New Poker Brand for BTC

[eking657]

Hello BTCJack. Thank you for putting the time to answer some of our main concerns.

[denis72]

newpoker is the game which is accepted and receiving the bitcoins.this has no registration fees,we have to login with valid mail id and passward.in internet world we can see number of sites like poker site.it is addiction for some people,so they are wasting their money that game makes more excitement to  them.this is slow poison.if we get money that fine otherwise its very bad.

[william498]

I would like to see a poker room with 1)a unique or at least a high-end software (regardless of it being web-based or a downloadable software), not the regular script that doesn't inspire much trust in the website, NitrogenSports Poker interface is better, and smoother than the free script most simple and less funded sites use.
ETH and BTC are the main currencies now, IMO having more than 2 coins would require converting the money to USD since you can't have 5-10 different rooms for different (blind) for each coin.

[eking657]

I would like to see a poker room with 1)a unique or at least a high-end software (regardless of it being web-based or a downloadable software), not the regular script that doesn't inspire much trust in the website, NitrogenSports Poker interface is better, and smoother than the free script most simple and less funded sites use.
ETH and BTC are the main currencies now, IMO having more than 2 coins would require converting the money to USD since you can't have 5-10 different rooms for different (blind) for each coin.

Thank you for sharing your opinion with us.
We are currently building a new downloadable software for poker that will look and feel similar to some of the bigger well known poker rooms online.

[game-protect]

All the Bitcoin only (No Fiat money) poker sites have a very low traffic as you can see on www.pokerscout.com

So if you want to introduce another Bitcoin poker site, please tell how you plan to reach a sustainable number of players?

[eking657]

All the Bitcoin only (No Fiat money) poker sites have a very low traffic as you can see on www.pokerscout.com

So if you want to introduce another Bitcoin poker site, please tell how you plan to reach a sustainable number of players?

Very good question! Going into this project, that was one of the first things I dedicated a week of research into. Why are there no reasonably sized BTC/CRYPTO only poker brands with atleast a decent amount of players.

I can not answer that question with precision, but the first thing that really is apparent is the low quality software and branding of most of these poker brands. Most are only web based and look absolutely horrible. And in my opinion, the look and feel of the poker client is just as important as customer support. Players invest time and money playing poker, a feeling of security in most of these sites are definately missing.

The second point ive noticed is the lack of general poker knowledge most of these brands have. Poker players are accustomed to almost 20 years of online poker - GTD tournaments, freerolls, qualifiers, special games like zoom poker, spin and go etc are not part of these btc brands.

Last but not least - marketing!!!
I have been an online marketer for over 8 years, I have owned several brands (in other verticals) and even an affiliate network. It seems to me that most of these brands are actually a 2 man operation with a max of $10,000 in funds to get rolling. BTC or not, it takes way more than that!

My angle - I have a unique angle on this poker room, it will introduce something new t "new poker players" that have never deposited before. Tis idea has not yet been done and from several tests we have done it looks like it may pick up.

Which brings me to my original post - I can have all the answers in my head, but in the end of the day, bitcoin users KNOW what they want and what they are looking for. I think  its good to engage early on. That way, I can build this thing way better.

[notserp]

i say the the thing thats killing the games on the btc site are the bum hunting HU players, theres not enough players to have HU tables the sites should get rid of them. also rake needs to be low like 2 or 3% max with a good rack back program and please dont make freeroll tournys as promos for playing do a high hand promo or badbeat jackpot.

[eking657]

i say the the thing thats killing the games on the btc site are the bum hunting HU players, theres not enough players to have HU tables the sites should get rid of them. also rake needs to be low like 2 or 3% max with a good rack back program and please dont make freeroll tournys as promos for playing do a high hand promo or badbeat jackpot.

Thanks. Good point.

[FrueGreads]

Hello eking657, I really like poker so here is some of my input:

Deposit and Withdrawal Time?
I know this is important for bitcoin users, but I know that in poker the withdrawals sometimes need to take some extra time, so I don't mind waiting 3 business days for a withdrawal, and I think it's normal. Of course the faster the better. As for deposit I like them fast, so maybe after one confirmation the coins should be available.

Minimum Dep and Withdrawal?
Not a highroller here, so they should be small (maybe 1 or 2mBTC), or the equivalent to $5.

Rakeback?
Not a highroller like I said, so I prefer other promotions, like freerolls.

Licenses for your region?
Well I guess that is up to you, if you want to risk it or not. I just want to be able to play poker.

Customer support? Language? Live-Chat
I like live-chat. Just English is fine, but multi language is always appreciated.

What currency to host the games in?
Multicurrency is good, or at least some in game currency. Bitcoin price is always floating, so that would help.

Freerolls?
Yes please, I really like to try to build a bankroll from freerolls, and satellites t big torns.

Free money to sign up?
It helps, but not important, as long as you have freerolls.

Rake percentage?
Like I said I don't really care about this, so any normal % is fine by me.

[marlboroza]

Deposit - after 1 confirmation
Withdrawal Time - ASAP
Minimum Dep and Withdrawal - 10$?
Rakeback - yes
Licenses for your region - yes
Customer support - yes
Language - english
Live-Chat - no
What currency to host the games in - bitcoin
Freerolls - yes
Free money to sign up - yes

[eking657]

Hello eking657, I really like poker so here is some of my input:

Deposit and Withdrawal Time?
I know this is important for bitcoin users, but I know that in poker the withdrawals sometimes need to take some extra time, so I don't mind waiting 3 business days for a withdrawal, and I think it's normal. Of course the faster the better. As for deposit I like them fast, so maybe after one confirmation the coins should be available.

Minimum Dep and Withdrawal?
Not a highroller here, so they should be small (maybe 1 or 2mBTC), or the equivalent to $5.

Rakeback?
Not a highroller like I said, so I prefer other promotions, like freerolls.

Licenses for your region?
Well I guess that is up to you, if you want to risk it or not. I just want to be able to play poker.

Customer support? Language? Live-Chat
I like live-chat. Just English is fine, but multi language is always appreciated.

What currency to host the games in?
Multicurrency is good, or at least some in game currency. Bitcoin price is always floating, so that would help.

Freerolls?
Yes please, I really like to try to build a bankroll from freerolls, and satellites t big torns.

Free money to sign up?
It helps, but not important, as long as you have freerolls.

Rake percentage?
Like I said I don't really care about this, so any normal % is fine by me.

Thank you for your feedback.
We will have several freeroll options as well as exciting new games never seen before specifically targeting new players

[YodaYoda]

I'll answer from my own perspective, and having worked with online gambling and players for 15+ years.
Deposit and Withdrawal Time?  Immediate. The faster the better.
Minimum Dep and Withdrawal? Min should be somewhere around $10 or even lower. Hard with the bitcoin fees, but many players like to start out with micro-limits.
Rakeback?  Volume players like rake-back. 
Licenses for your region?  European players in particular want licensed operators. Why? Without skirting laws, gambling profits within EU are tax free.
Customer support? Language? Live-Chat.    Live chat and email is normally sufficient, especially for bitcoin based ops. If you have VIP programs, then those should have call-in options.
What currency to host the games in?   If you take bitcoins, then bitcoins should be the flavour. Maybe mBtc, as that is about 2x Euros and dollars, making the limits a bit more easy to translate for new bitcoin users.
Freerolls?  Tournaments are important; but I have seen rookie ops being to generous with their freerolls, they ended up having just freeroll whores.  You need to learn how to create a promotional funnel, as see that the users convert from free players to paying players. If not, rhen the freerolls will be for nothing. Good strategy is to do qualified freerolls; i.e. weekly new depositing user tournaments etc.
Free money to sign up?  It's peer-2-peer, if you give free money directly on signup, you can get people praying on that policy via chip dumping.
Rake percentage?  Keep it medium-low.

Based on your questions, it does sound like you are quite new to gambling. Please get yourself an expert to help you out. Your backend must have anti-collusion, anti-fraud when you do bitcoin and no kyc.  If the software is new, how have you done with testing? Can you handle 10000's of thousands of players? How many devs and time have you used on software and testing procedures? Remeber that gambling companies get severe hacking attacks all the time; there are groups of hackers that target new operations; even DDOS attacks if you don't know how to mitiage that.

Furthermore, critical mass issues are extremly important.  You touched on the rake-back, but you should have prop-player programs and other type of generous offers when building critical mass. When it comes to features, forget about doing SpeedPoker and stuff like that, it's still so fringe. Focus on launching first and foremost texas hold'em and just a few limits so you can keep the tables relatively full while building critical mass. Create a launch schedule of new features, limits, games (omaha, hi/lo, stud, speed etc.)  that is based on how many players you have, not to dilute players to much and hurt your own critical mass build-up.

If you wonder: yes, I have launched many operations before; it's my job for 17 years.  Rember you entering into something that is very complex. Easy on the surface, very complex under the hood. If you don't have awesome software engineers with 10-20 years experience in software and gambling software in particular, then consider getting it from a vendor instead.

An example: I saw many gambling companies in the early 2000's when poker started to grow that said 'We will build our own poker! We will be rich'.  I saw maybe 20 companies that hired their own software teams, and all said 'we launch in 2-3 months'. A year later, they had gone through 500-800k and still said 'in 2-3 months we launch'.  They never did. Fyi: I advised to them to not to develop, but acquire or lease.  Software is very complex, and Poker is a real time application, with many in's and out's; the speed required, logging etc make it that you need a very optimized solution. If you have any security holes, in gambling that is the kiss of death.
So, my advice is; get an expert adviser in that can help you. It will cost you a bit of money, but it will be worth it.

[eking657]

Hello and thank you so much for your insights. Indeed it seems you have a lot of knowledge in this vertical.

So just to make it clear, I am not building this software from scratch. Rather I am licencing a ready made poker software and am adding several elements and layers on it. Ontop of that, I am changing the design of the lobby and rooms. Both for download and mobile versions.

You have made some very interesting points and I will definitely take them into consideration.

As I mentioned on other posts, I actually have quite a bit of experience in building brands from the ground up, and have run some affiliate networks in the past. Never poker, but as a player, Ive seen them all (that's not to say that I know exactly what triggers new players to come and stick around).

I agree with you 100% regarding free money and overplaying freerolls. However, since we are dealing with bitcoins, I'm not so sure that we are talking about the same type of user, that's why I have asked the kind of questions that might sound quite obvious. I have noticed for example that bitcoin users are MUCH more sensitive to rake for example than normal users are.

Ive also noticed that most of the people ive spoken to within this community infact don't care too much about regulation, which I find odd as in real fiat currency the answer would be completely different.

Id be very interested talking to you more.
If youd like please send me your skype by mail here and ill add you.

[Junko]

Deposit and Withdrawal Time? Deposit - instant. Withdrawal - processed within 24 hrs.
Minimum Dep and Withdrawal? NO, especially no min withdrawal, at least not some ridiculously high min withdrawal.
Rakeback? YES, weighted, contributed, at least 27% or higher. Higher if you want to be competitive.
Licenses for your region? No
Customer support? Language? Live-Chat Yes, English
What currency to host the games in? Bitcoin or chips converted from Bitcoin
Freerolls? Don't care. Freerolls just attract non-depositors mostly, imo.
Free money to sign up? Don't care, especially if the play requirement to unlock funds is unreasonable.
Rake percentage? Low, especially for heads-up/ short handed tables

VIP/Loyalty Rewards Program - Yes

Fast withdrawals, a generous VIP/Loyalty Rewards program, good rakeback and excellent customer support are more important (to me, at least) than any amount of freerolls and/or deposit bonuses.

[milewilda]

free rolls are always nice and bring a lot of players.

Freerolls might bring in maybe 1 player for each 20 participants.

Rakeback would be far superior in enticing more players to join rather than essentially giving money away for 'promotions'. What you'll get is a lot of players only coming for the freerolls and/or collusion.

Freerolls would really be nothing compared on Rakebacks and as you said the ratio would really be like that when it comes to free rolls/free money. Its the most common thing that is being used as of now but it wont really be much more effective since people would really rather choose up rakebacks including me. Suggested things on earlier post are good there no need to repeat.

[eking657]

free rolls are always nice and bring a lot of players.

Freerolls might bring in maybe 1 player for each 20 participants.

Rakeback would be far superior in enticing more players to join rather than essentially giving money away for 'promotions'. What you'll get is a lot of players only coming for the freerolls and/or collusion.

Freerolls would really be nothing compared on Rakebacks and as you said the ratio would really be like that when it comes to free rolls/free money. Its the most common thing that is being used as of now but it wont really be much more effective since people would really rather choose up rakebacks including me. Suggested things on earlier post are good there no need to repeat.

Hi MileWilda.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Indeed I am working right on coding a rakeback system where players will be rewarded a percentage of rake according to the size of table they sit on. For example high stakes may receive 30% rakeback, mid-stake 25% all the way down to micro which might be 5-10%. that way we also reward the higher limit players.

In my view, freerolls are still good for almost any brand. It helps new players to get accustomed to playing and veteran players just to get a feeling for the vibe of the software.

[Junko]

free rolls are always nice and bring a lot of players.

Freerolls might bring in maybe 1 player for each 20 participants.

Rakeback would be far superior in enticing more players to join rather than essentially giving money away for 'promotions'. What you'll get is a lot of players only coming for the freerolls and/or collusion.

Freerolls would really be nothing compared on Rakebacks and as you said the ratio would really be like that when it comes to free rolls/free money. Its the most common thing that is being used as of now but it wont really be much more effective since people would really rather choose up rakebacks including me. Suggested things on earlier post are good there no need to repeat.

Hi MileWilda.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Indeed I am working right on coding a rakeback system where players will be rewarded a percentage of rake according to the size of table they sit on. For example high stakes may receive 30% rakeback, mid-stake 25% all the way down to micro which might be 5-10%. that way we also reward the higher limit players.

In my view, freerolls are still good for almost any brand. It helps new players to get accustomed to playing and veteran players just to get a feeling for the vibe of the software.

If that rakeback system is part of some earned rewards program in which the various rake percentages are in addition to a base standard rakeback % that every player gets no matter what stakes they play, then maybe.

But if that rakeback schedule is what you plan as the base rakeback for all players - i.e. according to the stakes they play, then you will never get any mid, low, or micro stakes players as they will play at other sites where they will get better rakeback obviously. All you will get is high stakes players who are ok with just 30% rakeback, not including any additional effective rakeback from VIP/Loyalty rewards if any. Which is fine if that is the only players you are looking for. It certainly won't include any freeroll players, that's for sure. I guess you'd also get clueless players who don't even know what rakeback is and who wouldn't know any better anyways.

[adaseb]

Hello forum members.

I am currently under development of a new software for a poker room. We are looking to launch our brand probably within the first 2 weeks of this upcoming September. Needless to say, the poker room will be completely bitcoin based, and our mission is to grow and give out white-labels to potential partners. We are working extremely hard, to get a unique angle to this poker room.
However, before launching, I was wondering what players on bitcointalk think about BTC poker sites.
If any of you can give me your take on it. What are YOU looking for in a BTC poker room.

Deposit and Withdrawal Time?
Minimum Dep and Withdrawal?
Rakeback?
Licenses for your region?
Customer support? Language? Live-Chat
What currency to host the games in?
Freerolls?
Free money to sign up?
Rake percentage?

These are some serious concerns I would like to address, as I am sure that some or perhaps ALL of these questions have either stopped you from registering or have left you with little faith to deposit.

The more information I get from you guys the better I can build this thing!
PS - Please give reasonable answers. Obviously no one would expect to receive 1BTC no deposit and withdraw auto. So keep it REAL and perhaps our new brand will be the next PokerStars of Bitcoin!

Thank you in Advance.

I agree with what you are trying to do here by getting input before launch however I think the only important factor is start-up capital.

Programming and developement these days is very cheap compared to the required capital needed to run a gambling site.

I think unless you got at least >25BTC available for gambling capital then the rest shouldn't be attempted.

Reason being you might have a bad week and one whale can take the entire sites BTC wallet and what happens then? Everybody who deposited will get nothing.

[tortic25]

Deposit and Withdrawal Time?   2-3 days is fine with me
Minimum Dep and Withdrawal? there should be no min deposit... but with 100k fee i don't see people doing less then 0.01
Rakeback?     i don't really worry about the rake back id pref 40% of all rake turned into player tier freerolls
Licenses for your region? never matters rooms with them has scammed before.
Customer support? Language? Live-Chat      this is the key.... have nice support not ones who give a fake solution then closes chat.
What currency to host the games in?    id pref a currency 1btc=1,000,000 chips
Freerolls?
Free money to sign up? no... because you would need enough to cover all of the players and when there's free money  you get 10x the amount how ever much it is i wouldn't trust you had the funds to cover this without proof of your btc holdings.

Rake percentage? 5%


Now for my opinions...
when btc started blowing up there was like 10btc poker rooms "atleast"

swc
betcoin
infiniti
nitrogen
pokerdominico
pocketrockets
satoshipoker
and 2 others that i can't remember
one had a nice vs ai system.


And now swc is dead and betcoin is shit.
I wish i supported some of the other options.

That will be your biggest problem noone wants to play a site with low traffic... so you're gonna have to have an amazing launch....

If your software is good start in ico so you will have good promotions running until the traffic goes from low to med

don't waste funds for no deposit... 90% of people getting this will lose it within 5mins and never play there again.

I think these will get the most traffic for you.
Leagues... freerolls with no prize but ladders every week the top 10players win 0.01btc each

faucet 1k chips per 60mins (10k sat)

For the faucet or any no deposit offers it would be important to add brm feature...
Players can only enter with 5%-10% of there bankroll (Which can be disabled when they reach a higher tier)
this insures they don't play 5mins lose and quit... which will generate more rake plus keep a higher amount of traffic.

I agree with what you are trying to do here by getting input before launch however I think the only important factor is start-up capital.

Programming and developement these days is very cheap compared to the required capital needed to run a gambling site.

I think unless you got at least >25BTC available for gambling capital then the rest shouldn't be attempted.

Reason being you might have a bad week and one whale can take the entire sites BTC wallet and what happens then? Everybody who deposited will get nothing.
[/quote]

That's why there's a rake "fee" if a whale cleans everyone the site doesn't go broke unless...... the owner runs promotions he can't cover

[Reid]

All the Bitcoin only (No Fiat money) poker sites have a very low traffic as you can see on www.pokerscout.com

So if you want to introduce another Bitcoin poker site, please tell how you plan to reach a sustainable number of players?

Very good question! Going into this project, that was one of the first things I dedicated a week of research into. Why are there no reasonably sized BTC/CRYPTO only poker brands with atleast a decent amount of players.

I can not answer that question with precision, but the first thing that really is apparent is the low quality software and branding of most of these poker brands. Most are only web based and look absolutely horrible. And in my opinion, the look and feel of the poker client is just as important as customer support. Players invest time and money playing poker, a feeling of security in most of these sites are definately missing.

The second point ive noticed is the lack of general poker knowledge most of these brands have. Poker players are accustomed to almost 20 years of online poker - GTD tournaments, freerolls, qualifiers, special games like zoom poker, spin and go etc are not part of these btc brands.

Last but not least - marketing!!!
I have been an online marketer for over 8 years, I have owned several brands (in other verticals) and even an affiliate network. It seems to me that most of these brands are actually a 2 man operation with a max of $10,000 in funds to get rolling. BTC or not, it takes way more than that!

My angle - I have a unique angle on this poker room, it will introduce something new t "new poker players" that have never deposited before. Tis idea has not yet been done and from several tests we have done it looks like it may pick up.

Which brings me to my original post - I can have all the answers in my head, but in the end of the day, bitcoin users KNOW what they want and what they are looking for. I think  its good to engage early on. That way, I can build this thing way better.

It seems like you are really experienced with this kind of things.
I mean, you are already making a pre-marketing strategy by asking the users of what a poker site should be.
I dont have much ideas about this. I just rely on the one's who created it and play the game and see the errors within while playing.
But we wont see it while it is not yet out.
I guess I will just be reading here to see the next things that will happen.
A good promotion now, you are already making users think it will be a good poker site because of this.