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tclo
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May 11, 2013, 07:21:47 PM |
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XRP can still be successful and good even though it's not as noble as Bitcoin. Do you not use Mastercard and VISA because it isn't pure like bitcoin? Probably not. But you make some good points and they are courting the Bitcoin community so I see why you started the thread.
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Once a transaction has 6 confirmations, it is extremely unlikely that an attacker without at least 50% of the network's computation power would be able to reverse it.
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cypherdoc
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May 11, 2013, 07:24:31 PM |
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precisely my point. Ripple hasn't developed a fair system to distribute them.
They made all those XRP themselves. I say it's fair they get to do with them as they please. Of course, only time will tell how much people will be willing to pay for them. Which is fair enough too. many XRP's were just handed out here on the forum one day for those willing to post an address. OpenCoin has just arbitrarily decided to hold back 50% for themselves.
it's not a fair distribution system and thus creates suspicion/resentment.
Who gets to decide what's fair? Was it fair that mining was really, really easy in the beginning? contrast this with the proof of work system for Bitcoin. POW is one real reason Bitcoin resonates with it's adopters even today.
I've also heard people complain that Bitcoin enthusiasts are hoarding their coins. The common thread I see is that people are bitching that unlike earlier adopters, they personally won't get a chance to get filthy rich by doing nothing or very little. i don't think you're really listening to anything i've just said. that's ok. you're free to view the Ripple setup as you please, but IMO, it's not going to work b/c it violates just about all the principles that a successful Bitcoin has been built upon. |
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mmeijeri
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May 11, 2013, 07:26:00 PM |
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I did listen, so in other words, you have no arguments, just empty assertion. I suppose that's fine too.
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ROI is not a verb, the term you're looking for is 'to break even'.
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anti-scam
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May 11, 2013, 07:27:04 PM |
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XRP can still be successful and good even though it's not as noble as Bitcoin. Do you not use Mastercard and VISA because it isn't pure like bitcoin? Probably not. But you make some good points and they are courting the Bitcoin community so I see why you started the thread.
Mastercard and VISA already exist. People don't need another generic payment processor (much less one you have to buy into to use), and that's all Ripple is. Bitcoin only managed to carve out its stake in the financial world because of its purity. Ripple will fail for that same reason. |
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mmeijeri
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May 11, 2013, 07:27:25 PM |
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XRP can still be successful and good even though it's not as noble as Bitcoin.
I sympathise with your conciliatory sentiments, but what is it about Bitcoin that strikes you as nobler than Ripple? |
ROI is not a verb, the term you're looking for is 'to break even'.
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cypherdoc
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May 11, 2013, 07:28:36 PM |
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I did listen, so in other words, you have no arguments, just empty assertion. I suppose that's fine too.
what i do know, and is a known fact, is that OpenCoin is holding back 50% of the XRP. as has been stated before, the dump is inevitable, as it is the only way OpenCoin will be able to financially capitalize all their sunk costs to pay back investors. |
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mmeijeri
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May 11, 2013, 07:30:13 PM |
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what i do know, and is a known fact, is that OpenCoin is holding back 50% of the XRP.
Holding back tends to increase value, not to decrease it. as has been stated before, the dump is inevitable, as it is the only way OpenCoin will be able to financially capitalize all their sunk costs to pay back investors.
Yes, obviously they will sell them off, and everybody knows it. This will be discounted in the price the market is willing to pay for them. |
ROI is not a verb, the term you're looking for is 'to break even'.
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anti-scam
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May 11, 2013, 07:32:09 PM |
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XRP can still be successful and good even though it's not as noble as Bitcoin.
I sympathise with your conciliatory sentiments, but what is it about Bitcoin that strikes you as nobler than Ripple? The lack of a 100% pre-mine for starters? I don't see why RealSolid is forever marked a scammer for pre-mining a million SolidCoins while OpenCoin gets away with pre-mining 100 billion XRP. Somebody explain this to me. |
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cypherdoc
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May 11, 2013, 07:33:41 PM |
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what i do know, and is a known fact, is that OpenCoin is holding back 50% of the XRP.
Holding back tends to increase value, not to decrease it. its also an incentive for them to do anything possible to increase the value. even lying. as has been stated before, the dump is inevitable, as it is the only way OpenCoin will be able to financially capitalize all their sunk costs to pay back investors.
Yes, obviously they will sell them off, and everybody knows it. This will be discounted in the price the market is willing to pay for them. or result in failure. |
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anti-scam
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May 11, 2013, 07:35:57 PM |
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or result in failure.
It will certainly hurt their early adopter shills who think that they're going to get rich off of the small fraction of XRP that they've begged for. |
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mmeijeri
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May 11, 2013, 07:36:24 PM |
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its also an incentive for them to anything possible to increase the value. even lying.
That will only be an option as long as the source is closed. As long as that is the case, buying XRP will be a considerably riskier investment than afterwards. Let the buyer beware. or result in failure.
Yes, and the same could happen to Bitcoin too, if everybody were to hoard it. It's not in our interest to do so, just as it isn't in OpenCoin's interest to do so. |
ROI is not a verb, the term you're looking for is 'to break even'.
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misterbigg
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May 11, 2013, 07:36:45 PM |
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is a trust based system the right way to go in redefining the global transaction system? Yes. Think about what happens when you buy Bitcoins. You deposit money into MtGox, and you receive "MtGox USD IOUs". Which really means that they have your money and all you have is an entry in a database. Now you buy some Bitcoins on MtGox. You aren't receiving Bitcoins, you are getting "MtGox BTC IOUs". Still, all you have is an entry in a database. Only when you withdraw your Bitcoins, or wire the U.S. dollars, from MtGox do you get back something which is not an IOU (although some might call the USD an IOU). Ripple works exactly the same way. The difference is that when you deposit your money into a gateway, you have control over those IOUs. You can send them to other people, hold them, or exchange them for other IOUs (or XRPs). With Ripple you first extend trust to a gateway (this is like depositing money at MtGox). Then, you can withdraw those funds as IOUs into the Ripple network and use them to perform transactions in a decentralized way. It's a great system. |
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anti-scam
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May 11, 2013, 07:42:13 PM |
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Yes. Think about what happens when you buy Bitcoins. You deposit money into MtGox, and you receive "MtGox USD IOUs". Which really means that they have your money and all you have is an entry in a database. Now you buy some Bitcoins on MtGox. You aren't receiving Bitcoins, you are getting "MtGox BTC IOUs". Still, all you have is an entry in a database. Only when you withdraw your Bitcoins, or wire the U.S. dollars, from MtGox do you get back something which is not an IOU (although some might call the USD an IOU).
Ripple works exactly the same way. The difference is that when you deposit your money into a gateway, you have control over those IOUs. You can send them to other people, hold them, or exchange them for other IOUs (or XRPs).
With Ripple you first extend trust to a gateway (this is like depositing money at MtGox). Then, you can withdraw those funds as IOUs into the Ripple network and use them to perform transactions in a decentralized way. It's a great system.
It'd be a better system without having to beg for a centralized pump-and-dump currency to use it, don't you think? |
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misterbigg
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May 11, 2013, 07:46:24 PM |
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It'd be a better system without having to beg for a centralized pump-and-dump currency to use it, don't you think? I prefer OpenCoin's current model because this way they can make money. Anyway, I'm unfortunately going to have to put you on ignore because you do not add any signal whatsoever to the noise. |
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mmeijeri
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May 11, 2013, 07:46:50 PM |
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It's a great system.
It's a great system for using fiat money and for transitioning to crypto. But a crypto currency that doesn't need trust is even better. And of course, Ripple will help us get there. |
ROI is not a verb, the term you're looking for is 'to break even'.
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anti-scam
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May 11, 2013, 07:53:16 PM |
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It'd be a better system without having to beg for a centralized pump-and-dump currency to use it, don't you think? I prefer OpenCoin's current model because this way they can make money. Anyway, I'm unfortunately going to have to put you on ignore because you do not add any signal whatsoever to the noise. "I prefer SolidCoin's model because this way RealSolid can make money." That is how Ripple supporters sound. Think about it. For years in the cryptocurrency community, "pre-mine" was a dirty word. Now a 100% pre-mined currency comes along and we have dozens of people advocating for us to accept it and even calling a "Bitcoin killer"? If that's not shilling then I don't know what is. People are getting paid off and misterbigg is apparently one of them. If I make a 100% pre-mined anticoin, will people support me if I promise to give it all away and use it to help develop the network? |
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ab8989
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FUTURE OF CRYPTO IS HERE!
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May 11, 2013, 07:55:19 PM |
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It's a great system for using fiat money and for transitioning to crypto. But crypto currency that doesn't need trust is even better. And of course, Ripple will help us get there.
I think you are hung to the crypto issue as that is about the only thing common with ripple and bitcoin. I happen to think that the crypto issue is just a small implementation detail that does not matter much in the big picture. If Visa or Mastercard replace their internal network between the ATM nodes with some protocol that has crypto-properties it would change absolutely nothing and also if it would be possible to invent some bitcoin-like money without crypto, I could be totally open to such a proposal. |
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cypherdoc
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May 11, 2013, 07:56:30 PM |
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If I make a 100% pre-mined anticoin, will people support me if I promise to give it all away and use it to help develop the network?
you would be being too generous. OpenCoin won't even give away all of the XRP; they're holding back 50% to dump when the price is right and when lemmings would be least aware. |
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misterbigg
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May 11, 2013, 07:57:11 PM |
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But a crypto currency that doesn't need trust is even better. It is impossible to remove trust requirements from all types of transactions. For example, ordering a product online. What if they don't ship? Crypto-currncies do a great job of reducing the amount of trust that we need but I don't think it can be eliminated completely. For example, there's no way to trade with leverage on Ripple. In fact in the Ripple wiki they give plenty of reasons why an off-ledger exchange can be superior to Ripple's built in exchange. |
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cypherdoc
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May 11, 2013, 07:59:23 PM |
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But a crypto currency that doesn't need trust is even better. It is impossible to remove trust requirements from all types of transactions. For example, ordering a product online. What if they don't ship? Crypto-currncies do a great job of reducing the amount of trust that we need but I don't think it can be eliminated completely. For example, there's no way to trade with leverage on Ripple. In fact in the Ripple wiki they give plenty of reasons why an off-ledger exchange can be superior to Ripple's built in exchange. just who would be these mysterious gateways that i can trust? |
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