash until we can figure out a more appropriate solution.  I agree that instamine is not the same as premine.

I see a few options here:
1) Change label to "Significantly mined around launch" or something among those lines
2) Make an instamine label
3) Not care about tracking instamine

I'm preferring #3 because "instamine" is not a well defined term and can be applied subjectively.

thanks for your post and for taking the premined mark off of Dash. I agree #3 is preferrable and hope
you will stick to it so some rest can settle back on this thread and we can all move on.

[generalizethis]

I don't understand Dash/Darkcoin trolls harping on Monero... Monero has never had it's core features changed, period.

Dash has had all of it's core features changed multiple times.

They cannot be compared. Dash had a 2million coin instamine, Monero did not.

If Monero never had its core features changed, then its still got scam code in there.

Thanks for that clarification.

The scam code was there (now you are saying still is there, which I kind of doubt, but who knows) to give more coins to the people who put the scam code there or to those few who knew it was there and kept quiet about it.

Scam code is a scam. Period.

You're just rambling without any facts to support your argument.

Fact 1. x/dark/dash had over 500k in coins mined in the first hour.

Fact 2. x/dark/dash had over 1.5 million coins mined in the first day.

Until you provide evidence that these facts aren't true, dash should be listed as an instamine; if over 500k in the first hour isn't an instamine, what is?

Crying, "But he did too!" by comparing an instamine to enhanced miners is like comparing organic apples to genetically mutated oranges shaped in the likeness of Rossie O'donnell--it's an insult to the intelligence of everyone reading this thread.  

Until this goes away https://i.imgur.com/dSe9cRz.jpg , no future investor should be duped into a false sense of propriety by misleading listings that do not include major activities that would be deemed as fraudulent by an objective observer.

[smooth]

Given the debate here, it's probably best to take the significantly premined mark off of Dash until we can figure out a more appropriate solution.  I agree that instamine is not the same as premine.

I see a few options here:
1) Change label to "Significantly mined around launch" or something among those lines
2) Make an instamine label
3) Not care about tracking instamine

I'm preferring #3 because "instamine" is not a well defined term and can be applied subjectively.

How hard is it to define some objective criteria? (For example, ">X% mined ahead of the published schedule"). You already have a concept of significantly premined. What does that mean? Is there some degree of premine that would not count?

[illodin]

-I refused to read the answer to that question, so I have to keep asking to make it look like I'm right and fluffypony is wrong-

By means of a direct comparison, where Dash's average block reward for the first 4500 blocks was 443 Dash, and 33.5 Dash on average thereafter, let's look at Monero's.

For the first 4500 blocks (like an hour and a bit) the block reward was 17.5 XMR. The average block reward for the 12+ months thereafter is 13.7 XMR.

Do you see the dichotomy?

Wait, are you saying XMR was mined 4500 blocks in the first hour? 4500 * 17.5 = 78,750 XMR, which is worth of 78 BTC using the first weeks' OTC price.

Or did I get some of the numbers wrong.

Could someone please verify/invalidate the numbers above?

[smooth]

And the denying of it has is importance too:

There was nothing wrong with the history of Monero. It's one of if not the cleanest coins and launches in history.

Yes let's look at the context of that shall we rather than taking one sentence out of context:

The miner crap you keep bringing up didn't matter at all. Everyone who wanted to mine could not only mine on their own computers easily enough but could pay for cloud mining and still mine at a profit. You could mine as much as you wanted and get as many coins as you wanted. The only real difference was that the people with the optimized miners had lower costs so their profit was higher (they still paid a lot though). There was effectively zero instamine (better than even most other honestly-launched coins with slowly difficulty adjustment). Access to coins or mining was not limited in any way whatsoever.

I did not deny the deliberately de-optimized miner that was put in the code before the community took over. I said it did not prevent anyone from mining as many coins as they wanted, according to the original mining schedule, before, during, and after the period that the de-optimized code existed. It was fixed starting 19 days after launch to 29 days after launch, which means the maximum plausible advantage gained from it by the original scammer (who was thrown out for other reasons) was very small, I estimate at 1% of the coins or less. And we don't even know, by the way, a) that the original developer of bitmonero even knew about it (he just forked for the whole thing from from Bytecoin with very few changes) and b) that he or anyone else involved with the deliberate de-optimization even mined any coins at all at a cost advantage (others optimizing later doesn't count as a scam, it counts as being brilliant programmers who optimize which is something miners normally do)

If that's the best you can come up with in terms of Monero mining issues then I was correct after all. It was and is one of the cleanest coin launches ever. Certainly miles ahead of the huge Dash instamine and massive retroactive supply cut.

[opennux]

BlockaFett et. al., you should probably inform your employer that the style you are employing are over-all hurtful towards your cause. It's largely unbefitting and most outsiders can see through it.

You're a Monero investor ...I would say the opposite, Monero core team came here and accused Dash of a "premine" and petitioned CMC to show that which they did.  I dispute that any Darkcoins where premined so I just asked the both Monero core devs for their evidence of premine, which I didn't get.  So maybe it's Monero who is attacking here (and being hurtful to their cause). I haven't asked CMC to do anything negative with Monero.  Just for Monero to justify why Dash, as of today, is a premine, as they claim.

And I used to be interested in DRK, so there is that.

[smooth]

-I refused to read the answer to that question, so I have to keep asking to make it look like I'm right and fluffypony is wrong-

By means of a direct comparison, where Dash's average block reward for the first 4500 blocks was 443 Dash, and 33.5 Dash on average thereafter, let's look at Monero's.

For the first 4500 blocks (like an hour and a bit) the block reward was 17.5 XMR. The average block reward for the 12+ months thereafter is 13.7 XMR.

Do you see the dichotomy?

Wait, are you saying XMR was mined 4500 blocks in the first hour? 4500 * 17.5 = 78,750 XMR, which is worth of 78 BTC using the first weeks' OTC price.

Or did I get some of the numbers wrong.

Could someone please verify/invalidate the numbers above?

Invalid

Coin launch and the first few blocks were 2014-04-18 10:49:53:

http://moneroblocks.eu/search/1

Block 4500 was three days later 2014-04-21 09:36:22:

http://moneroblocks.eu/search/4500

[Prosperityforall]

I don't understand Dash/Darkcoin trolls harping on Monero... Monero has never had it's core features changed, period.

Dash has had all of it's core features changed multiple times.

They cannot be compared. Dash had a 2million coin instamine, Monero did not.

If Monero never had its core features changed, then its still got scam code in there.

Thanks for that clarification.

The scam code was there (now you are saying still is there, which I kind of doubt, but who knows) to give more coins to the people who put the scam code there or to those few who knew it was there and kept quiet about it.

Scam code is a scam. Period.

Why do you Dash trolls resort to false statements?

The only "scamcode" was the unoptimized miner by the Thankful-for-today character and that has nothing to do with the currencies code.. and even that is neglibable as Bitcoin and practically every other currency also had 'unoptimized miners' when users with the skill created their own optimized versions of the public miners. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't type.

Dash had both it's coin supply and block reward tampered with by Evan Duffield after the 2million coin instamine where he manually changed the block reward from 500 to less than 100 and changed the coin supply from 80million to 22million. Therefore, Dash technically had a premine. No such thing happened in Monero, therefore even having Monero in this 'conversation' is irrelevant as the two coins are on opposite ends of the spectrum.