To those buying 5830's for resale

[Jack of Diamonds]

Can someone here define troll for me?  I mean, objectively?

Someone who claims to be a miner, but all of his posts are about how much bitcoin sucks, how it's a "bubble" that is about to burst,
how Satoshi is the antichrist and a CIA agent, how the price will never go past $12 and it will just be banned in every country in the world.

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[AngelusWebDesign]

I'm not telling anyone what to do.

I'm giving them food for thought. "Free information" is quite in the spirit of Bitcoin.

If anyone has a problem with it, it's because their own greed is being thwarted.

All you who are "poisoning the well" by trying to get people to ignore what I have to say -- you're the ones with the agenda.

[Lightspeed]

I'm not telling anyone what to do.

I'm giving them food for thought. "Free information" is quite in the spirit of Bitcoin.

If anyone has a problem with it, it's because their own greed is being thwarted.

All you who are "poisoning the well" by trying to get people to ignore what I have to say -- you're the ones with the agenda.

Your information is free sure, but free information != accurate information.

[AngelusWebDesign]

Can someone here define troll for me?  I mean, objectively?

Someone who claims to be a miner, but all of his posts are about how much bitcoin sucks, how it's a "bubble" that is about to burst,
how Satoshi is the antichrist and a CIA agent, how the price will never go past $12 and it will just be banned in every country in the world.

Not exactly a definition of troll, but at any rate it doesn't describe me. You seem to have me confused with someone else.

[AngelusWebDesign]

I'm not telling anyone what to do.

I'm giving them food for thought. "Free information" is quite in the spirit of Bitcoin.

If anyone has a problem with it, it's because their own greed is being thwarted.

All you who are "poisoning the well" by trying to get people to ignore what I have to say -- you're the ones with the agenda.

Your information is free sure, but free information != accurate information.

Oh yeah?

Quote me just ONE THING I SAID that was inaccurate.

I'm waiting.

[AngelusWebDesign]

Which of my concrete facts do you have a problem with?

I notice they always want $160 -- not $150, or $170, but $160 -- as in, they'd like to make a nice even "fifty" on their deal.

I've run into several of these guys -- but they (and their would-be customers) need to learn a few things:

1. The 5830 doesn't make BTC fly out of your orifices. It's just a good video card for mining at the $110 price point.
2. The 5830 is one of the best entry-level mining cards there is -- when purchased for $110 or $120.
3. There are other cards that perform as well -- if not better -- at the $160 price point.

...and...pay attention here, boys...

4. The BTC mining market, while still profitable, is hardly in a "manic growth" phase anymore (or at least it shouldn't be). Newsflash! BTC aren't trading for $30 anymore. Anyone who's bought cards for a quick buck is LATE TO THE PARTY. As in, 3 weeks late. And we've had one Difficulty Reset since those halcyon $30 days as well (with another coming at the end of this week!)

5. The 5830 brings in 0.26 BTC per day (going by 255 MH/s). At the current market price of $11/BTC, that's $2.86 BEFORE YOU SUBTRACT ELECTRICITY and any conversion to USD fees. It will take a long time to earn $120 back, nevermind $160.

[Lightspeed]

I'm not telling anyone what to do.

I'm giving them food for thought. "Free information" is quite in the spirit of Bitcoin.

If anyone has a problem with it, it's because their own greed is being thwarted.

All you who are "poisoning the well" by trying to get people to ignore what I have to say -- you're the ones with the agenda.

Your information is free sure, but free information != accurate information.

Oh yeah?

Quote me just ONE THING I SAID that was inaccurate.

I'm waiting.

Very first post I found by you was inaccurate:

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=20066.msg252182#msg252182

[AngelusWebDesign]

I'm not telling anyone what to do.

I'm giving them food for thought. "Free information" is quite in the spirit of Bitcoin.

If anyone has a problem with it, it's because their own greed is being thwarted.

All you who are "poisoning the well" by trying to get people to ignore what I have to say -- you're the ones with the agenda.

Your information is free sure, but free information != accurate information.

Oh yeah?

Quote me just ONE THING I SAID that was inaccurate.

I'm waiting.

Very first post I found by you was inaccurate:

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=20066.msg252182#msg252182

I publicly admit I don't know for sure; I only know that it's probably not a good idea. It can't do your fan any favors.

I might be wrong about the fan lifespan.

I am always willing to admit when I'm wrong, and I never want to claim certitude about anything I'm not 100% certain about.

(As an aside, I don't think many people on this forum are professional engineers -- most are going by personal or anecdotal evidence at best)

I heard many knowledgeable people say that running a fan at 100% will drastically shorten its lifespan. That seems reasonable to me. I certainly would not crank it up that high, just in case.

At any rate, I'm not willing to stake my credibility or reputation on this one point.

Matthew

[AngelusWebDesign]

Is that it?

What a disappointment.

[OgNasty]

All you who are "poisoning the well" by trying to get people to ignore what I have to say -- you're the ones with the agenda.

The closest thing to an agenda that I have is wanting to kill zombies in Call of Duty.

You however, obviously have an agenda.  

[kokojie]

ok, except I grabbed ten 5830 from newegg at $109 last week, and posted in the sell forum here, they were sold out at $160+ price in matter of hours, and tons of people asking me if I got more.

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=17624.msg225276#msg225276

[Lightspeed]

Sorry I was elsewhere; dealing with trolls isn't my full time hobby, but your full time hobby of trolling obviously means more to you than actually mining bitcoins. Pfft to you sir.

Every post you try to spin, it's laughable.

[kokojie]

I would posit that each one of those idiots will live to regret their purchase. They'll never see $160 from one of those cards (unless they bought them weeks ago, in which case we're not talking about the same thing. I'm talking about TODAY, 6/20/11).

P.T. Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute"

So the fact that you successfully ripped off 10 people doesn't prove a thing.

There are apparently many stupid people left, who STILL THINK BITCOIN IS WILDLY PROFITABLE. I just say it's profitable. The exciting blow-off top is behind us, unfortunately. Doesn't mean I'll quit mining, but I'll certainly not pay "any price" for a 5830 at this point.

Besides, if mining with them today were so profitable (@ $160 a card), why didn't you stick them in a couple PCs and make some "real money", rather than "sacrificing" them for $160 apiece?

already running at the maximum power in my basement, any more rigs I'm afraid they'd melt my power wiring or something.

[teflone]

Hahahaha, lightspeed, this is funny..


The sky is falling! 

 - No its not...

   - YES IT IS!

- not its not....

The anti climatic response by angelus admitting he could be wrong was just that...




Cool story bro!

[teflone]

At this point buddy..

No one cares... I didnt even write what you put above me..

meh..

[Jdumond]

Also, I have some 5830's for sale for around 160. PM if interested.


this is the appropriate thread right?

[teflone]

Ill take 2

[Jack of Diamonds]

Assuming 300mhash/s, bitcoin price of $17 and difficulty of 877k, a 5830 will create ~$188 per month at current difficulty (wont last that long - just an example), $141 per month at the next difficulty level, and about $103 per month at 1,500,000 difficulty.

If you buy today, it will pay itself off if you bought at $109 or even $160. More so if BTC price rises. While no difficulty level at this point will generally last a month (2 weeks or less actually), the rises aren't steep enough to make mining unprofitable. Even after you gain back 100% of the buy price at 1,5m difficulty, you will be gaining $80 per month profit at current prices.

Worth it with a single card? If you are just some random gamer then sure. Don't count on it for a living though. At 2 million difficulty you will be making $50 bucks per month at current prices.

At 3m difficulty, either prices will go up or ~90% of casual miners will give up and thus drive the difficulty down to about 2.4m.

[AngelusWebDesign]

Assuming 300mhash/s, bitcoin price of $17 and difficulty of 877k, a 5830 will create ~$188 per month at current difficulty (wont last that long - just an example), $141 per month at the next difficulty level, and about $103 per month at 1,500,000 difficulty.

If you buy today, it will pay itself off if you bought at $109 or even $160. More so if BTC price rises. While no difficulty level at this point will generally last a month (2 weeks or less actually), the rises aren't steep enough to make mining unprofitable. Even after you gain back 100% of the buy price at 1,5m difficulty, you will be gaining $80 per month profit at current prices.

Worth it with a single card? If you are just some random gamer then sure. Don't count on it for a living though. At 2 million difficulty you will be making $50 bucks per month at current prices.

At 3m difficulty, either prices will go up or ~90% of casual miners will give up and thus drive the difficulty down to about 2.4m.

Jack of Diamonds, I respect you for being the FIRST PERSON SO FAR TODAY to actually argue with the numbers themselves, rather than just shooting the messenger.

I personally don't think 300 MH/s is a reasonable expectation. Overclocking carries risks, and not every card can reach 300. I had problems at 292 with a Sapphire card (which are the best, BTW). AND if you're overclocking you're also using more than 160W, so the greater electricity usage must be subtracted at the other end.

Bitcoins aren't $17 at the moment -- we should go by the current price to be fair. Naysayers could just as easily calculate at $10, while you calculate at $17. Maybe the answer is to show the figures for $10, $15, $20, and $25? Let the would-be buyer make the choice about what he thinks the market will do. So if he loses his money, he'll have no one to blame but himself. But at least he'll know what he's getting himself into.

How many BTC are you saying they'll make per day? According to Deepbit's estimator, which I believe takes Pool commissions into account, one would make 0.30 BTC/day at a hashrate of 290MH/s.

.30 BTC/day times $17 (a generous figure -- which I'm sure we both hope for. I'm a miner myself) is $5.10 a day. But difficulty will go up before any cards bought today could go online. It will be at least 30% (this much is fact). So your monthly projection is already way off.

Monthly projections are *very, very* deceptive because they always fail to take Difficulty increases into consideration. And difficulty increases are a fact of life. It's foolish to deny them or treat them like they don't exist.

Matthew

[ItsASpork]

I bought 2 about a week and a half ago, costing $240 with fees and crap. I was on track to pay them off, but one of the fans died on one card, so now I'll be lucky if I break even after I have to pay for repairs.