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Author Topic: [Guide] Handling splits: UASFs, BIP148, etc.  (Read 48182 times)
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July 15, 2017, 10:37:41 PM
 #181

I'm just wondering. We have 15 days until 1st August. Bitcoin price has only dropped 7% in the last 24 hours, now it's close to $2.000 and it's possible that it can go under that.
I know that most of the people interested in bitcoin and blockchain technology had the possibility to read about the BIP148 thing, but I don't know what % of the whole bitcoin holders want to take action and cash out before 1st August (or just to withdraw from exchanges to hw wallets, etc.).
Maybe it's summertime, maybe a lot of them are on holiday, and don't follow the news really close.
I can imagine that a huge part of the bitcoin holders has no clue about this possible fork, they don't know the details at all. Maybe they have only bought some bitcoins in order to hold it for a long time and they didn't care about the technical background.
Exchanges will be under a real pressure if everyone starts to withdraw, so they need to do very hard marketing to stop the withdrawal in order not to lose clients and market share.
If everyone who cares will withdraw and put the bitcoins into trezor, and just sit back and watch the show for a few weeks, who will decide which chain will be the winner at the end? Will real traders withdraw from exchanges? Will real gamblers take out BTC from casinos? Could a few whales decide the outcome if the Average Joe's won't do any transaction until the dust settles?


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July 15, 2017, 11:07:52 PM
 #182

I have no way to download a desktop wallet, I can only use online services to keep my money.

What do you recommend? Don't you think with so many services here on BitcoinTalk Forum there isn't at least few trusted sites where our money can be safe?

Some Android wallets should be OK. You want one that allows you to export your private keys. (I don't know which ones allow this, though...)

If you really need a Web wallet, I guess I'd go with GreenAddress. Make sure you either use a 2of3 account (preferable) or that you get your nLockTime transactions emailed to you.
Is mycellium okay?
I have Ledger Nano S instead of Trezor,Should I buy Trezor or Nano S can also be used to store btc?

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July 15, 2017, 11:14:15 PM
 #183

I'm using a mining service that supports Segwit.
For the moment, that mining service sends me BTC each mouth on my "1example123" Bitcoin Core Wallet.

Let's say the fork happens and at the moment of the fork I have 0.5 BTC on my "1example123" Bitcoin Core Wallet.
Until I make a decision, I can have :
*0.5 BTC on my "1example123" Bitcoin Core Wallet
or
*0.5 BTC on my "1example123" Bitcoin SegWit Wallet


That mining service will start sending SegWit BTC after the 1st of August on my "1example123" address.
Lets say they send me, in August, 0.1 SegWit BTC.
Until I make a decision, I can :
*End up with 0.5 BTC on my "1example123" Bitcoin Core Wallet + 0.1 BTC on my "1example123" Bitcoin SegWit Wallet
or
*End up with 0.6 BTC on my "1example123" Bitcoin SegWit Wallet


Do I understand it right ?

My lucky BTC address : 1LoTTerY3WYbGxVRHvh8oDudDdTxFvvqWF
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July 15, 2017, 11:17:59 PM
 #184


Use Electrum for desktop, Mycelium for Android.
Electrum also has Android version

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July 15, 2017, 11:24:25 PM
 #185

In short, BTC in the core wallet, too are not safe because not generate a private key?
Well I think? But will the coins be safe?

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July 16, 2017, 01:24:53 AM
 #186

I have Ledger Nano S instead of Trezor,Should I buy Trezor or Nano S can also be used to store btc?

Mycellium and Ledger are fine.

If everyone who cares will withdraw and put the bitcoins into trezor, and just sit back and watch the show for a few weeks, who will decide which chain will be the winner at the end?

There is no universal decision. Bitcoin is about individual sovereignty, not democracy or dictatorship or whatever. Nobody can decide for you unless you give up your freedom/control by using a bank, etc.

If a split happens at all (which is uncertain), probably it won't be anywhere near a 50-50 split economically. One side will be a tiny minority both economically and in mining power, and this will be apparent only hours after Aug 1. For example, if I can find hardly any sites that accept one side of the split, and the market value of that side's coins is very low, and too few blocks are being produced to realistically transact on that side, then that one is almost certainly not going to survive in any economically-relevant way, and I'll probably call the "all clear" in 12-24 hours.

In the (IMO very unlikely) event that it's a closer split than that, then we'll need to give instructions for choosing a side (or using both) and splitting your coins, as both sides will have value and will probably exist independently for while, possibly indefinitely. Depending on how things look, I might immediately call one side the true Bitcoin for purposes of categorization on bitcointalk.org, or I might leave it undefined for some days to see how things develop further. Though the other side can continue to exist even if categorized by me as an altcoin, of course.

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July 16, 2017, 01:25:42 AM
 #187

Great thread... thanks for all the valuable information.

One question.. I have been lead to believe that if I on on Poloniex and have placed all my bitcoin on altcoins... and remove all sell orders.. just during the 12 hours before and some time after August 1.. I should be ok keeping my Poloniex account funded with coin.  I'm just not sure.  Any suggestions?
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July 16, 2017, 01:45:19 AM
 #188

Thanks for the information

Hope i get this right

Segwit = Bip141, needed to activate with 95% miners block

UASF = A way to apply Segwit into update but doest depends on the miners

Is both Segwit the same? just the method of activating is different?

As mentioned, UASF does not activate through miners

The reason why UASF is applied because BIP 141 require 95% miners consent which will take very long while BIP 148 could activated by november?

Or it is already decided that we will go with UASF currently

Thanks and regards


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July 16, 2017, 03:09:04 AM
 #189

I'm using a mining service that supports Segwit.
For the moment, that mining service sends me BTC each mouth on my "1example123" Bitcoin Core Wallet.

Let's say the fork happens and at the moment of the fork I have 0.5 BTC on my "1example123" Bitcoin Core Wallet.
Until I make a decision, I can have :
*0.5 BTC on my "1example123" Bitcoin Core Wallet
or
*0.5 BTC on my "1example123" Bitcoin SegWit Wallet


That mining service will start sending SegWit BTC after the 1st of August on my "1example123" address.
Lets say they send me, in August, 0.1 SegWit BTC.
Until I make a decision, I can :
*End up with 0.5 BTC on my "1example123" Bitcoin Core Wallet + 0.1 BTC on my "1example123" Bitcoin SegWit Wallet
or
*End up with 0.6 BTC on my "1example123" Bitcoin SegWit Wallet


Do I understand it right ?

Hopefully someone will give an answer to this... because from what I understand, either all nodes went to be SegWit, or the SegWit nodes are connected to the network, but their SegWit functions still not activated and still work as a "normal" node... or it seems even more feasible that the SegWit nodes can be compatible with the "normal" nodes being compatible but among SegWit nodes you take that advantage of their P2SH-P2WPKH?

Still so much to understand...
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July 16, 2017, 06:00:36 AM
 #190

Great thread... thanks for all the valuable information.

One question.. I have been lead to believe that if I on on Poloniex and have placed all my bitcoin on altcoins... and remove all sell orders.. just during the 12 hours before and some time after August 1.. I should be ok keeping my Poloniex account funded with coin.  I'm just not sure.  Any suggestions?

You may want to take this action like 24-48 hours before the event so you are sure that you won't have any stuck transactions without confirmation or sell orders etc. You should be fine leaving your altcoins there but as a general rule, Its never recommended to leave your coins at exchanges for a long period of time as they could get hacked but from the chain split perspective, nothing to be worried about.

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July 16, 2017, 06:42:20 AM
 #191

how long should we expect to become things normal and buy bitcoin again..
will it take few days or months or quarters?
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July 16, 2017, 06:44:07 AM
 #192

i have a question when the bip148 the people will start supporting and where we will be able to see how much support is moving towards segwit and how much to legacy bitcoin ?
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July 16, 2017, 06:47:06 AM
 #193

I'm using a mining service that supports Segwit.
For the moment, that mining service sends me BTC each mouth on my "1example123" Bitcoin Core Wallet.

Let's say the fork happens and at the moment of the fork I have 0.5 BTC on my "1example123" Bitcoin Core Wallet.
Until I make a decision, I can have :
*0.5 BTC on my "1example123" Bitcoin Core Wallet
or
*0.5 BTC on my "1example123" Bitcoin SegWit Wallet


That mining service will start sending SegWit BTC after the 1st of August on my "1example123" address.
Lets say they send me, in August, 0.1 SegWit BTC.
Until I make a decision, I can :
*End up with 0.5 BTC on my "1example123" Bitcoin Core Wallet + 0.1 BTC on my "1example123" Bitcoin SegWit Wallet
or
*End up with 0.6 BTC on my "1example123" Bitcoin SegWit Wallet


Do I understand it right ?
First of all, this is not Bitcoin Core vs. Segwit. This is Segwit vs. non-Segwit. If the segwit chain is longer than the non-segwit chain, then Bitcoin Core will follow the segwit chain.

To answer your question, you do not understand correctly. You can have both 0.5 BTC on your "1example123" Non-Segwit Wallet and 0.5 BTC on your "1example123" SegWit Wallet. If you are paid 0.1 to "1example123" on the segwit chain, then you can have 0.5 BTC on the non-segwit chain and 0.6 BTC on the segwit chain. There is no need to choose one or the other, you can use both. However using both does take a little bit of work to successfully separate your coins.

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July 16, 2017, 07:07:14 AM
 #194

I just read this article: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/bitcoin-beginners-guide-surviving-bip-148-uasf/

A quote: "First off, be aware that a chain-split create a high-risk situation. There is a chance that some sort of cyber-battle will break out between the two camps, perhaps even escalating to the point where bitcoin’s exchange rate(s) drops sharply, possibly to zero. Make absolutely sure you are not holding more value in bitcoin than what you are willing to lose."

So, in this article Aaron van Wirdum seems to suggest that it is possible to 'loose' all your Bitcoins post-split. Is this to be interpreted as it's possible to 'loose' BTC due a price drop to zero or due some technical mishap as a result of a possible fork? Surely, even in the worst case scenario, if you keep your private keys and don't transaction around that time your Bitcoins will be safe?

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July 16, 2017, 07:24:06 AM
 #195

English is not my native language, so please once again understand that if my BTC stays in the core wallet
and I do not use them, will they be safe?

Thank's for reply.

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July 16, 2017, 07:28:37 AM
 #196

English is not my native language, so please once again understand that if my BTC stays in the core wallet
and I do not use them, will they be safe?

Thank's for reply.

Yes,
As long as you have private key 🗝
It would be safe in any supported wallet


     
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July 16, 2017, 07:30:16 AM
 #197

Great summary Theymos. There's a lot of misinterpreted information out there about August 1st. I was confused as well but now the situation is more clear. Fingers crossed now! Wink


     
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July 16, 2017, 07:33:56 AM
 #198

Thank you for the very helpful guide!
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July 16, 2017, 07:38:38 AM
 #199

I just read this article: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/bitcoin-beginners-guide-surviving-bip-148-uasf/

A quote: "First off, be aware that a chain-split create a high-risk situation. There is a chance that some sort of cyber-battle will break out between the two camps, perhaps even escalating to the point where bitcoin’s exchange rate(s) drops sharply, possibly to zero. Make absolutely sure you are not holding more value in bitcoin than what you are willing to lose."

So, in this article Aaron van Wirdum seems to suggest that it is possible to 'loose' all your Bitcoins post-split. Is this to be interpreted as it's possible to 'loose' BTC due a price drop to zero or due some technical mishap as a result of a possible fork? Surely, even in the worst case scenario, if you keep your private keys and don't transaction around that time your Bitcoins will be safe?

No, he suggests that the value of one's bitcoins can be lost (reduced to 0$/btc). This is different.

Controlling your BTC gives you access to these BTC even if there are 10 different forks. What value these BTC have in any of these forks is a different matter altogether.
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July 16, 2017, 07:46:57 AM
 #200

English is not my native language, so please once again understand that if my BTC stays in the core wallet
and I do not use them, will they be safe?

Thank's for reply.

Yes,
As long as you have private key 🗝
It would be safe in any supported wallet


Private key.. ?  I understand it's a wallet password?

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