Sending bitcoin without the miner fees !

[Mandoy]

So i was thinking if i send a bitcoin transaction without the miner fee or a very low fee what will happen ? would i get the coins back eventually ? or they will just stuck there forever ! and if that happened how to do that double spend ?

I have not tried it yet.Don't try it now when there are lots of transactions stuck in between.If you do so,it may not get confirmed.But instead,after segwit,you could try with smaller miner fee.

If they will send bitcoin without any miner fee then I can say that his transaction will not be confirmed. Transactions without miner fee are no longer existing today and thus all bitcoin holders needs to place a miner fee for their transaction to be confirmed. This is in support for the hardwork of the miners amidst the increasing difficulty in mining.

I do agree with your statement that if segwit will be activated and if the possibility that the miner fee will be lessened due to the increase of blocksize will be realized then our burden will also become lighter. But having no miner fee is still an impossibility/

[Lomberjack]

So i was thinking if i send a bitcoin transaction without the miner fee or a very low fee what will happen ? would i get the coins back eventually ? or they will just stuck there forever ! and if that happened how to do that double spend ?

Doing transaction without miner fee will be impossible thing to happen but paying low fee might take your transaction to a very long time of wait. Because miners perspective that if you pay a large fee, that transaction might be urgent or an important one that's is why you are paying a large quantity of transaction fee. Yes your money must return to your account upon pulling out your money from the pool. But if you want to assure that your transaction will be process, pay the right amount and take a lot of patience upon waiting.

[frontdenplastic]

So i was thinking if i send a bitcoin transaction without the miner fee or a very low fee what will happen ? would i get the coins back eventually ? or they will just stuck there forever ! and if that happened how to do that double spend ?

Doing transaction without miner fee will be impossible thing to happen but paying low fee might take your transaction to a very long time of wait. Because miners perspective that if you pay a large fee, that transaction might be urgent or an important one that's is why you are paying a large quantity of transaction fee. Yes your money must return to your account upon pulling out your money from the pool. But if you want to assure that your transaction will be process, pay the right amount and take a lot of patience upon waiting.

What's this about pulling money out of a pool? Your coins are "returned" once the network forgets about your transaction. This happens when nodes stop re-broadcasting your unconfirmed transaction (by default 72 hours but it could be configured to anything).

Alternatively if you have a bitcoin client that allows you to double-spend you could also try to double-spend those coins with a higher fee. If that succeeds, then the previous transaction becomes immediately invalidated.

[CarnagexD]

So i was thinking if i send a bitcoin transaction without the miner fee or a very low fee what will happen ? would i get the coins back eventually ? or they will just stuck there forever ! and if that happened how to do that double spend ?

I think doing transactions without paying miner fee is quite impossible and risky because there is no one who will process your transaction. Also no one will do processing without getting paid. Paying low miner fee might take you a long term of waiting because they are prioritizing those transactions that pay large fees because it might indicate that those transactions are really important and urgent. So for you to be able to process your transaction, pay the right amount of miner fee and have a lot of patience while waiting.

[fasdorcas]

What I want to know is why OP wanted to send bitcoin without mining fee? I think everybody in bitcoin knows that if you send without mining fees, it will be stuck. Does he sees any benefit in it?

Just curious. 

As reading comments on this thread, I've noticed that many people had tried it before. I guess they were also just curious.

I haven't tried it yet but I don’t understand why people even try illegal ways. Don't ever try this technique. This doesn't worth it. I think so if you will pay low transaction fee or minimum transaction fee, your transaction will not take place. Your cash will either return back to you or there is a slight chance that your money will get stuck somewhere and you will require a particular technique to get it back. So i will suggest you to pay a recommended transaction fee so that your transaction can take place.

[deisik]

What I want to know is why OP wanted to send bitcoin without mining fee? I think everybody in bitcoin knows that if you send without mining fees, it will be stuck. Does he sees any benefit in it?

Just curious. 

As reading comments on this thread, I've noticed that many people had tried it before. I guess they were also just curious.

I haven't tried it yet but I don’t understand why people even try illegal ways. Don't ever try this technique. This doesn't worth it. I think so if you will pay low transaction fee or minimum transaction fee, your transaction will not take place. Your cash will either return back to you or there is a slight chance that your money will get stuck somewhere and you will require a particular technique to get it back. So i will suggest you to pay a recommended transaction fee so that your transaction can take place

I don't really see how it can be illegal

Apart from that, this is a good test of what miners actually think about Bitcoin at large. Say, if there is no congestion, i.e. no competition between transactors, and the mempool is essentially empty with blocks not filled up to the hilt, what could prevent miners from confirming transactions with no fees? If they don't lose anything from including such transactions (which seems to be the case), why would they not include them? Just to show the public that they want fees?

[gingerxlady]

Question:

I use Paxful and the standard mining fee is 0.0008 BTC
Is that low or is that standard. Because that's what I pay on my other sites as well.

Also, sometimes it's fairly fast but sometimes It's slow.

[warrior333]

High rates to the miners for the transaction is disadvantageous not only for the owners of the coins but also by the miners. I don't understand why rates are so high. This will scare away from bitcoin sellers. Constantly invest in coins, people will not and the miners could trigger an outflow of investment. Then they all lose everything. To pay the miners need, but the fees should be low to attract new customers.

[eternalgloom]

Question:

I use Paxful and the standard mining fee is 0.0008 BTC
Is that low or is that standard. Because that's what I pay on my other sites as well.

Also, sometimes it's fairly fast but sometimes It's slow.

I've not used Paxful in a while, but that seems to be an okay fee at the moment, maybe even on the high side.
There are currently *only* around 10k unconfirmed transactions and this is what fees are recommended:

The fastest and cheapest transaction fee is currently 330 satoshis/byte, shown in green at the top.
For the median transaction size of 226 bytes, this results in a fee of 74,580 satoshis.

Source: https://bitcoinfees.21.co/

[buwaytress]

Just curious. 

As reading comments on this thread, I've noticed that many people had tried it before. I guess they were also just curious.

I haven't tried it yet but I don’t understand why people even try illegal ways. Don't ever try this technique. This doesn't worth it. I think so if you will pay low transaction fee or minimum transaction fee, your transaction will not take place. Your cash will either return back to you or there is a slight chance that your money will get stuck somewhere and you will require a particular technique to get it back. So i will suggest you to pay a recommended transaction fee so that your transaction can take place

Actually, I do try low transaction fees every now and then just out of curiosity. I had wanted to send a 0 fee but my wallet didn't let me, but I do test the network a lot with low fees since I seldom ever need urgent confirmations. When the network is relatively free like today, they're not unreasonably delayed. Today, over 53k txs with fees between 1-30 sats/byte were confirmed within 8 hours (bitcoinfees.21.co).

As long as my txs are broadcast, they never get dropped off the network. All below 10 sat/byte and majority confirmed within half a day.

And today, just looking at blocks. a 3 sat/byte fee tx. Less than 18k satoshi to send 2.1 BTC. 7 hours 14 minutes to confirm.

https://blockchain.info/tx/7d59231d90e2c1b86b1a2b2a2b0da5103d21b03120d17932f043df45dea3954f

Does anyone know of a wallet I could test 0 fee spends?

[haroldtee]

So i was thinking if i send a bitcoin transaction without the miner fee or a very low fee what will happen ? would i get the coins back eventually ? or they will just stuck there forever ! and if that happened how to do that double spend ?

If you send without a miner fee, I'm very sure your transaction will not go through as most miners or even all won't even bother having a look at your transaction which makes it not to be included in a block except you wanna use some form of voodoo nevertheless, low fee doesn't mean your transaction won't get confirmed but it might just take a while before it does and sometimes you may even get lucky and won't take much time. Whichever way, after some days and your transaction does not get added to a block, your wallet you sent it from will tenderly receive it back gladly.

[BeGoods]

So i was thinking if i send a bitcoin transaction without the miner fee or a very low fee what will happen ? would i get the coins back eventually ? or they will just stuck there forever ! and if that happened how to do that double spend ?

I have not tried it yet.Don't try it now when there are lots of transactions stuck in between.If you do so,it may not get confirmed.But instead,after segwit,you could try with smaller miner fee.

Lol even that transaction can not be done, if you use the wallet online and you choose without using miner fee of course the wallet will not allow it, you will not be able to push the send button Unless you fill at least 10k satoshi fee. Even now 10k satoshi fee is rarely used

[Dalkore]

Sending  bitcoin without miners fee is very risky in my opinion. You get risk of your coins  being stuck, thus its a very big hassle on your part. You'll need  services like viabtc to accelerate it again.

Don't do it.  I made that mistake and I had to basically double-spend and hope the higher fee version got picked up.   Stressful.   I usually pay more than the recommended amount to make sure it goes.

[Syke]

Does anyone know of a wallet I could test 0 fee spends?

1 sat per byte is the effective minimum fee since anything less and nodes won't send your transaction on to other peers. Most of these transactions will confirm just fine, but slow.

There are a few miners that accept 0-fee, but you'd have to get your transaction to them manually.

[Pattart]

Sending  bitcoin without miners fee is very risky in my opinion. You get risk of your coins  being stuck, thus its a very big hassle on your part. You'll need  services like viabtc to accelerate it again.

Don't do it.  I made that mistake and I had to basically double-spend and hope the higher fee version got picked up.   Stressful.   I usually pay more than the recommended amount to make sure it goes.

I've tried it with a small amount so I do not lose money and in a few days the transaction will not get a confirmation. Then the transaction fails and the bitcoin goes back into my wallet. So that's what happens when you use 0 fee transaction

[deisik]

High rates to the miners for the transaction is disadvantageous not only for the owners of the coins but also by the miners. I don't understand why rates are so high. This will scare away from bitcoin sellers. Constantly invest in coins, people will not and the miners could trigger an outflow of investment. Then they all lose everything. To pay the miners need, but the fees should be low to attract new customers

This is no more than your assumption

Quite naturally, if the rates are so high, miners don't think it as disadvantageous to them. Maybe, they are missing something, maybe, it is in fact you who are missing something else. But as to me, miners are closer to real understanding of the current lay of the Bitcoin land than most posters here are. Anyway, as long as Bitcoin had been rising the fees skyrocketing were only adding to miners' profits, not taking from them. That likely explains why we no longer see the network being flooded with spam transactions since they could really affect miners' profitability when Bitcoin prices have been stagnating for some time now

[DoublerHunter]

Sending  bitcoin without miners fee is very risky in my opinion. You get risk of your coins  being stuck, thus its a very big hassle on your part. You'll need  services like viabtc to accelerate it again.

Don't do it.  I made that mistake and I had to basically double-spend and hope the higher fee version got picked up.   Stressful.   I usually pay more than the recommended amount to make sure it goes.

I've tried it with a small amount so I do not lose money and in a few days the transaction will not get a confirmation. Then the transaction fails and the bitcoin goes back into my wallet. So that's what happens when you use 0 fee transaction

I also get the same result like you, i only have a fixed bitcoin amount and i choose to just input 0 fee in my transaction but after a few weeks it goes back to my wallet which i am really happy because i thought that it will just get stuck in the network forever. If you want to be fair to other people like miners, you should pay the recommended fee to avoid complications.

[Eternu]

So i was thinking if i send a bitcoin transaction without the miner fee or a very low fee what will happen ? would i get the coins back eventually ? or they will just stuck there forever ! and if that happened how to do that double spend ?

I am not sure if you can put zero as a transaction fee, i think that is not possible. But as far as lower transaction fee is concerned, that is possible. You can put it, but your transaction will not be confirmed. You will get your money back... in time. But that means that your founds would be stuck, for long time... And that is not something anybody wants right.

[Qunenin]

Fact are facts and you can send with any miner fee that you want whether it be high or low.

it's going to affect how quickly the transactions get confirmed in the chain and going to affect the health of the block chain, in general because you're taking money away from the people that are mining it. so the more and more money that you take away from those mining it the less and less mining that will happen and therefore eventually muck and shut the entire system down

[JohnBitCo]

Fact are facts and you can send with any miner fee that you want whether it be high or low.

it's going to affect how quickly the transactions get confirmed in the chain and going to affect the health of the block chain, in general because you're taking money away from the people that are mining it. so the more and more money that you take away from those mining it the less and less mining that will happen and therefore eventually muck and shut the entire system down

In reality that's not going to happen because there will always be people out there to do things the right way. but you can use any fee you want, because the rest of the world is there to support your nonsense.  The TX may take three days to confirm.