Why Ripple™ is against everything Bitcoin

[misterbigg]

Mrbigg: what do you plan to do with your Ripples?

I would like to hold them for as long as possible, only liquidating them a little bit at a time to pay for expenses. Ideally a gateway will offer some sort of checking account where I can deposit my XRP and spend them using regular checks, a debit card, and ACH payments the way I spend my dollars now.

I'd also like this for my Bitcoins - I want to hold all my savings in cryptocurrencies only, converting them into US Dollars milliseconds before I spend it at traditional places like the gas station, grocery store, or rent. This is what Ripple promises to do eventually.

my argument is that their only way to make a killing (10x-100x) which their investors demand is to create a system that naturally causes XRP to rise in value.  there is huge potential to create economic distortions using this model.

XRPs will rise in value because they do useful things in the Ripple system. I don't see how providing utility leads to economic distortions. Bitcoin has huge potential to create economic distortions - of the good kind!

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[smoothie]

This reminds me of RealSolid and his closed sourced solid coin and microcash that promised the source and it never really materialized.

Anyone that has to lie by saying something is decentralized and isn't is scum.

Misterbigg and the other ripple kool-aid drinkers have no facts to base their claimed on. All they can say is to look at the FAQs or say that the devs seem knowledgeable. Trusting humans has counter party risk. You guys may as well invest in the Dow or us bonds.

[smoothie]

Mrbigg: what do you plan to do with your Ripples?

I would like to hold them for as long as possible, only liquidating them a little bit at a time to pay for expenses. Ideally a gateway will offer some sort of checking account where I can deposit my XRP and spend them using regular checks, a debit card, and ACH payments the way I spend my dollars now.

I'd also like this for my Bitcoins - I want to hold all my savings in cryptocurrencies only, converting them into US Dollars milliseconds before I spend it at traditional places like the gas station, grocery store, or rent. This is what Ripple promises to do eventually.

my argument is that their only way to make a killing (10x-100x) which their investors demand is to create a system that naturally causes XRP to rise in value.  there is huge potential to create economic distortions using this model.

XRPs will rise in value because they do useful things in the Ripple system. I don't see how providing utility leads to economic distortions. Bitcoin has huge potential to create economic distortions - of the good kind!

Promises. Lol

Pirateat40 promised 7% weekly returns.

BFL promised to ship many months ago. Along with other broken promises.

Ripple is now making promises supposedly according to mister bigg. Isn't ripple based on IOUs?

Doesn't the government do the same thing through bonds?

I got to first hand listen to Chris yesterday and he was not very convincing in his explaination of ripple and its intentions.

[nelisky]

This reminds me of RealSolid and his closed sourced solid coin and microcash that promised the source and it never really materialized.

Anyone that has to lie by saying something is decentralized and isn't is scum.

Misterbigg and the other ripple kool-aid drinkers have no facts to base their claimed on. All they can say is to look at the FAQs or say that the devs seem knowledgeable. Trusting humans has counter party risk. You guys may as well invest in the Dow or us bonds.

You know, I was only explained the kool-aid reference a few months ago

Now, as the one saying 'devs seem knowledgeable' I feel the need to disclose I have the source, am running a node and am a coder myself by trade, thus I don't think 'devs seem knowledgeable', I know they are. And refusing to accept the opinion of others while at the same time refusing to pursue proof of your own opinion seems to fit pretty well with your kool-aid drinking theory. I have insider information, you hold the cool beverage can :p

But seriously, you are becoming a bit radical when you put everyone that doesn't share your view in the same basket. I do value your opinions and I love a good argument, but your are simply trolling now.

[cypherdoc]

Mrbigg: what do you plan to do with your Ripples?

I would like to hold them for as long as possible, only liquidating them a little bit at a time to pay for expenses. Ideally a gateway will offer some sort of checking account where I can deposit my XRP and spend them using regular checks, a debit card, and ACH payments the way I spend my dollars now.

I'd also like this for my Bitcoins - I want to hold all my savings in cryptocurrencies only, converting them into US Dollars milliseconds before I spend it at traditional places like the gas station, grocery store, or rent. This is what Ripple promises to do eventually.

my argument is that their only way to make a killing (10x-100x) which their investors demand is to create a system that naturally causes XRP to rise in value.  there is huge potential to create economic distortions using this model.

XRPs will rise in value because they do useful things in the Ripple system. I don't see how providing utility leads to economic distortions. Bitcoin has huge potential to create economic distortions - of the good kind!

Mr. B, didn't you say gateways needed to be banks in order to provide KYC, licenses, and liquidity?

what possible motivation would banks have to participate?  what economic pressure can Ripple possibly exert at this stage to make that happen?  i say zero and that they won't.

i think that OpenCoin realizes this too as i now hear they are letting any 'ol yahoo become a gateway now out of what seems like desperation to get bootstrapped.  this will fail miserably as inevitably these types of small gateways will fail or become scams.

the critical thing to realize is that any system, including Bitcoin, cannot afford to stumble.  fortunately, the devs and miners saw this critical fact when we had the hard fork from 0.7 to 0.8 and they scrambled to prevent anyone from losing a penny.

under Ripple, i keep hearing you guys say that if trust is betrayed by a gateway, its ok, they will no longer be trusted.  but i say, at what cost?  all it will take is for a couple, if not one, gateway to fail and lose alot of ppl money for the system to implode.  and when you're dealing with a bunch of IOU's w/o a central bank to bail out bad debt (IOU's) you are looking at a system primed to fail.

[mmeijeri]

It seems pretty likely the Hawala network will try to make use of the Ripple network.

[cypherdoc]

It seems pretty likely the Hawala network will try to make use of the Ripple network.

please provide a factual argument why you make this assertion.

[Rampion]

Mrbigg: what do you plan to do with your Ripples?

I would like to hold them for as long as possible, only liquidating them a little bit at a time to pay for expenses. Ideally a gateway will offer some sort of checking account where I can deposit my XRP and spend them using regular checks, a debit card, and ACH payments the way I spend my dollars now.

I'd also like this for my Bitcoins - I want to hold all my savings in cryptocurrencies only, converting them into US Dollars milliseconds before I spend it at traditional places like the gas station, grocery store, or rent. This is what Ripple promises to do eventually.

my argument is that their only way to make a killing (10x-100x) which their investors demand is to create a system that naturally causes XRP to rise in value.  there is huge potential to create economic distortions using this model.

XRPs will rise in value because they do useful things in the Ripple system. I don't see how providing utility leads to economic distortions. Bitcoin has huge potential to create economic distortions - of the good kind!

Now $1 dollar buys you 50 Ripples.

The market cap is HIGHER than Bitcoin's one.

But what's the volume in USD on BTC/XRP Bitstamp? A fucking joke.

That's going to skyrocket. You can feel it. And there are people holding BILLIONS of that shit. It's simply stupid to play that game. They will dump them, they will crash the market, last ones in will be left holding the bag, and they will be set for their life.

This is the ultimate pump and dump scheme, pure speculation. You shouldn't have your savings on a currency for which a single entity holds the majority of it. T

[smoothie]

This reminds me of RealSolid and his closed sourced solid coin and microcash that promised the source and it never really materialized.

Anyone that has to lie by saying something is decentralized and isn't is scum.

Misterbigg and the other ripple kool-aid drinkers have no facts to base their claimed on. All they can say is to look at the FAQs or say that the devs seem knowledgeable. Trusting humans has counter party risk. You guys may as well invest in the Dow or us bonds.

You know, I was only explained the kool-aid reference a few months ago

Now, as the one saying 'devs seem knowledgeable' I feel the need to disclose I have the source, am running a node and am a coder myself by trade, thus I don't think 'devs seem knowledgeable', I know they are. And refusing to accept the opinion of others while at the same time refusing to pursue proof of your own opinion seems to fit pretty well with your kool-aid drinking theory. I have insider information, you hold the cool beverage can :p

But seriously, you are becoming a bit radical when you put everyone that doesn't share your view in the same basket. I do value your opinions and I love a good argument, but your are simply trolling now.

Insider information. Lol reminds me of walstreet crooks.

You have not proven anything. The burden of proof that ripple is open sourced is on you not me. I merely am challenging the claims made by ripple as well as you.

Let's assume you have the source code. Why not post it publicly then? I will review it myself if you do that.

Lets see if you can escape the grips of the devs of ripple in my request.

Truly if you believe ripple should be open sourced you will do this.

I've been called a troll on this forum 1000's of times for merely speaking the truth or calling out other people's bullshit. I am calling out OpenCoin's bullshit.

[nelisky]

Insider information. Lol reminds me of walstreet crooks.

You have not proven anything. The burden of proof that ripple is open sourced is on you not me. I merely am challenging the claims made by ripple as well as you.

The burden of proof of what exactly? I'm not in a quest for a higher good. You must have misunderstood me, I don't give a crap what others think, never did, I just try to help where I can, and that is what I have been trying to do here. I did not make any claims (feel free to prove me wrong if I did, it was never my intention).

Let's assume you have the source code. Why not post it publicly then? I will review it myself if you do that.

Why should I post it? And why should I trust you to be able to review it if you can't even shoot the ripple dudes an email requesting access before crying scam?

Lets see if you can escape the grips of the devs of ripple in my request.

Truly if you believe ripple should be open sourced you will do this.

I've been called a troll on this forum 1000's of times for merely speaking the truth or calling out other people's bullshit. I am calling out OpenCoin's bullshit.

I know ripple will be open sourced, it will not survive otherwise. I am also telling the truth, I really don't care if you troll, speak truth, eat with your feet or even worst, use windows as your primary OS. Really, I don't think less of you for that.

What bugs me a bit is that you are not processing the information passed on to you, instead just replying "oh yeah? and your mother!" which is not the best line of argument I've seen from you, to be honest.

Let me make this as clear as possible... I'm not trying to change your opinion, I have nothing to gain from that and I might even have something to lose as I need all flaws and issues of Ripple (and Bitcoin for that matter) to be as public as possible lest my investments on both are in peril. I was just offering some insight but you mistaken me for a Ripple zealot. I am not, and I'd love to be shown you are not an anti-Ripple zealot, but you are doing a great job proving otherwise.

This is becoming personal, not really the type of argument I enjoy the most unfortunately.

[mmeijeri]

please provide a factual argument why you make this assertion.

It is based on the same principle of making use of a trust graph and could benefit from the added reliability and security of a P2P cryptographic accounting system like Ripple. Hawala already makes use of the banking system.

[smoothie]

Insider information. Lol reminds me of walstreet crooks.

You have not proven anything. The burden of proof that ripple is open sourced is on you not me. I merely am challenging the claims made by ripple as well as you.

The burden of proof of what exactly? I'm not in a quest for a higher good. You must have misunderstood me, I don't give a crap what others think, never did, I just try to help where I can, and that is what I have been trying to do here. I did not make any claims (feel free to prove me wrong if I did, it was never my intention).

Let's assume you have the source code. Why not post it publicly then? I will review it myself if you do that.

Why should I post it? And why should I trust you to be able to review it if you can't even shoot the ripple dudes an email requesting access before crying scam?

Lets see if you can escape the grips of the devs of ripple in my request.

Truly if you believe ripple should be open sourced you will do this.

I've been called a troll on this forum 1000's of times for merely speaking the truth or calling out other people's bullshit. I am calling out OpenCoin's bullshit.

I know ripple will be open sourced, it will not survive otherwise. I am also telling the truth, I really don't care if you troll, speak truth, eat with your feet or even worst, use windows as your primary OS. Really, I don't think less of you for that.

What bugs me a bit is that you are not processing the information passed on to you, instead just replying "oh yeah? and your mother!" which is not the best line of argument I've seen from you, to be honest.

Let me make this as clear as possible... I'm not trying to change your opinion, I have nothing to gain from that and I might even have something to lose as I need all flaws and issues of Ripple (and Bitcoin for that matter) to be as public as possible lest my investments on both are in peril. I was just offering some insight but you mistaken me for a Ripple zealot. I am not, and I'd love to be shown you are not an anti-Ripple zealot, but you are doing a great job proving otherwise.

This is becoming personal, not really the type of argument I enjoy the most unfortunately.

Wow your responses above are filled with emotion. Looks like I struck a nerve in the emotion you have with your ripple investment?

Just as I thought you won't post the code. Okay now I know where you stand lol.

[cypherdoc]

please provide a factual argument why you make this assertion.

It is based on the same principle of making use of a trust graph and could benefit from the added reliability and security of a P2P cryptographic accounting system like Ripple. Hawala already makes use of the banking system.

as i suspected, you're just guessing.

[mmeijeri]

as i suspected, you're just guessing.

No, not just guessing, I just gave you a rational argument. I didn't claim it was a certainty though, hence "seems" and "pretty likely", not "certainly". Do you disagree it is likely? If so, what makes you say so?

[misterbigg]

Promises. Lol
Pirateat40 promised 7% weekly returns.
BFL promised to ship many months ago. Along with other broken promises.
Ripple is now making promises supposedly according to mister bigg. Isn't ripple based on IOUs?
Doesn't the government do the same thing through bonds?

You accept a promise whenever you deposit money at MtGox, or any other exchange. A Ripple gateway is no different.

If you don't see this then you're not arguing in good faith.

[smoothie]

I should have known better that Mr. b would delete my post below from his moderated thread. Lol censorship gotta love it.

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Without the source all your claims above are heresay. No proof just talk.

The trick is getting people to accept your IOUs

Simply that. Debt backed system will fail.

What if someone doesn't pay? Or dies? There is counterparty risk.

[cypherdoc]

as i suspected, you're just guessing.

No, not just guessing, I just gave you a rational argument. I didn't claim it was a certainty though, hence "seems" and "pretty likely", not "certainly". Do you disagree it is likely? If so, what makes you say so?

b/c you have no real functioning network?

[misterbigg]

I should have known better that Mr. b would delete my post below from his moderated thread. Lol censorship gotta love it.

Nope, not censorship just keeping the thread orderly. You correctly pointed out that the source to the server is not currently available so I replied with the list of known facts, one of which is that the source code is not available just yet.

[mmeijeri]

b/c you have no real functioning network?

The Ripple network already functions, even though it is small and in beta and hawaladars can already make use of it if they want to. Once the code is released they can run additional validators if they want to, and probably as Tor hidden services if necessary.

[cypherdoc]

b/c you have no real functioning network?

The Ripple network already functions, even though it is small and in beta and hawaladars can already make use of it if they want to. Once the code is released they can run additional validators if they want to, and probably as Tor hidden services if necessary.

why would a validator validate if they're not getting paid?  Joel says altruism.  i say no, Ripple won't be able to depend on that.  this is why Bitcoin pays miners, which is essentially validating.

if gateways then act as validators then how can they hide behind Tor?  Mr. B said that gateways would have to be banks or an institution that runs KYC and has valid licensing.